[000:00:00;00] i am worried about his psychological state, they are very worried already when we were preparing this issue for broadcast, russia did confirm that it is detaining mario, here is the answer to the family's lawyer from the military prosecutor's office of the black sea fleet , a citizen of spain and garcía kalat yuda-mariano was placed in the institution of the criminal correctional system, where he is being held until now the investigation or the measures regarding him have not been completed. tatyana believes that spreading the story about her beloved mario will help to save him. we hope that the spanish will finally be interested in the fate of the imprisoned spaniard human rights defenders, as well as international humanitarian organizations, and soon mario , who loves ukraine so much and does not tolerate injustice, will be free. i want him to be released

as soon as possible. i would really like to say to him those warm words that i have already learned in spanish so that he will be surprised that he was waited for, that he was not forgot what they thought about him we are also asking for help in finding other people with whom contact was lost during the full-scale russian invasion in this photo 76-year-old valentin kovalev from the village of bogorodychyne, donetsk region, and in this photo iryna perepelitsa, she must be 83 now, the woman lived in mariupol, her niece is looking for her together with the national police and the national information bureau, we are ready to help everyone, so if you know anything about people in search, write to our email or call

102 or 4:48 p.m. new search stories watch what fridays at 10:45 p.m. search and don't give up good evening friends, we welcome you to the general national telethon channel 1+1 and we now have what we love with maxim conversational platform we have returned the conversational studios, we really like it when the discussion takes place live and today we decided to talk well, about the victory, uh. how strange , but we think that we need to be ready for this event, because it is also a test for all of us. a test of content before that's why. let's start obviously , well, later on, about whose victory it should be , what it should consist of, how to make sure that the guilty are punished, that the guilty are punished, and that what we are experiencing is what we once thought that

we will see it only in the movies, it never happened to our children, that's why somewhere in someone i read from historians that ukrainians always win but they don't know how to use their victory for their own benefit, that's what they want to talk about today, what should our victory be, represents our guests oleksandr kraev, expert of the ukrainian foreign policy council prizma good evening andriy melnyk , deputy minister of foreign affairs, and ruslan osypenko, an expert on international affairs , former executive director of the chinese trade association, let's start with the last one or start with the obvious thing that shook because a political commentator says that what happened the other day when everyone called zelensky is well, so to speak , it shifts the balance a little and gives hope and i really want to discuss this moment. is this will it affect the victory or will it, on the contrary, delay the victory here is what is happening in the context

of ukrainian-chinese relations and how is this episode and the fifteen-month war and will affect they spoke from this zelensky, there was some fragment of english he said no, everything was valid , er, because it was communist, it was like that, so they talked with the translators, there were no such diplomatic left to right, the conversation took place under supervision well, actually, i think er, it is very important step by step, because er, this is the first time at the beginning of a large-scale invasion, the leaders of both states had the opportunity to

communicate at the end of the direction er, and this is a good start in my opinion er, i think it is important that messenger of our partners , they still happened to those who went to our friends er allies to beijing and tried to convince er chinese friends that only through a direct dialogue with ukraine with the president of ukraine is possible, that is, it is not possible then at all, well, to start conversations about mediation missions about anything, but if our opinion is not heard, then well, it all remains, of course, quite vague now , thank god, it is starting to change, what will be the result for us er, it's too early to say yet the special envoy of the president of the people's republic of china will come to kyiv. there are no deadlines yet, but i think it will happen

quite quickly. well , we'll see. they can't ignore us, and i think that it's good, it's a good start. it seems to me , oleksandr, before i give you the floor , there is something to be done, yes, president of ukraine zelenskyi said that during the phone conversation with sisypin discussed the issue of the implementation of the ukrainian peace formula, the return of deported ukrainian children from russia, the release of prisoners, as well as ensuring the work of the black sea grain initiative, this is such a big step forward, then china is ready to hear us, especially after those allegedly incorrect problematic statements of the chinese ambassador to the french republic, such a step china really shows that they are overestimating the status of ukraine, that is, let's remember earlier china's rhetoric was reduced to very basic clichés that this is a war , how did the west solve it, we need to talk to

they are states and where no one is to blame for this, and ukraine is a victim of ukraine being manipulated. well, it is very similar to what the russian propaganda told us and continues to say, therefore this change is definitely not positive, we are becoming more subjective for china, we are becoming more interesting. from the american point of view, i will approach how deeply we can relatively develop these, because after all, we should not forget that china always first of all professes its own position, therefore, despite this progress, it is very good that we remain cautious, the chinese have repeatedly stated that although they see the rejection of their peace proposal, they also understand that there are many points where we can work on nuclear security, that is, despite all the dictatorship and authoritarianism of certain regimes , nuclear security is important to the chinese, and it is also important to the chinese to keep it. for certain own geopolitical interests, but for now it is possible omit and therefore, if we sum it up like this, now is the moment when we can catch the chinese in their own rhetoric, they have said many times that

they will be caught in nuclear rhetoric a little different, they want to be mediators, they constantly say that the main thing for them is peace, the main thing for them is the restoration of the order of stability, right now is the moment for them to show if they want peace they have to condemn the absolutely obvious facts of human rights violations and acts of war crimes did not support this conflict is absolutely glaringly obvious and therefore right now we can clearly define for ourselves and for our allies where china is in this war, we will be able to use their desire to be a mediator because it seems to me one gets the impression that it is more important for them to be a mediator than to get some result in the war, in fact, wow, you are close to the truth, in fact, china will always play on its side, it will not play on the side of russia , on the side of ukraine, it is playing its own game, and now this game is a struggle for

global leadership, that's all the steps, including the ukrainian-russian war, is considered as an e-e step for the peaceful rise of china , the peaceful rise of china as a mediator, as a country that offers a different algorithm, the fidelity of solving conflict situations, remember this the initiative of 12 years with which they came out where they proposed to get rid of the mentality of the cold war to get rid of blocism it was such a passage towards the united states of america that the system they created as a result of the second world war it leads to blocism and blocs lead to opposition to conflict and before the war, they want to steamroll something else and that's why in 2013 they came out with the concept when all the ding-ping came to vla they came out with the concept of a society of a common destiny for humanity uh, offering uh, trade, harmony, balance, well i.e. things that don't seem to bring conflicts, er, how to do it, they say that

today's system is built on finding points of contact at the level of interests, they want to build a system at the level of touch of values , that is, look for common points of value and do not interfere in internal political affairs. that is, which regime, which the political situation in the country , we do not interfere. we bargain, we create some bases for communication at different levels, and in this way we understand each other better , but i say that china will play its own game. moscow will not be played, in fact, he swallowed already after sisinping’s visit, uh, to moscow, we saw two political declarations, one political declaration, if you look at it , everything is written there, i want china, if we talk about nuclear weapons, they said here that this is a common point of contact. look which one rhetoric and what line china is taking on nuclear weapons nuclear weapons should not be deployed they should remain

on the national territories of countries putin actually foiled the plans literally there a week after everyone left and that was it discontent under the movie is definitely because this strategic move was disrupted, only a tool for trade was created in order to trade with the united states, take away your nuclear weapons from your four countries in europe, nuclear weapons, take them away, and then he says, and i am in belarus, everything was removed, china cannot do this to exit, the tool has disappeared, but in each of these tools, you need to look at the text and subtext in the dialogues from china. and is it possible to continue this story before that , let's see, today was interesting the president's answer to the question of what goals we set before writing the ambassador to china will start his work and what obligations you

set before him, i will not say thank you, this is what i am saying to you about the points of contact of values, what are our values ​​with china, how should we find a common language, how should we interest china, which always looks at its interests first, is ready , please. well, first of all, we have a contractual basis, and on it we can rely on what is officially put on paper. in 2011, we signed a declaration on strategic cooperation, yes they say there is no partner number one. yes, this is one point. the second point is that we have signed a treaty on friendship and cooperation. the president visited there, and we signed many documents there. a big treaty like we had with russia, the third moment china joined the budapest memorandum, it guaranteed us

security and we can rely on these things, it is interesting that zelensky reminded this conversation that it was in budapest memorandum or not, no one knows, he came, he joined, and he guaranteed us, therefore, we can start with capital letters of some institutions and truths that we have about on paper. others perceive their mentality until now, the concept of tian-si tianshi tian-si a -a heavenly that they are in the center , they have been civilized for 5,000 years around them are barbarians who are in conflict, and they are spreading light , which means, er, conflicts are decreasing spreading its influence, they will spread their influence on russia, it will not fight, it will all come under the light of many things that er well, they won't say, but there are er on confucianism why is the philosophy of today being built at all - it's marxism and

confucianism two things if you know on which legs today's china stands and you will dig into what confucianism is, it is a balance, harmony there, marxism is different. then you will understand why they act like this and not otherwise, and you can predict the steps that will be taken even by the representative who will leave china, he will go to collect information directly and bypass ukraine, including to europe, to moscow in order to find an option and bring it to beijing and so that they collectively make a decision already without problems in ukraine, er, he is in eurasia , that's why and so they gave him not to to narrow the maneuver if in ukraine, it means you communicate with ukraine and if there is a conflict with russia, well , china will not do that, why should it narrow its diplomatic maneuver ? will drive and

after all, pushing one's chinese concept means somehow adapting to this concept european concepts will start with europe because europe is less united, it is fragmented, china understands who to work with, that this is a weak strategic underbelly of the euro-atlantic alliance and it is necessary to work with europe. understood when macron arrived and actually declared there, he makes strange statements, yes, for the euro-atlantic community, that is why they will work with europe, then with russia, they know the position, and then only with ukraine will offer something to us at our discretion, but they will say, but before that they will also consult with the united states of america. that is, it will already be an approximate draft of some formula for us, for them , the peace formula of our ukraine is the peace formula of the west, it is unacceptable for them honestly, i have to say good. so you say that if you know that they stand on two legs, you can predict how they will act. well, let's model what they can offer in the form of a compromise. so

i asked mykhailo podeluk today whether i left president zelensky is a field where it is possible to discuss some compromise options for a solution and which would suit him in one word well, well, mykhailo said no because the war is such that it requires only an unequivocal victory and there can be no compromise here, but then what can we talk about? but if you invite to a conversation, it is obvious that it must be about some kind of compromises, but around what it is, after all, it can be geopolitical . yes, he can raise the level higher, but around something, well, obviously, there will be conversations and when you told oleksandr about e -is nuclear weapons, yes, well, in the context of our relations and the vilnivskyi itself, it is obvious that the vilnivskyi itself will not bring us the desired european integration and many international experts are now saying, well, maybe ukraine should ask

the question before the united states of america and before nato or nato or return us to the nuclear status and again in this context we are obviously not bad to say that more harry more ugara there he would not be bad to say well let's where well cliorize then the russian federation because well, it cannot be with such a leadership and with such intentions and also with nuclear weapons or give us ukraine tactical nuclear weapons in a word, what can china be caught on is a difficult question because, well, we started with you from the fact that ukraine has just begun to subject itself to looming not in the geopolitical plans of china, respectively, to point out that we are immediately at the center of the hajenda is very difficult, in fact, uh, as if china did not want to evade the issue of the opposition block, as if it hm for show not tried to move away from this rhetoric, but they do not clearly understand what a block confrontation is, one way or another, some

are beginning. for example, american colleagues say that it has already begun and it began ideologically from a political point of view. we have seen for ourselves the democracies that organized the states . countries that fully depend on chinese investments, countries that fully cooperate with china, contrary to american opinion or despite american proposals, they are not this summit didn’t get in, the same applies to new american projects, the same applies in general to the american doctrine of expanding its influence, which biden essentially returned for his president, as he said, america has returned they should meet one of these days a feature of this new confrontation, despite the completely different ideological approach, that is, as ruslan correctly said to the chinese, do not interfere in internal politics, so that we do not do yes, we have genocide of the gurs, yes, we have problems with human rights yes we don't have freedom of speech, you don't interfere and we won't interfere with you america is more about multilateralism on this

there is a conflict on this there is a contradiction but let's not forget that the usa and the eu make up more than 43% of china's foreign trade, therefore we must meet these superpowers are alone without each other how they want to see themselves, they will not be able to exist because of what is the role of ukraine in china's vision here , it is important in china's vision , it would be very beneficial for china to create a buffer neutral country from us that is not determined by the transition to the democratic camp, let's call it that determined with the position regarding russia, it remains a problematic problem because it does not define its course towards the west as problematic or does not define its relations with and other difficult neighbor and therefore constantly distracts the west from more important cellular problems , yes absolutely yes, mr. andriy, liberation that china only begins to formulate his big stick to his big formula what will they end up with? well, although roughly ukraine, the situation

in europe, well, look, i think that's right , it's very correct, colleague, er, we're talking about subjectivity er to acquire subjectivity for ukraine, well, it's such a difficult thorny path but it seems to me er and actually this phone call showed that even china is even such a powerful state and china and er and really you can talk for a long time about plans and i absolutely agree with my colleagues that this state is still looking for its role and influence, which is gradually spreading, well, it is becoming more and more noticeable. i just don't see an example for you. latin america is also a continent that is dynamic and everything what happened in the last

20 years, that is, while our trade there, well, i am silent about investment with this region. it remained more or less unchanged there, then china increased its trade volume and its influence in this region from about 12 billion e from the beginning of the 2000s to up to 450 billion e.e. last year, that is, they increased 40 times by 40 times, i am not talking about strategic projects that are financed by loans and about investments that are in the most distant village on the e-e latin american continent, that's why we see it all and we take all this into account, but it is important here to understand that even in spite of this effort, first of all, china's economic boom. it seems to me that in beijing they realize and understand that ignoring the will of ukraine and our vision of how we want to achieve peace and end the war , even in china, they will not be able to afford it, and this is important. it seems to me

that this realization comes through our heads, that no great power of this world will be able to impose that peace in that sense, and i don't mean only china, which corresponds to other interests there and contradicts ours, i think that it is important. it is also important to realize that ukraine is very difficult, it is not easy, but ukraine is also turning into a player, and we cannot be counted on, what then will be included in the ukrainian victory formula. of completely different countries are the basis of this document that has not yet been written , what can it be? well, look, there is a resolution of the united states of america and the house of representatives

. now i will find it somewhere. it is already unknown to ukraine how much - it is unknown at what distance from the victory itself, but it is already so before the counter-attack, we hope for a chance victory of ukraine, it should be considered the full return to the control of kyiv, the territory of ukraine. so, within the limits of the 91st, my phone went out, then reparations, contributions, then i don't see it here, tell me here it is , please, the border of 1991 believes that the peace brought by the ukrainian victory should ensure the integration of ukraine into nato and other euro-atlantic institutions, which corresponds to the unchanging polish politics of the united states and declares that the united states must work with its allies and partners to ensure that the russian federation will pay ukraine reparations, the international community will help rebuild ukraine, and last but not least, it provides for holding representatives of the russian government to account for this war and establishing justice, as evidenced by this what does this document mean? is it

some kind of a break or does it only indicate the support of two parties and nothing else, and especially you should not rely on this document but the very fact that the president of ukraine, viktor yushchenko, came to present this document. well, obviously, this is not such a strong signal . in fact, i saw not only the external context. well, she actually said something before the counteroffensive after the visits. by the way, the europeans to china before the end of this in the fall of 2018, we will have very important elections in poland, we will have elections in slovakia, that is, a change in the political situation among the allies - these are all important external signals, but one must understand the internal context . after the announcement, if i am not mistaken in this tuesday biden will practically run for office, we can already semi-officially say that the pre-election race has begun from both camps, hard corners came out and said there will be a fight . so, the formation of camps will begin, the formation of support begins, the first big polls will begin. we will begin to understand how

the duel will look. we have to state that approaching the first primaries we will hear a lot and very often unpleasant statements why this will happen in different types of american bagpers in the dance washington and politics and the fainosha have all already written something about ukraine and all of them have something unpleasant because the democratic candidate has to flirt with the progressives, they are among the specialists who do not want to support ukraine, the republicans , be trump, the paratroopers, the rocks, anyone , you have to flirt with the trumpists, according to the last poll, unfortunately, about 6% parties and they also do not support ukraine, therefore even the candidates whom we considered to be absolutely pro-ukrainian they will experiment with this audience and will not say it is possible we need to reconsider giving up part of the aid and so on, it is predicted but so that neither we, nor our allies, nor primarily russia, china perceive such statements as a certain change in policy, the congress is already fixing the strategic course of the united states on

the perception of our victory to something. in fact, this does not impose a direct obligation. well, who will forbid them to say any nonsense at the debate. but at the same time, he simply makes a clear distinction that these are internal political games. but this is really the course of the united states as a state, this is our course strategic in support of ukraine and our understanding of the ukrainian victory on this issue, that is, this is the official position of the united states for the next two years, we can there for 2-3 years , we can perceive it as their official position in essence. constitution, can we say that it is beneficial for both camps, republicans and democrats, for the war in ukraine to be prolonged and brought as close as possible to the american elections, because every president, whatever he is was not able to put this victory in his pocket or, for example, if we are again

standing at the door of the euro-atlantic summit in vilnius in july , and maybe in a year eh i accept ukraine and that means i did a lot to make ukraine a member of nato. well , is this a trump card for the americans or will it win something in the domestic and it is easier for us who are americans now economic problems and they entered in fact, in the confrontation with china, we know that in the house of representatives there is a committee on strategic confrontation of skips to strategic competition with china, and we recently heard a report by the secretary of the treasury of the united states of america, which said that it is not desirable for you to engage in direct confrontation because we will lose 2% of gdp as minimum and this will

affect the situation. yes, but economists signal in advance that if you reach a direct confrontation, you will lose china, but you will also lose , and then the situation will be very difficult, because there will be a cumulative effect, see the collapse of banks, inflation in the states, plus you are in direct competition with china, all three of these factors give you a cumulative effect about social and economic stability, then there is no need to talk about the united states of america, if there is no stability in the leader of our coalition , then there will be problems in the coalition because various discussions are taking place in the european union about what the future will be even in the united states, now there is no, but i see a problem in this pro- in this draft resolution that there is no description and what is victory victory is not a way out to the borders of 1991, as an empire that lost, which was driven to the borders of 1991, lost the war

, will its revanchist sentiments not be preserved? they don't know what else to do with russia. china already knows what it will do, it wants to have about chinese russia to integrate russia completely without a fight and use it as a tool everywhere on international platforms as a member of the un security council constantly as a nuclear power to to speak in the open, but now the main question at j7 will be, uh, biden will go, there will be nuclear disarmament, china, russia will declare and work in the same way, everything russia is a tool for china, that is, china already sees what should be done with russia after the victory, the united states does not see, they a- and it was written like this, to expel the occupiers means to pay damages . and revanchism, where will it go to this empire, what to do with it after that, so that in 3-5 years , the empire will return and destroy ukraine again

, and russia proves that whoever learns history sees that the russians fought three wars to overcome novgorod, seize two chechen wars, but still raised chechnya, that is, they return with these revanchist attitudes to what they consider theirs, and they consider ukraine to be a rebellious province that ran away from them, and this is their roots from here, as if in the gradov match, they will return here because of the victory over russia. i consider this to be imperialization, so that there is no empire, so that there are no nuclear weapons, this is a victory, but to do it when china already has plans for the chinese it will be very difficult for russia to be a united state of america, especially when their economy weakens. are there examples in uh international history when uh, the united states of america is anglo-saxon in any version, but did with uh countries what it is so desirable for ukraine to do with russia the federation is to be trifled with and to