[000:00:00;00] of german politicians, this is federal chancellor adenauer, who was the first chancellor and created a de facto democratic, western, capitalist , open, er, free germany, and the second person is gel murkoel, the one who united germany and er, that means he invested in the er totalitarian the dictatorial regime of eastern communist germany has ended, so now it means that merculosis is rubbing off between them. and this award caused great indignation in germany, not in the majority of people, but in many of those who follow merkel's negative role in central eastern europe and there were such voices that this is frank-walter steinbeier, what does it mean, uh, it's profitable, that on this, of course, steinmeier's formula rewards the dead , that georgia and ukraine were banned from joining nato

, and it looks very ugly, at the same time, it must be understood that merkel's criticism, after all, remains professionally limited criticism of this bubble of people who understand central-eastern europe and who follow the political processes there . germans, germans, their attitude towards merkel. i think that they have not changed much, at least because they do not look so deeply into budapest themselves there is the role of merkel, the minsk process and and and and and this pilot is too professional and they don’t look so deep, so i think that globally in germany the attitude to death has not changed much because of the war , that is, of course it has become more negative, but it is not radically, but in the groin, bulba, it’s like that towards merkel , the attitude has changed a lot to a negative peak. well , i can say, let’s say, i treated her quite

normally, supporting her for two terms , when she looked like that, comparing what separately with schroeder, who was so luxurious luxurious, because it means that he was fond of these russian things, so the american also looked restrained, calm , she refused all these signs, which means corruption and everything. the government has a negative attitude towards the interests of the countries of central and eastern europe, they came to the fore only in the third and fourth term . chancellor or chancellor unlimited amount of time if your facts win uh well then here is the question before that chastity has become something in the last terms or it has always been like that well just speculate thank you sergey

, an honest german political scientist was with us thank you very much for responding on sunday and we are moving to the churches, because oleg turii, the director of the institute of church history of the ukrainian catholic university, is with us now, i hope he will be in touch, if he is, we will talk with him, if not, listen to me oleg is already there, thank you for finding it for us time thank you very much look i have a very simple and to me a very difficult question for you, but you know it's easier for me now because i'm a journalist what did i think up in my head, what question should you answer the poor guy as far as i understand, ukrainian society is divided into three large groups regarding the attitude to of the moscow patriarchate. some say it should be completely banned immediately, the second say

leave it alone, it will somehow dry out by itself, and the third say it is necessary to promote the transition of communities, the transition of people , the transition of the priesthood to the orthodox church of ukraine very gently, without pushing, very persuasively, somehow, which option do you see would be the best, because you and i know that in the history of mankind , religious wars have been very bloody and very long, and some are still not finished finally p oleg thank you very much for the invitation, mr. mykola, and thank you also for the question

, on the one hand, it is difficult on the other hand , it is true. so also in matters of religion eh it is necessary for this law to work so that the current legislation works. i myself am a historian, not a futurologist. obviously, it is very difficult for me to make any predictions, but actually as a historian, i want to say that any attempts in the past that there was no power to change, so to speak, the confessional situation or religious so to speak, the religious landscape in the territory of ukraine in one direction or another, establishing the monopoly of this or that church or opposing some church, sooner or later turned into more serious conflicts and big problems both for the opposed church and for the state power, therefore, in these and these that we have today, first of all, i would not say that the whole society is directly divided like that, you know , a large part of our society is not very oriented in matters of religion, they

usually express their opinion, just like about the flights of martians or some other things well, but you know, in religious matters, we should act as if the two main two main players are the religious communities themselves. to adhere to the principle of freedom of religion, this is the most important, the most important principle, which, on the other hand, also provides for the equality of churches , we have a situation of war, it is obvious that this situation makes its own corrections, it is obvious that it reveals those suppressed problems that stretch back to the russian imperial inherited soviet times, and in this precisely there is a problem with the church that we call the church associated with the moscow patriarchate, in this regard it has always enjoyed

a certain monopoly during these centuries and had a special status and did not count very often with other communities, considering itself the only correct one, and now this situation is changing, it is changing , it is objectively obvious that there are excesses that do not want them to happen. security, including through the instrumentalization of religion for the purposes of the aggressor country, so that they are not used and, so to speak , cut to the root any attempts or any criminal actions of people, no matter who they are, this is mine so to speak, a recipe, and how it should be implemented is even decided by those who deal with it, mr. oleg, but look at one more such question, because we still touch the russian orthodox church of the kyiv moscow patriarchate in one way or another, what

perspective, what fate can you imagine for this church because well, i understand the middle ages. well, i'm a historian by education. i didn't study very well at the university, so i can't say that i understand something there, but something tells me maybe individual lectures where i didn't skip something my professors also said it was reasonable. they say that in the middle ages , too, under the cover of peace, under the cover of something good, there were also christ's campaigns and murders, and so on. and so on. white that is, if it is written in religious books that in general war is bad and abomination is good, then no matter how religious the people try to say, yes, it is true

, we do not need to fight, we need to live in peace, and here the leaders of the russian church say exactly the opposite, they say that no need it is necessary to kill ukrainians, fight against ukrainians, it is necessary to ban all-ukrainian, that is, which is in complete contradiction with the postulates of the foundations of the christian religion, if we take into account that the moscow patriarchate is, after all, a christian religion , and it would be tolerated by the russian authorities, as i think by the population well, a large part of this population, but this one. it seems to me that some kind of problem may arise here, what do you say , it will just end and the russians will forget, they will say, well, we were wrong, well, as always, well, here we are, here we were wrong.

in general, in principle, everything went well, keep praying, that’s how they taught what a church can be , which undermines the foundations, well, look, let’s divide. the russian orthodox church does not have a ukrainian orthodox church, which, according to our religious experts, remains connected to the moscow patriarchate. well, in the end, we see this in many examples, it remains. another question - is it really the russian orthodox church in russia itself and its status, so it is not that it is hiding something, you know, is it somehow trying to hide its true role , at least and after all, since the collapse of the soviet union, this is exactly the institution that survived from the former so-called soviet past, moreover, which carries within itself a part of this imperial heritage

, appealing to the so-called triune holy russia and other e-e monarchical imperial slogans and which smoothly, so to speak, itself offered to the russian authorities in the times yeltsin that it is ready to play the role of a new ideological pillar of the russian state, and during putin's time it also became a tool, a direct tool of what he called the restoration , so to speak, of historical justice . mobilization resources, so to speak, without having any other ideology, this and the logic of the russian world or orthodox civilization was formed, which is actually built on that, on a strange mixture, so to speak, a combination

culture of tsar father and joseph visarionovich, who was the creator of the canonical territory of this church, it is clear that the government could not refuse such services, moreover , the government is comfortable having such a church, which is a manual church, and my basic question is, do you know how much this institution called the moscow patriarchate is the russian orthodox church really remains a church, as for me it is more reminiscent, so to speak, of the ideological department of the modern presidential administration, so of course the life of the church and its influences should to be in ukraine , uh, it’s not that limited. and the roots and its ideology

. olezhe. department well, it is difficult for me to imagine a simple russian person, it does not matter who will go not to the church, but to the ideological department, that is, something must happen to the church so that it either completely reincarnates. i do not know how it is done, or is it at all possible or there have been such cases in the history of mankind that some part of the universal church suddenly committed a terrible crime and then said oh, i changed my mind, now i will be good to the russian church, bad i already was, now i will be good, that there is a russian church in russia, well, look, i can say that, i'm already here i will appeal to you as a historian and to certain historical parallels here , a parallel with what happened in the russian empire on the eve of the first world war and

after this, so to speak, in this series of the revolution and the october coup, so we can put a simple and armor on ourselves, so who created this bolshevik revolution, who destroyed these churches that were destroyed there, who killed the bishops and priests, these were the same orthodox russians. so to speak, they do not really have a deeply rooted and practiced faith, and this is the problem of this church that it relies more on an alliance with the state power to serve this power historically than on working with its own people to lead them to salvation is to bring up in him some virtues, so to speak, which are characteristic of a person in general, and even more so for a christian, and we have no illusions, you know that in russia there is already a very pious orthodox people, according to all the sociological surveys that were conducted there before this phase of the war, the percentage of people who

more or less regularly, that is, they visit the church every sunday, there were 3-4 people there. i think there are many more people who like beer or other drinks. so, you understand that , in fact, there is a big question to what extent this church fulfills which function it is supposed to fulfill this is the church ukraine has, just to make it clear, ukraine has a completely different situation precisely because historically we have different religious communities that every smallest village had its own church, often two and not sometimes even three, and each and every corner of the village competed to make it better and bigger and so on, these are already other ukrainian excesses, so to speak, but they at least demonstrate that people, if devoted, are connected to the church; moreover, in our country, churches are rather a part of civil society and not a structure of power, so to speak, we do not have ruling church, therefore, the problem of the russian church is the same as that of the russian government, that is, tyranny and despotism, that is, a vertical method

, an imperial method of management, moreover, these two components, so to speak, have merged into one, and they are still trying to build some kind of all-russian people, this is, again, not a new thesis and build your new empire on this. i think that its end will be the same as the previous one . olezhe is not yet ready to return to ukraine, is it necessary or worth it or is it necessary to focus on counter-propaganda, let's say, my colleagues have their mothers and fathers and they tell very simple things, and these colleagues are from volyn, from galicia , well, they came from volyn, after all, galicia is greek-catholic here, and the situation is a little different . and when they are from volyn, they say this: my mother goes to the moscow patriarchate she's been going since she was a child. what you just said is that this is a club, apart from other things. it's a club. we

're going to ask . what's there on sunday ? normal with cross-country skiing people of different men and women who live here, and they probably don't even really understand that this is a russian church, because maybe that local priest there spoke ukrainian all his life . at least with them, and they say , let's convince them to listen to this muscovite, where is he, what kind of muscovite is it? i know peter, where is peter here all my life, i remember him from childhood , now he is a priest and he has never offended anyone, and we collect money for the ukrainian army and mourn the ukrainian soldiers who died and so on, it is not so simple story to come and say do you know

they are all enemies oh no oh not all of them far from all of them are enemies and on the contrary it is not that they are friends but just standing shoulder to shoulder what to do well that is a very good question and just right i would like to just clarify what when i said about the club, that's what i meant. i'd rather say something else. i was comparing the number. the church obviously has its own purely spiritual aspects, religious aspects of its association and functioning, but it is inseparable from society, we must understand this, and especially our people feel it when they leave the borders of ukraine, and it has always been so when the church serves as a center for them, you know, of public social life, and in the end, you know, if you look carefully, in the same galicia that you mentioned since the 19th century, the church performed this role, and education and sports clubs and fire brigades and whatever and so on, in the absence of a state, it so happened that in ukraine the church fulfilled this social role and continues to fulfill to some extent what i said just

pointing to its such, so to speak, rather the social dimension of existence, other. the second part of your question is much more serious and important. it is, so to speak, the body of this church . these are specific communities, and it is obvious that not only in volyn, but let's take kyiv oblast , let's take sumy oblast , zhytomyr oblast . citizens are not just ukrainian citizens, conscious ukrainians. i am convinced that a significant part of the clergy is like that, and it is simply a matter of understanding that these decades of complete neglect of normal educational let's say the policy of indoctrination that continued, including through our television channels, through various films , through all sorts of rumors and other things, through the infusion of finances and the like, well, you will understand, it cannot

be changed today for tomorrow, there is another dimension that i know very well in galicia you said that galicia is greek-catholic, which is not exactly the case in galicia, despite the fact that historically the greek-catholic church dominated here, there are nevertheless many orthodox parishes , orthodox parishes have not disappeared. people who wanted to be orthodox. they remained orthodox mostly because they trusted that priest who had been here since the time of the soviet union . we have we have similar processes not in the middle ages we had a similar situation in the 90s in western ukraine after the withdrawal of the greek catholic church after the formation of the ukrainian autocephalous

orthodox church key to the answer question on the question of the fate of the ukrainian orthodox church and the moscow patriarchate lies in it, the question itself is to isolate those who are direct enemies and criminals one way or another and to explain to those who can be explained that there are adequate people and fanatics will sooner or later simply turn into a sect as it happens with all phonetic movements, which is very interesting. sorry, sorry, we are talking about sports if you did not mention that the church organizes sports competitions, which is nice , and we are also organizing some kind of sports discussion. oleg turii - director of the institute of church history of the ukrainian catholic university was in touch with us and now ihor zhdanov, i hope he did not run away while i was here talking about church affairs project manager information defense fund open policy minister of youth and sports of ukraine 14-19 years old ihor zhdanov i hope now with

it will appear if it doesn't appear , but technically we have a problem, yes. i will immediately tell you what oleg forgot to tell about the pro-russian church and how they are on the vocerklyonnye russians. i got to the cathedral of christ the lord in jerusalem. i obliged the russians to do this for the rest of their lives and explained it to all russians for a long time. when they went there, they had to buy a skirt or wrap something somewhere. well, this is the church . this is where jesus died. well, there is a stone there where he lay. well, in short, this is such an important story. well, one girl is young enough. she, well, to say that she was dressed, dressed, too , not quite, is possible. she had a super short skirt , super big necklines, and in principle, it somehow

slipped through, not the same as in the church, but just, well, people could understand such a she doesn't have a person but when she hit the stone where jesus was lying, her head began to beat, and the skirt rose even higher, and the whole church, where the fire just came down , look, no one looked, everyone turned away , everyone was ashamed, everyone hit it on the face , something like to my face now and this is what i remember and she told lucy i share and dieselyuska go here right here right there and i was lying down go here running this is what i remember about the orthodox russians ihor zhdanov project manager information defense of the fund is open

politics, minister of youth and sports of ukraine, 14-19 years old. thank you, mr. game, for finding time for us. we only have 10 minutes to talk , even less. look where the problem is that we discussed last time . after that, i also met with many people. many on the air with one two and off the air i spoke with many and if everyone was in or i still did not understand where we are or whether it is possible to count on the fact that a ukrainian gymnasiums will go to the olympics but the russian belarusian ones will not go because this is the statement in which we discussed that the ukrainians will not go where the russians are. so now we are 100% dependent on the russians , the belarusians, something has changed, there is some kind of sports diplomacy that persuades our friends in europe not to go.

er, the situation is extremely dangerous for us because, for example, i read a post by yury kopatka, one of the heads of the federation of our wrestling. russians who are 15 and 17 years old there before participating in international competitions, you understand that today is 3:17 p.m. tomorrow is something else and in general, this means that we cannot participate in international competitions uh, including qualifying license for the olympics so and so and so and so the situation is extremely dangerous. i don't see any diplomatic efforts on the contrary. yesterday i read a statement from one of the british who said that the ukrainians have overstepped the mark here and we will appeal to them to change their position. what does this

show that it shows that even representatives britain, which is our current ally, opposes such a decision. i believe that it is wrong, but if it has already been adopted and they want to change it, then it is necessary, i emphasize once again, to create a sports anti-russian coalition and work directly with the federations even then, and there is someone like that iron friends, iron sports or cast iron sports friends of ukraine, there are such. well, because if russia and belarus get there, and if they don't, let's say five countries, even five, that 's already the problem. well, the problem for the international olympic movement, look, there is absolutely iron friends are the countries of the balts, poland, and how strange it is that i am the mayor of paris, or how

long ago i take an iron position regarding the rejection of the russians at the olympics in 2024, that is, the basis and positions of the minister and the head of the national olympic committee . in kuleb's ministry of foreign affairs, they are doing well there, and they work in this direction, but it is not their main, main direction of work, and why is this mr. gutsai like that ? why is he so short-sighted? why is he so pseudo-patriotic? friends he he he was at a meeting with the russians or in soviet times or why is he paid by some russian espionage organization or is he an idiot well why well it’s difficult here i’ll evaluate the following more than anything else and i’ll say yes

i don’t believe the pro-espionage stuff there and that and that too i’ll say so it's not a song hat is a person who, well, it's not for her to be a minister, especially in times like these, it's not a professional, unprofessional, incompetent person , there are enough other people who would hold this position with dignity, but such people exist , that is, relatively speaking, in the modern circle among sports officials there are people who are also patriots and diplomats and intelligent people who understand that there are options for action that are absolutely unprofitable and that why someone or something given, relatively speaking, for patriotic reasons , the russians do not need to go anywhere, but there are a million ukrainian

athletes who were preparing e- we have been doing this for ten years and here someone comes and says that you will not go to them. well, i agree with you that there are such people, especially if they are in the modern ministry . act yes yes yes yes popular effect as far as i know, mr. gutsai applied for his resignation because he really wants to go directly to work there . they are looking for a replacement for him in the national olympic committee, but such a replacement has not yet been found, as far as i know, the problem is not only in competence there is also professionalism, and one more thing this person should impose on the political power of the president, uh, well, this is one of the requirements, well , probably, she understood for me, but for me , the main thing is not that this person is professional, competent, patriotic, ok

thank you, ruzhdanov, project manager, information defense of the fund, open policy, minister of youth and sports of ukraine , from the 14th to the 19th years , my part of the program is actually ending. in order not to leave them after all the new one should not be anyway and the latest news only on espresso tv and only from hanna eva melnyk her word thank you i will tell you about the most important thing together with the news team, in particular about how rammstein collects football players and i will start this issue with the situation in the kherson region, stay with us at least three civilians were injured , the russians struck the belozersk and