[000:00:00;00] the economy and the regime itself, thanks to which the lukashenko regime has survived until now. i mean putin, gas and so on, and loans and lukashenko, who receives that russian gas for almost nothing, but also constantly applies for additional loans, because the economy of belarus is also in belarus under sanctions and in principle cannot survive under such a government and under such a regime that currently exists in belarus, these are two things, two tasks that lukashenko solves with such plots and such politics. thank you, mr. valentin, for the conversation. it was valentin nalyvaichenko, people's deputy of ukraine, former head of the security service of ukraine, we work as friends live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our social networks , in particular on facebook. well, we are praying now on the youtube channel for those who are currently watching us

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our air, and we are in touch with to be a diplomat, volodymyr yelchenko, a former permanent representative of ukraine in the organization of the united nations, the former ambassadors of ukraine to the united states of america, volodymyr good day good health to you thank you for joining our broadcast good day, mr. serhiy good day, dear viewers, i am having a conversation about a fairly simple question, today it is exactly er and not simple at the same time today is exactly one month since russia began to preside over the un security council. during this month, we see how the russian federation has intensified shelling, massive missile attacks on ukrainian territory, or anything like that in the history

of the united nations and the un security council. when one of the main states that currently manages the un security council, the head of the un security council acts as an aggressor and kills civilians in front of not only the un general assembly, but the whole world. of course, this has never happened and could not happen, because unfortunately the founding fathers of the united nations could not even think in the 45th year , when the un charter was drawn up , that one of those countries in which they were granted the honorary right of permanent membership in the security council and together with it the right of veto is sad. and here it is no longer the case only about ukraine, but let's remember the series, let's remember georgia, let's remember uh, uh, not so attractive role from russia, uh, in the regulation of some african conflicts, uh, well, here and

wagner, the central african republic is small , but now the courts, for example, viber is actively included there who is the civil war that is being opened, that is, there is simply such undisguised subversive activity of russia all over the world, and at the same time, this country is sitting quietly as if it is safe, you know the last thing. as i said it repeatedly, it seems that in our broadcasts with you that you should not think that this is the presidency , will it give something to this or will she use it in some way against ukraine, nothing of the kind has happened because , in principle, the chairman is even difficult as it is not it sounds strange, now it is more difficult to bring up such controversial questions, well, which can cause some problems or some heated discussion. instead, we heard during these debates, which russia organized as

the chairman, the same criticism against russia from our partners and at least this well, the neutral , silent position of some other countries, such as the african members of the security council or the united arab emirates, who have their own position. they try to be equidistant. china, on which the russian federation and the russian delegation to the un had placed so much hope, he did not openly support russia even in these debates, and now they are moving on to well. actually , until this month, you know i personally i still hoped that at least two-thirds or half of the 8-9 members of the security council out of 15 would at least organize such a simple boycott of lavrov

. it was very easy to do it’s just visible during it, because when he opened all the meetings. last week, just put in and leave the meeting hall like this. that’s what we did when we were in the security council ourselves and ukraine was there. we and our partners got up and left when , for example, he spoke about syria they don't dare to do that though it would absolutely not bring any threat to them, let alone the negativity of this main body of the security council. and this month, you know, it has turned into such a requiem, you know, because now it has become clear to everyone what i keep repeating, i have this right because i have spent half of my career in one way or another. i believe that this organization will be formed, it is impossible to simply disband it or for it to quietly die by itself, because from a political point of view, this organization

is incapable of anything. so it does a lot others uh let's say, princesses, there are humanitarian issues, the codification of international law, many conventions, there are climate protection, all this is important, but you know, probably, the protection of fish and corals of all kinds, well, with all due respect, dear princesses, to the world ocean, this is still not all threats of such a direct today we see not only in ukraine, but everywhere the russian reached his feet. whether it is wagner or not wagner or just a russian politician , everywhere this destruction is turning into horror, chaos and cutting down the system of collective security, which was created so long and so hard in 1945 that is, mr. volodymyr, you think that the fate of the league of nations awaits him, but before the league of nations disappeared from the legal concept, from the organizational concept, they still excluded the soviet union

from their organization. in 1939, when the ussr attacked finland, that is , but you can't the un let's say we have been silent for 10 years since the attack of russia on ukraine and now to make a decision there about the exclusion of russia well, at least on a formal basis because russia takes the place of the ussr in the un because they declared themselves the legal successors well, they got this place well at least it is legally possible to somehow justify the throwing out of the zone in russia, and then you can put an end to these organizations , well, you know, if you compare the current time with those years before the great world war, then it was easier to make serious political decisions because then before the league of nations it included 50 plus or minus countries, er, now it is a universal world organization, there are 193

member countries, that is, in fact, all the states of the world , well, except for some unrecognized ones such as palestine , for example, if it is not what is not known, it is not show that the lpr and the dpr are not recognized there are 55 sessions, but there are, let's say, states that , er, some countries are not considered states, so it is one way or another the result of the whole world and but er, this plus and minus is a plus because it is universality and coverage of interests all of them, and the downside is that it is very difficult to agree on any issue, especially such a complex one as the role of russia's actions, eh. yes, we already have a whole thread of resolutions of the un general assembly , which are all directly condemned for things related to the war in ukraine with the development the beginning of this war, but yes otherwise, you know when it comes to more serious matters, and more of it will be handled by the security council. because only the security council has the right to make or approve

decisions that are binding on all countries of the world, but here there is this block of russia, the veto rule, and it will not give the possibility to evade any resolution that will be directly directed against the russian federation itself. but i think that these two processes that would say, that is, on the one hand, well, let's say so, the gradual withdrawal of the un from the political arena and the expulsion of russia and these organizations this will happen in parallel, processes are already underway, certain processes have not yet led to results. we may simply not yet see the work that is being carried out, including by ukrainian diplomacy, which is aimed at somehow expelling the seeds from the un. we cannot talk about exclusion since we believe that russia was never a member and simply took the place of the former soviet union illegally and without grounds

, it is to freeze or suspend the powers of russia or the russian delegation for themselves 19 this it is possible to make a decision of the mineral assembly, it can be made through the committee on powers that exists in the general assembly, it can even be made in the security department, where there are procedures and the rules of the procedure are written. for example, if there are nine or more countries, that is, more members of the security council raise the issue and will vote to deprive the russian delegation completely of this in the body, the decision will be made because this decision is procedural and not political, and the right to enter does not apply to the tableware decision a it is necessary to get just nine 15 votes, i.e. a majority, this is all possible, there are other ways, uh, i think we already talked about them on our broadcasts, for example, to turn to the international court of the united nations uh, with a request

to clarify whether the law actually exists before this as part of the united nations but again, russia simply does not recognize the decision of the international court of justice and no one doubts what it will be because all the legal arguments are not in favor of russia's membership in the united nations. well, i finally say one river which little who betrayed the charter? and if the state considers itself a member of this organization, then the parliament of that state must ratify the un charter . have you ever heard of it? look for the state duma or the federation authority. there is such a thing, they can occupy a place, that is, they are the only 193 ukrainians in the world where the parliament of the country has never relied on the statute, how after that can they consider themselves members of volodymyr

, if this is so, then you can question all the decisions that were voted with the participation of russia since 1991 in the organization of the united nations are correct no, well, first of all, there is uh well, let's say, well, this is one of the main rules, we have no right that the law is not retroactive well, and not only international the right and the national right, it is also there, and secondly, remember in 1971, when a resolution was approved first by the security council and then by the far assembly, which expelled the un or deprived the republic of china of the right to membership in the un, this is what is called taiwan today, and it was adopted instead chinese the people's republic no one questions all the votes from the 46th to the 81st of the last century where the republic of china or taiwan voted and she sat in the security council in the same way and was a permanent member in the same way, and by the way, this is also related to

the issue of the un charter until now, even such purely cosmetic things are not accepted there, for example, japan and germany are recorded as enemy states , that's how it was recorded in the 45th year. republics and the republic of china, i.e. taiwan. and where are all the countries they are? what do you exist today, how can they remain in the charter ? here is the entire reform of the un. if even such things cannot be done, no one wants to touch anything because everyone is afraid of a precedent. well, in return , we get such a month, bigots. russia, when you just know it's a shame, you know, i don't think that, from a sociological point of view, the permanent representatives of the united states of america, england, the screen and

other countries that sat next to lavrov with this with military sentiments and did nothing but beautiful performances. yes, we are grateful for the support. we are grateful for such a position towards russia with the support of ukraine, but you can't just limit everything to potential and beautiful. by the way , there is help with weapons, there are many other things, but within the framework of the un it seems to me that this is the case, we should have much stronger and stronger support for our position. unfortunately, this does not happen when we talk about generally accepted rules and international agreements about international agreements, of course the russian federation always says that they don't follow the rules because they don't know who wrote them, well, at least that's what putin talks about very often, and just a few days ago, the kremlin dictator spoke in the tauriy palace in front of the legislators

on the occasion of the day of parliamentarism, he again repeated to the mandras about following the rules established by the world. he is not going to hear our partners and it is already possible to say that former partners. in some countries, we are recklessly destroying the legal base and channels of dialogue . talked and no one saw who wrote these rules, here they write fake rules and they themselves fake accounts with it there, but we did it, but we will not study these rules, but i am not going to look at them. i don’t know what putin is doing under the blanket . and we won't get under the covers either. and you were the ambassador of ukraine to russia, and

you spoke with him. you saw these people who are smiling in the hall, sitting and clapping their hands . which ones at all the rules are not the rules and they live according to their own concepts there and do what they want, or is it acquired during the war ? let's put it this way, i don't see the inadequacy of this. well, lately i've met or talked with these people, and in fact, no one has changed there, everyone has remained . so you also have the difference between democracy and autocracy with different ones. you can name many politicians in ukraine who were in 2010-11

but they are not in power, and in moscow they all sat down somewhere at the beginning of the zero years. well , when did he take back the presidential chair from medvedev again? putin has been no one since then. did not change, well, except for some cosmetic changes, all these faces, all this delusion that we hear today, i don’t think that these people were inadequate then their lives forced them to become inadequate , because they all, well, you know, not all of them are headless, after all, there are many among this yes among the so-called russian elite, there are intelligent people who understand him perfectly, are aware of what may await them, do they hope that such a great invincible russia will never surrender, no one will ever defeat her, she cannot lose and that they will all be alive and well, but you know that

thought all those wounds, all the autocrats, uh, and where did they finish, remember that not loshevich or gaddafi or the president of iraq, all of them, well, and you can continue. thus, i think that this sense of hopelessness or hopelessness makes them start to believe in the delusion that they came up with it themselves and now they themselves uh well, they are multiplying if you can use such terms, you know how they say about children , the more a child lies, well, in this way, in childhood, the more she begins to believe that it is true, but they are themselves and if we talk about putin, look at bin and this has already been proven absolutely clearly, he never uses the internet in his life, he does not sit on social networks , like 99% of normal people, he watches

3-5 russian programs on tv main or channels and they carry these folders with documents with some kind of press reviews, that is, it turns out that he produces an information product himself with these statements of his, this magical one, then it is all broadcast on those channels that he himself already watches and is watched by his entourage and in this way, the circle closes, that is, all these lies come back and they live in this world invented by themselves, not seeing what is happening in reality or do not want to see it, because after all, there is intelligence. information design i think that this information is simply not there. i don't want to believe it and it's even easier just not to watch it and live in this fictional world where black is white and the truth

is a lie and vice versa. volodymyr, another challenge will be for putin, this brics meeting in august 2023. literally in a few months. a week ago, cyril aramphosa , the president of the south african republic , instructed a government committee to study the question of whether putin can fly despite the order of the international criminal court. a few weeks ago he spoke about the fact that well, in principle, it is putin who is going to arrest him, but today the sun-d-times , the south african editorial office wrote about the fact that the authorities of the south african republic informally warned russia that it will be forced to arrest the russian dictator on an international warrant of a criminal court, can such events, such reports, change putin's behavior when he realizes that