[000:00:00;00] and run away, of course, once again i want to underline that, in general , the policy of turkey in relation to russia, the russian-ukrainian war, it is possible to say that it is the same, that is, no one can even say that in terms of an external political body, the question related to russia and ukraine is it is possible to say that even the only question in which even the opposition fully supports eldoganov and says that this is really a very good subcode of this question that we were not a rarity what do we recognize the territory of ukraine that was occupied by russia really occupied by er and i think that there will be no major changes. that is, if they look at it from the point of view of ukraine . i think that even for ukraine, for ukraine, it will be even better. and he has already, as you can tell, started to speak out against politics with russia, against such honest

relations, and there are even rumors that he can join all kinds of sanctions, embargoes, and so on . join the sanctions against russia if, in principle, he says that he wants to develop relations with russia of the same type as his understanding of ukraine, they have the same position, but precisely in terms of the fact that now russia and turkey are acting as a bass player. yes, if we are talking about the grain deal, that is, it is done , the grain deal will not be canceled so easily, because this deal was made under the auspices of the un and the deal was made not only for the benefit of certain specific countries. dvuh-tr it is good that you can say peace, that is, the deal he says is unworthy, but in the near future, it is expected that in relation to russia , he will not introduce such a shelf that is being floated by erdoğan, but in relation to ukraine

, the ukrainian question and so on, they have the same shelf, thank you, thank you, they heard you rasshit mustafa zade, a journalist, a public figure, was in direct contact with us , we discussed the elections in turkey, we are following their progress, yes, we also need them, perhaps, where we will definitely inform you about everything that will happen in turkey and for us let's get back on the air literally in a few minutes it is difficult to talk about what you feel when you have urinary incontinence an unpleasant situation can arise at any time even with a slight effort fortunately - this is behind me uro feminost helped me thanks to the natural components of uro feminost helps to restore control over urination in the melon at night now i feel confident femininity uro urination under control buy with

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and the possibility of personal communication with by the espresso team, click to sponsor and become a part of the community with a ukrainian point of view saves one life saves the whole world may 14 memorial day of ukrainians who saved jews during the second world war we continue the saturday political club program p anzhelika sezonka and vitaly portnikov so we will start our conversation with the visits of our president to italy , he already had time to hold talks with the president of the republic of italy directly, the prime minister of george and meluni

, and he even had an audience with the pope. franciskom, i would probably start my question with the last p. vitaly. unfortunately, there are no details yet on what exactly they talked about with pope franciskom. however, apparently he was discussed in ukraine. pope francis recently stated that the vatican is participating in a secret peacekeeping mission to try to end the war between russia and ukraine mr. vitaly, won't this mission look like the appeasement of russians and ukrainians that pope francis constantly tried to do? i generally believe that pope francis participates in secret peacekeeping, because i do not believe papa, a person who suddenly made something up and said it in public despite the fact that both moscow and kyiv said that they do not know anything about this place, i really think that they may not know anything about this place because he does not discuss it with them here is the visit of the advisor of the president of brazil to moscow and the fact that the president of brazil, lulu ignacio do silva, is discussing possible peace-making actions with the head

of the people's republic of china, this is pope francis, because we keep forgetting that he is not european, but he is not american the pontiff, the first latin american pontiff in the history of mankind, the former head of the catholic church of argentina with huge connections with the latin american political elites , he was looked at as such a grandfather who does not really understand where he is, but he perfectly understands where he is, he is very strong, motivated, with a lot of experience with a tragic life experience, uh, that's how to say it, a religious politician, a politician , a church politician, a political activist, because in argentina we will not be able to get control over the church without the ability to understand a complex political situation. moreover, he was a bishop during the dictatorship, when

tens of thousands of people went missing, including friends of francis. that is, we always underestimate the scale of the possibilities, so that in principle even the president himself would be interested in this situation because there could be contacts with the vatican. i think that this is not all that pope francis can do . there are different proposals, for example, let's give the territory and that's it, and the war will end, the global south and china are counting on an absolutely obvious version of the development of events, which the president of the odesa nation club spoke about, for ukraine, when i want to return my territories, she is right, the european union, the collective event when they help ukraine, they are right, and those countries that believe that no one can win the war, it must be ended, are also

right because they look at the situation realistically and they believe that the principle will come the day when it will become clear to both parties that they are not capable of advancing. when it will become clear that ukraine simply does not have, let's say, human and technical reserves, and it will become clear to russia that it cannot gain any more ukrainian territory, and mediators will appear here who will say that ukraine must clearly refuse from its territories , russia must clearly renounce the fact that it can take something else. and that's the end of the war. people will not die in your country, you have no one to die anyway. you have practically exhausted everything that you could, russians. there is also no money to continue fighting, they have exhausted everything they could, come to an agreement, this is what is called meeting in the middle of you what i was trying to talk about with andrii to be honest , such a moment may never come why do you think it will come, we are now discussing e- he situation from the point of view of the global level, i can explain to you why this moment will never come, you see , because i don’t want it. vladimir putin sincerely believes that if he

fights against it for 10 or 15 years, he will take all of ukraine well, absolutely no need for pieces of territory, they are interesting to him as a bridgehead, the fact that he cannot get this bridgehead is a problem, but also the fact that he does not need any there, just one or three areas, this is also a fact, the solution may not work on this, because he, you see, raises bets if the west would say every month for months no, you know, you can't advance now so we won't give you more shells or you can't advance any more why do you need these anti-aircraft batteries? the global south and china are close to success, when the west says we will now give long-range missiles, it means that a completely different tactic has been chosen. if putin does not understand

that it is necessary to end the war, we will raise the stakes, he raises the stake, we will see western politicians well, at least until the moment if in the chair the president of the united states will appear, donald trump can, from the point of view of public opinion, precisely public opinion, act according to only one scenario, say that they gave ukraine everything that they had, everything except nuclear weapons, and if ukraine will lose with all this, it's not theirs , it's not their responsibility, but when they say listen, you provided them with long-range missiles, we provided them, britain handed them over. well, that's how it was with every type of weapon. then it turns out that

they did not agree with her, but this is what it means: you did not give them airplanes, you did not give them air defense batteries. and if you also gave any opposition politician , i will speak in the elections, you see, ukraine has fallen and why and because you didn't give me you were scared of putin and now as a result we have this this this because the consequences are this this this is so that they will go to the end and russia will go to the end and ukraine is the arena of the excisional conflict well you won't do anything because the west itself is not going to fight, but is going to give everything it can, and russia is not going to end the war, but it can't continue it, so what are the chances of pope francis, president lullich , the head of the people's republic of china, all the zempinas, to end this war, because there is no way the only chance they had was a conditional truce. well, i don't see any political possibilities. i tell you all the time that i don't see any political possibilities regarding pope

francis. they somehow figured out that he might really have connections and all these things. our contacts with representatives of latin america are not just happening now, but with the president of italy and the prime minister of italy in general. and in your opinion, italy is doing everything in its power, or could they do more because the country itself is in crisis? - this is not much of a country to the european union well, not to the poor, as they say, without italy, the european union would not be the european union either, so in principle the rule of the predecessor of george melloni , mario draghi, stabilized the italian economy, in addition to italy or countries with a huge military industrial complex and in addition italy is a country with great authority in the european union and, in addition to vitalik, a country with its own interests in the european union, if it supports ukraine. for many, this still means that

it is not for nothing, more humanitarian, they help us well, it is rare that such heavy weapons are probably a fact of readiness to help in those conditions. how, for example, is mrs. melin in the coalition of silvia berlusconi's party, who almost kissed on the lips with volodymyr , maybe they didn't see what was happening between them with their lips. salvini, who almost took money out of his pockets , volodymyr put, maybe he took it again, not everything was seen , something always happens behind the scenes, this is already a huge political achievement if such a country like italy, let's say, took such a position how hungary is occupying, it would be a disaster, and it continues to occupy the completely opposite policy , what's more, when president zelensky met in paris with president macron, the federal cadre , scholz, prime minister meleni was incredibly unhappy that she was not invited to this meeting, do you remember and it also says a lot that she believed that she should be a part

of this quartet. and by the way, the predecessor of mario draga was also a participant in these efforts. it should also be remembered that when he was the prime minister , thanks to his great international he has always been a presence in the format of ukraine, france, germany, italy. so i think that this is an important visit. in any case , it is obvious that this visit is in italy. we don't know because you understand the interest in the war in europe is falling, the personal appearance of the president of ukraine somehow increases people's interest in the fact that she is helping us. by the way, the president of ukraine is going to germany, this is an important moment . germany gives us one of the biggest of aid packages of almost 3 billion euros, the former ambassador of ukraine to germany, andriy melnyk, somehow answered my question

in a mediocre way. doubled from such a peak, public support begins to decline, this is the important moment now we are recording a decline, but military support is good if there is no increase in public support, i assure you that i can decrease the military precisely because of this the president should have gone to germany, he will go these days literally after italy. that is why germany's support for ukraine has changed so seriously, thanks to a few. the first circumstance is that the germans were horrified to see the actions of the russian army in ukraine, the actions of the reich's army, that together they put the brakes on forever in their history it is not human , not even the army, it must be said that even the army of the reich did not behave like that, the ss behaved , all these punitive services behaved and in russia

, the army behaves like that, it is true. and this is a shock for the germans and this shock contributed to a change in public opinion, they saw pictures of the second world war on their screens from the air raid sirens, they saw women and children fleeing somewhere. and by the way, we must remember that germany also experienced this, or germans also lived under bombing, the same thing and the personal experience of the grandparents in the majority of the working population of germany. let germany be the aggressor, but there was the everyday experience of the tragedy of millions of people , this country was completely broken. and why, then , as you say, public opinion is changing and interest is falling due to a certain economic crisis and the question is whether there is an economic crisis, you know, in europe there is one, in germany it is felt much less than in other countries, i think that

is not because and because there are no massive bombings, in general, the psychology of beds is arranged when a person sees a massive bombing millions of refugees are crying children looking for their parents under the ruins when they hear this too. by the way, it was a huge mistake of volodymyr volodymyrovych from his gang that people live without light and heat . only a person can ask questions. i am not full of reason, i still do not understand this. that is, you will never be able to intimidate the population of this country, which you are depriving of heat and light, but on the other hand , you convince everyone else that you are just fighting a civilian population. and they saw it on all the screens of all european television broadcasters showed the dark streets of kyiv or lviv . you yourself remember these dark streets. we had

a light here. how many times were they turned off in the studio? it had an effect when i wrote a text for my colleagues from the russian service of radio svoboda, just about it's about one of those evenings, about a night under the starry sky when there was no light at all in the country, they called me back and asked me to read this text in a voice, because you didn't want me to give it, for them to put it on the air, and this is the reaction of people who live in europe because they are the headquarters of radio svoboda located in er in prague i understood their mood because it has a very strong emotional impact that i am sitting here i have heating i have light and there are literally six people there it is seven hours away from them and they live as in the middle ages and in winter in the winter. and this also greatly contributed to public opinion. and now, look what's happening, we survived the winter, no one freezes, the lights are on, our energy system

has worked, thank god, but they see people see ordinary streets on which people walk with their children, they don't see pictures the massive bombings of buchi and mariupol is a great happiness because we want it to happen, but we have to understand the consequences for european opinion, such interest is decreasing and here it appears, let's say to the news, you see art on tv. i read it. it seems to me that in the austrian one it was published that during this firefight between the sudanese military they were shooting something there, they bombed there, the founder of the student theater was killed, an actress. she was an elderly woman , she was there, well, she was under 80 years old, but she was such a star of sudan, they played in the theaters of egypt, they created a ball one by one stars of the sudanese

professional theater and you begin to reflect on how chi wrote such texts about, let's say , an elderly writer who lived through the war and died in mariupol in in the basement was well, under the cold from the cold, this was the soul of the greek community of mariupol, books were written about mariupol and this is the death of a person who gave all of his, all of his life force to his native city, and you , too, you see practically all their lives they created a theater for their native country, they just wanted the country to be better, and they take and kill some scoundrels who simply cannot share money and power among themselves. well, here we have a war. imagine that you are a german. and when you see this, you switch to a large account of another tragedy and such that is happening let's say this at the peak

now and which is also equivalent. i read that one of my colleagues also wrote on facebook that he was talking to a journalist in german and said to him , listen, why do you think that we should know ukrainian culture. we don't really know sudanese culture. well, he got very offended and started saying that we are european culture, sudan is far from sudan, but sudanese culture should be known in egypt, isn't that all, you can argue with all this, i won't now to believe that the journalist has the right in principle to be adequate because she could have prepared herself if she wants to talk to a ukrainian artist and a sudanese artist , but this but his reaction she did not take into account this reason and we are raining why did she say about sudan and the young girl she saw in the evening, not ukraine in the first on the first columns you leb- tvs or pike perch it was a pity it was the same yes it’s a pity women and children are absolutely

irrelevant they are in africa and this is what we can understand they are in africa in latin america or in europe when a person sees on on his screen a child who is looking for his parents who died under shelling, it does not matter what color he is, and we are now in a situation of stabilization in most of the country, thanks to our armed forces and thanks to the help of our allies, but this has its consequences for the public opinion of europe, that 's all i i want to tell you, and that is why i congratulate the president of ukraine on his visit to germany. and we still want to be closer to the germans than the sudanese, not because there is no tragedy there , because we are a european family. we strive to be yourself, that's why, probably with this image, it's a political category, i'm telling you about moral categories because europe is arranged in such a way that it is guided primarily by moral categories, it will be absolutely wrong angelika if you try to convince

europeans at the expense of political categories in order to convince europeans at the expense of political categories, there will always be someone else who will say, well, listen, if russian troops reach uzhhorod, where they were already before 1991, this is actually their problem there they are in this wild part of europe that we never knew and didn't want to know, it has an austrian who takes care of it, something between them is eternally confused why is this our problem. that is, this is the wrong approach, if we want to be part of the european family, then everything should be the same for us, it is a shame that people are they being killed in sudan or that rockets are flying at us , where are the tel-aviv companies, as well as the fact that rockets are flying from kherson to kyiv, this is the rule of conduct. we all are

we are living in a war and you have never had much empathy for us. so now in israel , 1,000,100 rockets have been fired , it is very serious . the middle east, by the way, is of even greater interest to us than africa, because it is a jewish state. there are many people from ukraine there, and we have more empathy than some countries far away from us, and we are surprised that israel does not have such empathy for us, although the majority of the population israel is not from here, and that is why there may not be such empathy, well, it is logical that everyone should be treated the same everywhere, people are everywhere, and that is why we have to talk about it. why am i coming back to this again? in such a situation, we need to work with public opinion. vladimir putin is counting on this, why does he need a long war? he understands that there will be new conflicts. and if there are not

, he will organize it himself, he knows how, we understand that sudan is also to a great extent. this is his handiwork , you are not kidding. if sudan was there before that lavrov, this general who started this coup, he was in moscow. imagine on february 23 or 24, 2022, he welcomed the recognition of the independence of the dpr of the lpr , what is it by chance, that is, russia has nothing to do with this at all ? then it will be possible to press another button, that is, to divert attention from the conflict in ukraine, as they call it, and we must be ready for this , this is a question of how we will give ourselves advice in

a situation when our compatriots will not be there kill every day because you understand other people's crimes. no matter how terrible it sounds, it's a very good helper to draw attention to you, but our task is that ukrainians do not kill , and from this it follows that the importance of war for our neighbors decreases. oh, and by the way , good. they were talking about germany a good example is poland for its decision to ban the export of the ukrainian agricultural sector, i am convinced that if the polish leadership would have done it , say, in april last year, or polish farmers would have demonstrated in april last year, polish public opinion was in a frenzy, everyone was told how can you, you see what is happening to people , their fields are burning, they are killing people, and you only think about money, and now the discussion is at a completely different level. well, of course, it is national interests. we want to help a lot ukraine

, but we cannot sacrifice the interests of polish agriculture. that's where the question is, how does public opinion change even in countries that are closer to this situation than germany and ten times more than us? they support even more, so we can't help but remember mr. vitaly, the victory special that took place in moscow on may 9 was canceled in more than 20 cities in russia this year . we did not see a large number of military personnel this year, for the first time since 2008, only 8,000 soldiers of the russian army marched in the parade of their promised super modern tanks and so on , nothing happened, and

only those who are part of the udkb came among the leaders of the states it seems that the president of uzbekistan represents a country that is not included in this usage, all the other cities are also located there, uzbekistan and turkmenistan are not included in the udkb, you understand what i am saying, that even those who go to the udkb did not come, but those who managed to be persuaded to pass, you understand which are more dependent came from russia and from putin, who are simply afraid that putin will cause some trouble. if we say clearly and they do not want to quarrel with him and they still perceive russia to some extent as a metropolis, this is also possible to say so clearly, but we understand what the problem is. i think we underestimate the level of cowardice of one person, vladimir putin. here

he is simply afraid of him, this fear is part of the personality. by the way, a beautiful illustration of this fear was this huge table at which he sat and talked there with those who passed 55 tests for everything possible before meeting here and all this quarantine about which we learned that all the people who serve him are in quarantine for months and everyone said you know and this is probably because he he is very afraid, he is in a very bad state of health, he is afraid of getting infected with the coronavirus and dying, and everything means that the ice will end immediately, so he has to be insured, and by the way, on may 9 , nothing got better, they said that there is no coronavirus, he is no longer worried. he is in i i don't know, of course i will not support this conspiracy because i think that doppelgängers do not work with the president of other countries , they may appear in mariupol on a conditional basis, but not if they exist at all. i think that it

is beneficial for putin himself to support this mythology about doppelgangers so that they think that it means eternal, you know, maybe this is something i already said to remember. i don't know if you have seen this series academy, er, empire, he had an idea from some place, not azika azimov, the creators of this series, we are from apple tv, what it's as if this galactic empire is ruled by a clone of the emperor, well, that is to say, what do we play? he died a long time ago, 900 years ago, 1,500 years ago. and they clone this emperor every time. well, it's the same person, and so it means he's already 345. what's more, they plan three times to grandfather was mature a man and a child passed the other on to experience so that the grandfather's wisdom balanced the energy of a mature person repeat thousands of years no nothing new