[000:00:00;00] anyway, there are one to ten chances , because as vadim correctly said, only after the fact. in europe, because now the germans are expelling 20 russians. and if we take into account that after the 14th year, this is not the first and not the second case that hundreds of people from europe and the americans were deported there, and i think to myself that these are probably intelligence agents of the bradyim from the 1920s. -15 exactly spies. in our country, in general, the intelligence network of the russian federation is torpedoed in general. it holds up for the most part. now

, in isolated cases, there are people who are of no importance to diplomacy. but most of them, after all, using diplomatic immunity, engage in activities that with this immunity e- no, no, it cannot be used in this way, and the russians have already become arrogant. they are not just there , somehow they are already there, they use twitter to the fullest for propaganda, they drive there almost there, no with documents, so, uh, they already behave with the topo - that is, they were very daring, such activity is incompatible with diplomatic status, but despite this, they use other people very quickly, but like, because in europe it is becoming more and more difficult for them to get fake documents , they use latin america in the last few cases of infiltration of the international criminal court into the nato headquarters there, the organization of a boutique there and so on, these are all documents that are somehow sewn up there

to cover up in latin america. people who arrive in europe and try to get a job in e-e syntenka at the university in various institutions who have documents there , in fact, cover documents of origin from latin america, where they are much easier to obtain and more difficult to check. thank you, vadym chernysh, minister of ukraine for issues of occupied territories and internal displaced persons aged 16 to 19, i recommend him to follow mr. vadim, not like spies follow, but simply what he says , i answer, if i have any authority i say that this is always very high-quality information. well, let's talk more widely. not only about intelligence and diplomacy, but also about international relations. you, mah, the executive director of the institute of world politics, are in touch with us . good health, yevgeny. thank you for finding

us. time thank you very much. glory to ukraine. look at the first question. we are trying to illuminate it somehow. well, to illuminate it for the people until nothing comes out. maybe you have some uh, some mental exercises that will allow us. here is xijinping and macron, and there are such rumors that they agreed on something there, some kind of peace plan. we saw only a dotted line of this peace plan from this jinping from the macro, we just suspect that he is constantly doing something that not everyone likes in ukraine. to discuss with them is a plan that can be put on the table for someone. i am not telling zelensky, but i am saying to put it on the table, let's say on the old story 10 to the white house in brussels and these forces will start to

put pressure on ukraine to say, let's do this, let 's do it and how are the sheep, how is it the russian says volk and the scythians wished that ukraine would be well and the katsaps did not lose face and the whole world clapped their hands, well, the options of this plan are in principle clear and russia is pushing them in a variety of ways - this is an immediate cessation of war, an immediate cessation of hostilities, but the truce is solid 38 parallels carrots in korean, according to various things , the struggle for the lifting of sanctions from russia and the permission for russian diplomats to actively act because you i think have repeatedly seen how monstrous the buildings of russian embassies in various european countries look

sometimes it can be almost a whole quarter, well, a quarter, as a rule, when there are still residential buildings there, well, it’s just that, as a rule, the former soviet missions and functions are the same as they were then, but what is important here is the search for understanding between countries from two social systems and two i would say levels of perception , because china is communist, in principle , if it does not plan to bury capitalism, it plans to become an economic leader france, well , the homeland of many revolutions with the pension reform that became for emmanuel macron such a serious test that under a certain development of events, after the end of his presidential term, he may simply find himself on a political pension, and he certainly

does not want that. of course, since last year, we have seen how many different politicians want to be peacekeepers, and this year we see that they want to be peacekeepers, there is nothing surprising in this, because the russian-ukrainian war is extremely large-scale, and the reconciliation of achieving peace in this war and the efforts that are effective, let's say hypothetically, with the achievement of peace in this war looks to me quite interesting enough, so i think there is a certain potential of interest, but i don't think that macron's anti-americanism will be more than, well, you know, such a spring cold, because everything

after all, this is not the same situation and he should realize that what is happening in the modern world is no less a challenge for france than for other nato countries . we just also have to understand that the events in ukraine will not always be on the front pages, they will not always be in the headlines world news and we have to pay a lot of attention to spreading our own point of view and actually talk about what is happening in ukraine today and prove our opinion to the whole world, mr. yevgeny, adding to your words, there are not such russian embassies that are more than one quarter. i, for example when i was in iran, i then understood why in 1943 the negotiations in tehran took place there. it is a few blocks away. it is just a city within a city behind a fence. i think

it is 6-7 m tall there. well, that is why it was clear that it was cozy stalin, but the question is not therefore but look, if the development of events continues like this, then we can imagine the world of the future. something like capitalism and socialism, that is, not in the sense of a socio-political structure, but in the sense that there will be some countries china plus iran plus there cuba, venezuela plus north korea and those connected with it not shypilov, but let's say argentina brazil. by the way, shypilov said that if someone does not behave, the minister of foreign affairs of the ussr, he is not for nothing, so i mentioned him, that 's all, uh, it will be like a socialist camp led by uh, from russia. well, then with the soviet union

now headed by the people's republic of china and there will be a civilized world if europe is like uh south korea japan well, that's it, everyone understands what i'm talking about canada , the united states and the struggle for influence in africa , latin america between the first power and the second power and that's ot if the future is in the future - the future of mr. evgeny's globe, this is an interesting logic of events. i am interested in where ukraine will be in this paradigm, because we must realize that ukraine is currently waging a war for independence and a war for the right to be with the civilized world. two components that, in my opinion, are basic and should be clear to everyone , that is, what you know in the soviet union and you

remember . these are completely understandable things and we are really fighting for our independence and for the right to be more active in this world, to put it simply, we must clearly realize that russian-ukrainian is global because the involvement, well, on the one hand, the scale huge, truly the largest war in the 21st century, and on the other hand, it is not a ratio, not a ratio of the rammstein 60 plus coalition of countries, but in russia - a real ally, who said that he is an ally, only lukashenko, from under whose mustache more praise for putin flies than

from under the sand university, i.e. if they were switched places, then in principle no one would notice and russia usually jumps out of their pants to show that the war is a world war, so that it also drags it into it well, in fact, there are a lot of different things , i would just say a lot of things on the ideological level, respectively, for us there are very a serious challenge is for ukraine to constantly talk about what is happening to it and for it to have arguments to speak . we are suffering huge losses we are suffering huge

losses but we are a democratic country we are completing the process of forming a political nation and we are harming well we regret that we are the last among the last in our region i think that such similar processes are not according to our models, but similar ones are ongoing in belarus, moldova, and all others. it seems to me that the process of forming a political nation has already ended, well, in any case, in the balto black sea region, we have this process going on, and victory is vital for us , and this conclusion should be nationwide as a telethon, the only news, you understand. okay, mr. yevgeny, since you, i do not know who the journalists are , the expert, but since you said, i am interested in where ukraine is, everyone is in this schedule, so i will tell you

answered and you actually took me off my tongue at the end of your answer that the last car is the impression that ukraine is making it, i hope to jump into the last car, why do i think that this is the last car because after the ukrainian , more precisely russian-ukrainian war and all this construction that arose thanks to to putin, america and europe will really focus on the people's republic of china as a real opponent, so commensurate, oh, i'm already commensurate, because russia is not a factor. it can only rattle its weapons and advance somewhere there for ukraine in some small volumes and therefore the world will get tired of such a bright war , the world is poor because the aid is still 55 billion, russia's military budget is 60 billion well , just for comparison, the total volume

of what ukraine received is 55 billion. that is, this not for nothing either, it’s certainly trifles, the american budget is 800 billion, but it’s all the same, well, it can get boring in some way, and that’s why i personally think that this is the last war because of the fatigue of world society, and the civilized world will start thinking about what to do with china. what to do with this force that would be organized, that's why i think that in ukraine, in order not to cast spells, they had time to at least jump into the last wagon of civilization, what do you say? i hope so. another question is what price do we pay for this? it's just that here we know we see that the fairy tale about lost time is becoming a reality and it is not just scary fairy tales, but fairy tales are scary in their consequences, and i did not accidentally say about the war for independence

, which began in the 31st year of independence, and it is no longer a hybrid, it is full-scale of all sides and i don't know people in ukraine who don't are aware that there is a war, there is a unit of people who say , well, it is the freemasons of the world behind the scenes and so on, but it seems to me that the consolidation of ukrainians is happening and it is happening quite realistically and we should move in this sense and our efforts with you other people who understand this and we have to be united in our desire to live in a civilized world even if we have to become in this sense the humus for the next generations, but the humus for the next generations of non-independent ukraine

, let's not forget that now we are already in of the longest period of independence a p yevgeny the connection excuse me, please, the connection is interrupted, i thank ivan magda e-e the executive director of the institute of world politics and here we will go to the courts now, but the last thing i want to say is a lot of ukrainians i don't i mean now, yevgeny, i just know that there are discussions that it seems that such a good european life fell into the hands of europeans. just like that, don't forget the middle ages. war

seven-year wars, 30-year wars, complete extermination, we will also add smallpox , cholera, and so on. and now ukraine is a gift of blood. million, he and britain after the conquest and germany and italy and all-all-all the countries of europe that remained, now they remained because of blood. therefore, now ukraine is forced to pay such a price, but do not think that this price is unique to ukraine, they paid a lot, well, all countries europe somehow paid for its own independence andriy veshelovsky diplomat ambassador of ukraine in sudan and egypt from two to five years representative of ukraine came from 8 to 10 years good health mr. andriy , it's nice to see you thank you for volunteering to

meet with us on saturday evening and how about you are you following the situation in sudan? are you, er, different? by the way, the sudan of today is different from the sudan. when you were there as an ambassador. well, i think you were not in sudan, but more in cairo, and in the house on raids, because diplomats are always elected there where at least some well, some life is a civilized self i think that khatun - it is very far from civilization. please tell mr. andriy cardboard. it is very far from civilization. i don't think that it has changed significantly . well, it has changed economically outwardly and in spots. well, let's say in sudan in 2002, i was the first ukrainian ambassador to sudan and in 2002

year there was only one building with 12 floors, now there are 10 or maybe 20 of them, and they are only 12, in addition to that , the population of the country has almost doubled during this time. catastrophically fast kenya me too i was also an ambassador there, and i went to sudan several times and handed over my poems and certificates to the deceased, whose car was deposed in the 19th year. you know, at one time , i gave a favor to the president to everyone in baraka, who was also deposed. i regret that i never gave it to the russian president. i think you are doomed. you bought a passport. i need to urgently remember what kuleb was thinking. i ask myself

, well, probably no one has had such interesting past affairs. and what was sudan at that time? south sudan is still the only one the sudanese belonged to him, but it was clear that he would not belong to him, you see, the egyptians once called this country albinard . where is it? what does the country of black countries mean, they themselves were eh . let's put it this way. there is south sudan, it's not the groids, it's a different race, and that's exactly why it split off, and the british once told sudan in the only sudan that it's not necessary, don't rush there, let them live their lives, let it be scotland, autono, whatever they want, they didn't listen and here was the result of a 15-year civil er civil war and in the end the division of sudan

lives on two three er sources, the first is of course the oil that is mainly located in southern sudan, but southern sudan is landlocked and that's why the only colossal oil pipeline goes through sudan and big money is paid for it, this is one source, the second source is gold that is mined in sudan, and gold is mainly bought by russia, and they are helped by those who help them, wagner and others like them and their like-minded people, let's call it that and the third source - you know this is agriculture, sudan is a unique country in africa . it has both water and heat. in egypt, it is possible, for example, there is also heat , but there is no water, and there is also no water in libya , there is no water in algeria in all of north africa, and in south africa there is er, the climatic conditions are completely different here, fertile land, water and heat, and this is

the third source of sudan’s income. well, the source of the court’s negatives, well, these are regimes that replace one another, which are largely one of the most backward in the world in terms of er development, you can’t say it is impossible to say that the population has fallen behind the population is kind of uh, well, as they say, wrong, bad. by the way, the british in sudan had higher education, organized and beautiful. i remember i came from egypt for the first time to sudan. so on and so on eh. unfortunately, the smaller base did everything to expel english teachers and transfer from english to arabic , it seems, in the 17th year of teaching, and of course

now there will be a level of both teaching and teachers and the language is worse, that is, it is a kind of very country and both negative and positive , the doors open, i remember my first arrival plus 43 eh , it seems it was eh, or december or january , something like that, and it’s called that, and this story is gold, she jumped at me yesterday i would say because i was looking, yes, agriculture, yes, water. i'm just looking at the map , the upper reaches of the niva, the nile is shorter there , the rivers are really dark, yes, and there is an exit to the red sea and, that is, to world trade all this is clear on the one hand on the other hand the maddening poverty as far as i am concerned i understand and you confirm. if it was 20 years ago or there was not a 15-story house, it does not speak of

wealth, terrible poverty and the presence of gold , that is, in a normal person, if there is such an association. if there is gold somewhere, then it cannot be near such a poor country or there is really a lot of gold there and is there really some redistribution of money from the oil of the village lord and where so that people still live on $2 a day, that is, on a maximum of $60 a month , they all live on $2 a day it is true, it can be on one and a half - is it really there? there is so much gold, no one will tell geology, they will not reveal it there. well, as far as i remember, it was not considered that much, it is not klondike number two, but the problem is that these resources and their exit to the outside are separated

from the lives of er citizens in principle that is, these are narrow er paths this is the oil that goes through a large highway it is narrow to the bed ex-territorial and the gold er mines are extractive er it is gold well no no no that's about which is said in the bible in the land of nuba, and this is also about king solomon, but somewhere about that, actually, there are many legends about, uh, nubian gold originates uh, it’s ships , and the third one, we say agriculture , so it’s in general, it’s already a commodity now, but uh, it’s centralized, dealers, well, big companies, let’s say they are taken and taken somewhere

people stay where they stay, remain not involved in the outside world, let's say let's call it that, the religious factor also plays a role here to some extent . you see, i worked in arab countries and heard from many somewhere. he called me i gave this and this is mine and he was given this nine-story building and a mercedes he got it from allah but we all children can and accordingly we cannot be offended by our father why yes why not and when the wagners appear they i am not talking now specifically about sudan, we know little about the proceedings in sudan, we know a lot about it in chad, there are few in southern libya, there are a few in other countries

, and they are breaking this uh paradigm, they are breaking this established order, they say you kill , it's normal, why don't you kill, i kill you already see him alive and healthy and i even have more, they heard that the patriarchal region is being destroyed and it is starting, and donbas p. andriy, the last question we literally have a couple of minutes, but is the situation in sudan worth the attention of european countries? the possibility of building a russian base there, and then it is a danger to world trade

. straits, straits, problems, er, djibouti base, is it possible or impossible, the chinese base, in short, there may be such and such a problem, everything is understandable , what do you say, be it, i ’m already , the american base is big, there is a smaller one. sea ​​provision, these sworn friends will, uh, mutually protect the sea and the strait and their tanks, and so on, this is the first, the second, is it worth interfering, is it worth interfering for the simple reason that a is 50 million people. if things get bad, they will run somewhere and run they are partly to the sea. but many will run to egypt and from egypt to europe. where will they run to europe? it is the second and the third next to what the

small ones are next to. it seems to me that the british, the former colonizers, and the americans are doing the right thing, those who helped south sudan become an independent state and have a significant influence on the region , and i think that the chinese are also interested in this, because the main buyers of sudanese oil are the ones who control the oil pipeline they are the ones, and when you buy something in a sudanese store, uh, eight out of ten it will be chinese, 2 out of 10 it will be turkish , and in this way, those and the second and the third are very interested, and i think that's why we see , forgive me, i don't want to to say that 400 dead people is not enough, but 400 dead people after a week of war between the two strongest and military groups in such a huge

country is very little, in fact, it is a small-arms weapon . that conflict i would like my words because they got into the ear, it’s generally local and probably everyone interested , including the chinese people’s republic of china, will do everything possible to prevent him from going outside the capital, even if you are fooled, this is a city, uh, a satellite on the other side of the nile from the cardboard, and even there there are no battles so far, only a house. thank you very much. andriy veshelovskyi, a diplomat for the forces of ukraine in sudan, egypt from the age of two to five and the representative of ukraine to the european union from the 8th to the 10th years was with us. we will definitely continue, but not immediately, but only after iryna koval, who i will tell you now what is happening in ukraine and in the world, mrs. iryna, please