[000:00:00;00] uh, on a, and our former employees of the security service are such khodakovsky, who made public and they are very many places, it is all described about the fact that uh, in russia now, there is a real uh, a huge projectile goal, ammunition is simply uh, in fact, they are not even issued in those units that have to advance or implement some small tactical operators, that is, in fact, all of this is directed only to accumulate at least some amount of ammunition for a possible counteraction to our future contrast, because what is happening in bakhmut, you already know residual phenomena when it simply cannot be stopped. they er have either according to the version on some line or er russia has to completely

retreat er er can not retreat because i have already repeatedly emphasized about the capture of this city and really there will only be battles well, they can continue house after house, house after house, it can continue indefinitely, it all depends only on one case, when the front will be broken in other places and they will be forced to call their stormtroopers from uh to close these or other programs. i think that bakhmut is just that the pit into which you drove yourself , they threw it . they can’t retreat, they can’t announce the victory, they also can’t and are forced to throw new, new, e-e detachments

of assault brigades into that pride of this war. and in this case , you understand when you attack and you don't have ordinary rifle units to do something incredible, the loss is going on, the loss of people , but they can't stop, there is an order - this is a centralized army, they are an authoritarian army the state has an order to the center, they carry it out, thank you, thank you, mr. viktoreg, well, viktor yagun, a military public figure , major general of the sbu, and the former deputy head of the security service of ukraine, and we will now move to the west to the united states , we will talk about the euro-atlantic prospects of ukraine in we are in touch oleksandr motyli storik political scientist professor of the hungarian university of the united states greetings mr. oleksandr we welcome you congratulations thank you for the invitation thank you for agreeing i wanted to start this our conversation is based on the information that appeared recently before i leave, we ourselves there nato that

the country of central europe offers such a road map that institutionalized the approach of ukraine to the north atlantic union , you can replace the plan for membership, which now turned out to be no longer necessary, because in finland joined nato without any plan for membership, it is already clear that the procedure has been changed , that now there is an application for membership that has never been in nato before, and since now ukraine has essentially submitted this application and over is not going to accept it now, they offered this road map and then it became known that the united states, germany, hungary are against such a road map, you understand why i can only guess to blur, well, as for hungary, it is all clear because they are generally against the expansion of nato to some extent, germany also understood because they have always treated a certain like that with a certain devotion to russia. america is a bit more difficult to officially explain, how do you know

it is that it is premature, it is necessary to win, and then we will talk about it further, it seems to me that it is probably it is plausible, i am especially excited because america still supports ukraine very much, provides ukraine with various weapons, i will take weapons from the other side, as you can see , i hesitate, it would be better if the americans usually expressed their support. why the danger can be, we really understand that with hungary they basically have such a position, germany is also not always on our side, but the united states of america in this case expresses its position in an absolutely incomprehensible way, because when the ex-president of the united states

white clinton says that he regrets, regrets and apologizes for the fact that he forced us to sign the budapest memorandum to give up nuclear weapons, and here the usa says no, we do not even allow you to create a road map in order for you to become a member of nato in the future. me too i don't fully understand it i guess again i read what the americans said and the optimistic interpretation is that they are temporary at this point we don't necessarily want to do that we are willing to wait so let there be a victory, and besides, there is a certain logic here, because in the end, the most important thing in ukraine now is to win, but i agree with you, it is somehow a little illogical, the americans should , well, in the best case, they should be neutral and say well, let's see how it all

turns out, and not to express my dissatisfaction. so, i share your concern here , not too much. however, not too much, because it personally seems to me that the most important thing is america's further support for ukraine, but america supports ukraine, provides some kind of weapons judged readiness to provide even more financial and armed aid. so this is the most important thing, but oleksandr, in principle, i wonder if it is even possible for ukraine to win without euro-atlantic integration, because in this situation, any victory is just such a pause before a new reminder, do you understand if in ukraine, it would be possible to launch a counteroffensive and expel the russians , well, at least from the south and reach, let's say

, the border with crimea. this would already be a significant victory. some kind of agreement will be signed sooner or later russia would use it to arm itself again and possibly attack ukraine again , but it all also depends on whether putin himself will remain in power in my opinion well, i am here of course this is some kind of original opinion, but in my opinion putin's main fact here is that as long as he remains in power , then there will be a possibility of further further attacks by russia if he is removed . of course, i hope for russia, and not only i hope, i also have solid reasons not to hope that it will be removed sooner rather than later, if it is not

sold, that he will leave power simply for physical reasons, so to speak, but until now, as you know, this has not happened yet, but i have reasons to believe that this can happen, of course, a lot, if not everything depends on whether the ukrainian counteroffensive will be successful , if not, then he will remain in power. if so , then it is very possible that he will not stay, so we hope that the counteroffensive will be successful , what is the relationship between with putin's counter-offensive and power, the russians were already losing significant conquered territories before our eyes, at least kherson, yes, this is the only regional center that you did not seize for this war there with putin's government, simply nothing happened , he did not notice anything, peskov said we will return everything and they moved on well, again, if we assume that different analysts i mean different, even by the way

, different russian analysts who confirm that i have different reasons to believe that there are already big disagreements among the russian elites what among general and among the fsb well, of course, there are disagreements among the democrats and among certain oligarchs . of course, they would like to settle the offensive of others, they would like to somehow end it in a peaceful way, if possible, and if some kind of catastrophe occurs, then this could be some kind of reason for the fact that they took matters into their own hands and cleaned up to the very putin's ah and such a counteroffensive, if it is successful, it could be this

catastrophe and the reason for cleaning putin himself . of course, it will depend on what or on the definition of success. if the ukrainians succeed , the ukrainian armed forces will succeed in capturing, well, the entire southeast. maybe even crimea well, at least part of crimea , well, of course, it will be a very serious disaster and a huge blow to putin and his regime, if it happens, let's just say , they capture litopol or capture berdyansk, well, of course it will, but maybe in it would be such a big catastrophe if it were desired, well, it is difficult to say, in principle, everything is possible. i personally believe that at least on the basis of russian soviet history , even more so on the basis of comparative historical experience, it so often happens when

some wars are lost under dictators. and this would already be a sign after some kind of loss, it very often comes to the point that some rivals come to power, of course, this is the case. well, this can happen in the case of putin. well, of course, this does not have to be seen, but at least there is a chance and they would say so much more if there is a loss, if there is some kind of ukrainian victory in this counteroffensive. which they conditionally capture will still be released because in melitopol and crimea - this is our territory, it was captured by the russians, and we will de-occupy them , so release in relation to finland. let's let's talk after all, ukraine officially became the 31st member country of nato and according to an unprecedented procedure, what will this give us in the future, mr. oleksandr, will we be able

to become a member of the north atlantic alliance in the same way only by a political decision in essence? we will have to continue to listen about the reforms, compliance and so on, coffee, i am personally convinced that the ukrainian chances of becoming a member of nato are quite positive, quite large well, of course, not in this, not at this moment, for various reasons and for certain , other people have done things that are less convincing, but let's assume that it will be victory and i personally, like many ukrainians, convince russians that this will happen, let's assume that putin will leave power, rather this will happen later, and that there will be a defeat for russia, well, in such circumstances , ukraine will become a member of nato in principle relatively easy. well, of course there will be certain concerns about this or that, and of course there will be a problem with turkey and hungary. but it seems to me that most

countries will support the membership of ukraine, and the reasons are quite simple, because actually when you look at it what is happening now actually supports ukraine too much in its fight against russian aggression and in fact nato as nato and nato members as nato members they also fulfill the duties specified in the fifth article of the nato charter so here, in principle, nato is already protecting ukraine. as if he is a member of which it is even difficult to imagine how much more aid could be given to ukraine, and don't forget, in the very article of the fifth charter of nato, it is not written anywhere that military aid must mean that it is not written anywhere that countries must send

their soldiers to help a country, it all depends on individual countries, and in principle, in principle, this has already happened, so that to some extent ukraine is already de facto nato , so we just need to change this de facto status to de jure, but it is not so difficult here and it will of course depend on the victory because if there will be a victory, then ukraine has the strongest army in europe and it can really help nato, which of course will not happen, well, god forbid, the situation will be much more difficult and much more difficult. so i remain an optimist, despite the fact that the americans , germans, hungarians have now expressed some kind of warning but i think that these are temporary problems with hungary, of course, and the historical one may be more difficult. and you also have different levers here, and even more so if ukraine wins and ukraine wins. well, then

it will be difficult in hungary and turkey to say that they are not for him against nato against membership in nato and tell me that such sentiments can change in the event of a change of power in the white house, if the president becomes a republican, how will they treat the very idea of ​​nato and all this? republican well then, in principle, they could remain the same er, well, they would continue to support ukraine like this, maybe not with such enthusiasm as the democrats and jubaiten, but in principle they could and if by god they come to power up to 0.2 trump and people of this kind, of course he can turn it all into some kind of base on which in any case it is useful for ukraine

, his opponent trump will not be a republican, that is, which is quite a lot, even which now already in second place, although he made certain critical remarks about supporting ukraine. well, at least he is not stupid. let's just say that he is not a chaotic man. so i am all nadiya. well , first of all, i hope that the democrats will win regardless of who will be the republican candidate and i also have a high possibility that trump is not will be a candidate, don't forget. now the court case against trump has already started in new york city, it 's a little uncertain.

to some negative decision for trump so i am nadiya and i am a strong possibility in the great possibility that he will still be a candidate and the second thing is that many republicans already feel somehow uncomfortable with trump of course there is a road, they will love him to the very end but you are such a marginal element they are to some extent what started to express some kind of naming trump himself so that there is hope that even if he came to would be the republican candidate that he would lose against biden i personally think that is so, but well, this is just such a hope on my part. thank you, mr. alexander, on the air , this is alexander the macedonian political scientist , a professor at a hungarian university in the

united states, let's continue the foreign policy review and let's not talk now with maksym sokolov, but to journalists , a candidate of political sciences and the director of the center for middle eastern studies from veles . many say that macron hoped to make sure of this, to take a more active part in solving the ukrainian situation, to influence vladimir putin, but this call, at least publicly, said that he spoke and until now he has never once condemned russia, he has not called the war a war, he conditionally promised to talk to zelensky when the time comes for that, well, why do you think that it was possible to achieve something? after all, no, maksym well, of course , it was possible to achieve something, for example

macron went there not only to urge everyone to influence putin and to influence putin to stop the war, but also to answer a large delegation of businessmen, even michel zhara brought there and signed a lot of economic trade agreements with china, i.e. his he executed the french subpoena. and for example, airbus signed a large contract worth several billion euros , the production of airbus aircraft in china will double, that is , from macron's point of view, this is in principle. he presents it as a success, of course, it was not possible to convince everyone this is frankly a defeat for macron , but he himself is to blame for this, uh, because he did not demonstrate the unity of europe in relations with china. yes, mr. igor, i wonder if you saw what he said so much from the arms of macron. did he still

prove something? i had to listen to him and maybe. somewhere to convince russia well, i think that the macron of russia was basically consistent in his reasoning because he had previously talked about the importance of europe and trade with europe and called the relations between the united states and china the key problem the states of america and where his his his convictions are actually full the states of america create problems and economic cooperation with europe it exactly corresponds to the interests of china and actually european countries and he remained on this opinion, he

continued to say about it the only thing that him squeezed out, well, this is another time. well, china stated that the use of nuclear weapons and the transfer of nuclear weapons to a third country are inadmissible. that is, this is already a well-known fact, but once again he confirmed that, in terms of political issues, the main thing for china is to tear it off as far as possible europe from the united states of america to create such an alternative and trade in this way, well, this is not much different from the russian rhetoric of its time, the soviet rhetoric, so europe is good, americans bad pyrolyzts that prevent us from living peacefully and trading over time oksano, i have a question for you regarding the statement that all the money is on

the head of the people's republic of china said that well, he condemned, let's say , the bombing of civilians, but at the same time he did not notice that it is the russian federation that is doing this or is it possible to say that the position has progressed somewhat. does he still stand his ground? no, this is absolutely as the chinese representative in the european union said - this is rhetoric, this is a rhetorical expression, so absolutely he remains on his positions , eh, he used this visit of macron and ursula fonduriline in his own interests, he showed how he knows how to divide europeans, he showed this by his attitude to macron and to fond rolain, who are completely opposite, that is , he accepted macron as a respected leader, he

is there and salutes and the guard of honor and the reception at the residence of the father and the head of the european union of the european commission, he showed that he does not perceive the european european commission , the european union, as a party with which one can discuss the political world order and, er, political er, some agreements with representatives of the european union to conduct and this proved that macron , on his part, also did not behave quite correctly when he was blinded by such a reception by the chinese, and by such a trick of the east, in fact, he acted as a purely french leader who pursues only his economic interests first of all, he did not show the

european unity that he was supposed to demonstrate , so he called on these purely formal people to influence putin to stop the war , but he did not mention taiwan in any way it was macaron that he did not in any way mention the uyghurs and the violation of human rights, because the europeans elevated human rights to the absolute , but here, for some reason, macron was silent when at the press conference he was simply asked directly about taiwan, he also refused to a counterbalance to ursula fondolyan, who did not directly tell her about the problems of taiwan , the problems with ukraine, the war in ukraine, and so on , do you think that europeans can now repeat putin's experience from zimpin, and hope that if we do not say what his

infuriating and he said even more such a cruel person than putin, when he hears an opposing opinion, you can agree with him on everything and he won't do anything bad, but everything will be fine, just don't be annoying , they call names, you know, well, that's what comes to mind this is exactly the behavior that is very similar to what they did with putin. and it is also similar to what france did during the soviet union. yes, when it closed with the ussr and agreed to separate itself from the entire west. well, here it can. maybe it was such well prepared behavior i possible this of course, many people compare macron's behavior with hutsulderlein's behavior as the behavior of a good and a bad policeman, yes, that is, one softens and the other does not force the tough

one to feel eh hmm if this is so, then in principle this behavior did not achieve the result they expected and in principle of course, now the question becomes absolutely obvious to other european countries: what is happening and whether there is any further european unity, and first of all, i think that macron to macron, interesting questions will arise in the united the united states and i think that not in the french president will have to explain a lot to the same negotiations with zelensky and maksym, ursula von der leyen after the visit and the negotiations all told zimpin that when the conditions are met, then the leader of china and our president zelensky will talk. why is this being made into such an epic? china does not

consider ukraine to be a subject. even now, when we are fighting for our territorial integrity and independence so much, well, judging by his behavior, the behavior of china, of course, he considers only the united states is a subject, he does not even consider russia to be a subject because of course he behaves like uh, how he behaves, uh, he is ready to talk objectively with the united states about the division of the world, and all the others are such players with whom uh you can play chess games and your interests, first of all, fight with russia, these are resources, these are raw materials, with europe, as well, as a source of capital , a source of high technologies, because the united states is now cutting off the chinese in access to capital. to high technology, well, they found

a europe that can be to divide so to flatter separate leaders separately one er for example first something went, then sanchez is now macron, that is, for each country separately to raise play on some differences between european countries and their policy in this way to conduct on the european continent despite er some interests of the americans and the interests of united europe so to speak, that is, it is somewhat cynically true, but the reality is that we are here for values, for freedom, and they divide the world, as far as the east is concerned . everyone understands how mr. games, in principle, one can hope that the conversation between zelensky one day there will be significant prospects in kyiv, but they have been pursuing it for a long time, well, you know, i have great doubts that as of now this conversation is possible, well, first of all, there really is no

to offer yes from india to zelenskiy and without this formula well, simply, syntenpin apparently does not consider it appropriate to raise this at all the question is, on the one hand, on the one hand, there are such general patterns of phrases. and this plan is absolutely so very, very unclear, but on the other hand , it is clear that he does not know how to support either in russia or cool meetings to meet in in the world and in the same united states of america, that is, the chinese really consider all these dialogues as dialogues specifically with the americans , dialogues about the new world order and the bell, with zelensky, it can be considered precisely as the finalization or non- agreement

which were reached well, conventionally speaking, there is between china and the united states of america, where china also contributes to this agreement well, but so far there are no such agreements and there are no plans on the horizon, accordingly, there is no bell , there are no contacts, and a journalist. yes, mr. igor, we will agree, let's talk about another simple topic that cannot be bypassed right now. what do you think is happening in the middle east? can you explain this? the gas sector , a terrorist attack on the west bank , a terrorist attack in tel aviv, and i even have to say that i did not usually watch