[000:00:00;00] maybe to promote our program e-e on the internet on the internet in the end i want to remind you that the next time we will meet as usual next monday there will be new guests there will be new topics it will be interesting as always unfortunately due to lack of time i have to end today's program i say goodbye to you only for today, but don't switch because our broadcast continues and continues my colleague serhii rudenko and his verdict i congratulate serhii, you have a word i congratulate yura it will literally start in a few seconds verdict glory to ukraine is a program verdict my name is serhiy rudenko good day and good health to all today april 10, 411 days of heroic resistance of the ukrainian people to the russian occupiers, the occupiers in bakhmut

switched to syrian tactics of scorched earth, said the commander of the ground forces of the armed forces of ukraine, oleksandr syrsky, who visited in the city, meanwhile, the cnn television company reported that ukraine changed its military plans due to the report and the leak of secret documents of the pentagon. on april 9, the department of justice of the united states of america began investigation into the leak of a huge number of american intelligence documents that were published on social networks. over the past few weeks, meanwhile, the russian occupiers continue to lose manpower and equipment in ukraine. as of the morning of april 10, russia lost 178,820 people in ukraine in the last day alone. at the beginning of the great war , the russians had already lost 3,637 tanks , 7,028 armored fighting vehicles, 2,750 artillery systems, 534 anti

-aircraft missile systems, and 282 anti-aircraft weapons in ukraine. of defense 37 aircraft 292 helicopters 5607 units of automotive equipment 18 ships boats 911 cruise missiles - 2323 drones 311 units of special equipment about how the russians are turning bakhmut into but who foils the counteroffensive to the armed forces of ukraine and who leaks secret documents about the counteroffensive of the armed forces of ukraine in the spring this year well, and about how everyone and lukashenko is trying to balance or at least make curtseys towards moscow and what will come of this about this so about other things we are talking about during the next hour i want to present

our first guest today is the colonel of the sbu, the people's deputy of ukraine, the secretary of the verkhovna rada committee on national security, defense and intelligence , roman kostenko, mr. colonel, good day , good health to you and thank you for joining our broadcast. good day, let's first start with this scandal that is now is gaining momentum in the united states of america , in particular, regarding the leak of secret documents of the pentagon, cn already reports that ukraine has changed its military plans due to the leak of classified documents and these are classified the documents tell the elements or at least contain the elements of how ukraine will be the center to organize a counteroffensive, if you look at what the american press writes, it is top news for the americans. that is, it is one of the biggest news of the american press and is obvious to american society, and how do you

mr. colonel, do you evaluate this whole story with the documents with the adjustment of our plans? is this just an informational and psychological special operation, the result of which should be a counteroffensive in the form that is planned ukrainians and partners, well, based on what i see in the story , if i talk to people, including from the special services, this is a real leak of information, the question is how deep it is and how controlled it is there. special is it really, shall we say, the merits of russian intelligence that we see that he really was, russian intelligence received this information, they slightly adjusted these documents and executed them in order for us

to see the main thing here well, really, in order to disrupt our plans if we show that they know about them, the question here is how deeply they know it and how often, or is this a one-time promotion, or do they often receive this information, and how often do they have experience accessing this information so far ? well, about statements, we see that the united states did not declare that this is information that this is not true, they are further investigating how deeply this was all and also, er, authoritative changes, including from yanen, writes that ukraine is now changing plans - this is what i am thinking about it only our commander-in-chief and the commander-in-chief know there, but ours and the president's office. we remember there he already talked about the fact that it is like photoshop and our main intelligence directorate says that it is photoshop. which really confirm that we will figure out how serious this leak was. i think that

now it really is a serious blow to the authority of the united states, to the authority of nato, and indeed this one will be dealt with at the level already at the state level. i think at the level of the special services, and in particular, many allies and in nato and uh, first of all. and in general, those who see such an attack , they need a direct reaction . they need to be convinced somehow that there will be no more such types. this is what concerns our partners . how will it affect us, well, if this is real information, now, counting this information, it really has at least some really correct data. and there is information that it is really russians. well, there were correct data, those that are universal, then we really have to somehow

to adjust our plans to carry out some actions, whether they will be offensive or defensive, or what will there be in general, there will be replenishment of us with ammunition, change the scheme and replenishment of us , and weapons. therefore, this is serious, this is serious, it leads to a big scandal and big changes, and i say the main thing once again to find out whether there is no possibility of obtaining this information against them in the future. by the way, the fact that ukraine changed its military plans due to the leak of this secret information was reported by cnn , referring to one of the sources in the near the entourage of volodymyr zelenskyi, on the eve of this, or during this, the secretary of the national security and defense council was asked about this, too, that this will be a counteroffensive, and that how will it all unfold, we know that mrs. hanna malyer, the deputy minister of defense of ukraine , spoke about the fact that it is not necessary for everyone comment on this counteroffensive in general is such a topic that needs some kind of silence about it, he says that

there are at least 5 or 6 people in the world who know about counteroffensive, a maximum of five or six people, uh, mr. romana, are you among these five or six people who know when there will be a counteroffensive and about the plans of the armed forces of ukraine without details, see i think that mr. danilov meant it can't be like that , the information is closed, who in the world knows about it , there are five people i know much more, for example much more are attached directly to hm to whom the information is transmitted, for example, there are people such as the supreme commander-in-chief, the commander -in-chief , the chief of the general staff there.

they also know the president unequivocally because we understand what kind of relationship there is. but i know there are people who develop it too, but there are also people, how to call them correctly, friends who understand where he will be, who are there according to the analysis, according to the fact, and you understand, but they do not have this sign, so i i think it's like that, he knows the approximate directions about it. there are a certain number of a little more than five people, but to talk about where he will be, well, no one can, and i'm here, in principle, on the one hand, you can agree with the painter and on the other sides we every expert has the opportunity well, he can tell so that our people understand what kind of plan we have in general and where they will be specifically, it will be all the same, you , you, uh, make a decision, our training or the head of the general well, the enemy will think about different directions and will

prepare for different directions although i will say that in our time, technology , the time of satellites, the time of unmanned aerial vehicles, the time of the internet , the time of the development of intelligence networks, especially since the russians have enough tentacles here in our country deep enough now it is difficult to hide the main directions for active hostilities, that is why it is possible to somehow encrypt it, but until the end i think it is unrealistic to do it not for us, not for the russians, the leader of the private military campaign, wagner yevgeny prigozhyn, estimated the number of ukrainian troops before the counteroffensive at 200-400 thousand personnel, he says that the counteroffensive will begin as soon as it dries up the soil and the necessary weapons will arrive to the ukrainian soldiers, we will hear and see prigozhin, and this is here live from the sources of

alichirov , the ukrainians have a task as the next. when they finish a glance flowery music not a supplement they collected and understood by two hundreds with their own hands everything mr. colonel, russian propagandists are already hysterical on russian television about this counteroffensive uh, the russians have a complete idea according to your uh, what awaits them literally in a few weeks well we see that they themselves say that it is impossible to underestimate us, and this is already correct, because they understand that once they already underestimated us , it was at the beginning of the full-scale

invasion on february 24 and before that they really they did not appreciate morally, psychologically, not the army, not our allies, and therefore they did not have practical success in success does not mean the success they were counting on, they did not get now and probably 10% of the success they wanted now . received as a result of some of our shortcomings of our leadership at the beginning of the war, let's say so, that's why they understand that we have new equipment, they understand that we are preparing reserves, we are preparing brigades , but let's say, i think that of course this leak of information you may have given them a bigger picture to understand and it is always bad, why do we not have enough when we will have specific deliveries, let's say so, make them react faster to these actions, it is possible to start a counterattack sooner rather than waiting for

all this to reach us or vice versa if they wanted to start their counteroffensive unprepared, they will see these schedules that are there and will understand that they still have some time for more serious preparation, so once again i say the leak of this information, if it really happened, this is what our partners say and since they say in the bakhmat information that it will have a rather negative effect on the theater of hostilities in general. yesterday, the commander of the ground forces of the armed forces of ukraine, oleksandr syrsky, visited the area of ​​the city of bakhmut and he stated that the occupiers in bakhmut have switched to the syrian tactics of scorched earth, the enemy has switched to the so-called syrian practice scorched earth destroys buildings and positions with air strikes and artillery fire the defense of bakhmut continues the situation is difficult but under control mr. colonel mr.

general said that the russians have moved to the tactic of the syrian tactic of burning the ground, but this tactic was used even in mariupol, well, that is, it is a common tactic for them not only in syria but also in ukraine, because we saw how they destroyed volnovakha, we see what they are doing to cities and villages in donbas that is, they deliberately simply create this gray zone between russia, relatively speaking, and ukraine, that is, they specifically burn this land so that no one lives there at all, nothing grows there, and there was nothing there at all. that is, this is a deliberate practice of creating this gray zone which military experts talk about quite often. well, i think that it is a little different than the syrian company. why now? now i will try to explain the syrian campaign. the russians

simply destroyed populated areas with their aviation and artillery. when they saw that everything was already destroyed, they did not spend there how much personnel how much. well, for example, how much are they spending now, how do they work here, uh, directly. yesterday i spoke with the military, for example, we have the line of defense that goes along the bahmut over some high-rise houses, they have infantry in front of them, it rests against our strong points, there is some house. yes, what is it? our guys destroy this infantry. the enemy transmits the coordinates, and after 10 minutes, all the artillery works on our positions and destroys this this house, which we are defending, is being destroyed by our

guys, who are leaving, there are wounded, and then they are coming. a new wave of infantry is coming. again, these this house is trying for these lands, that is, they are sending their infantry to the development, after that, the artillery will destroy these strongholds in which our attack units are detected, the tactics they are using now, that is, mr. colonel, they are just a human shield, just making their way forward, i understand correctly detect detect our fire points die and then are destroyed they call in artillery they destroy these points that destroyed them and then advance further and in this way detect new points this is their current tactic, it is a bit not syrian, but the result is of course the same in syria, it is the destruction of cities, the destruction of infrastructure and in general the destruction of everything where there can be, where there can be fire points , as far as mr. colonel, holding the city of

bakhmut remains expedient in the current situation, taking into account that they just went there , according to eyewitnesses, they already threw some special forces, special forces, who are already a new batch, i.e. it's not just wagnerites there , they're armed to the teeth , well, at least that's what the people who are there are talking about are located, i.e. obviously, they are throwing all their forces there in order to take bakhmut and at least one city. over the past few months , to say that we have taken another point there on the map of ukraine. i have my point of view, but i will say that it is probably so that if the command of golovko believes it is traditional because he directly has all the information, and in principle it is his responsibility and he has to do it even on one side, we can see what is going on there, we can say that we have to move

the troops to reserve positions on the other side as military, we see what part of the russian troops we are chaining in the direction of bakhmut, and the enemy is holding a large number of them there, and if we think about the prospects for a counteroffensive, for example, i would not align these e-e units in order to if we strike in another direction to let's say they were hidden in this direction, what tactics did the commander choose, it's his right, he has it, he has it, he's responsible for it and he decides it, it 's last week, mr. colonel, nato expanded by one more member, it became finland 1,300 km of the common border of the new common border of the north atlantic alliance with the russian federation, that is, a complete foreign policy fiasco of vladimir putin , instead of the kremlin, e-e announced that

tactical nuclear weapons will be placed on the territory of belarus starting from july 1 , some kind of storage is being built there, although the photos that were on the network there, these storage facilities are still similar to those from soviet times, like finland joining nato and sweden in the future, and the placement of tactical nuclear weapons in belarus , how will this affect the course of the russian-ukrainian war because we remember that putin said that our main goal is to put the nato countries and nato as a structure in their place and push them there to the borders of 1997, well, at least those were putin's illusions as far as the accession of finland and sweden to nato will affect the course of the war and the placement of tactical nuclear weapons in belarus well, here in general we remember the goals

of the special operation named by the president of the russian federation yes, and he said that the goals were directly they are not counting those that he tried to achieve demilitarization in ukraine . we remember the denotification. well, on the expansion of nato and the fact that ukraine does not become a member of the ato, as a result, you are right. this is a complete fiasco of any kind of diplomacy in general, if it can be called the russian federation, it is bad, only the people of the russian federation perceive all this and , er, live with it, if i see that their president and their elite are simply dragging them into a pit with i don't know what they will need for at least a century to get elected on the condition that he leaves. but they just accept it as normal

, living in poverty , and i think that's what they need. their country, as for finland, they used the situation with russia , which they could not use after the second world war, used it to their advantage and now well, they are a country that is supported by all of nato, they ensured their security and russia can't, can't, won't be able to do anything and nato has actually strengthened this country as far as belarus and nuclear weapons are concerned. i don't think it will scare nato, it will only give them another reason to place some of their missiles in some other countries er, let's say er to the countries. maybe in the future in ukraine, if they say, look in finland, belarus is there, that's why we are the same allies of ukraine, that's why we give

to ukraine so that there are no attacks from belarus, maybe it will also happen. and i think that this a normal reason that we can we remember that russia was also the guarantor of ukrainian security according to the budapest memorandum, so nato can give it, so we'll see how it will be in the future. but i'm sure that putin is just trying to intimidate someone else by providing weapons, but no one is afraid of him anymore i really see, obviously the 32nd member country of the north atlantic alliance will be sweden. well, we hope that ukraine will be the 33rd after all, and we know that the summit of the north atlantic alliance will not be held in vilnius in the summer, well at least representatives of the ukrainian state are already talking about the fact that at this summit they still hope to receive some kind of action plan or

cooperation plan or a plan of cooperation. nato still has old days. let’s say that from the old days, since 1997, even during kuchma’s time. they talked about this about the pdc, nato, then a lot of events took place in ukraine, and gradually this topic took a back seat . or on the third plan now ukraine has actually already rearmed the army, we are already on nato standards, that is, most of the units are also, as far as i know, moving to nato standards, well, at least the azov regiment was formed exactly according to nato standards, it was formed, formulated, uh, what do you think, or can ukraine now start this process? it is clear that for nato

is a big problem, that there is a war between russia and ukraine , because according to the nato charter, the countries there should not have any territorial disputes , but this is not a territorial dispute, it is actually aggression in its pure form, or maybe ukraine will become a member of nato before the end of the war. you know here. the question is that the nato statute does not say anything about territorial disputes or conflicts. this is an unwritten rule. well, if there is any territorial dispute, then if a country cannot be accepted into nato, but in general there is no such thing with the consensus of all countries, any country in the world can join nato, but here you have conducted in such a way that nato understands that it is not just some country that is fighting there today, and tomorrow that we have changed into they have something in the country and there they also switched to democracy and you can just take ukraine into nato. no, this is the russian federation from which against

which nato was actually created because of that, i think that this issue will be considered much more deeply and not i know the prospects, but now it seems to me that the situation is that only after we win and we win, only then will we tell the full military plan. when there will be structural changes in russia and in political life, and i think structurally directly inside the country, then we will very quickly to be accepted into nato. but before that, we will still need to do a lot, because it is precisely in our country that russia will use them to rattle weapons , and we are much more important to them than finland or some other criminal or than belarus, so we will to go and nato already supports us, we will rearm and nato. i think we will want our

country to go there because we are the only army, well , not counting russia in europe, which has combat experience of such a scale in a war against the russian federation, but i think there will be a question to be resolved gradually as soon as there is an opportunity and there is a political and military one, then we will immediately become members of the analysts of the institute for the study of war from the united states of america believe that russia uses religion as a weapon, that is, the lower situation around the branch of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, and analysts consider it dangerous for the future and for the current ukraine, you are , as a people's deputy of ukraine and a person who takes care of security and defense issues. in your opinion, should the verkhovna rada of ukraine at the legislative level simply prohibit the activities of the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate, taking into account the fact that

part of the clergy - part of the leaders of this church have either russian passports or accusations or are suspected of committing crimes, like the same former vicar of the kyiv-pechersk lavra pavlo lebid, well , as far as you know, the draft law already exists it is registered in the parliament, so it's just in the verkhovna rada, and in particular, the speaker needs to bring this bill to the floor and vote . well, analysts say that russia can to use the approach of the orthodox holiday of easter on april 16 to delay the ukrainian counteroffensive, that is, to deploy the internal front in ukraine and provoke internal conflicts, we see how in western ukraine parishes are moving from the uoc mp to the ptu and we see in some moments the use of hm well such of the provocateurs who are trying

to provoke one side and the other to some actions, considering the fact that many people , as it is not surprising and for me this is also a discovery , willingly continue to go to the moscow church whether or not there are such possibilities in the russian federation to manage this process and provoke the deployment of the internal front of the internal war. well, i think that we have for this special service directly to control this, we must of course take this into account that despite our wishes in which we want to in order to make sure that we don't have any religious problems, but the special services have to solve this particular issue and understand what the plans of the russian federation are regarding what it plans on a religious basis, and in particular that

what did you say? they have to deal with it. they have to collect this information and pass it on to the president or those who make decisions, and on the basis of this , management decisions should already be made, so of course we have to do everything to ensure that we do not have russia does not use it in any way. religion as a weapon against us, but we have to do it in such a way that well, really , well, let's say so, so as not to open another front inside , we have to do it carefully but we have to do it, information appeared that the authorities of the rivne region banned the activities of the uoc in the region, well, there are already some regional decisions. and this is very reminiscent of the fall of lenin, when lenin was overthrown in kyiv on bessarabian square, then the whole of ukraine began, that is, the domino effect, when one or two parishes were transferred to the church and when the faithful realized that this church was working

against the enemy then and it happens in your way, why do people not fully realize that the church they go to is the enemy and belongs to the kremlin and works for the kremlin, why these bloody events that took place during the last year and in general during for the past nine years, why aren't people convinced that everything in moscow is hostile? well, the state simply didn't work with it , they were afraid to touch it. convocation, i would be its author, we accepted it because there they wanted to do what exactly these churches that do not work for the russian federation worked in the army, and there are a lot of deputies, in particular, who did not directly want to vote. well, we directly had parishioners of this church before the war there were many people from the authorities remember ivan bakanov, i already spoke