[000:00:00;00] the representative of israel left the hall because of the fact that the head there now somehow perceives rabbi nachman's grave as some kind of public service related to a religious cult and not to state interests. so it's too complicated. it seems to me that we're just trying to find logic where they are in there is no principle, in principle , to what extent can it be assumed that these battles will continue for bakhmut marinka? how do you feel, in principle, that the russians should continue to try to gain a foothold in these cities? are these completely helpless actions? yes, helpless actions you have already seen prigozhin who says that they don't have any kits

because there aren't enough supplies, he complains that the offensive simply cannot continue and the russian offensive will not be able to continue without the supply of such ammunition, because the kits are such a logic that you know war bakhmut showed that the war of the future is uh, as we call it, we speak english, that is, a war in a city and such a war in such a company can even uh , even break the spine. well, we also had it in america , with the iraqis, there were such and such cases, such and such operations, but here it is already at a much higher level

, much greater sacrifices and intensity, and hmm, they continue, in my opinion, as much as you can, and yours, well, continue to defend it because it is also reputable such an er and has rehearsals of the family powerful reputational elements and can no longer at this stage leave eh yes yes yes yes this region and he opens well participation in the military plan access to the ways that you know in the direction of kramatorsk to the slavic volume and strategically also, well, i’m comparing such a small, not very big city, but i have such a strategic location, we’ll see if it’s just russia

to continue attacking in this region and if it can also prepare for the defense of other important areas of the front, because for sure the strike will be lower than in another direction, no one knows. well , there are many such thoughts, many analyzes, let's see. well , it's logical that in the given direction, a-- isolate the cream, like my former commander, you don't want, he constantly says, i constantly recommend but really, this is a decision only in your command of the armed forces of ukraine and in your leadership of the president, and that's why we were already there . let

's see if russia can defend . i can't, i don't remember if they really defended like that at such and such a place in such and such an area in separate uh this year and that's why it's such a new situation in my opinion ah and we'll see if well, there's a lot of defense, what kind they are building there, especially the pryshka in the crimea will be able somewhere really of such quality or how he also says that the general wants that these are really trenches like the first world war, and they cannot protect the russian, and well , defenders from the impact of drones and others. therefore, i hope that they did not teach a lot, and

of course you have spirit i will sow and fight. the fighting spirit is not much more powerful because of that, and i am sure that the tracks of your leadership will decide when, well, what direction it will be, then they will be able to strike with such force as an armored fist, how to say that the russian front simply collapses and uh, it can be there that's it, it's piston reaction for one area to break through the movement to the front there and already the panic on er covers other other forms of formation russian and er many are already fleeing from the front so and so and there is such and such a probability in my opinion thank you thank you mr. marko mark voyager director

of the master's program global manage and associate professor, american kyiv, former special adviser on russian affairs, commander of american forces in europe, general ben hodzheno, and now we will add to our conversation ruslan osypenko , a diplomat, an expert internationalist, who is well-versed in the delicate issues of china and in fact, this week we also have something to talk about china, because he finally found the time he was talking about calling zelenskyi i want to start mr. ruslan with a politically incorrect question i hear all the time from our politicians, diplomats and not only ours and experts these are the words that are always pronounced with some kind of special inspiration, you know about this subtle eastern

logic about the fabric of chinese diplomacy about the fact that china has been waiting for a thousand years about all these rivers that mean the banks of the honghe and that to me reminds you, you know, how the west always talked about the mysterious russian soul , referring to dostoyevsky and tolstoy, while dealing with the ordinary secretaries of the regional committee in the party, who, through repression and struggle and with each other, got drunk somewhere at the top of power and from there, the needy began to pour their boots, also precisely with china. well, it seems to me that after all, it is not necessary to talk about such sophisticated politics when it comes to the secretaries of the central committee of the party about the former hunweibins, that is, these calls are in reality, the former he webin is not an image and people, i would say with a very simplified p- political logic. and we all the time look at them as if they are emperors of some, you know, empire of the great mughals, and it

annoys me. materials to establish then i felt bad so uh to understand modern china modern china stands on two legs this is marxism and confucianism if it is simplified to say so if you understand on which legs it stands then you understand how to act and communicate with china they are definitely historical experience is taken into account. they read strategies, they use wall books with these strategies, but they also think that marxism has a lot of useful things in it, so they use it in their politics, so if you simply say, discard all the subtleties, marxism and confucianism are a combination in general things, that's a good question. is it somehow possible to stand on such two legs , when one is essentially simple, the other, one leg goes in one direction, the other is more of a critic

of olympias, the times have a backlash. well, this is a wonderful, beautiful question. and how is it possible to combine the party, the communist party of china, i am the morning economy well, well, they combined marxism and confucianism in the same way, because they see in marxism that this is the general philosophy of marxism, they say that it gives justice to the general in the world, and in confucianism, the point of contact is balance , harmony, justice, balance, harmony , they believe that there are points of contact, and i believe that it is possible to combine and use these two philosophies. china, like china, which wants to become a peacemaker, like china, which shows that it is a separate player and now come to me. come to bow or wait for a call from me. china is definitely strengthening

its position as, firstly, a world leader, and secondly, as a peacemaker, which has already succeeded. in modern practice, actually appease historically irreconcilable enemies, this is saudi arabia and iran, and china wants to demonstrate this practice. i think that it wants to demonstrate precisely in the ukrainian-russian war in this war in order to reconcile ukraine and russia if they they did not want to take on obligations, but formally approached this issue, they would not appoint a person responsible for eurasia who will deal directly with this war because, well, the person needs to be told something, the person needs to be offered some formulas, participate in the negotiations, and that is why he will be involved in this negotiation process, it should certainly give some result . therefore, it is a certain responsibility if you appoint a person, then a certain responsibility . the second signal for me was, er, that they

still take a certain responsibility for they could not say about it themselves, but they said about it that they are for the development of a strategic partnership, few people said about it and it was somehow not at the time and it was not at the moment, but china announced it. and if you say that you are a strategic partner, then you are taking it upon yourself obligations do you have to either support us or stop this war or er there to achieve a just peace er because strategic partners do not act differently that is why these signals between the lines were important for me. termination war on some conditions that will suit ukraine well, ukraine really wants to restore its territorial integrity on

the borders of 1991. and for russia, these are unacceptable conditions, where is there even a platform for mediation? he is not interested, he is interested in the fact that the conflict was not so intense, it did not lead to the third world by the use of nuclear weapons, he is interested in this, but if the war continues, the event will be to weaken, russia will weaken, and then china can simply put forward a larger list of demands both to one and to others because they are weakened and will be interested in china. and here is the appointment of the former ambassador of the prc to russia now as a representative to ukraine. cynicism yet is it actually confucianism and marxism taken in a heap , how should it be regarded ? yes, yes, in order to compensate for this, in fact, a diplomatic blow to moscow. you saw the reaction in

moscow. what was the reaction? how is it that china he is no longer our partner. he came to us in order to appease them just as they appointed a person who was an ambassador there and who actually grew up on those moscow narratives, well, in fact, she is known in this country because they do not become ambassadors to china just like that, a person grew up there, and as an attaché, he was involved in this region, studied languages ​​and traveled to this region several times , that is, he is completely immersed in the politics of this region, therefore, in order to demonstrate and reassure the russians, i think that the former was appointed ambassador to russia in order to see yes, we called, but there is a person who you know, with whom you have contacts, you can contact him. you can talk there because, well, as an ambassador, a person has made a million connections in russia at the highest political

level, so this is for to appease the political elite of russia, and we don't need to appease relations with us anymore, let's say that he is at the beginning of the journey, he just started on the path as the president said, which means that the dialogue has resumed and we are counting on what he had deepen will deepen and spread and my mother has a perspective. so we are at the beginning of the journey, and will the same thing happen to him? as happened with the ambassador of china to france, who began to talk about the fact that not all countries of the former soviet union, but some are not as equal as some others, if translate this message, eagle, see china will never narrow its diplomatic maneuver uh , he himself will, on the contrary, expand it, as always, there are two scenarios, which uh, a cooperative scenario and a confrontation scenario , depending on how he will be pushed

will the geopolitical situation change, will he use one or the other, but he is developing two tracks at the same time, he can argue there with europe and at the same time agree there on the acquisition of some critical infrastructure. that is, it is normal for them, they are not playing chess, they are playing go at the same time there on three boards, that's why it's typical for china, such and such approaches , you know. i think that for the majority of ukrainians there, they will not delve into the intricacies of china's two legs, on which it stands, and most importantly , will china not support arming russia this is the biggest issue that worries everyone. no, for a year or two, it is certain that he will not support russia in arms, because he is now following the script in a different scenario, which judges should first change the plans of their opponents, this is the first point if it is not possible to change the plans a-a we saw this visit and this is the beginning of china joining this diplomatic

race and trying to change the position of europe at least in the euro-atlantic alliance. well, in this union that stands behind the shoulders of ukraine , and we saw that he started talking there and declared macron when he went to china. here is the first point for you. the second point is to break the alliances that threaten you, threaten china, what threatens the euro-atlantic union and this euro-atlantic unity with nato, this bloc, the nato bloc, they believe that this is a threat because if russia loses, then they are for with all these tools they will take care of china and the taiwanese problem, so now it is necessary to defragment at least the european union or to separate the european union from the united states, china will deal with this because it is a global player, it plays globally for our war is a regional war, and he is playing on a global level, as far as it is possible in principle to assume that china will act

independently on this page, maybe it will act together with brazil, whose president lulu ignacio dosilieva also says that it is necessary to put the parties to the negotiating table . i do not i know what they will agree on. the main thing is for them to sit down, maybe he will act together with france, because after guangzhou, it seemed that maneiller macron is counting on the efforts of xisinping, how will it look, and china is forming tools for victory in the combined states of america, the main negotiations. he believes that it is necessary to negotiate with the united states of america, and that is why he is preparing these tools. the first tool is the reduction of the influence of the united states in the middle east. when sisinpin arrived, he guaranteed the creation of a security system for those countries. procurement about the long-term purchase of energy carriers from that region, then the second instrument - this is russia , in fact, china absorbed it after the visit to

moscow, we saw that russia signed up there under the declarations, and china wrote there everything it wanted then in those declarations, it actually absorbed russia and through russia, as a permanent member of the council of security, as a nuclear country, it can influence certain topics there in these directions, in addition to latin america, we see that this peace platform what is the salt and there plans to collect will now collect supporters a-a that is , they have formed a platform to which the countries of the global rooster will join those who do not agree with the policy and who were silent and wavered and now an alternative plan 12 has appeared points of the chinese peace plan e peace platform and around this platform means supporters or followers of china will unite, i.e. china launches such tools which will then be used at the negotiating table by the united states of america in the same way in the asia-pacific region if it conducts bilateral e he does not

for example, he wants to talk through organizations and conducts conversations there with individual countries and uses the fact that everyone wants access to the chinese market, and in this way he taxes himself all the way around the entire perimeter with these tools and comes out with a strong victory position uh for talking with the united states of america on one or another topic it doesn't matter to him thank you mr. ruslana ruslana osypenko diplomats expert-international talked about china well now let's talk a little about israel with us mykhailo peliver, an israeli political scientist and public figure, i don't know if i said the accent of the surname correctly , i hope it 's correct. by the way, i should tell you that yesterday here in lviv, israeli ambassador to ukraine mikhail brodsky and lviv med andriy sadovy

opened a mural dedicated to the author of the israeli national hymn, hatikova naftolegia in your room, this is a special cultural event. this mural is connected with ukraine and israel so much, both good and bad, that we are actually in the 20th century in 2023, we should be very close, i suppose, friends and allies in the political sense, we are in the sense of the word eh, in fact, there are a lot of eh people who stood at the foundation of our state, they were, eh , or they started the exit of seven of those and many mystics who were in ukraine, eh, back in tsarist times, as far as possible in in principle, it is said that this is the survival strategy of israel for these 75 years, it can be perceived in one way or another by ukraine

, according to your opinion, in its current existence. uh , your uh, very serious and armed and strong enemies in the military sense and in the economic sense, that is, being surrounded by enemies is a big minus, but it has pluses because, in the end, you understand that you have no other allies than them, except that your people are your armies, your fleet is that's not why in this case i think by the way you don't have to react the current prime minister is the best. he formulated this principle that in order for israel to be strong militarily, we must have a strong economy, because the modern

armed army costs a lot of money, and in the end i think that in principle, the prospects for ukraine are very positive. let's just say that i don't see how in the near future the periphery on the perimeters of the geographical perimeter of israel , our enemies will cease to exist in your case. i think that the prospects positive because it is at least 3/4 ukraine is still surrounded by the allies of modern israel, what is it like if you explain to an ordinary ukrainian who inhabits israel because there are many or patricians from different countries and this is how it is possible to impoverish these people in one country the idea was to create

an israeli identity in israel . 30% came to israel, but of course, over the past 75 years, basically all residents of israel came from eastern europe, and not a few people came from strange countries. it is called north africa, a little bit from western europe and the united states , but the kostyak of israel at the beginning of the 8th century. these were, of course, the people who came, the people who survived the holocaust, who came from the strange soviet union . poles from ukraine are even more interesting, these

are interesting figures that 2/3 of the people are soldiers from the armies that fought in the war for independence in 1948. these were the survivors of the slag disaster, that is, these are people who did not have to explain why the jewish people should be an independent country. in the er country, which at that time was more like a desert, a politely modern branching economic state and with er weapons in hand defended against all odds against greatly superior arab er opponents the independence of our country today israel is a very colorful country in fact in some sense even multinational and even jews who make up about 75% of our population are jews who came from very

different corners of the globe yes, by the way, jews from ukraine who, as a result of the war, have become more fluent in ukrainian than in russian, there are a large number of immigrants from the countries of the former soviet union, will win by 15%. that is, he is one and a half million man, i assume that in the coming years israel will move to israel. you are still quite a significant number of new repatriates, and as a result of the war, and as a result of the situation in russia, and as a result, i assume anti-semitism, which raises its head not only in western europe, but also in of the united states of america, so i think that in the next few years, israel will probably change very significantly from the point of view of the demographics of the people who inhabit it, but tell me if it talks about future

political decisions, that's when in ukraine we are discussing the issue of the political solution of that war, which, by and large, was unleashed by russia, more experts now see no real practical political solution in the future , except for the fact that ukraine's entry into nato is also not guaranteed. allies. but if you are talking about the political solution of the middle east, because not long ago, according to the agreement of the node, they talked about the fact that two states for two peoples is a real formula that can be implemented жизнь сейчас в израиле проидстве, which, in principle, do not see the possibility of this kind of approach well, other israeli politicians with e-epticism were concerned with a similar solution , nevertheless, palestinian autonomy exists in its territory, rockets fly at least from the gas sector on the second part of these strings on the west bank regiordan, eh, is also impersonally enthusiastic about coexistence with the state of israel, and how many decades do you think this whole process can last in

such an unresolved way? b him no one can answer, in any case, our official e-e let's say so with e-e services that are engaged in serious and professional analytics suggest that e-e it is unlikely in the nearest review e future in the course of them i recently read analytics until 2048 when israel it will be 100 years . militarily independent and he must be attractive he owes it to his example that it is safe to live here, god forbid a terrorist act or a missile does not exceed

the chance of dying as a result of a road accident or plane crash, and in principle , this is how it is today, regardless of that that we very often hear about elaborate terrorist attacks and various excesses occurring in israel, after all, the fate of the israeli population, the israeli citizens who die in terrorist attacks, is insignificant and many times less than the number of people who die i repeat about the automobile accidents in the year eh yes or otherwise i today you correctly noticed that you are in the game country there are people who identify themselves as so-called conservatives, these are people who believe that they are not looking for the good, and here is the situation in which they are today they perceive it as the least evil eh that is eh this is an unregulated status eh the lack

of a permanent border very weak palestinian autonomy eh in principle the absence of a single palestinian leadership we do know that this and eh, the gaza strip is separate, the asking bank is regiordan and that's why, in this situation, israel, eh, do they use the beloved eh , let's say so, the beloved method of benjamin, they won't divide tonya's power, and many people today see the greatest threat to the existence of israel, the existence of an internal split you and i are throwing our society off at a time when mass demonstrations are taking place in tel aviv and other cities , this is almost the fourth month, when hundreds of thousands of people in israel go out on the streets every saturday to uh will speak out against the foreign government against those reforms that this government strives to pay for in life and

the israeli israeli society is basically split into two more or less equal parts. i would call them conditionally conservative or elected liberals who believe that religion is not there should be too much power in our country and conservatives who believe that on the contrary, i agree with the statement that our external threat is now over the society needs a consensus, it needs a consolidation , which from year to year is getting smaller and smaller, very many groups of the population in our society, in the last elections, which took place in november 2022 , believe that they were left behind and that they are not represented today in the current government except there is no one who stands at the head of the largest likut parties