[000:00:00;00] we have long-range weapons, including b saws, about which this has already been officially said. well, we will just attack them little by little with these long-range means. while they are, well , they are brothers, or they will simply surrender. i think that then when we are encircling, well, this is conditional exact, it cannot be called a complete encirclement, there will still be opportunities to supply something by sea, but we remember what the minister of defense ponranik said, and he said that in our country they still do not know how exactly we sunk this cutter of moscow, what in there are us drive these ships away from the crimea, that's why it seems to me to go there, well, i understand that not all of us want to go to the crimea, but we are imprisoned and waiting . i think that even behind the barricades there is a divider. forgive the detachment that will be there and give the people to retreat. and they will not be able to deal with the people who want to surrender into captivity and i think there will be a large number of people who will be any will surrender because they

are intelligent and honorable and that he would thank you very much oleksiy hetman, reserve major of the national guard of ukraine, a russian-ukrainian veteran i will only remind you that if we have already talked about crimea with mr. oleksiy, now we will have less of a military topic, more of a diplomatic one, but just the last escape of russians from crimea was very eloquent, and i think that will be the case even now admiral oktyabrsky when the germans fascist germany surrounded evastopol, they simply put all the admirals and generals on planes and flew to the so-called big land, and leaving all ordinary sailors, civilian military marines and so on, simply left it they were definitely surrounded and

in the end the germans captured evastopol, the story of poplar is also very interesting. i am always so ironic about this, translated from ancient greek, the city is worthy of worship, but the uniqueness of sevastopol is that there was no army in the world that wanted to capture in november and so that she did not succeed in capturing sevastopol, in other words, in the 19th and 20th centuries, everyone wanted to capture sevastopol, everyone successfully captured it. english, german, russian, soviet, and so on and so on, who will also capture sevastopol, but maybe, as mr. hetman said , not by force, but by cunning and entourages, oleksandr krayev, expeditor of the council of foreign policy , ukrainian prism, in touch with us , oleksandr, good health. thank you for

joining us . i thought i was alone at the time of christ's resurrection, i am sitting here and working, but it turns out not only berries and major hetman and kraev expert , in short, it's very nice, mr. oleksandr yes, christ is risen and i have a very important question for you if you understand something from one side, we see a huge it is about ukraine, it is not about ukraine, it is about, well, indirectly, now everything is about ukraine, even about china , it is far away, anyway, the reflection of the echo of ideas to ukraine, but here is the question: china is huge, and china’s huge army in china’s many weapons . well, in short, and nearby is small taiwan and taiwan is somehow more or less calm and

experts, many experts say that in fact taiwan has a very powerful army, they are very to ukraine well, somehow we ran into something else. and there is a lot of things in that country in taiwan in the same form as they used to call it. what is there that they feel calm and say ? well, let's attack, let's see what will come of it, please. in fact, there is good there. understanding what they need to stop and what they need to fight taiwan absolutely clearly understands what it is in terms of the population, in terms of the economy, in terms of the possibility of launching a long-term war, and you also perfectly understand that it will be difficult for it, but at the same time, it also understands its advantages a small area on which there is very little space to land, over which air control must be immediately taken, somehow it is necessary to cross the taiwan strait from here, which is very narrow , very susceptible to storms, and which at the same moment

is absolutely clearly being shot at every meter by the taiwanese. planes that fly towards them even when they are just preparing to take off over mainland china , that is, taiwan is absolutely clearly aware that it will be opposed in what number how exactly what will china apply and each of these points has its own countervailing force, i.e. the peace of taiwan comes first of all from the professionalism of their army, from the quality of their equipment, from their clear understanding of what they have to face. and recently, also from the fact that the americans are very they clearly said that in the case of an attempt to land on taiwan, they will fight together with taiwan, yes, that is, knowledge is power. this reminds me very much of a certain peace of mind of the ukrainians, that is, according to your version, just intelligence knowledge is already half a victory. it

is correct that in modern war, if you see more than the opponent so it means that you win correctly i understood you so absolutely correctly but the second important point is to see more and clearly understand what will happen to have a strategy without a strategy all this vision well good we see what is happening but we don't know what's going on with it to do, and taiwan just shows that constantly follow the movements of your opponent and know every option of what he can do, and that is, be ready for battle even before the battle begins, which is interesting , even the most famous chinese even said in sunzi the warlord and the slain must be defeated before the start of the battle. well, then throw the bridge to ukraine. well, as the experts tell me , i don’t even know. i can talk about it or not . what do i think is possible? i won’t climb there from the inside, but they say that it’s just that

they know the ukrainians from the americans, the english, and so on. in fact , every soldier of the russian army simply sees it all, and even i was told this, i don’t know whether to believe it or not. although you have to believe american intelligence , as experience shows, they cunningly found some a computer or some kind of equipment and they capture data from all the satellites that fly stationary of all kinds, including russian ones, all these satellites they they can steal all the information from a chinese satellite from a russian french one and so on and so on and all this is filmed and supplied i don't know whether it's alkaline or zelenskiy. well, right here at the moment when it happens and they just really see that, excuse the word, that some lieutenant went to uh to pee in the forest and what kind of alkaline is it, too, you know what and and and some

people say that they also know the surname of this lieutenant and where he lives, what are the names of his children and his wife. well, in short, then we know much more than the russians. it turns out to be absolutely true. that is, first of all, we have the information situation thanks to our american partners, we clearly know not just in general terms what is happening, we can conditionally speaking influence each individual russian unit, because we know conditionally what problems it has with supply, who commands it, when it was installed, how does this person work, what does he do, how does he do it, we we know not on paper, but we really know the composition of these units, we know how many kalashnikovs there are conditionally in them for a dozen people. that is, it is an absolutely complete information intelligence and control of the situation. in essence, in a modern war, this is half of the victory, and in fact it is necessary to understand that it is the same information, but about the chinese army, i agree with you here, you can overturn the city because the americans do it themselves, they constantly

say that ukraine and taiwan are a front - this is the front of free democratic states against dictatorships, that is, everything is the same that we know about the russian army, in fact, to a greater extent, the taiwanese also know about the chinese and we see the same approach, we see well, in many ways, we see that taiwan is even learning from the lessons of ukraine, let’s say the last defense orders that taiwan gave to the americans, if i’m not mistaken. it was november last year , they are almost one hundred percent replicating the orders that ukraine gives to the united states of america in the context of air defense and in the context of the rsv and howitzer artillery, that is, the taiwanese clearly understand that they will have to face a very similar enemy and they they are also preparing for africa, from china, from asia to africa , i have this impression after i started to be interested. well, i just started . of course, because there was a coup attempt , i still don't know in sudan, the capital of sudan , something is happening there, and

and somehow i was quite skeptical about the information that wagner is there, prigozhin is there, his ears are sticking out, and i thought that maybe we should elect prigozhin as the secretary general of the united nations . well, because prigozhin is a central african she is a beauty in the republic of madagascar . she is a beauty in ukraine. countries that, well, there are different

countries, africa and africa, yes. for some reason, sudan was not in the category of africa. there is something like that, but there is one that has been fighting there for 25 years. never paid attention or was i making a mistake is this something important and the presence of a beauty there is true and strategic there, russia can get something in that region, but in fact it is difficult to start something here, because in fact the issues are very complex, yes, wagner is there, wagner has his own subsidiaries through which wagner is able to drive away weapons, thereby the best western sanctions wagner is there because essentially during the last coup in 1919 wagner helped the current sudanese military leadership come to power and now essentially we have a battle between those who used to work closely with wagner and by those who used to simply sell arms to wagner, that is, in fact, almost any instability today in the central african states, be it east africa, be it west africa, you will see wagner there , the instability is small, wagner buys

diamonds there, wagner buys oil there, now there is a rebellion in sudan again, wagner bought weapons there and exchanged them for the gold mined by wagner's subsidiary company , that is, in fact. it is necessary to clearly distinguish that this is a separate activity of prigozhina and not so much the politics of russia itself, because, let's say, if we talk about mali, about sudan, about many other countries, it is the same central african republic, they are so normal and did not go beyond the refi to make contact , they did not start helping putin in this invasion, although there, many people promised mercenaries and weapons , the introduction of sanctions, anything.

weapons in developing countries, they set up semi-legal and illegal places for the extraction of diamonds and gold minerals, including, that is, you know the film of the early 2000s and the end of the 90s, the armed baron, this is roughly what prigozhin is doing now, because there a very large part of the film was just about africa and this is what we see now , this is the influence of one, well, let's call him a very stretched businessman who tries to make money on blood and he doesn't care where to make money on it. yes , i watched this movie, and i think that i once looked and mr. prigozhin i think once 25 or maybe 25 is a table book just yes look at the last question look very important but as far as i remember sudan has access to the red sea and how much do foreigners think about it because freedom of navigation for americans is such the main chip and this is an important chip - it's vanity, it's babel, the madepian spillway, the strait is next to the united

arab emirates, the same iran is next to yemin, there's a civil war there, it's shorter, how interesting is it or does it understand what do you think the west is? not just like that, i'm not saying that there is danger there, i think there is one, not even an aircraft carrier, just a little there. the nato shuttle will arrive there and everyone will be overdue. but nevertheless, do they pay attention to these circumstances , the middle east, let's say yes, or the horn of africa is actually addressed, but i would said not in the way we hoped, the thing is that africa has been very purposefully moving into the orbit of chinese influence economically, politically, even militarily for the last four years. payment of the loans that china gave them for the development of this country, they gave china their two largest naval bases or nigeria , which is in such a state of dependence on

chinese loans that if they cannot pay off 70% of the debt within two years, they will have to give all their property to china state property in addition to military bases and embassies, that is, the situation with chinese influence in africa is much more complicated even than the influence of prigozhin’s own armies, therefore the west is really very interested in africa and since the 20th year, we have seen that the western coalition is returning to africa, because if in 2000, from 2010 to 2020, they increasingly actively withdrew their troops and specialists from there, now we see that the west is returning there, and in fact, this is the situation in africa this is also the situation of the ethiopia-egypt conflict, this is the situation of the civil war in ethiopia, where the region of tigran is fighting, they are playing, more precisely, they have been fighting with ethiopia for almost 10 years, and about half a million people have died there. during this time, that is, the west is starting again pay attention to this very slowly. unfortunately, they are deploying their missions, but this region is gaining importance for them again, and i really

hope that your words still somehow manage this influence. and really, well. shuttle 2:3 well, even better, in general, the entire sixth fleet that is there patrolling not far away, he would be able to very radically correct the situation in the region. thank you very much oleksandr kraev, expert of the foreign policy council of ukrainian prism, but i would add only one thing that the language of international communication there in that area in that area of ​​africa is russian, i read a lot some work on this matter that they all graduated from universities named after patrice lumumba in moscow and worked hard in soviet times. and now they are all commanders. and when they conduct negotiations among themselves, it is convenient for them to speak russian because they were neighbors at the faculties of this university, that is, all of them . well, then it was supported by the soviet union

, the national liberation movements were supported , and the american ones were called terrorists, and these terrorists were very often in kyiv and moscow, but not in kyiv anymore, because there was no there was no one to monitor the embassy. well, that's another topic. let's move on. andriy yakovych of the media initiative for human rights. mr. andriy , good health. thank you for finding time for us . christ is risen. and here's what i'd like to ask you, and how are you? what are you doing, these media people? initiative for human rights , what mandate did you draw for yourself so that your mandate is transferred to me on the initiative, this is a public organization

that is engaged in various investigations. status, if we can talk about military prisoners who can be taken on the basis of the third geneva convention, then civilians we call them civilian hostages, although the final terminology has not yet been defined, they have no legal status at all, that is, a large number of people are in russia on specially prepared territories of some, especially residents of the kyiv region was moved to belarus, according to it was some decision possible between the government and they were released special prisons, that is, they separately are in specially specially prepared prisons that were released before this. that is, they are large-scale, that is, they are trying it now. well, let’s see, mr. andriy. that is, are you monitoring whether they are contacting you? could it be third-party initiatives or your own initiative ? do you admit that from the kyiv region or from

khersonsk, some person or people were taken away, do you monitor where they are? where did they end up, in which boot camp or in which camp, or do they just live somewhere there, i don’t know, in rostovych , in chelyabinsk and you all and you monitor it in belarus and in order to later put it all on the table of the court proceedings. is it ultimately yours? it's that simple. here, it's also important to understand what processes are taking place when we're just talking about war crimes, these are crimes that occur during the conduct of hostilities and there are more serious crimes that are planned at the level of the government, that is, war crimes, they can be like access, abuse of authority , let's miss the shelling, it can be accidental with some consequences, but when we talk about

the displacement of civilians, it is not just accidental the phenomenon is due to the directed in order for large-scale agreement to be so correct, i understand, well, there is, yes, we can talk about genocide and crimes against humanity , i am talking about them when someone plans for a goal that is not directly related to military goals, that is , a medal, a task, you are a military goal the main thing is to obtain a military advantage . and what kind of military advantage can we talk about when civilians are moved, it is about other, more serious goals, and so it can be either a manifestation of genocidal policy or crimes against humanity, it is important but look, do you already have some evidence, that is, there are some documents, some negotiations, some testimony, but the testimony is not of ukrainians, of ukrainians who are captured, he will not be objective. yes, he will never say. well

, this one beat me. and this one did not beat me, he will say. but they all my enemies tortured me. but in order to put it on the court table, well, not a judge, but a prosecutor, you need to have these grounds for accusations and evidence that we are seeing a sign of genocide, not yet genocide. i know that this is very difficult to prove, and the westerners also warn experts say listen you there with genocide, not really, not really, don't worry because it's not so easy to prove in court and can be disproved in a higher court in an appeal in cassation and so on, but some crimes against humanity we can already have some documentary evidence that we see what it was what is it vasya pupkin did not torture someone, but there was an order from a senior lieutenant colonel to a colonel from a general that if you come here, you do this and that, you move

there and there you kill the show in everyone's head . there is no ukraine show, only russia. well, we have several tasks first of all, we want to improve the fate of these people, these people are there illegally and they should have normal human rights, at least we should know where they are , because at the moment this situation is being hidden, prisoners of war or civilians. they have the right to contact their relatives with they were contacted by them. they also do not have these rights. the situation is different when you, when these people return, of course, all these evidences are recorded and even from the city where they returned from, let's say from the soviet region or from other regions of russia federation or regions. accordingly, we can already say that somehow it will get there. and how could a person get there if, er , she returned there from there, that is, it cannot

be without a decision of the government or some high leadership that a large number of people were transferred to the history of russia by transport of the russian federation and the purposeful placement of a large number of people in one place. it cannot be one official or investigator who decided to move a large number of people to one room. it is obvious that the powers are not sufficient for the usual a person in an ordinary investigator or some commander who captured these people for this. we need some kind of structure, an institution that will take care of this, even food , transfer, and what can we talk about who can free the territory of the prison under a large number of people, it is obvious that this is a high leadership at the federal levels and here we conclude that this is a planned action that is supported and carried out until now at the level of the high management of the russian

federation, and here we can apply command responsibility, as it was applied to warrants for children, when we talk about the fact that we can bring to justice not only the person who committed the crime, but also the person who did not prevent or manage it, having such an opportunity, and accordingly, it is easy to attack such people, we may not find those who committed this crime are committing and continue to commit, however, we can go to the top management and this is precisely the task that should be set before our country and under the international community, because the children already have a warrant or a civil detainee and there is still no and there is no mechanism for their return . okay, ivan andriy, one more question, uh, technological , again, maybe not at the address, but you can find it, or maybe you have already found it, or i

don’t know any it -specialists who can get into some computers there and have these documents. because when you told me now, i understand your logic, but i just don't know if this logic is enough for legal proceedings. do you understand when he says , how else can a lawyer from russia a will say maybe it was so so so so so and so and when you see some kind of e-mail that you are immediately freed from everyone , send these convicts wherever you want and instead of them the ukrainians will come. you simply know whether there is such and such a work going on by ukrainian, and maybe not only ukrainian , but our allied e-tishniks who climb somewhere and get these evidences and say , oh, please, look here, there is a direct order

, oh, the electronic signature, oh, the general, oh a colonel or a major or a sergeant and here and there and here everything is clear, now we have witnesses from the side of ukrainians who have directly suffered and here, please, also an order from above, that is, there are already options to recover from the decision in favor of ukraine in this legal process , it is simply impossible to make amends well, i understand, uh, i don't know if such attempts are being made, but we must take into account that when we investigate war crimes, that is, we, i mean, investigate crimes against humanity, then all the evidence has an accumulative effect, well, that is, this it is not just that we believe, we assume, and any person is interviewed after his return, and accordingly, such testimonies are gathered , so many prisoners, so many interrogations . that is, we can not only talk about our assumption, this is direct testimony, and over time, the testimony becomes more and more and more because we can later receive

testimony for the first time. who took the people in the first place, how they were moved, and i do not rule out that there will be testimony as to how they were kept there, even if the conditions of receipt are such that people are not actually shown the faces of those who receive them, even when all kinds of examinations force them to stand up. well, the so-called swallow , where the head goes down, the hands go up, and in fact a person does not see his cats, but this does not mean that later all these evidences will not be found, including maybe there will be some showers and as we can see from the recent events, i do not rule out that they may have such showers. however , we can not only be satisfied with showers when when these circumstances will prove and all cumulatively with different evidence and there are enough of them it is very useful for me. thank you for what you told me. i didn't know about it. i didn't know about the legal side

. i didn't know if there was any, because give hints that the russians themselves don't like what they are doing with the displacement. well, because we always know that there is a good investigator. there is a bad investigator. maybe someone has a problem, but there are facebook users who flee to europe and so on. we can say that there are such people, without naming people who. it already exists or not, i am here, we are yes, media initiatives talked with a prisoner of war who had returned and he gave evidence that one supervisor constantly turned to him to and to others on you and another when they were standing in a swallow like that, he showed his well, not that it was loyalty, but that he allowed legs a little

put it closer, don't pull it on a twine, but put it a little closer, and people everywhere are different - there are mostly bad attitudes, especially at first, when you get caught, even when you get caught, they have a ritual of getting caught , first they beat 8 people, they beat one person which is actually on its knees and this applies to everyone, but even in such a hell there are people who do it a little less and try to demonstrate it secretly yes the store to your question yes this is such a zone i know you are telling me i remember i have enough i apologize. i was young, and i knew many soviet prisoners , not only political prisoners, but i knew a lot of them.

where there are already adults there is a little bit of other things, but they were always beaten as a matter of law, you simply cannot exist in a zone where you have not been beaten and a lot of what you say is very, very similar to the very simple zekiv zekiv options . thank you very much andriy yakovlev, lawyer media initiative for human rights would be very interesting to me. i even learned something new, this doesn't happen often to me . watch this film about the lviv shrine of ugtsu, the church of the most holy theotokos, mistress of ukraine this is what we will continue to watch with you for 20 minutes and then for five minutes watch advertising that maybe we will earn some money and then espresso employees will earn some salary and