[000:00:00;00] this is what happened and unfortunately it will happen for a certain time that it will suppress ukrainianness in ukraine and the desire to resist the aggressor, but i am not convinced about this. i am not convinced of the first and second in addition to the trauma-mental damage caused by the war , that is, damage to the mentality, it is necessary to distinguish and you know such elementary constructions, that is, if it is about the birth of a child after the war, after the family is reunited and i hope you will be reunited in ukraine, but still count on the baby boom

i would not because today the means contraception is very effective - effective enough, widespread enough, and people will think that we can provide newborn babies with the standard of living that we aspire to or not, if not, then it is possible to postpone the birth of a child, that is why i do not believe in baby cougars. and as for the mortality of the population, well, definitely during for a certain period, it was known how long we will feel. do you know the echoes of war, the echoes of these stresses, the echoes of traumas , the echoes of the fact that chronically ill people did not

receive pre-medical care in time? well, that's all. that is, there will be no immediate increase in life expectancy. and as for activity, i think that by this i mean economic activity there, well, various different forms of activity, then here, i think that it would be possible to count on well, not on- on more or less positive things you know, i think that the question is not about money, which will appear thanks to the marshall plan, it is a matter of course. i think that people will strive to restore and revive their city, their place of work, their housing, their family, that is, you know, such things, if you look historically, of course, ukraine as part of of the soviet union, and ukraine before the second world war and ukraine after the second world war are two territorially different ukraines. we do not forget galicia

, volhynia and bukovyna, and so on, but then also the crimea. but even in the second world war , ukraine lost from five to 7 million people in total and died on the fronts, they were killed under the occupation and lived in the 30th year in ukraine, 36.6 million managed to reach the pre-war indicators only at the end of the 50s, that is, let's imagine this plus 14 years chief of the 59th year, the population was 41. well, almost 42 million, and before the war there was 1% more than before the war. these are the indicators of the soviet union, where you could basically plan and command everything. and in fact, how many things the authorities could decide more easily than now, you can’t force anyone there to give birth, there is still something to do, but it is, well, in many ways, there is somewhere the command planned economy of the soviet union, but somewhere there is also an ordinary human life that wants to be reborn, develop and live on after the war, especially 14 years in my opinion. how about me

in order not to build up 5 million people e-e and a large and a small period. do you think that such rates can be expected now? because for me it is at all impressive whether it is necessary or not , it is not possible, because after the war, in spite of all that , ukraine had a fairly high potential for demographic growth of the population, there was an age structure of the population. there were two young people , i.e. more, much more than uh, before the year 22, the population consisted of young people, well done, young people. well, who is born, you are well done, old people were much less. today, we have a different age structure, we have been talking about for 20 years the complete exhaustion of the potential of demographic growth, therefore, in ukraine, plus, we should not neglect the fact that

after the war, people were brought to ukraine, well , they were brought to ukraine, but less, but donbas was restored. we know how and now we can count on where they will come from ukraine people can only be in the case of a rapid improvement in the quality of life, so we need to talk about this and we need to talk very seriously , because without this, the demographic revival of ukraine theoretically cannot be if we ask the question of the revival of ukraine within the limits of 40 million, well, this is exclusively due to the influx of migrants , you know, i always say that emigration is a problem of business in which there is a lack of workers or heads, and immigration is a problem of the government, because it is necessary

to abstract people with a different culture and a different way of life and at the same time since we signed all the relevant documents to provide them with the development of their own culture and so on, that is, relatively speaking, this is a very serious problem when we talk about large-scale immigration . technologies there and so on and so on and so on but you can't forget that it's power and a number of problems well, i think the experts in the government who should have thought about it understand from which directions and from which regions of the world they can go to ukraine people of course these are the countries where there are big problems right now, this is the middle east, by the way, not necessarily if in ukraine, if in russia, i'm sorry if the outlook in russia will be very bad and the situation will be

very bad, well, in general, i will not leave russia now to ukraine this is not what i want to say if there will be a real economic boom in ukraine, a very economic boom if there will be a place if in paper terms there will be an opportunity to earn money, uh, comparable to european money, plus , they will be realized from europeans. well, i have a mai-perenso. my wife’s parents are americans. they live in the khmelnytskyi region, but they live there in the district center. well, now they live there in kiev, but now there are two germans in their district center. they came there, bought a house, a farm people there also work for them and they, well, their pension in german is enough for them. that’s it. well, i really want those people and younger people who

don’t have a pension there, relatively speaking, who do not yet have a german, austrian or swedish pension. well , but who developed business here and started some startups, well, at least i know for sure that in europe many companies even force their employees. well, they don’t. i offer mine to my employees to learn ukrainian so that they can work later in ukraine , this is also a fact, but here of course the rule of law and so many other things that should be, they should be, well, you and i are somewhere where we have to start now , you will have one more guest, but i want you to know in the end what this coefficient of dependence on the number of the population and that territory is which she can hold, it sounds so rude, but this is real life on earth, there is no such thing. that is, there are certain developments. i can say that the population density in ukraine was somewhere around 45, and according to european standards, but it is the same as in norway. 14 another

question what is there the territory is second to none the forests are still there, the fjords are not completely adapted for people to live densely in the cities, but 45 is a kind of indicator below the average in europe, you know. now i am reading a little what our viewers write in the comments on youtube, the broadcast of the worldview and there, people can write their comments in the chats , like, share, join, but they write for a salary of less than €500 , no one will return, full stop. here is the question money and the question of price remains key for those people who are currently abroad. but again, i want to ask you, now abroad, people live according to certain rules that were established in germany, there are certain amendments to the laws that will provide ukrainians with medical care, and that ends war, victory, martial law is canceled. european countries simply cross out these changes and say that you

will not have them here. is it true? no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, it’s not a pity , it’s not happiness, it won’t happen. europe is very interested in the young workforce. er, in europe, where the population exists in exactly the same way as in ukraine, it’s just that in europe it is compensated by the migration inflow, and in us it is intensified by the migration outflow, and therefore europeans are definitely interested in our women not just having children, not just staying there, but to men still came, so you can’t count on that, by the way, the truth here is that , relatively speaking, great britain planned to make certain programs in order to attract millions of young migrants to great britain in connection with the start of the great war in ukraine poles went to work in britain. in london, they are even visible. it shows me a special place where poles work and

there are a large number of them. well, poles , lithuanians, er, latvians, this is exactly what is happening in germany, it's not only britain, and they are intervals that are 400,000 of them. we need migrants every year and here is such a wonderful opportunity, first of all, well, not here now, i don’t want to express disrespect to any people, olena, the fact remains that ukrainians, they are europeans first of all, well , in contrast, conditionally speaking, from syrians or afghans, or there is -e line or representatives other countries where there are certain problems now, well, caused by the war or by others or by the fact that there was a war once, so of course ukrainians and ukrainians have already shown themselves in europe, well, poland relatively speaking, and polish and ukrainian emigrants in poland have now earned more money for the budget of poland with these taxes than in poland, it helped ukraine , that too well, the fact remains the fact, and here the question is, you know, how to stand up for the ukrainian government, whatever it may be after the elections, and it will not quarrel with

its partners. well, because everyone perfectly understands that in any case, in the future, these are human resources, and until no one replaces them, this is a key resource - these are people, with all due respect to oil and gas and other resources, that is , there are no questions. therefore, we are not sorry, there are no questions. but we definitely have opportunities on the one hand limitations and on the other hand limitless limitless because you know the psychology of the people of the winner cannot be compared with anything and after the victory of ukraine will have these incomparable motives for the return of ukrainians here and even the arrival here of people from other countries this is the first the second and today what we have

we have an absolute obligation to maintain contacts with those people who are currently abroad. these contacts should be from all sides , from the employer, from the class teacher , from neighbors, from relatives, from acquaintances, from anyone, just call back, correspond, explain how and what, believe me, it is very difficult for them psychologically there because they read all the time what is happening here, they all the time think about how scary it is here and often think it's even scarier than it really is, that's why you have to take this into account and one more thing that i never forget to repeat when greece was a donor country of labor force for europe, in greek airports there was a slogan , come back, the motherland is waiting for you, by the way, you know this, yes, it is measured in money. although i absolutely

agree with everything, if it is not worthy of a wage, people will not return, it is true, a decent wage salary is very important, what i am counting on, first of all, everyone has not eaten, he is delusional with the fact that cheap labor is the main competitive advantage of ukraine, and secondly, judging by the marshall plan, the money will not come just like that, it will come out of control if they will come under control and if international or foreign corporations come here, they will not behave the way ukrainian employers very often behave when he drives a lexus and ah-ah-ah-ah work

get what they get, do you know about us? well if there is still a moment, because we have another one there, it sounds like, but i want to ask you, there are a lot of moments. and how do you see it, i don’t know if you are investigating it right now, there is probably no time for that , to investigate our, not just neighbors, but the aggressor. and what do you see? prospects in the demography of russia, well, she is the head, you know not i want global she lost this war global ask a question only my opinion i will bring to the end that well globally putin wanted to become the second pole in this world he did not become so globally once again i want to say that russia lost the war here only the main thing for ukraine is of course not to get enough then here are these people who run away from russians always run away from russia. by the way, after the revolution of the 17th year, when kyiv was very careful not to get a fifth column , this is clear. we remember the 17th year, when well we don't remember, but we know from history when there were many russians who fled to kyiv in ukraine, it's true, then here the bolsheviks finished them off and these tsarist henchmen well, but not in

any case, that's what happened, i still want to ask a question. if... let's talk about those conditions. let's talk about those conditions. no, let's not talk about the conditions, but the people. we started talking a little about the people injured by this war, people who have serious injuries related to violence, the loss of loved ones, and other troubles and pains. these people also went abroad the question here is that you know many people, children of young people. they can associate ukraine with ukraine as a country where they experienced this traumatic and terrible experience and the desire to simply not return to this experience , because the understanding that ukraine is simply your home, but murderers came to your home i had this experience, but when they are removed from there, ukraine will remain ukraine, and for many people it will be such a pain that you don't want to return to. because ukraine is where i felt bad, where i lost

relatives and this can also be a signal to stay abroad or not for part of the people, definitely. it can be a signal not only for the border, it can be an impetus for five people who today live in, let's say, western ukraine not to return to their destroyed cities and settlements may definitely be possible, but i don’t think it will be a mass phenomenon . and please tell me, right now, in ukraine, in addition to the fact that up to 10 million people left, some are returning, some did not leave, well, this is again me, i operate topics with numbers that give or sociologists or certain services, so which should count on what our border guards give and approximately how many have now left ukraine through the western borders according to the website plus moldova false migration from february 24 to april 30. i just didn’t look later million

800 okay hi 2 million taking into account for someone to cross illegally, thank you, you really liked it. yes, thank you very much. i see the audience. by the way, i see and respect you as a specialist and a great person. thank you for your comments . we will rebuild ukraine. everything will be fine. we believe in it . ella libanova, the director of the institute, was with us. of demography and social studies, and now we are bringing to the conversation andriy reva, the minister of social policy of ukraine, we will include conversations in the years 16-19 and we will have about 15 minutes with him, we will talk with him objectively and specifically about how to create conditions for people in they returned to ukraine, because you know, you can say well, come, leona is coming, conditionally speaking, to kherson oblast, to mykolaiv oblast, well, i'm not talking about donbas there, especially there , where now the content simply does not exist, like there, maryinka popasna, bakhmuty and other cities the question is there mariupol, but they come to mykolaiv oblast, half of the village is destroyed, there is no business there, i don’t want to return there, the territory is mined while

it is being demined, i don’t know how many years, and then they don’t have a question, but where to settle in it ? yes, i will settle. in demkivtsi in khmelnytskyi or in some other settlement in vinnytsia there in mukachevo in berdychev or wherever it may be and the person then thinks what kind of business is there for me? i am currently working in western ukraine from eastern ukraine and sometimes from northern ukraine well, good, but there is a month in this business, it may not be for me, and maybe then i will be able to start a farming activity or start some startup, what are these points? andriy reva is with us. congratulations to andriy good afternoon, i am already here, mr. ivanovych green, who has already been declared here, spoke about demographic issues . and i want you to ask us very specific substantive questions, literally er, 14 of them, but we will always have time, er, what conditions

should the government create, well, maybe i, first of all government and society also, so that ukrainians from abroad would want to return , and perhaps not even waiting for the final victory , and now, when there are also many things to be done. and what is it possible that the government is doing wrong now with this? przemyśl-kyiv i see how many people are returning to ukraine already now , let's be honest that living abroad is not so simple , not so easy, even if you have to accept it as a business, someone has already got a job. someone has not yet got a job. are returning where there are no hostilities. and there are such regions where people simply have nowhere to return, if we take severodonetsk , lysychansk, bakhmut, many houses in kharkiv were destroyed on the site of this, especially what was a sleeping area, that is , there are different situations and when you ask what

the government should do so that people return , the first thing that should do this so that people have a place to return to, that is, so that they have simple basic housing, but for many it is a huge problem. and when i was asked today what are the priorities, i i am still surprised that they are rebuilding roads, rebuilding bridges, including two secondary ones, they are helping people whose homes have been destroyed, we won't even go far. take anything near kyiv, take irpin and ask such people what they helped they received from the state, i don't think the answer will be positive, if people have nowhere to live, how can they return, this is the first, second, in order for people to be able to support themselves after returning, they need a job. look at the unemployment figures in ukraine today, and you will understand that people who will come here, even if they have a place to live, they simply won't be able to provide

for themselves. and if you ask what is being done to make sure that our connection is unfortunately lost. yes, mr. andriy, please continue. i want to say that even if he is to live, they need to work somewhere to support themselves. and the issue of unemployment. i think the problem is very, very acute and it is acute because neither the government nor the ministry it does not deal with the economy, because uh, employment centers in general, issues of labor, wages, labor protection , unemployment, they are all transferred functions of the ministry of economy. look at the ministry of economy. and without organization in the system of the central executive power lead to the fact that people simply see that no one cares about them and

no one is there for them, so they want it better to stay abroad for the time being, mr. andriy, and besides the salary, what are you in poland ? it’s impossible to be in other countries of the european union and see the life of ukrainians abroad . well , in principle, i also have relatives abroad. they create conditions for people if you see a perspective in them and create conditions so that they not only earn some physical work, so that they stay , develop and give birth to children there in one or another country, this is obvious if you are there you need it and you'll learn the language and everything will be fine with you, and that's why there's a question of competition. and what else are the basics besides the salary ? god's creations, but for economists and businessmen, people are resources, come

on , and for politicians, by the way, that's why, let's be frank. power in general, in ukrainian society, well, let me clarify a little. i have not been abroad since february 24, 2022, and this is what we have been doing for a while. case, now, as for the struggle for the people, uh, from our side, from the side of ukraine , for these people, no one speaks. therefore, if one side does not fight, and the others fight, then the result, in my opinion, is self-evident, true. when we hear a lot of pathetic words that you need to support people, but you look at the things that the government is proposing today, let's say, hire a new minister of education, forestry

, who talks about extra subjects in school . reduction of teachers is true, where will all these people end up, they will end up on the street . look at his proposals for the union of nodes, what will end this union, what will be cut, again, teachers will be cut subjects, everything related to this. that is, we see how uh, fiscal issues, monetary issues, that is, where to find money, they push into the background any others, so when you say well, what else do they need, they need basic things, basic things, it should you have to live somewhere. you have to have a job that will feed you. everything else is the next step. if you don't have these basic things, what are we talking about? can people live on the street and take care of their own development? i have seen tens and thousands of people who are still there today. they live as internally displaced persons live in temporary conditions it is simply terrible that they are really helped except by the local

government, for which everything is difficult, so i want to say once again that the main problem of today's situation is that we have a complete chaos of public administration, no one does anything without a team of you didn't withdraw anything from the bank, by the way , many students, and especially people who will enroll, are now determined to enroll abroad. and by the way , the hunt for ukrainian youth is very it is very serious now, i can see even on social networks how many ads are appearing now, it is just being thrown into e-learning in austria, in slovakia, in slovenia, in poland, tours, please, look, come , this question is that our youth is needed. everyone understands very well that ukrainian youth can not only to fight, and that's why she knows how to fight. by the way, at the front, she has a riveting , health, motivation, and intelligence, this is very important, that's why these young people are interested in

europe, the question is that i understand that we we now the news about education. you are not a specialized minister, he was never a minister of education. well, it is still important, it is possible to somehow reformat the approaches to what professions are needed, but it is possible to recruit again for lawyers in the economy and so on, but we need bananas , we need builders, we trivially need tractor drivers how many of these are now injured and died in tanks ? we need some other professions that will help rebuild ukraine . should there be some repurposing here too, or do you think it is not the right time? as they say, well you know, reforms are always not on time, although reform is needed, the question is what is the priority , what do you want to achieve, we heard from the new minister such a concept as the quality of education, is he concerned about the quality of education, no, he is not concerned that children are overloaded, that there are many extra hours in schools, etc. further, because corruption, as he says, is corruption in schools, what does he say during the teacher's breaks, not in the ukrainian language , and so on, that is, this is his priority, but when

we talk about what society wants from education, it should strive and quality improvement is not a question at all, because in fact , behind all these words there is only one desire to reduce funding, reduce funding, find additional funds in order to then direct them, for example, to roads, because when we talk about reducing, for example , funding for the army, everyone is outraged. that everyone understands where our real priority is today. and when mr. lisovyi tells us that 8 billion are not enough for education , everyone is silent, saying that this is not the main subject. i want to remind you that once upon a time in cherzel a draft budget was dropped in warring britain, which provided for a reduction in funding for culture, because i asked what we were fighting for then, in my opinion, and we were to adapt and not only to education. we social protection should relate to medicine and so on, you understand

, there is no idea what to do and how to do it that's why we already have a completely centralized management system, the ministers are completely deprived of any initiative and practically they are responsible for what they manage, what instructions they are given from the bank, that's the problem and no one has really serious questions engaged, i will draw your attention, but now we are talking about the counteroffensive, yes, they are organizing the offices of irmak and the ministers , and so on, he begins to cut the task so that they are engaged in providing those brigades that will take part, participate in us, listen. is n't this a verdict on the state of public administration? what does the ministry of defense do ? what do other structures that are supposed to provide for the army

do? we have such results, that's why we ask the question why people don't return because they feel that they are not needed here that's all i 'm on us for literally a couple of minutes, i'll finally ask the sociologist ptypovich, by the way, he once admitted to me on the air that long before the beginning of the great war that his rating agency was the first to include volodymyr zelenskyi in the lists of presidential candidates, well , no one would have even guessed, well, mr. kolomoisky, obviously, his friends decided to see and how will it play, as they say well, it played then they have already started promoting him as a candidate, but this is ptypovych, now they say that even the scottish one is not suitable for a second term - it will of course be a great tragedy, according to him , but it will be an even greater tragedy if the war prepares a successor. i will ask a question. it’s just that these words should be commented on, especially by an experienced person who knows the price of power and the blood of this power, please, well, first of all, the anti-raise should be more modest, first of all, about the possibility of that so that zelensky can be the president said