[000:00:00;00] they compare it with the united states, and on the other hand, they do not criticize it, and even the council accepts help in complex geopolitical problems, such as in negotiations with the dictator putin and the conclusion of a grain agreement, for example , despite the problems of turkey, iran is an important player in the black sea region, the keeper of the keys to the black sea, the second most powerful nato army and the country that still manages to enter a dialogue with russia, this is the column, the emphasis is to name oleksiy fadeev, and today we are focusing on the neighboring and important turkey, is it useful the current role of turkey in the region and the world for ukraine and whether it can change if prijeb and its pardogan lose the elections, we will talk about it as usual with guests in the studio , today's guests are yevhen dobryak , an expert, an international expert, and a people's

deputy of the sixth convocation i congratulate you and the international political scientist , professor of the department of international relations of the national aviation university, gentlemen . i congratulate you, so as it was said in the brief. recognize the kremlin's claims to ukrainian territory. one of the first leaders of the nato member countries provided military aid to the armed forces of ukraine in the very first weeks , and it was important both technically and militarily and psychologically, because the magic word "berektar " at that time became synonymous with it is not just a weapon, it is also a symbol and this is a fact, on the other hand, we all know that evdogan played a key role in the exchange of prisoners, including providing shelter for their release from russian captivity, with the commanders of the azov regiment, together with the un , was able to unblock and the ukrainian black sea

ports for the sake of the grain initiative, and on the other hand, we understand that ankara also cooperates with russia, turkey has become an anti-sanction port for russian companies, turkey continues to buy russian energy carriers, and in your opinion, people who call this policy turkey recently, just in preparation for this program, had to read an article by one of the analysts of the washington institute of middle east policy, and there the author of the article called the policy of turkey non-binary, but what kind of policy do you consider to be, please, who is the first well, let me start, i would say yes, you know, there is a lot of vectorism, this term will be more understandable to our viewers . yes, we joked so much behind the scenes about the term bin

is not binary e politics e. i apologize for the quote, e-e , please, so, in principle, you know, this is an example, a classic example i myself give to students and my audience the example of erdoğan's policy as a classic riopolitician , yes. that is, the head of state that in principle every country should defend its own national interests, the named leader of maxim kissinger, about the fact that there are no eternal enemies eternal friends, so eternal, more precisely, and there are interests absolutely because, for example, if we look even at the mutual relationship between turkey and russia and personally erdoğan and putin even during the last nine years, when the military aggression against russia began, for example, the 16th year

when russia already entered syria, how did they shoot down on the orders of murdogan, undoubtedly a personal e.e. russian bomber that flew into the territory of turkey and we remember very well what a nervous reaction it was and putin will not get away with tomatoes alone if you quote there tourists, tourists, that is, there are vegetables, all this, and we remember, then time passed, erdogan came. well, so to speak, not to bow down, but it looked exactly like that, that is, he himself flew to st. petersburg, it seems to me. and there, everyone ate him accepted there where the statuette of catherine when it happened yes, just these figures that there are no certain relations of the war in which russia was winning at that time, that is, putin well, like all uh, tyrants love

symbolism, that is, in principle, this example demonstrates that turkey and erdoğan defends first of all his own interests and of course he takes advantage of this situation on the one hand turkey is not interested in russia completely occupying as they tried and are still trying these minute goals they did not give up the entire coast of the black sea so that it sends its influence because now turkey is number one, yes, the number one country in the black sea basin, absolutely without the permission of turkey , the black sea turns into a fly. i.e. they are not interested in russia being completely deepened, let's talk about it now, mr. yevgeny, do you agree with mr. maksym that, well, turkey's policy is actually

politics, well, i agree, first of all, with the thesis that turkey defends its own national interests 100%, but we must understand that erdogan and turkey is an eastern country, it is a muslim country, erdogan himself is a representative of islam, where he actually islamizes, so we remember what was done to erdogan with the hagia sophia, yes, of course, a lot there are factors and we must understand interests, there are global interests of turkey, there are regional interests of turkey, and regional interests of turkey, they consist in who is the leader in the near middle east region, there is a certain competition, three countries are turkey , saudi arabia and iran, and they compete with each other, who is the leader of the region and it affects the global geopolitics - the global geopolitical picture of this region. it is very important because this source is the first source of energy, we know

it is a transit source and this source is very large investment opportunities, that is why the struggle goes on and it continues to overlap. i fully agree that rdagan is in the zone of geopolitical influence of the black sea region , he played the most important role . this is really the bosphorus of the dardanelles. nuclear weapons, where is nato's second army, and so on, there are a lot of factors here, plus regional conflicts in which turkey has certain interests, plus turkey's interests in the central asian regional axis. we must understand of course, the most painful issue for turkey is the kursk issue, and it all fits into a single configuration where erdogan cannot play such a role somewhere on one side, so i really agree with

my colleague, he noted first that the national interests of turkey are the highest for them, yes, although we must understand that this is eastern politics, erdoğan is playing a very wrong game, he is playing a very dangerous game. believe me, he followed all these issues and there could be some serious consequences, but we also a few words to say about ukraine, turkey fully complies with the norms of the strategic great partnership of ukraine and turkey, which was established in 2008-2009. i observed this as a member of the verkhovna rada, i headed the hand of ukrainian-turkish friendship . at the beginning of the full-scale aggression, turkey fully fulfilled all obligations as a strategic partner, closed the mantra according to the convention , closed the dardanelles bosphorus, thereby stabilizing

the situation in the black sea region. turned out to be the guarantor of the grain agreement, which in fact provided the preconditions for not giving a large food aid. i don’t know if you agree with me, but it seems to me that exactly the role and what erdogan did personally talking to putin a played a role in the success of this next agreement well, we should also note that in our case with ukraine , there is also military-technical cooperation and humanitarian aid, the exchange of prisoners, but the most important thing is that he, like me, noted on some broadcasts that he was leading putin to the skid for a very long time , you understand, he endured this temporary pause for which measure helped us we got weapons we began to win on the battlefield a fairly serious configurational change began on the battlefield in ukraine, and this is also thanks to yordagan well , once again, the meaning is emphasized that the weapons from which the russian enigmas began to suffer en masse and yes, the first thing is

there were javelins, but the second one for sure . it would have been the turkish one, and it continued. they did not stop there. the production of drones from ukraine and this is our future is also very serious, which has a very serious perspective of military-technical cooperation . thank you, mr. maksym, and you agree with the main interests of turkey that your interlocutor listed, of course, here you can only continue to understand, that is, and there are several aspects, for example, we have listed the pluses, yes, the steps taken in favor of ukraine, but at the same time, for example, not recognizing the annexation of crimea since 2014, not to mention the annexation of new territories

insisting on the importance of preserving the territorial integrity and sovereignty of ukraine, erdoğan does not impose sanctions and this is the fact. how do you and how did you say that there are serious suspicions because there is no evidence, but objective for example, a factor that indicates that it is possible that turkey really helps russia to circumvent sanctions, so on e-e dual-purpose goods - this is e-e turnover , a significant increase in e-e exports from turkey to russia, and before that, if we see, imports from countries eu of these goods so particularly there he uses electronics just like that, that is, it is precisely because of this that the united states

first of all threatened to impose sanctions. russia's weapons from the police wow absolutely geopolitical weapons and we all insisted the ukrainian society to stop buying it, they stopped buying it in general well, with the exception of a few small states and in this sense, uh, and you remember putin offered the ford to create a gas hub, that is, it is good, of course, these opportunities that open up first buy cheaper, they worked . last year, when the prices there rose to the sky, so they resold russian gas to the countries, that is, they continue to create this gas hub, that is, what is profitable, of course, they use these opportunities which , unfortunately, on the other hand, help russia to maintain the proper economic

level and of course use these funds, russia means for armaments for the war against russia, but does dogan or turkey stand sets the task to help russia and russia, don't you think that in this situation? and we know that in recent years, turkey has experienced, let's say, negative phenomena in the economy. postponed and finally already on the 23rd, now may 14 should take place, and as american analysts write, for example, erdogan always won the elections, but he gave the people some kind of victory, some kind of result . can this be some kind of economic result for turkey to take advantage of with this situation, even in such a way as to become such a haven for russia. if we look at the situation before february 24

, which was so, that is, erdogan was in a certain international isolation, primarily from the west, he has significantly worsened in relation to european countries, primarily from france, there were such expressed are not pre-migmatic, this is all happening in nato within the nato bloc well, i don't talk about greece like that anymore. moreover, i am of greek origin, you understand from mariupol. i follow this, but you know about greece and cyprus and cyprus, of course, and here certain parallels to the eu are also purchased pseudo-republics, and it is also possible to conduct syria here, where he also plans and still has not given up on this and so to conduct his so-called special operation, so in principle, it is possible to conduct many parallels precisely because of the fact that he is first of all the leader of an eastern country that also has imperial ambitions. let's

put it mildly, no, especially in recent years, the empire and the ottoman empire, you know, have deviated from these wills atatürk is the home state of islamization and all of these, in principle, his electorate are just residents, if we are talking in the context of the elections, yes, of the megacities in istanbul , yes, that is, all these threats took place , you understand, there is one important factor here, yes, and in the context of the elections, and in general putin's personal relations, and it was putin who warned erdoğan about the mutiny that was

against him this year . mind because it is normal also affects relations and that is why, so to speak, he balances, he uses russia first of all in his confrontation, measures to get out of isolation and that is why turkey became the site of negotiations between russia and ukraine there last year. yes, in april, first of all there in march these were rejected, i.e. he, like lukashenko, in his time in the 15th year, came out of international isolation thanks to the russian-ukrainian war , becoming a platform for negotiations. i mean minsk, that's what erdogan tried to do ankara to the negotiation grounds in order to get out of isolation on the one hand, and first of all, well, all of them are leaders of states of this level of politics, they dream of the nobel prize, that is

, to change their image from a dictator to a peacemaker, and of course he wants to become a peacemaker and that peace agreements be signed precisely in ankara, yes, and that is why it has become a key platform and the grain agreement, all this, but here too, it should be understood very much, but tell me, please, but tell me, please, you yourself said that his electorate is not liberal turks who live in the cities, the truth is, is it important? is it important, er, is this peace agreement erdugan as a peacemaker with turkey as mediators, a peacemaker, is it possible for this electorate inside turkey to both questions, gentlemen, i'm sorry if you interrupt each other if you want well, i can to say about the first thing, i would like to mention about some economic issues that arise . by the way, before the election campaign. well, first of all, we must admit that turkey has a difficult

economic situation and why inflation is definitely three three significant problems with smuggling and so on, that is, a very, very difficult situation , why does the turkish center keep the discount rate low, this is a problem that deepens the crisis, this is the only thing that is the situation. why does he not break these trade and economic relations and did not join the sanctions, that is, in fact, he saved turkey's economy in some way by filling its opportunities due to such a gray area for russia, such a situation. although now they say that the re-export of dual purpose goods from the european union stopped let's see how it will work, although there is a valuable version regarding this, regarding the gas hub, well, it's uh, mistika doesn't have any gas hub, because the only branch that leads from europe to from turkey to europe is a gas pipeline, well

, a turkish stream that can pump 16 billion cubic meters of gas per year, well, that's not what it's about , in fact, they give a little to the south of europe . no, there is also domestic consumption in turkey, and maybe up to 40%. we understand what the gas act is, i.e. it was said that it foresees the further e re-export of this gas, earning from this gas, and so on, but in fact, the turks are also known in the region as at least good engineers, to put it mildly, how long would it take them to build a new gas pipeline, well, this gas pipeline, if he would go to europe requires very large investments and there is lng, yes, yes, they are really interested here, but lng is more here, this is already a region of the near middle east - this is egypt, these opportunities to export by tankers are a different situation here yes there is work on this issue further north

in iraq, oil and gas are the same. that is, these projects will be implemented there. and what about the creation of a hub and russian gas, what are the same expert energy experts, they say that it is mystik, it is simply impossible. no, it can be just as a nod to what is called in the direction of russia, and please, you have the opportunity to sell auto gas, he is playing with this and his points are drawn on this, what about your request regarding the effect of the peace agreement, the grain agreement on the domestic political situation, well, in fact minimally why because what erdoğan declared for his voters when turkey was the 17th economy, what he said that we will make turkey an economy today has not been implemented, people perfectly understand all the difficulties that exist today, they see the problems that exist inside the country as social tension said yes well, when there is nothing to spread on the bread or there is no bread in principle, peace

processes in the region are cool and super because it is this imperial tower that i am talking about, that is, if it is the same as putin, so if if we look well, there is a different dynamic and growth of the economy. because turkey has started to decrease there in recent years. yes, sanctions were imposed against it by the united states , but in general, if we look at turkey, which he accepted, so to speak and now well, as they say in odessa, there are two big differences, and in the economic sense , as well, they entered the g20 and, first of all , a technological state, here we talked about the bayraktars, so they became well, this is a huge measure, you understand, the queue was already lined up there e- e is very huge on not only russia and not only ukraine wants to buy these. and for example, they are building us there. for example, if ukraine has a fleet and

there are already certain results, that is, turkey has become a huge technological state, because nuclear power is a huge amount of money, and so is export and er, the currency and this and these revenues are growing and this is already in the future, you know , this is a great example if we look at all the best, probably one of the best examples if you look at the year 91, when ukraine gained independence, so our potential on who is industrial and er turkey at that time was a completely agrarian state yes er well what did we say 98 completely yes from the military part yes yes they are that is light industry vegetables everything and what we see now that is we have changed we have changed places i.e.

turkey is already a regional state, so regionally, i would say that in the middle east region, it is in the top 20 despite all these problems, although there are also nuances. as they say , you understand, there is inflation, but the economy is growing that is, uh, this is the model erdoğan implemented there, too. as they say, there is a field for discussion. but we don't have it at this time, that is. and we lost ours during this time, maybe and yes, if i remember, they sold china there first . the aircraft carrier was built not near mykolaivskyi, but the contract is now why we are already ordering these corvettes from turkey to build us. this ukrainian block is nevertheless the same autostat who called turkey's policy non-binary, by the way, its name is soner jagaptay well, what about me

a turkish surname it seems so and you can definitely trust a person, but look at what he says about ukraine, firstly, that ankara will not allow kyiv to fall under the pressure of moscow because of turkey's vision of ukraine, turkey sees ukraine as an important ally in the balance of power in the black sea region, and secondly, again after all, this author points out that ukraine is the third country in terms of size and population after turkey, the russian federation in the region, plus the fourth in terms of economy. well, before a large-scale war, of course, there is another reason for support, which this mr. jaggaptai writes about. these are historical connections with the crimean khanate, so that means a bust or who is there? catherine was there, not by chance, at the meeting, as well as the historical ties with turkey, so how far is it an eastern state that conducts eastern politics, and does

she remember how on in the east, historical images are common. well, let's say that images are not. well, of course, images are historical. eastern countries are very beautiful. serious interest in ukraine and why will turkey really not allow ukraine to fall? this is the baltic-black sea region, this is the completion of the regional security architecture. that is, there are two options, yes, or this security architecture can look like london. lyuklyuch because without it, without it, to put it bluntly, ankara, london, warsaw, kyiv , where did they complete the reading on the irrigater, we will be in nato, conditionally speaking, i hope that we will be in

nato, we will not be in nato, but it is salty this pass is of great importance to erdoğan - he understands this very well and it is a counterweight to the countermeasures in this expansion that took place in the russian federation. he also perfectly understands the whole situation, for example, the expansion of russia in the middle east region. yes, he already perfectly understands what although he is now using the russian federation as an intermediary in order to establish gray relations, you know that the meeting of the deputy ministers of foreign affairs of the quartet iran, russia, turkey, and syria has just arrived. then a meeting of the four is planned, which will actually solve this issue because for erdogan this issue is very, very serious . what else would i like to say that has a great impact on today and on the internal situation , in general, on the future elections, this is a burden definitely definitely for which, in principle, erdogan lost a lot

i lost my big rating because we saw how turkish construction companies are so economically, this scandal actually built buildings, but they showed correctly built thistles standing next to them, they kept salt more than that. well, of course, the source is some kind of social network, but at least there i read in the notebook, it seems, a post about the mayor of some small town who did not let these forgotten developers in , and he doesn’t have any. nevertheless, listen, you will agree with the authors of another article, jonan island not so long ago, just a few days ago, published an article that had such a long title that the war between russia and ukraine turned out to be not uh, not expected the winner is erdogan, who seems to have won from this situation. well, 100%. i'm saying, in principle, he has already come out of international isolation. last year, when turkey

ankara became the site of negotiations, he is the main beneficiary, so to speak, all the beneficiaries of this supply agreement, because we remember. last year it was the global media field. starting from the leaders of the states and ending with the secretary general of the un, they said about the threat of a food crisis , so definitely erdoğan became, let's say , the winner who was able to negotiate with putin in order to unblock the export of ukrainian grain, that is, in principle, now we see competition . that is, it was the biggest benefic

, so to speak. now the whale has already entered the arena and as interlocutor because erdogan wants to call, of course the effect is when he says we will have to negotiate, we will negotiate because there is no result, that is, putin is here, everyone has just to take a certain pig, it's also er, and everyone has just taken the election, well, if you can say so, that is, he has the next five years without any problems at all , the elections are hanging over erdogan, the voting will begin on may 14 of this year, and now we literally have less than 10 minutes remain interesting, the conversation is fast, time goes by and what do you think of the next cardigan well, firstly, to what extent does regzep himself and her, so to speak, have a chance to hold on to the position, and secondly, the next border and this is, oh, i’m very emal, few, many, what’s for turkey is a very cool name for turkey. because

kamalataturk is the name of kilic daroglulu, if i remember correctly, it is the main opponent in the elections, and according to all