[000:00:00;00] prigozhyn expresses his opinion that it is very difficult for wagner to withstand the attacks of the armed forces of ukraine due to the shortage of ammunition . however, it is so that i will gather my mercenaries and just leave there . we used to make such loud statements, at least. well , not so often. have you heard how seriously you can take this, is it not part of an informational and psychological special operation or is it in these statements that they are aimed at an internal russian user? with these problems, our apparatus , our struggle between them, between them, the ministry of defense of the russian federation did not go anywhere, and let me call it the opening of the year for the russians, e-e, the vice -opening of the year for the russians, because according to our all-russian survey in january , when we would

they asked who became the opening of the year in russia for you in 2022 for a joke there conditionally there the first choice there 20% of cadres 16 beautified a-a and er-e our most recent data , that’s the only one we got this april study in russia er-e only there about 20%. i don't know that he is such a handsome man, and the rest of those who know him , the majority of them , well, they treated him positively research and, accordingly, he already believes that he has the weight to declare and threaten that they are killing their own people, that is, leaving the position is essentially desertion from the front, and he is sure that nothing will happen to him for this, so he is sure that in he already has the weight where he can blackmail

the ministry of defense and there will be nothing for it, you said it was a beautiful discovery, can the closure of the beauties over, in particular, because of this conflict of changes happen, let’s see, you know . to be honest, i’m not surprised at all, especially when it’s happening. well, he’s talking about this so-called projectile famine. to catch up with him. he has been talking for a long time, not for the first month. but he made such a fuss on the first. i think that it may be on one side, you know, 50 for 50, or he is so confident and there are no excuses . well, let's say there are political weights or there are are you really political, oleksandr? do you think that the kremlin and , again, it is directly visible in the face of that sheik react to such popularity in second place after kadyrov, just that kadyrov was still in second place for a long time, it is agreed because of their competition, well, how is the kremlin in general perceives such popularity, because we see that well , if shoigu has a legal status, he is the minister of defense, he is close to putin, then prigozhin is just some kind of business, yes, for the most part

, a former prisoner who has now become more popular than the minister of defense, but about that well, first of all, the prices, first of all, he is dressed or not dressed, he didn’t become like that for a reason, he was a businessman who decided to create a military company, we understand that it is also entropored in the general russian vertical of power, and we we understand that such statements cannot be made without one's approval. that is, we can say with you that he is popular there, that he is indeed one of the most quoted in the russian media environment, even though he was not given access to federal channels, that is before he was permanent, he was included now after them , nevertheless, right there , the question is about the popularity , the question is about the popularity of one viewer, one viewer’s name is putin, respectively. things we remember that, unlike the ministry of defense, thanks to the simply crazy loss of personnel, and he talked about his effectiveness that

, look, only we, and not the russian army, join andrii in our conversation kuzinchuka, a military psychologist, we congratulate you, mr. andriy, hello, hello, and also wonderful . also, in contact with us is dmytro grumakov, a sociologist, an expert in communication of the international center for countering international aggression, congratulations, mr. dmytro, congratulations, mr. dmytro, let's start by asking you about this beautiful media, what was she so noticeable right away and now a little er s- have gone down. what is this connected with, what in particular do you connect it with? well, first of all , it is connected er with the fact that wagner has not been able to for

the ninth month there yes to take pakhmut these terms who gave themselves to their activity, they have already all left and thus the handsome man loses his influence a-a in let's say this cooperative moment lake yes there in which he is involved and thanks to which he can create it in general . do you also support it his fighting capacity and the saturation of people and my viewers in our viewers simply will not forgive us, mr. dmitry, if we ask you for more details about the corporate lake, we know that this is a closed certain club as a secret community , please tell us in more detail , it is really a closed club of the russian elite, which in fact, it is the ruling decision-making center in russia, and without

the consent of which even putin, in our opinion, cannot make any less important decisions , because besides putin, mr. dmytro once again, who is there besides putin and dmitry according to your information according to your information well, according to our information, there are people close to him, such as the same prigozhin, and there is dmitry, the former president. the heads of e-e russian special services also enter there

a-a that is, it’s such a-e well a-a or let’s say one of the elite districts, yes, well, well, well, further from one of the small towns there , key businessmen go there, the same, the same, the same. mr. andriy, can i ask you a question? before this, we talked about the popularity of prigozhina, so much for the twisted person, second place , and in the ranking among ordinary russians. andriy , what are you? you can you explain where the arms and legs come from andrii well, they came up with it in general well, i don’t know if it’s a beautiful car of people or who will take prisoners well, and

send them to war, well, such a cleansing and, uh , the boys from the outback will be able to stay alive longer, and they have him he gave me hope for the key and hope is such a powerful thing and a very cool idea, it’s cool, but i don’t even know it, it’s brilliantly simple and from here he was, he was strongly implemented, but after he began to shriek like this information, well, with a hammer, with torture, then didn't like it the world community, and the russians were not happy either, because there should be some kind of limit anyway. well, the third plus for them is conflicts with those who have fled to the feedlot

. they are not fighting much for the popularity of the peoples. already, well, this kind of thing started, then because of these conflicts, he fell in popularity. well, anyway, from the beginning, why is he such a delicious russian, and his image is this one, he is simple , he is simple, he does not have any clever phrases, he is not a politician, he is not deputies, uh, no, huber. that is, you can't blame him for the fact that the roads are not built and that the toilet is near the barn and he is not cleaned . he's such a handsome guy who was able to do it and it's just a dream, that is, a bit that could have been too much they looked at the prince and they looked at him like this and i can be like that and that's all, because everyone associates with himself, and here in the role of this poor girl, the handsome man himself turns out or something. well, of course he is into

some girls, then who is putin prince putin , it's interesting to play with you here, katya answer once one audience the same well russian people mr. oleksandr you said that last year you will still talk about insults i see what you have what to add yes why do i come to agree with you that he is losing popularity again uh with our monitoring for with the help of special software for the media, we also analyze e-e media actually russian and social networks, which is very important, so despite the fact that he was told on the federal channel , he, his citations, his mentions did not fall, on the contrary, they increased. and he, by the way, his

well, such a recruitment peak disappeared for the first week of this year when this er-er christmas vacation a-er when well traditionally it is silence he was er-er the person who in russia was second only to putin because putin putin putin putin and he is always behind our monitor is among the top five most cited bursts there are either shoigu, if he is there, the army, say something or medvedev, the whole world is in ruins there, but he is a passer-by, he constantly produces these bursts of information, this is the first and second why is he so popular already to agree colleagues, i will only add that according to our research, we began to study such a phenomenon as the criminal consciousness of russians when well, it seems that there is a law, but the law is not very correct there, we asked yes and we asked what is closer to the russians is it based on fresh data the law must always be obeyed or the force is real and must be obeyed they don't even hear the law

yet 61% answered that the power is in the truth this one do you remember this thesis - this is a thesis from this crown what is the strength brother yes and this deep people and he in himself it carries this thesis and this is all this instruction and beauty is just a reflection or all that, accordingly, he appeals to this and this is also one of the main reasons why he is such a popular psychologist, can you help figure it out? we say that russians appreciate this prison, a certain romance i understand that, yes. it is because of this that it is possible and i like prigozhin . however, he regularly goes to the investigative committee of the same one and writes complaints about his competitors and political figures. that is, by and large, if indicate already well, they are puzzled, yes, this is strange

behavior for such people , for a person who positions himself exactly as there plowed no. on the contrary, this is a very logical behavior. and finally they are sitting there in their seats and the only normal person is a handsome man who came and restored justice. that's because he is the truth because he is with the people and he likes him because for him if you look at russia from the eyes of a russian, it's simple mega dude who is the only one who can do something to them too it seems that putin looks at all this and thinks well done, handsome, for bringing order to me here rishala yes yes well, we understand that everyone has a certain dynamic of popularity, and even now, for example. surely the dynamics of popularity is beautiful, it is directly

related to the battles there -e mercenaries for the city of bakhmut, in particular, and his confrontation with the ministry of defense also probably gives certain points , because the officials, in particular, and the military leadership, well, for the people, maybe they are not so close. of the people called prigozhyn, but we always see this dynamic of silage and decline. what do you think? for example, if the situation will remain the same as it is now , that is, there will be battles for bakhmut. popular that in the dynamics of the first when we first conducted research in russia in december last year, it was the first wave , 40% did not know it. now less than 20% of them did not know who he was. i.e., its unrecognizability halved and accordingly increased number, no one knows who it is to know their deputies, they may not know their ministers, you know, and this is, first of all, secondly

, regarding er, you say, can military factors influence him on his a-a decrease in his support well, we see that already we started our discussion with the fact that he says that they don't give us shells, they put sticks in our wheels, this is already a long-standing conflict, they don't let us fight, and we would otherwise win, so i don't think that this will be the main main production of information reasons in addition ot look, one of the most quoted names. in addition to prigozhina's last name, it was not the russian army, but wagner, that was mentioned all these months, and in fact, wagner changed the russian army with her . this is of course. the non-state military company is recruited from the lion's share of the zek and replaces the second most popular army in the world, but

even piskov's son, according to his legend, decided to serve not in the ministry of defense, but in a private to the wagner military company. well, in fact, this topic needs a detailed analysis of the study. thank you, oleksandr, for helping us understand a little today , and with the image of the same war criminal yevgeny prigozhin, we will move on . we started with the topic of informational and psychological special operations, and i would like to talk about the fact that some authorities who may appear in the context of the war at first glance to be those who can be listened to and even from the ranks of the russians how do they say that there are people who fully condemn the war, who do not support putin's regime and say that they are absolutely friendly to ukraine and support the independence of our people . however, from time to time it is better not. outbursts

of nazism are taking place against all russians without exception , said the émigré publicist viktor shenderovych on the air of a project created by the former editors of the banned echo of moscow radio, russians fighting in ukraine are deceived happy and although they are sometimes murderers, it is still our country, he said, instead, the negative assessments of russia by the ukrainian side , shendrovych called bursts of nazism, he stated that the russian opposition is partners with ukraine only until the end of the war and beyond. in his opinion , the paths will diverge because ukrainians want russia not there was, and the russian opposition believes that russia should exist, oleksandr, that is a change in rhetoric, in particular, mr. shendorovych, who is often called a good russian , this is an image, he is probably the embodiment of this image for her one of the most striking of these is the vivid support of ukraine at the beginning of the invasion, and here we see already in the second year a full-scale repetition , it changes, it does not change

, in fact, there are several camps eh well, you say good russians can be called useful russians , let's call a more neutral opposition to putin, it is very different there is a position emigration in emigration. by the way, a very cool term for journalistic opposition, there is a journalistic opposition that speaks on the air and writes some articles, but there is an opposition on emigration. well for example, something like ponomariov, who works for more effective methods, efegin, who promises to hang everyone on poles. that is, it is very, very fragmented and has very different approaches , and shchedrovych very correctly said that ukraine cannot afford dreams. -e otrukhovskii about e and there, that is, shenderov’s about the beautiful russia of the future because we paid very dearly for it we passed through minsk , we passed through the good russia of the 90s, but all the same they degenerated into totalitarianism

that is why ukraine’s position is e-e she understood shendrovych’s position as well is and he very she said correctly, we are really not allies with them, fellow travelers, that is, if a sociologist, in your opinion, will the russian opposition in emigration be able to unite at least , even if not on the slogans of absolute support for ukraine, then at least on the slogans of opposition to putin , because this is exactly what this is calling for now the same fedorkovsky said that the problem of the russian position is the problem that putin is still in power, it is that those who oppose him cannot unite , the problem is that the opposition is not only the opposition of the liberal-democratic journalistic position or even small ones who advocate more effective is still the opposition conservative zed patriotic and so also we will not be a terrorist bitter and girkin whatever at first he said that we i am against any political projects there now they are already on all airwaves talking about social - a political movement that they call a club of diluted patriots, and i do not think that this is the last

project, so to speak, in russia. in fact, it is a political party because they cannot call themselves a political party, the first rule of political a party in russia cannot be called a political party, accordingly, all oppositions must be taken into account, and the publicist russian opposition. well, for now, it only dreams of a beautiful russia of the future, and it is still trying , don't forget, it is not focused on you and us. - in the majority, she focuses on that man, the majority of whom she wants to please, because there is a nuclear electorate and some kind of electorate hates and there is this silent cowardice and they try to influence it with these beautiful slogans without being attached to anything and what do you think from for the same, putin is now more at risk from this journalistic opposition and the opposition in emigration, or, for example, well, i don't know if it is possible that there is the same kadyrov who has under his wing under his wing

, well, these are the elites, the elites, the regional elites - this is the third big the topic is because it is the zet of the patriotic opposition, it says about the whole country , it’s just that, you know, the mexican duel, it’s the sectarian element that currently dominates in russia of the regional elite, who are now watching what is the end and for the patriotic position that does not want collapse which russia wants the victory of russia, but with the methods by which it uses itself more or less and very interesting conversations are bitter with the same representatives of the tatars who very cautiously say and so what to do in this beautiful russia of yours of the future zet of russia how to be a different people and he says yes, yes, i understand everything, but russian should be russian, culture should be primacy over all others, the russian language should be the only state language, and so on and so on. office management was ukrainian and so on. and so on, that is, this mexican

duel, and somewhere next to from around the corner, this journalistic, liberal, democratic russian position is looking at them . andrii, and we can also ask you as a psychologist, and this is how different russia’s perception of the future is from different russian e are the oppositionists or shall we call them emigration ? that's why it is so different. the fact is that some oppositionists, to put it mildly , assimilated abroad. others did not, but mr. shenderovych, russia expelled him and closed it to him. ether mouth and abroad, well, he didn’t accept it, nobody is interested in it abroad, and that’s why he continues to communicate with er russians, other oppositional media such as rain and jellyfish

, they are wonderful ace lovers well, i don’t know, they don’t often criticize ukraine although i didn’t want to i would like to idealize them a lot, but here they are the same people as shendrovych. at first they were nobodies, but they were very tough and he had such a confrontation. now he has nowhere to go. and he started his old fables about nazism again, remember the torch marches and all russians immediately faint, god, the happiness of the packages is, well, the same thing, because you are doing it. it didn’t happen here, well, dmitri. and what do you think, in what way should we distinguish it? well , in fact, there are some theses of the russian position, which well, we understand that in the future

in general, in the world that will be after putin, it is still in the western world , because it is not for nothing that they are invited there to international conferences of representatives of the liberal position of russian emigration, they are trying to build a dialogue with them. we understand that we will still have to deal with some part of these russians. conversation, and how to understand how to distinguish these theses that sound from representatives of putin’s opponents today, how to perceive them correctly in the context of propaganda, in the context of informational and psychological special operations, or simply in the context through the prism of the war that the russian federation is waging against us until first of all, here it is necessary to look at, well , you were building a relationship with the russians anyway, and what the first guy said about the outbreaks of nazism is an old thing that everyone

already understood a long time ago that there russian russian the intelligentsia ends the rune on the ukrainian issue and here it is important to understand in general how to build one's position in relation to the role of ukraine in russian history and, based on this, already build a-a our interest a-a and our communication with russian a-a representatives there is a description of opposition movements that there exist er in different currents in different ones because we are actually not fighting with putin, we are not fighting with putin’s regime we are fighting with the russians with those er who are leaving and who are leaving ukrainians er only

ukrainians the right to oh my country and here it is important that here the representatives of the intelligentsia, who do not accept putin there, but they perceive such a situation, yes, the controlled position of the ukrainians in front of moscow, we accept, we see the cerebral, we perceive the imperial ambitions of russia, that is, you can fight and listen to those who will first of all talk about the change or the destruction of russian imperialism and the consequences of those consequences of this imperial thinking that led to this conflict, that is, we are interested in

the opposition, those regional elites who will about the independence of national autonomies that exist in russia, who will ask questions about the creation of a-a of these national autonomies a-a individual states who will be the first to say that the right to self-determination of e-e russian a-a national autonomies is e-e basic and it can be implemented i think that the same chechnya if it gets its independence in this case we can talk about the appearance of some more or less good russian yes with whom

you can trust with which you can do something build everything else in the future, except for this position that we are fellow travelers there, yes, because you are with putin and we are fighting putin, this is not somehow acceptable for ukrainians, it is clear thank you, mr. dmytro dmytro gormakov, sociologist , expert in communication of the international center for countering russian aggression was with us on the medal, we continue to talk about how the world is trying to fight russian propaganda , but in france, the activity of the russian media arty was finally stopped, the decision to liquidate it when the court was silent in the countries the baltics, germany, britain, however, russia continues to mobilize tools for conducting disinformation companies, their goal is to systematically distort reality, the head of european diplomacy

, joseph borel, is convinced, mr. oleksandr , are they engaged or not? year of the war ani has passed , moreover, nine years of war have passed and france has been closed, in fact, you and i don't need to pass the next one, i repeat it, you know how to behave to the russian propaganda from the top, is there eh, look at their miscalculations, eh, what are they, really, they are, but, nevertheless, eh, they work in what, in what, and in this , they know how to build cars, or live in peace , my neighbors there some technology and some knowledge to give to the world is useful no, but propaganda, that's why it's only i would say even halfway, including uh, in europe, uh , even before there were a lot of investigations , how many uh, not only cultural broadcasters, not

broadcasters only cultural yes quasi cultural yes ah, well, schools, religious communities, some associations that work in the interests of russia , and this is only not even half of the way, maybe not even a third. therefore, there is still a lot of work . andrii, you know an interesting fact. one of the employees of the federal security service told putin directly how he fled abroad that at the same time we are watching, they say, for whom is this propaganda that is simply provided in lobo is not hybrid but simply well, that is exactly what we see on federal channels in the pro other time and sometimes yes, there is a question for whom it is. who among the unconscious people can watch it, and this employee of the federal security service said that putin demands, even during his business trips in russia and abroad, that he has a hotel room wherever he is, we don't know is it a bunker or a palace where he is being received that he must have had a few federal channels to choose from and he actually watches them but does not read information on the internet. if from the point of view of psychology what if you yourself pay money