[000:00:00;00] uh, on that video plot that would have been partially shown, but the second thing that lukashenko is doing now is really desperately demonstrating to putin that the belarusians themselves did not support and do not support the war, so somehow he wants to at least distance himself from the war that putin is losing from the aggression for which putin and his regime will be condemned in the gas and from the aggression of the war, which destroys and as a result will destroy the russian economy and the regime itself, at the expense of which the lukashenko regime has survived until now. i mean putin, gas and so on, loans and lukashenko, who receives that russian gas for almost nothing, but also constantly applies for additional loans because the economy of belarus is also under sanctions and cannot survive under

such a government and under such a regime that currently exists in belarus, here are two things, two tasks that lukashenko is solving stories and such politics. thank you, mr. valentin, for the conversation. it was valentin nalyvaichenko, people's deputy of ukraine , former head of the security service of ukraine, friends , we work live on the tv channel espresso, as well as our social networks, in particular on facebook. well, we are praying now on the youtube channel for those who are currently watching us on the espresso youtube channel, and i encourage you to like this video, write comments about what you think about hearing and what was said in the program. join our espresso youtube channel sponsor club now you will see qr-codes by clicking on which you can join the respected espresso youtube channel sponsors club we will be

grateful for any help well and separately i want to tell you about our beautiful website espresso tv. please come to our website and read our news 24 hours a day, seven days a week. we are working for you . er, there is the front chronicle, you will find everything you want on our website , we are working for you, we are moving forward on our air, and we should be in touch with diplomat volodymyr yelchenko, former permanent representative of ukraine to the united nations, former ambassador of ukraine in the united states of america, volodymyr

good day. good health to you. thank you for joining our broadcast . good day, mr. sergey. good day, dear viewers. let's start our conversation , mr. volodymyr. during this month, we see how the russian federation has intensified its massive missile attacks on ukrainian territory, has it ever happened in the history of the united nations and the un security council when one of the main states now the head of the un security council is in charge of acting as an aggressor and killing civilians in front of not only all the un general assemblies but the whole world. of course , this never happened and could never happen because , unfortunately, the founding fathers of the united nations could not

and think in the 45th year, when the un charter was drawn up, that one of those countries was granted the honorary right of permanent membership in the security council and with it the right of veto. of course, one of the articles of the country will become the aggressor itself, and it is not only about ukraine and let's remember the series let's remember georgia, let's remember uh, um, not such an attractive role from russia in the regulation of some african conflicts. well, here and wagner , the central african republic are small, but now sudan, for example, viber is also actively activated there, who has opened a civil war, that is, there is just such an undisguised subversive russia's activities around the world, and at the same time it sits quietly, like security, you know the last thing. well, first of all, i will say that this month, the heads of russia,

did not bring anything special, that is, as i said it it repeatedly seems to us that you should not think that this presidency will give something to this or that she will use it in some way against ukraine, nothing of the kind happened because, in principle , it is even more difficult for him to preside, no wonder it sounds more difficult now bring up such integration issues, well, which may cause some problems or some heated discussion . instead, we heard during those debates that were organized in russia as the presiding party, the same criticism of russia from our partners and wrote at least this is the neutral, silent position of some other countries, such as the african members of the security council or the united arab emirates, which have their own position .

hopes were placed by the russian federation and the russian delegation to the un, he did not openly support russia, even in these debates, and now moving on to uh, well , actually speaking, uh, until this month, you know . personally, i still hoped that well, at least two-thirds or half of there are 8-9 members of the security council out of 15, because they at least organize some kind of light boycott of this from lavrov. it was very easy to do just during his speech when he opened all the meetings . last week, just insert and exit from the meeting hall yes this is what we did when we were in the security council by ourselves and ukraine was there. we, together with our partners, got up and left when , for example, he spoke on the issue of syria. well , for some reason they did not dare to do this, although it is absolutely not their concern er, well, of some kind

threats, especially the illegitimacy of this main body of the security council. well, this month, you know, it has turned into a requiem, you know, because now it has become clear to everyone what i am constantly repeating . i have the right, because i spent half of my career like this or otherwise, next to the organization of united situations, i believe that it is impossible to form this organization, it should simply be disbanded or that it quietly die by itself, because, from a political point of view, this organization is not capable of anything, so it does a lot to others let's say it's the market, there's humanitarian issues, there's the codification of international law, a lot of conventions, there's climate protection, all this is important , but you know, probably the protection of fish and carp inside, well, with all due respect to the king fish , to the world ocean, it's still not all threats so direct that today we see not only in ukraine, but everywhere a foot has reached

a russian. whether it is wagner or not wagner or just a russian politician everywhere - this destruction is turning into horror, chaos and cutting into the system of collective security that has existed for so long and difficult to create in the 45th year of the last century, that is, mr. vladimir, do you think that the fate of the league of nations awaits him, but before the league of nations disappeared from the legal concept, from the organizational concept, they still excluded the union from their organization. in 1939, when the ussr attacked finland, that is, but well, you can't the un, let's say, be silent for 10 years since the attack of russia on ukraine and now make a decision there to exclude russia well , at least on a formal basis, because russia in the un takes the place of the ussr because they

declared themselves the legal successors well and got this place well, at least it is legal to somehow justify the throwing out of the throwing zone in russia, and then you can put an end to these organizations, well, you know, if you compare the current time with those years before the great world war, then it was easier to make serious political decisions because that then the league of nations included 50 plus or minus countries, er, now the un is a universal world organization, there are 193 member countries, that is, in fact, all the states of the world, well, except for some unrecognized ones, such as palestine. for example, if what the lpr and the dpr are not recognized, but there are all kinds of states that are not considered states by some countries, so it is the result of the whole world in one way or another, but this plus and minus is a plus because it is

universal and coverage of everyone's interests, and the downside is that it is very difficult to agree on any issue, especially such a complex one as the role of russia's actions, eh. yes, we already have a whole thread of resolutions of the un general assembly that directly condemn all the things for the war in ukraine with solutions to this war, but yes or no otherwise, you know when it comes to more serious matters, and more of it will be handled by the security council. because only the security council has the right to take these decisions and approve them, which are mandatory for all countries of the world, but here there is this bloc of russia, the veto rule, and it will not give the possibility of passing any resolution that will be directly directed against the russian federation itself. but i think that these two processes that you mentioned , that is, on the one hand, well, let's say

the gradual withdrawal of the un from the political arena and the expulsion of russia and these organizations. this will be to take place in parallel, certain processes are already underway, they have not yet led to results. we may simply not yet see this work, which is being conducted, including by ukrainian diplomacy, which is aimed at somehow expelling zasy from the un. we cannot talk about exclusion , since we we believe that russia was never a member and simply took the place of the former soviet union illegally and without grounds , but to freeze or suspend the powers of russia or the russian delegation 19 it is possible it is possible to do the decision of the mineral assembly this it can be done through the committee on powers that exists in the general assembly, it can even be done by the security council, which has its own procedures and the rules of the procedure are written. for example , if nine or more countries, that is, more

members of the security council, raise the issue and vote to deprive the russian delegation is fully represented in this body , the decision will be made, since this decision is procedural and not political, and the right to enter the dish decision does not apply. and you just need to get nine 15 votes, that is, a majority, everything is possible there are other ways. it seems to me that we have already said this on our electronic broadcasts , for example, to turn to the international court of the united nations with a request to clarify whether the law before this is actually part of the united nations. but again, russia simply does not recognize the decision of the international court of justice and no one doubts what it will be because all the legal arguments say that russia does not find membership in the united nations. well, finally, i say one thing that few people were happy about

. the state considers itself a member of this organization, the parliament of this country must ratify the un charter, have you ever heard of it? look for the state duma or the federation council . he wrote in the statute that after that they can answer in their own time, if this is so, then you can question all the decisions that were voted with the participation of russia starting from the 91st year in the organization of the united nations is correct no, well, first of all, there is uh well, let's say, well, this is one of the main rules , we do not have any right that the law does not have retroactive effect well, not only international law and national law also have it, and secondly

, remember in 1971 when the resolution was approved first by the security council and then by the distant assembly, which expelled the un or deprived the republic of china of the right to un membership, this is what is called taiwan today, and the people's republic of china was adopted in its place, no one questions all the votes 46- th to the 81st like the last century, where the republic of china, or taiwan, voted and it sat exactly the same in the case of security, was just the same as a permanent member, and by the way, this is also a matter of the un charter, until now even such purely cosmetic things are not accepted there , for example, japan and germany recorded as enemy states, that's how it was recorded in the 45th year. that's what i left, or there is a list of all five permanent members of the security council, and among them the union of soviet soviet republics and the republic of china, that is, taiwan. and where are all

the countries? what do you exist today, how do they exist? can remain in the charter. here you go and all the reform of the un, if even such things cannot be done, no one wants to touch anything because everyone is afraid of a precedent, and instead we get such a month, heads of russia, when you just know it’s a shame, you know, i don’t think so from a sociological point of view, the permanent representatives of the united states of america, england, france, and other countries who sat next to lavrov with this warlike feeling and did nothing but make beautiful speeches felt so good. so we are grateful for the support we are grateful for such a position towards russia with the support of ukraine, but you can't just limit everything to potential and beautiful things . by the way, there is help with weapons, there are many other things, but within the framework of the un, it seems to me that we

should have a much larger and strong support for our position. unfortunately, this does not happen when we talk about generally accepted rules and international agreements about international agreements, of course the russian federation always says that they do not follow the rules because who wrote they don't know, well at least putin talks about it very often , and just a few days ago, the kremlin dictator spoke in the tauriy palace in front of legislators on the occasion of the day of parliamentarism, he again repeated his words about observing the rules established by the world. he is not going to listen to our partners and you can already say that ex-partners in some countries, we wantonly destroy the legal base and the channels of dialogue are asking about the visa - with all their views

and so-called rules, what are the rules already i talked a lot and no one saw who wrote these rules. you write fake rules yourself on mondays. they do it audibly there, but we didn’t fix it, but we won’t study these rules . we also don’t gather, they don’t look . we won't get under the covers either. and you were the ambassador of ukraine to russia, and you spoke with him. you saw these people who are smiling in the hall, sitting and clapping their hands . which ones at all the rules are not the rules and they live according to their own concepts there and do what they want, or is it acquired in the course of the war? they understand a certain impunity and

they did not set certain boundaries for them in time there. i think that's exactly because... yes, i don’t see the inadequacy of this. well, lately i have met or talked with these people, and in fact, no one has changed there, all of them have remained . so you also have the difference between democracy and autocracy in the territory of the iron age. you can name many politicians in ukraine who they were in 2010-11 and still remain today, well, there are some. but they are not in power, and in moscow , they all sat down somewhere at the beginning of the zero years there. well, when putin took back the presidential chair from medvedev again, putin has been around since then no one has changed there, well, except for some cosmetic changes, the government, yes, all these faces, all this delusion, who are we hearing today, i don’t think that these people were inadequate then their lives forced

them to become inadequate, because they are all , well, you know, not all of them are headless there though there are many intelligent people among this so-called russian elite who perfectly understand and realize what may await them, so do they hope that such a great invincible russia will never surrender, no one will ever defeat her, she cannot lose and that they will all be alive and well but you know, that’s what all those wounds, all the autocrats thought, and where did they end up, remember progoloshevich or gaddafi or the president of iraq ? exits, it forces them to begin to believe in the delusion that they invented for themselves and now they themselves uh well, they multiply, if

you can use such a term, you know this is how they talk about and the more a child lies, well, in this way, you know, in childhood, the more she begins to believe that it is true, but they themselves screw everything up for themselves. and if we talk about putin, look at him and this has already been proven absolutely clearly, he has never used the internet in his life, he does not sit on social networks, like 99% of normal people uh, he watches tv here, 3-5 russian programs of the main channels or channels, and he is carried these folders with documents with some reviews of the press, that is, it turns out that he produces an information product himself with these statements of his, this magic, then it is all broadcast on those channels that he himself is already watching and they are watching uh, this is his environment and in this way the circle closes, that is, all these

lies it turns back and they live in this invented by themselves in the world uh, not seeing what is happening in reality or they don't want to see because after all there is intelligence, there are sources of information. i think that this information is simply not there. i don't want to believe it, and it's even easier just not to look at it. and live in this fictional world where black is white and the truth is a lie and vice versa. well like orwell 1984, we have already gone through it 100 times, volodymyr, another challenge for putin will be the brics meeting in august 2023. literally in a few months. a week ago, cyril aromaphosa, the president of the south african republic , instructed the government committee to study the question of whether may putin fly in despite the international criminal court warrant, ramaphosa spoke a few weeks ago about the fact that well, in

principle, it is putin who will arrest him, but today we congratulate everyone , the south african editorial office wrote about the fact that the authorities of the south african republic informally warned russia , which will be forced to arrest the russian dictator on the warrant of the international criminal court, can these events, such reports , change putin's behavior when he realizes that he is apart of kyrgyzstan and several countries central asia well, maybe china , he will not be able to go anywhere because there is already an order for his arrest, hand it over actually, it is already happening well, you know, you can have a unanimous opinion against the dynamo-african republic, someone may not like the whole country, but it is a democratic country

and the main thing is that he is the leader of africa and this country simply will not allow himself even if there is some politician there. is it the president or the opposition, if he wants to please putin and russia, pay off some old debts, maybe old ones, then it’s all the same to you. you know, this means going against public opinion, and in general, even the majority , even on the african continent, whatever it may be with all its shortcomings and difficulties, but these are countries, this is the continent - this is the organization of african unity or african allies , it is now called they have their own ideas just like us, we have no right about the educational system and they don't want to take such risks to please putin, so i think that , you know, in addition to political will, you also have to keep

in mind the following, and here, open the map the world and look. and how about it, putin was going to fly to the south african republic, even if, for example , they did not warn him there and did not say anything about his arrest . well, you have to fly halfway around the world, you have to make some landings somewhere, this is the airspace of other countries, and who will miss this one a plane with a war criminal who is under an arrest warrant and the same thing. by the way, the same can be said about kyrgyzstan, because it will not fly there, well, through space. so i think that putin is actually already well, soon he already you know, the new man will not go anywhere because he is already afraid to fly in russia . he won't take you there . let's see what the parade will be in moscow on the ninth of may. how will he get there ? he is already afraid of our drones. so, i think that he already has all the reasons to fear for his life, and his own personal

life, and for his environment, so that every day , the whole understanding of awareness will increase, and this is also in our favor , mr. volodymyr ishche finally one topic very short and it concerns the pope of rome, he suddenly announced the secret mission of the vatican after the end of the war, the guardian writes about it that pope francis said that he participated in a peacekeeping mission to try to end the conflict between russia and ukraine, he is ready to do everything that needs to be done, the mission is currently underway but it is not made public yet. when it becomes public and i make it public, i think that peace will always be achieved by opening channels. you will never be able to achieve peace by closing channels. it is not easy," he said. how about you? what kind of mission are you thinking about and what is it about considering the position of pope francis during the entire

period of the large-scale invasion of russia into ukraine, you know , of course, the details are unknown to me, you can only guess, but in fact, i am almost sure that it is about a certain such humanitarian role. or a role in some humanitarian issue? well, for example, another exchange of prisoners of war, we know that for many months, well, since the very beginning of the war, and even still in the active phase of the war, or the 14th year out of 15, the whole at the time, there were conversations about the all-for-all formula, that is, to make it possible to exchange all those citizens of ukraine who have been held captive for several years and some for a few months under absolutely inhumane conditions . we already know that. therefore, it is possible that this is a certain mediating role of the vatican in

such an exchange between others. as far as i know, i cannot confirm this, but i heard such a version that there was a certain role of the vatican, do you remember in the first exchange between the release of our prisoners from mariupol, there were several hundred injured and sick people, they were released from russia, our program is coming to an end, forgive me, i have to cut you short, because i have my own schedule. thank you for participating in the program. volodymyr yelchenko, a diplomat, was a guest of our program today, friends. health take care of yourself and your loved ones tomorrow we will meet as usual at 1:00 p.m. there will be a new verdict there will be new topics goodbye pain can become an obstacle codes not with my

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draw conclusions yourself dear tv viewers time to learn about important events at this moment i will start this episode from zhytomyr oblast during the last large-scale alarm enemy drone a kamikaze hit an industrial facility in zhytomyr oblast. the explosion went off in the morning, the regional military administration said there were no casualties or damage, data on the destruction another traitor was detained in odesa region, an enemy informant leaked information about the defense of factories and industrial facilities to the occupiers, the sbu informs the sbu, the attacker turned out to be an employee of one of the local chemical plants , the man used