[000:00:00;00] i will say that there were attempts to push, then you will ask me the question where is my application to the relevant authorities ? yes, that is , i would say yes. or to write an official letter to the manager, then there was no such incident, but they hire ukrainian lawyers, they do not have ukrainian lobbyists-consultants who also try to come and explain, etc. let's go. yes, we were talking. well, i wouldn't say that these are hints, yes, but, well, we understand that when you hire certain people to represent your interests in ukraine, we basically understand the tools that these people

use. to deal with this direction, we er, well, we brought this issue up in the briefing because for many of us it was a revelation that the nazk grants the status of war sponsor and we somehow got used to the fact that in the zk it is more about declarations about the corruption of officials about the er primary i got a job for the investigators because, based on the work of the national security agency, we have a lot of criminal cases, and suddenly there is such work in this direction, and here we had a marathon broadcast by the head of the national security agency, oleksandr novikov. he spoke about the fact that the national security agency has now been given such powers but tell us in more detail at what moment the nazk received these powers. and you know, for us, it was probably a surprise to us that we were doing this. well, how. apparently , no one expected it, actually, yes, that is, even there a couple of years ago. it is unlikely that we thought that we will face such a challenge as a country on february 27 - this is the 22nd year, when did ukraine understand yes that we need

to launch sanctions tools, we need to launch a bunch of other tools and which will be effective economic weapons, in fact, the question became and which the body is able to take and carry out this function, and here you know that this is a question not only of ukraine, it is actually a question of the whole world, because even our partners in the selection coalition, their entire sanctioning infrastructure was formed in during the interwar period, they were not able to apply sanctions so intensively due to the way it was designed, because even in the american bodies they deal with sanctions, and the number of employees financing the tools remained as for example, for 100 sanctions a year , and today they use more than a thousand a year there, and i here the ukrainian ukraine turned to the same thing that we were not ready for this and among the bodies that have significant analytical potential and are able

to create very quickly a-a it components that a product that will work, that will be user friendly, that will be quoted for users abroad, nazc turned out to be one of those bodies that is able to take it up and do it very quickly, and on february 27, 2022 , the first work of nazc in this direction began and to this day, by the way, our portal is nominated for an international competition . we made it to the final. we hope that in may we will receive an award. we really expect international recognition. in fact, our portal is truly a unique product, and these are our partners who communicate with us, the portal, these people who the competition commission evaluated the tender proposals, they are surprised, they say how is it possible after a full-scale invasion to start from scratch and create a portal to come up with these international sports wars and everything else yes , but here i think it was very right because in fact when we sigh with a challenge to which they were ready. the question here is not what the body

is called, what is written in the law. yes, regarding its authority, the question here is who is able to take it and do it quickly. exactly as it should be, and it turned out now with the work of the nsdc because we are used to the sanctions policy in our country, the national security council, the national security council imposes certain sanctions , we have presidential orders, and you, your work at the national security council is a separate area. the nsdc is a receiver of how it works. we interact very effectively. in fact, today a very effective interaction has been built between various bodies of the nsdc - this is essentially the penultimate stage before the presidential decrees, and before the nsdc there is an interdepartmental group which was created under the cabinet of ministers and which includes all the first persons of the bodies involved in the sanctions process and can you imagine in ukraine

at one table every week the first persons of the sbu, the prosecutor general's office and the ministry of economy and the main intelligence directorate of the foreign intelligence service and so on discussing sanctions issues, a subcommittee of the working group , an export group has been created, which includes the heads of structural divisions, who work out decisions that are already voted on by the interdepartmental group and nazk is included in the expert group and in the interdepartmental working group, and all the developments we develop are brought to the export group. we play important roles in summarizing all proposals , in conducting analytical work , identifying new sanctions targets , identifying the scheme for entering sanctions, and working out everything is there, everything is with all the bodies, each body makes its contribution, analyzes these documents . then, at the interdepartmental working group a-a , the members vote for it, and after that, these

proposals a-a are made through the security service to the national security council of the national security council of the national security council, if they support them, they support them, then we already see the decrees of the president and the consequences in the form of abramovich, which are being sold for the first time on the air . i would like to return the process to the time of sanctions. i would like to return specifically to the question of the impact of sanctions. and how does a company get into this international register of war sponsors? it hurts them for the first time . maybe they even go somewhere to cry on the themselves at home to the kitchen, but what happens after a certain time, they forgot about this story and operate businesses with the usual uh, that's why i just want you, i just understood from your words that

this is really like a warning shot ah, and then there are some things to come nevertheless, on the basis of this entry in this register, can the company fall under ukrainian sanctions, or maybe under ukrainian and even western sanctions, of course it can, and what’s more, you know, it doesn’t happen to them at that moment and when they get used to living with it that we have a company that we contributed to a few months ago and every day and every week and month they have, on the contrary, the effect of the contribution, it only increases because their activities there are becoming more and more complicated . for example, the same raiffeisen bank aval because, on the one hand, it was included in the international sponsors of the war, on the other hand, we see a direct reward from the bank to the russian military for committing war crimes in the form of credit holidays

or the granting of special preferential loans to the russian military, the question here is not only that they sponsor the war, but the question is whether they are complicit in such a situation if you reward the russian military . we already know that today appropriate checks are being carried out by the american authorities of the bank, we know that the european central bank has already contacted the relevant management of raiffeisen regarding its presence in russia, and with each passing day the clouds over such entities are more and more are converging and i think that those who do not make the only correct decision to leave may find themselves under sanctions. another company as a candidate, you know, there is one that can be called a potential candidate for sanctions. this is the italian company daniel, because it is a company that supplies russia with equipment that is used for metalworking and it still makes deliveries to sub-sector russian enterprises, including the enterprises for the example of the oligarch mardashov and so on, and from these enterprises, with the help

of this equipment, later also what is supplied directly in russian, and the company still hasn't made a decision to leave russia, the company is still there, it hires employees, and so on. and in principle, i would probably name these two entities. these are the ones that can already move to the sanctioned list in the event that they do not change their behavior. and who will make the decision to enter the emotional list, you put this war sponsor marker, provided the argumentation, and then each country separately is the ukrainian national security and defense council, who should make this decision so that they these people were caught on the basis of what you said. they were sanctioned by their activities, which actually make this list for western sanctions of future candidates, so to speak . so we are also included in this a-a group e-e

stanford international group on russian sanctions active participants we participate in the development of papers that are not issued and also there, of course, these questions are raised, if we are talking about ukraine, then decisions will be made just as i described to you, the expert group, the interagency working group of the national security council and accordingly, of course, the final decision is not up to the supreme commander-in-chief, according to volodymyr zelenskyi, if we are talking about an international coalition, then you know legally, of course, each country has an appropriate sanctions procedure and decisions are made in it by its sanctioning bodies. an austrian bank or an italian company, it is unlikely that these decisions will be made by countries separately. of course, they will be discussed if we are talking about the european union - it at the level of the european union at the level of meeting them if we are talking about other countries - it is at the level of j7 all the more so as we know that

today the seven has already been created . its representatives who will deal with it. to strengthen the implementation of these sanctions. therefore, it will be taken as a matter of course. it seems to me that the working order should first be discussed between the countries of the sanctions coalition, whether all countries should also do this they know about these problems, you don't know about international sponsors , and the ministry of foreign affairs regularly hears questions about this from our partners. i am preparing information . that really we have enough evidence to indicate such information on our portal, so we hope that merlen will soon be the first on the sklirua to announce that they are coming out and it is really bright. that is, no one i believed, i think that if you remember what happened six months ago when we introduced them, i will tell you

honestly, and even those employees of the national academy of sciences who introduced them, yes , and leroy merlin is unreal. about exit as you can see they have already declared i think we will hear such statements from many others and natural persons are in your register and if so what are they threatened yes we have natural persons in three categories the first is the so-called lists of shame the second to throw on sanctions the third is already under sanctions, what are the lists of shame? these are citizens of the countries of the sanctions coalition, which are headed by large state or non-state russian enterprises. after the full-scale invasion, we had under 1,000 people there from the very beginning . today, the list has halved , that is, more than half. people. they just wrote statements of dismissal and they cannot move to a new level already from

the lists of shame to sub-sanctions and they did not just write statements of dismissal, they wrote in nazk about what you should pay attention to write leave the resignation letter out of there, and you know, it’s very interesting how they write, they all write in them. almost all letters start the same. i accidentally saw my last name on your portal, i always say, and i’m really curious, how is a citizen of italy or germany there? i accidentally decided to read the portal of nationalities until the evening. and what should i do? i’ll go to the nazk site and look for something else . but if they got into this one, there are some besides that. well, maybe someone will look at it, maybe there is something for the future of it. reputation somehow it will affect. well, i think that the future reputation and opportunities are possible, there are some other nuances, these are people who want to have not just a future, who want to have a future leading large companies. this is professional management that heads large companies that have their own internal

security services. service complex and when you are offered as a candidate for some big position in such a big company , the internal security starts checking you, says they were here in the lists of shame as an official who here you see his photo hangs on me, i can influence what, yes, why should we take a person who is toxic and tangential to the relationship, name one of them , you know the name, not the name. maybe there are ukrainians there . what individual, what kind of oligarchs? among the oligarchs, you know that these are people unknown to ukrainians, why? because these are people who are actually unknown publicly, these are precisely the people who are known in narrow circles, those who are not called out in the media, but who, nevertheless, do more harm than those who are cursed, and for them, in fact, they are lists of shame have a very significant effect, because in this small world

of professional top management, the most important thing is that you have a reputation. and here's what's interesting. we also had several waves there, you know, their dismissal was first dismissed, which is very, very shameful or very, very expensive reputation, then there was a second wave after it became clear that this war would not end in three months or two weeks, as russia promised, and this was the second wave of those who already understood that it would not end, then there was a third wave at the beginning in the 23rd year, they were, you know, the most impudent who waited until they received an annual bonus to be fired. and now we are starting the fourth wave of layoffs, these are those who have already seen what is happening in russia, yes, they already understand that and you know, i would here she said that in the fourth wave it is not even the effect of the tool because the effect of the tool was the first three waves and these are the ones that they saw that in russia already in

the future there is simply no and by staying there they put a cross on their future and they already understand that it is better to resign anyway, let us get a lower salary somewhere, but if we resign, i still expect that these lists of shame, we will bring them to zero in the end . programs, russia is a country without a future and people without a reputation continue to work there. thank you very much for an interesting conversation. there is a zagreb national responsible for the sanctions policy

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