[000:00:00;00] in principle , society is split into two more or less equal parts . i would tentatively call them conservatives and liberals. etymneem that our external threat is now eh to me eh essentially, what is the threat and eh from within our society is the last of the elections that took place in november 2022, they believe that they were left behind and that they are not represented today in the current and government in which, except for neamina netony agu, who is at the head of the largest

likut party, his best political allies are very extreme right-wing and religious elements in israeli society, this is the minister of national security, benq, the minister of finance, smotrych , and someone even calls them fascist elements , and many in the opposition, let's say, see these people as a big threat to their way of life with my conviction , my dialogues and uh, this is the split, this is the polarization that is observed in our society. in israel, we do not have a constitution, although in the declaration of independence in 1948, there was a promise that by the end of 1948, the constituent assembly

would accept the constitution . we live in a situation where everyone the new government changes laws under itself, this is quite a dangerous trend, and by the way, someone draws direct parallels with the incumbent of all power, not even with vladimir putin. the value from which our country moved away well, of course, i cannot draw any direct parallels between modern israel and russia, but there , somehow, people elect putin, no one elects, but at the same time, at the same time let's say so some dangerous tendencies may consist in the fact that a person who has been in power for two decades may at some point begin to believe that he is simply not replaceable and is the best

and only leader of the country. we all know that power corrupts absolutely. and tell me, please, this is the essence of a different judicial reform, if you can make a short one. why, actually , the current government is not satisfied with the courts. well-being well, in general, we have two of the most pressing questions, the disagreement is, first of all, who will appoint judges, the current coalition believes that politicians should have the opportunity to influence the appointment of judges to a greater degree, that is, this is the first question and the second question. the supreme court will cancel the laws adopted by our parliament. these are the two main issues on which the israeli society is divided. the current coalition and the current prime minister and the cabinet

of ministers believe that politicians should to have actions on the court on the court so that the court does not have the opportunity to cancel the laws passed by the king on the other hand, i repeat that as a result of the situation that we have 70 for 75 years, we live without the constitution, the only order of power that can, from time to time, besiege or limit the power of the government and the court. they, uh , went through some kind of red devil with us there is no president, i agree with my own powers, we don't have a constitution, we don't have a bicameral parliament, we also have a tradition , our political tradition is quite weak, and we are still in the process of developing

this tradition. i will just give you an example. what for almost 250 years the existence of america, the constitution there was changed only 27 times, and the 27th amendment has already been repealed. it was an amendment to a dry law in israel , institutions. years ago, the practice has already changed almost 70 times, that is, in our country, i repeat, at some point , politicians began to consider that laws they have the ability to change to suit themselves, and this imposed on, in principle, a very large polarization in which there is an ideological polarization that is happening not only in israel . we observe it in america and in european countries

. who came to power in 2016 using an infinite number of fakes eh and eh it was proven that 90% of the information that he presented to his voter eh was false shared the country tel-aviv this is mainly a country eh let's say that people eh are liberally minded who believe that the state should not intrude as little as possible into the personal lives of eh its citizens and the conventional country of jerusalem which eh which prays which eh believes that israel should preserve its religious

the jewish character is opposed to, for example , the lgbt marches, which is opposed to the future palestinian state, and so on . the only thing that can be said definitively is that liberals in israel are afraid of demographic trends today. religious jews, the so-called orthodox, which are easy to recognize by their characteristic clothing, make up about 15% of the israeli population, and according to the average , literally in one generation, in 25 years , they can already make up about 35-40%. and v in this situation, of course, the israeli economy and the israeli economy, and in principle, israel will look perfect. thank you. thank you. mykhailo mykhailovska, a political scientist and public figure. we were in touch until the meeting

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water is not enough drink reo you are ready ready because zreo reo water for special medical purposes de-occupation, you can live without july , the history of the liberated cities of ukraine is gone. let's see how our brothers helped us. they freed us from a normal life . people who resisted, residents came out here, stopped and sent back and became heroes of the novel was that of ukraine from the uk raine project in the cycle of deoccupation that saturdays

at 11:10 on espresso saturdays when the political club vitaliy portnik olesya vakulyuk, let's go back to avatar and continue our conversation. while there was a break, mr. vitaliy and i continued the topic of israel. vitaliy, i wanted to ask you a short question. in fact, israel is a country that actually called its own citizens . i was reading a story when the grandson of belarusian a jew who fled from the war ended up in ireland there. a strange story . how did he end up there? he was already born in ireland, too, and then he decided to go to israel, as in the country where they come from, and there he married a repatriate woman from chicago. now

ukrainians are scattered all over the world, will ukraine be able to return these people, or will there be a desire perhaps some of the grandchildren of those ukrainian refugees who ended up abroad and are already growing up there are being integrated into those countries because they are forced to do so, will they have any desire to return to that ukraine what will be there after the war, god forbid, after the victory , which we will rebuild, well, don't forget that the state of israel is primarily a political idea, a person who wants to live in israel generally recognizes its right to exist, she, well, obviously has i don't just have jewish roots, and i don't have jewish roots, i only have a clear political position, here i am. for as long as i can remember, i have always held to this political position, do jews have the right to their own state, and the same has always applied to ukrainians. i mean, i am with me i constructed this in my head as two inseparable things. you understand that

when there was a soviet union, there was no ukrainian state. i am a ukrainian state. to go to drain the swamps to die and die from er malaria from i don't even want to remember well, maybe we should remember what happened before 1948, we know a lot of what happened after the war, the struggle will build the state, but what happened in the previous 75 years is a tragedy of a much greater level right there there because people actually drove there realizing that they were shortening their lives . it was possible to live comfortably in israel only after the 60s and 70s of the 20th century, and until 1048 it was a struggle against the ottoman empire and great britain with

arab population hard life, poverty is huge well, there is a lot to tell here, that is, people if you went there and did not stay at home, especially if you are already in the united states , let's say, then you had a political idea that you want the jews to have their own state, but when we say that israel gathered these people from different parts of the world, definitely someone came from ukraine, someone from poland, someone from argentina and someone from ethiopia and i saw people many times when i came with some acquaintances of jewish origin and they asked me looking at the ethiopian jews falash dark-skinned let's say military personnel, do you think that they are the same jews as you and i am for and i did not understand the meaning of the question because of course i thought that we are the same jews which

because we share the same position the position of the right to the existence of the jewish state is not a matter of what color the skin is, the problem is that we agree with this idea they came to live i came not to live i came to visit but i share this idea do you understand this a great idea for a person who realizes the whole meaning state-building, and at the same time it must be understood that israel did not gather a large number of people. and here we saw from our israeli colleague mykhailo peliver, for whom israel is the center of jewish existence, and i hold the position of everything, but i once came to new york without it and walked around the city and i went to the jewish museum , a huge one. well, this is an ordinary jewish museum. i have seen jewish museums in many museums of the world, and i go from hall to hall . i reach the hall of the

holocaust. i see the inscription in english, of course, and after the second world war, jewry received two centers of civilization, the state of israel and the jewish community of the united states of america, that is, the people who live there consider the jewish community of the united states of america to be the same center of jewish life as the state of israel, and they reached the point that when we say jews they left the soviet union for jewish life, and the state of israel said that we will give you such money so that you can live and build your life, and the jewish community in the united states is exactly the same solution was issued for if they want to live not in israel but in the united states and it stopped only at the beginning of the 90s of the last century and all this great jewish

emigration that took place before that went to two, as a rule, these centers, that is, it can be you understand, there can be such a view. and this applies not only to the jews, it concerns, say, the irish , but what do you think the members of the irish cabinet of ministers do on st. patrick's day, they leave ireland, there are no irish government officials left communities around the world and prime ministers usually go to the united states of america because they believe that their centers are there, the largest community of irish people is there now , the president of the united states is an irishman. and who is speaking? i am irish, he is proud of it . a jew, and the president of the united states an irishman. until recently , you could see there the ukrainian prime minister of france

, petro beregov. well, this also speaks of how the world has changed, and i will say more, here we see this ukrainian emigration. its number will remain obvious and we will soon see in 20 years we will see the president of some ukrainian country, you know , or the prime minister, and there will be a lot because, according to the rules of the minority that comes in such difficult conditions, its main task is to climb the mountains, as it was already ukrainians were the heads of the state, the governor general of canada hnatyshyn is the head of the state when it was still the 90s of the 20th century, that is, it will be and so it will be normal for us to exist when the president of ukraine can be ethnic jews or crimean tatars or someone else and

the president who will come to us from another country and shake the hand of the ukrainian president is not an ethnic ukrainian will be an ethnic ukrainian and we just need to learn to live in this world because it is already like that therefore, on the one hand, we need to make efforts so that our compatriots who left during wars after the war returned from the other side, one must realize that the diaspora will increase by millions of people. well, this is simply an inevitable process , you can say any demographer there and people will come here who it does not sound strange, the majority of them will share exactly this political idea that you and i talked about when it came to israel , do you understand the idea of ​​ukrainian statehood ? people who have not left here will share this idea , because for those people who will return, i am calm if they return from the united states, from

france, from germany, from poland, from countries where it will be more comfortable to live than in ukraine, then in them there will be a look, you understand what they want to achieve, but those who did not leave here did not need to be determined and it may turn out that the majority of people who will remain here will not be connected with state-building ideas, they will be tied to the idea of ​​calm down calm down survive like this and it may be that our progress, i should not forget the electoral process

, will be provided by the votes of the diaspora. i always remember the elections in the republic of moldova. border districts where are the queues if there is a queue in moscow it is a disaster and there is a queue in bucharest and there is a queue somewhere in ireland and in some european countries people stand for hours this means that they will vote for pro-european parties and everyone says oh and why are they determining our fate we live here they went, and because many of them would like to return to european moldova and vote for those politicians who can create conditions for their return and life in a normal country, yes, people can vote for european democratic parties against populists against idiots who will certainly appear and will not go anywhere in order to return not immediately, but to a european democratic ukraine, you understand , because if we become members of the european union, we will not have questions about who will return and who will not return, we will be in the europe of our citizens will not be able to go to work in some other countries and come back. and

other europeans will come to us to work . have you seen this statement by a sociologist from the group rating e-e p oleksiy antipovich about the fact that this is a terrible question, what will happen if zelensky does not go for the second week, i see that the beautiful aphorism of the chairman of the state duma of the russian federation, mr. volohin, that there will be no putin, there will be no russia and forced to inform that russia will remain in one form or another after putin, but i think that it will even be somehow better without putin and we will be better off if russia is without putin and ukraine will be with the uh seventh eight ninth uh tenth president the president of wartime has a huge credit, the disadvantage of this credit of trust is that it can drop to zero in peacetime, this

happened to many political figures who actually burned their political career and their prospects in the e-e war memory that it can even be positive or to have a negative attitude towards volodymyr zelenskyi, but purely instrumentally, you need to realize that to some extent this is a sacrifice, that the political career and the person who leads the country during the war is a sacrifice. this is how it should be treated and it should be understood that a huge number of people who now look at zelenskyi with great trust and hope may change their point of view and look for some other heroes, there is nothing special about it. it is important that the next president of ukraine be a professional , competent person who was aware that

she would lead a seriously ill country after the war, poor, destitute with a huge number of problems with depressions with a huge level of crime and searching for answers to the questions and how realistic are the guarantees of our security and what to do with those people who have returned from the front and cannot find themselves and are in a state of severe depression and what to do with people who are crippled and destitute and what to do with people whose families have broken up as a result of all this separation and what to do with rural people economy if we join the european union and cannot have such a huge percentage of agricultural products of the agricultural sector because we simply will never get to which europe and what to do with these people who lost their working places e-e at metallurgical plants destroyed destroyed by the enemy and what to do with that and what to do with that and and what

to do so that people return and what can be done so that they do not return so quickly because we do not have money for them to exist here at all and what to do so that they don't leave. and what to do so that others don't leave because they are already ready. how can we make sure that men don't go to their wives and wives go to men from abroad, or maybe the other way around? let the men go because we don't have money for unemployment, that is, whatever - what a new president even if it is zelensky, he will live in a world of such problems, because the biggest problem will begin after him, because now there is a certain degree of military anesthesia. and when all sociologists are trying to signal something, it is the same as trying to analyze the state for a person who is not in a coma, but in a narcotic state, in a state of anesthesia, she is sleeping and you can describe her

, here she is, here she is, and this is the expression on her face, she closed her eyes, she must be thinking about something , but she will wake up from anesthesia. anesthesia of a person who has undergone an operation and it will hurt. when you are in a state of anesthesia, even local anesthesia, you do not feel pain. you know that the biggest problem begins even after a small operation . i am not talking about the seriousness when the anesthesia wears off. the day when a political solution to the conflicts will be reached, it may not be the one that the majority of our compatriots are counting on , unfortunately, as it may be, it will be the end of anesthesia and then the real sociology will begin , at the same time, it will also be explosive, that is, people will be from side to side from side to side just running over not understanding what is happening and we have to be ready for this because

there will be a huge conflict between healthy lutsk and insanity eh in society it will be in such a state but in such a state society is not easy he will give in to some kind of comforting talk, just like they are now talking about in marathons that we will rebuild , we will win, we will all return home, we will all be happy, not again, but in the post-war period , people will wait for a quick solution to others of problems they will think that they survived the war and deserve a better life where it sharpens, we will rebuild, we will do nothing , the only thing that worries me in this situation is that the peace party will definitely appear, this is a real threat, the peace party, whose leaders will say that you see, of course russia is the enemy there, it destroyed our country , it destroyed our life, murderers, rapists, but

they are our neighbors, they are not going anywhere , we need to find some ways of coexistence as neighbors if we do not want new rocket attacks, and the people who are there, relatively speaking oscillated through this country from the 14th to the 20th, the fourth, the fifth year, this is the party of war, they brought it to this point when they came to power, the war began and they promised that they would agree and the war was broken, but it was only worse. and we are the party of peace . we want to western europe, i am sure that this can be done by ensuring peace for you. a wonderful political program. i think that the vast majority of the population of the eastern and southern regions of ukraine will vote for this program. moreover, what you see now are dangerous trends. which i also do not like

i am worried and i really hope that the authorities are able to inspire a response. this is already a real church split because it is geographical. you can see how the regional councils in the western and central regions of our country and the northern ones, one by one, prohibit the activities of the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate or refuse to use the land. or they are closed by the churches of the communities there, they write e-e letters that they want to be a part of the ptu, they make such decisions. a precedent even in those regions most seriously affected by russian aggression. here an important question arises, if the government is unable to resolve the issue of the functioning of the russian orthodox church on ukrainian

soil, simply at the national level, we will have half of the country who will go to one church and half who will the other half of the country will celebrate christmas according to the new julian calendar, half of podolyansk , that is, even the holidays will be on different days in kharkiv, odessa and in kyiv lviv, you will be there. new year will be conditional. christmas will be on december 24, and there on january 7 you will move the language, not from rome. the calendar border . can you imagine what we can achieve in the coming years here? now we simply can't see them beyond these lines and this is a dangerously competent policy that, in order to save and

prevent this split, i think that it is necessary to limit the existence of the russian orthodox church in ukraine, it is necessary to demand from the ukrainian orthodox church of moscow to the patriarchate that it has clearly proven that it has no connections with the uoc mp, it is necessary to set specific requirements such as, say , the republic of latvia has set the latvian orthodox church. you must demand autocephaly. you must renounce any relations, even canonical ones. o it will be officially announced, you have to create create a single orthodox church with ptu in one or another, decide for yourself, decide for yourself as you want. well, fine, but if the uoc mp remains on the basis on which it exists today and its existence will lead to the split of ukraine well, it is also real, what can i say here and uh, i don't see any horror in this, it's not a terrible dream. i think that in the uoc mp there are many honest priests and parishioners who do not want