[000:00:00;00] more than four thousand hryvnias please continue to donate further and antin and i are saying goodbye and now we are switching to the serhiy rudenko format , serhiy rudenko will be working instead of vysochanskaya in the verdict program, so don't switch, we will watch together glory to ukraine, this is the verdict program, my name is serhiy rudenko good day and good health to all. today , may 16, is the 447th day of heroic resistance of the ukrainian people to the russian invaders . on the night of may 16, the russian invaders attacked ukraine with missiles of various types and all 18 enemy missile targets were shot down by a series of shahed drones. the night attack on ukraine , according to ukrainian experts, cost the russian federation at least 120 million dollars. the drone attacked

the fsb headquarters in the kursk region of the russian federation this morning. five wounded. kyiv wants to receive 40-50 f16 fighter jets from the allies. this was stated by the adviser to the minister of defense yuriy sak, meanwhile, the russian occupiers continue to lose manpower and equipment in ukraine as of the morning of may 16, the russian the occupiers have already lost 1,999,980 people in just the last day , the armed forces of ukraine have destroyed 520 orks since the beginning of the great war, the russians have already lost 3,700 62 tanks, 7,348 armored fighting vehicles, 3,150 artillery systems, 567 e-e salvo systems, 316 air defense systems, 38 aircraft 294 helicopters 6.48 units of automotive

equipment 18 ships boats 973 cruise missiles 2732 drones 410 units of equipment so daggers against kyiv, an iron dome for ukraine and princess putin we will talk about the events of this week and the last few days and especially the last night during the next hour i want to introduce today's guest - a diplomat and politician minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019 pavlo klimkin mr. pavla good day good health to you and thank you for joining to our broadcast, congratulations, congratulations, sergey, i am glad to be with you and your viewers, mr. pavla , let's start today's shelling of the capital

, because it was a rather difficult night in kyiv. our er partners, including the american ones, were saved from destruction by kyiv because er 16 missiles, 6 of which were daggers , which are aeroballistic missiles that are very difficult to shoot down, what in your opinion prompted putin to launch such a massive strike on the ukrainian capital, knowing in advance what if these rockets will hit kyiv, then some part of the city will simply not exist, it will simply cease to exist, i don't think that the country is governed exactly like you and i, it smells like this and i don't think anyone will communicate if they see the destruction , if they see the suffering there, it's mental

completely different. i think that these models will continue. i would certainly like to say that this was the biggest strike and there are fewer chances for such strikes. but nevertheless, putin will continue. it is absolutely clear that the russians will look for a possible weakness in our air defense system. try to hit the western air defense systems, they will try to weaken them, and understanding that this is our fundamental defense, this is our fundamental defense against their aviation , so far, air defense is the main component, since the negotiations about aircraft are still ongoing positive progress, as we understand it, but before the final decision and the fact that the planes will be here in ukraine, it will take some time to hit

our air defense systems, but also to intimidate is one of the main strategies of the kremlin and it will continue because vladimir putin reacts quite sharply to attacks in during the visit of volodymyr zelenskyi's european tour to europe, italy, the vatican , france, germany, and great britain . zelenskyi spoke a lot about putin when , of course, he was asked about the negotiations that he should or could have held with the leader of modern russia during a conversation with journalists in rome, the president of ukraine also mentioned how back in the 19th year he tried to hold negotiations with the russian dictator and we will hear and

see what actually came out of this what did the president of ukraine say to talk to putin, there is nothing to talk about with him, look at her, i want to give you an example from my life in the 19th year, i became the president, there were many different criticisms , people did not want to talk to putin and i said i will now i i will try dialogue, this is not politics or it didn't give me any advantages, i really wanted to end the war, i wanted to find an agreement, we decided for a long time, because he was like , i'm sorry, princess, he couldn't find a format in which to meet, we did everything, we did everything , i did everything to have a conversation, we had a dialogue on the phone

we had a meeting in a normal format, we exchanged people, the first 110 people , i was very happy, we agreed not to shoot and let's do it, there will be a sysfalt for a while , and after that we move on , mr. pavel's daily provocations, what could have been said zelenskyi was the last stone that prompted putin to be more aggressive towards ukraine , well, that means including the shelling of kyiv, you were in the negotiation process with the russian federation, how does putin react when they are trying to provoke him in some way, or say well, in this case, zelenskyi said that he is a princess . i think that this definitely did not pass by putin’s ears or by putin’s deciphering

. i think that putin is closely following what they say about him. he is personally sensitive to that, but the president of ukraine says what he really can. and every ukrainian wants to say that he, in this sense, broadcasts the emotion of the ukrainian nation, and i understand very well that out of all the emotional moments that arise from that, this is a very real emotion, our common emotion, and i believe that the time when we think and look what and how to say it is over i think that we should speak from the heart speak from our mind we should speak what we think actually in this is our truth and our mission and

even when the west tries to say something in a political sense and in relation to putin we still have to speak the way we understand it, the way we feel, and i think that putin has already finally understood how the ukrainians treat him, maybe he had some illusions, who called illusions or his special services, or maybe someone here in ukraine , medvedchuk, i am not i know but nevertheless, there is no sympathy of ukrainians for putin and not for putin's russia or something russian , these are not real emotions today and we have this emotion and we deserve

to be able to speak the truth and that that we we feel like this again. i believe that the main reason for these strikes is an attempt to intimidate the ukrainians. the main reason is an attempt to hit our prokurovo, because it defends ukraine and does not allow the russians to use massive russian aircraft. strengthening our air defense is one of the key tasks today and in the future. and for the future after the war, since either putin's regime or some russian regime will not disappear there and we will need to restrain it, and restrain it so that we feel safe, and i believe that this it is also very important for the west to understand how not to simply restrain russia but to proactively respond to all these russian attacks, therefore i absolutely support the president of ukraine in

that he says about his emotion and the emotion of ukrainians that he directly agrees with the project of closing the sky over ukraine should become this project is one of the main ones, and maybe it should be called the big sky, or at least by analogy, big construction and in this way to protect ukrainians from the missiles of daggers and shaheds of the russian federation at the same time let's let's go back to zelenskyi's visit to european capitals , and it seems to me that it was the first time at the beginning of the great war. zelenskyi met the pope because he had met with other leaders of european countries before, but he met pope francis for the first time, and we know that before that

the pope spoke about the fact that he is making a lot of efforts to ensure that there is peace in ukraine, although publicly we have seen the statements of the pope of rome about the fact that he tried to compare ukraine and russia and that both sides should stop according to your zelenskyi's talks with the pope were successful this time, because judging by what zelenskyi said, there is nothing to negotiate with putin, and pope francis seems determined to push zelensky to negotiations with putin. pope francis he proceeds from the fact that some human relations, as he understands them on the basis of world writing, should be the basis for all negotiations. of course, we are not against it, but

putin is a completely different reality and putin's russia - this is a completely different reality, they don't want to talk about it not with us the fact that they are on equal footing, but they don’t want to talk about it, they want to destroy ukraine as such and putin and everyone is surrounded by putin and the entire russian elite and agree. and the absolutely dominant majority of russians they do not see us as ukraine and they do not see us as ukrainians they see us or as russia, but there is such a sick russia that it is wrong to manipulate the west. well , they invent anything or see as anti-russia what putin wrote in his famous article about ukraine. and this is part of the russian

ideology of the so-called russian scrubs. maybe one day it will change in a generation, but it will not change . neither tomorrow, nor the day after tomorrow, but not massage prospects, therefore, agree with putin about what, about some humanitarian aspects . yes, of course, it is important. things, and i think that if pope francis wants to join in , he should talk about how he can and wants to help the humanitarian sphere, as it relates to the sphere of politics, or better to say geopolitics , i certainly see a role for the world throne in some possibilities to talk, uh, to probe, but today i don't see the vatican as some

uh, uh, effective and specific mediator, and this is due to the fact that there are leaks and this is a personal position. as far as i understand pope francis , let's act like some soviet cartoon let's live in harmony in this way, we will live with putin's regime, but the fact that volodymyr zelenskyi could personally communicate and convey this emotion to pope francis, i think it is very positive, now the people who come out understand our, our plans, our ambitions, but they also understand that we are not ready to make concessions, of course, any er process er conversations, consultations in the future if it ever arises. and now i

don’t see any conditions or prerequisites for him, of course he will also demand er that we communicate with all parties of the catholic church it is definitely important here, but again, let's start with today. i see the role of the vatican. perhaps in humanitarian issues, but i am very skeptical of the vatican in political issues. today, mr. pavlo is to arrive in kyiv for the first time since the beginning of the great war in russia against ukraine, the special representative of china, in general, would be a high-ranking official of china, but he should talk about peace, about the peace plan that he offers or the peaceful vision. i don’t know how to call it correctly, because on february 24, 2013 , i made public my vision of what

is happening in ukraine, this is not peace. he was coming, and this visit will be part of a tour, as they announce, to promote peace negotiations, and then he will go to the russian federation and the eu. can we perceive what happened last night in kyiv as preparation, art preparation by moscow for inclination zelenskyi is the chinese representative for some variant of the peace plan, because moscow usually does this, it first fires at the ukrainians and then says well, in principle, we are ready for some kind of negotiations , of course, i think that if it is followed, it is possible to be caught in this way in the kremlin, they understand very well that the chinese representative will be in kyiv today. and in general, their tactic is to first raise the stakes and threaten, and then when they

receive the change, start talking somehow , but in this case it is not about what someone starts talking to them. i think that they really spoiled the chinese representative to a large extent, and his conversation is certainly not the essence and the point. there will be no problems , but the atmosphere was spoiled anyway. i also think that these first conversations will be overwhelming for the chinese, they understand very well that today as i already said , there are really no prerequisites for any kind of conversation. the chinese also understand that we are preparing for military operations . yes, a counteroffensive and many other things. the chinese

also understand the military situation and they allow if at some point the military situation creates at least minimal prerequisites for negotiations, then they will be ready, then they will build the necessary personal relations, then they will explain the logic of their actions, and you are absolutely right, mr. sergey, that today there is no chinese peace plan, there is a certain vision of the principles as they say that settlement is general principles, they can be interpreted broadly enough, but a plan is something that involves a sequence of actions and an obligation to perform them, as well as guarantees in its implementation is not even remotely close to china so far, and i think that the chinese do not want to put it forward. perhaps they are ready to talk about certain positions of their vision

. it is not public, but why is it public ? russia without china's economic support in today's reality , i will not say that russia will collapse immediately, but it will be extremely difficult, this will fundamentally change the economic conditions for russia, china does not need the collapse of russia today, but the victory of russia is by no means necessary to china, a weakened russia is profitable and is entering into talks with china from the position of a junior partner . a couple of days ago, the french president macron already said that russia has suffered a geopolitical defeat and is now a vassal of china. i do not think that now we are talking about full

fun, but the kremlin is definitely a junior partner, and i see signs of dependence on china, which will lead to the status of a vassal. well, look at what is happening today in russia. go to the bank , deposit in yuan, go to the store, everything chinese, you go there to buy a car, everything is also chinese. if it is not contraband, and in the end the question arises and in five years, what in principle will not be chinese in russia , especially since now they are trying to focus on the vpc on all other things, but then the question arises that they are fundamentally dependent on china, on chinese technologies and on the money they receive for resources exported to china, and by the way, this is a very difficult situation for us if someone in the west, like macron , thinks that they have already won a global

geopolitical victory and russia can be to press for quite a long period, so to speak, evolutionarily, not exactly as they pressed the soviet union , but something like that for us, this is a fundamental problem. will bring us real positive steps and progress that the european union southern raising rates so far i see a very cautious attitude towards this and above all japan will go to raising rates because we need of course, the victory is not only a military one, we need a global victory over russia, only the military component, only the military

dimension, despite all its importance, will not give us the possible , will not give us a chance to comprehensively defeat russia, it must be economic isolation, it must be sanctions, it must be restrictions on technologies it must be psychological pressure and an agreement to arrest putin by the international criminal court, and this story is actually very, very important for us, and the context with the chinese, understanding their position, understanding them our position and that it was not simply based on official declarations of some kind. this is an important story and that is why today's visit by the chinese special representative, a person who knows russia very well, he was ambassador there for 10 years , knows both the weaknesses and strengths of today's russian regime. and i believe that this visit is actually

it is very important for us that he be a sounding board for today and the chinese also does not just come a couple of days before the meeting. what is important, so to speak, to drive the nails, regarding which it is, of course, military aid and financial aid, well, well understood, but also the future model of security for ukraine. i consider it one of the most critical issues, because if we do not feel safe, we will not be able to develop, we will not be able to ensure internal investments external, we will be forced to keep very large armed forces and the security sector, uh, there are different estimates

. depending on how you look at our ue what we should spend during the war on security and defense and this is absolutely correct history but after the war we need to develop as a country as a nation and we cannot conventionally spend half as much in nato countries there is a discussion there about two percent, and if we spend about 15 there, imagine how it affects the entire life of the country, so this security model will of course be discussed during the summit, but it is important for us that china perceives the future security model for europe, this is also very, very an important story, that's why i'm repeating this visit again. although probing, but nevertheless important , but mr. pavla, can you explain why

the actual liiguey will visit ukraine, russia , france, germany, and poland, and not go to great britain? well, to the united states of america, because uh the united states of america and great britain play a decisive role in the current situation and in supporting their support for ukraine. that is, they are decisive countries , but the chinese simply push aside their spheres of influence and try to demonstrate to demonstrate diplomatically that well, the anglo-saxons are one thing, and germany and france are completely

different . a few days ago, he spoke for two days while meeting in vienna with biden's security adviser jake sullivan, so the chinese simply speak on a different level with the americans. well, of course, you could go it's already in london. let the chinese themselves decide the chinese mentality. that's why it's very common to understand. but not all the nuances. i think that the chinese actually understand that the united states is the main thing in this american- british tandem. and that with the americans, they are already detailed and exclusive and the negotiations conducted and now the special agent is going to us

, he is going to europe, and you see , he is going to the key countries. to old acquaintances well, i hope with impressions with new emotions and with new experience , here i will put three dots on the background of the fact that he will be treated today in kyiv and tomorrow, obviously, 16-17 announced, then he will go to moscow, obviously he saw the eyes not only of vladimir and putin, but also of dmitry medvedev who was once the president of the russian federation, open your eyes - obviously, you know him well , considering that he was the ambassador of china to the russian federation, so medvedev is again threatening the world with barrel and jet

artillery and hypersonic missiles with those with which they bombarded us today, they say that patience breaks down due to the fact that international institutions do not take into account the will of a specific state, well, they mean the russian federation. the will of a specific state and not the will of a number of countries . there is no reason to submit to the decision of legal structures that have outlived themselves or will end up discredited. and if international conventions are not applied, and court decisions recognized by countries are not implemented, then barrel

and jet artillery work and hypersonic missiles even fly, that is, mr. pavla, i understand that medvedev proposes to resolve all conflicts that arise in the world, and russia is a country that does not produce, well, the main its products are weapons, fear and death , what the russian federation can produce is nothing more than when the whole world is moving forward and thinking about how to improve people's lives, the russian federation is thinking about how to kill these people and make them how does he say domination there, or does he say that everyone reckoned with the will of a specific state, how can one characterize this ideology that they constantly reproduce and it is clear that we call it racism, but in general, how to decipher all of this, what does he say to that well, he doesn't just speak , he articulates those thoughts and that position