[000:00:00;00] understanding even specifically not what is there subconsciously that we propose to replace it we say people you need very, very hard education ot take a poppy it will be much cooler and this means that we still this is a reactive reactive way in principle to overcome the soviet some kind of relapses can be taken from here these are all the signs of the trident that the creative, er, ministers come up with, who was already a syringe, a creative person, he headed the creative television channel for so many years and so on, maybe this is where all the bach of strength comes from and so on people have silver myths and rituals and symbols in that we need them, there is nothing wrong with the poppy, by the way, it is not a specific ukrainian, it is a european symbol, er, well, it is connected with the fact that it dates back to the first world war, in fact,

there are poppies blooming in the fields and they use it as a symbol of actual mourning and memory , it's not about victory, the actual difference between the soviet symbols around the second patriotic war, according to our once second world customs, friends of the world war or our great patriotic war, not our soviet one. i'm sorry, i'm a product soviet the russian system is breaking through, but you actually see how independent ukraine has been for 30 years, but it is still breaking through, we need these symbols, and here is the soviet brand of war, it was about victory, er, about triumph, and the european symbol of war is about memory and about immortality, and in the united states in the united states and in europe, they don't have victory day, they have a memorial, where is the day of remembrance, yes, it is a symbol

that expresses how the culture looks at the war , when the russians said we can repeat it, the europeans said never again, that's why there is no need for important symbols long to explain we we hear this phrase and we understand what it means. we look at the image at the logo at the symbol in essence the logo is a symbol and i am not saying that the bakhmut fortress is a bad symbol it is just premature it is not over yet not yet ready this product is for historical memory we still don't know what it will be about. this story will be about victory , or it will be about losses, or it will be about defeat, about retreat, we don't know and brand what we still don't know, well, at least it's premature, ms.

yaryna. thought in general communication of the country during this difficult uh year has already gone like this for the second year. well, sometimes you try to talk to people who , for example, do not work in the news, but can watch them and not only the espresso tv channel, that is, if they watched the espresso tv channels, it would be kind of balanced the position to watch, for example, the marathon, the only news where there is all the time there we believe in the armed forces , we are winning, well done, and even the military themselves say, well, the impression is that we have already recaptured that bakhmut and driven the enemy far away, he was already nipping at his heels for the ukrainian border and i this is how these people lose all their strength, and so on. it seems to us that there is already a cognitive gap with the only marathon one news, it is constantly increasing, and to be honest, you will now say and i don't know what is going on in the liquid marathons for the first time until the end, so his no one will watch, not even the editors who release it, and in fact, there may be that moment, very correct and good things happen when sometimes you see, read the news, know them

, follow them, and not just watch the only source of information, you come across people who are the recipients of this single source of information, the marathon and the news data, the impression is that there are two bubbles, well, not even bubbles, because reality collides with this, hooray, we are winning, and to me it actually just reminds me a little of such soviet rhetoric they say well, there was such a cheer for the victory, what we call the russians now the victory, but it is sometimes read in our people, who are constantly repeated there victory victory we will be victorious and so on and so on so that to answer your question, i will divide it into several pieces if they are against ukraine's communication with the world, explain what is happening to a large extent, the success story, we have lost what is called the global

south, we are not very good at it, we are working with africa, with south america, with southeast asia, with that for example , we can see this now in the behavior of pope francis, who, although he lives in the vatican, but comes from latin america. communicated very well and won a great victory and the fact that at first we were happy for javelins and now we are expecting fighter jets this is just one example of how well this communication took place now as far as this is concerned this is a classic example for some reason the majority of the previous authorities also stepped on the same rake communication to the outside in we are doing better than anyone else, and the national marathon is the only news. it was a very good response to the first challenges of the war. i believe that it has outlived its usefulness. well, somewhere soon

it will be a year as i believe that the moment when it was a waste to take such a big eraser and use it to erase the boundary between news and propaganda. i think that this time has passed a long time ago, and here we need to return to basic psychology . there is such a concept of psychology, five stages of acceptance of death . experiments only in the 60s. studying people who were informed of a lethal diagnosis so that they would die of the disease and people go through these five stages that everyone knows. this is already part of such pop psychology and communication with people at a time when they are going through such things it's like a war somewhere should orientate a little on these five stages at the first stage of denial we will not have this stage of sentences and war but nothing will happen and there will be barbecues on may 1 yes, we all remember it well russia was gathering forces on the border we passed denial

then when it became clear that it was inevitable and we had aggression and we wanted to fight, people went and stood in line at the military commissariats, we all donated massively , volunteers mobilized and so on. after that, trade began and it was about negotiations and it was about that what is possible for us it is still possible to find some way to come to an agreement. this is the stage . we lost very quickly, and then comes the stage of depression. so far, absolutely nothing is clear. this is what the marathon is doing now . it is for people who seem to be stuck in the stage of depression when it is necessary. when they need to be shown that everything can be done, so that everything is not as bad as it seems. here are the steps you can take. here are some good ones for you.

news, but we passed this article a long time ago. we have long been at the stage of acceptance. acceptance is when you already live in a new reality. do you understand that there the hryvnia is holding on to snot and that's the economy in general. it doesn't feel good, so we might as well make mindless losses. we've been in this mode of acceptance for a long time. and he still communicates with us as if we're still in the stage of depression and so on there is a big dissonance, it can be seen in the ratings, the last thing i saw about the ratings of the national marathon is from 12 to 15%, and at first it was 80%. that is, we are talking about the fact that people no longer see the benefit, uh, many people no longer see the benefit in this product and usually look for alternative sources of information communication and thus very quickly become easy victims for various information operations for disinformation for fakes and so

on because they are looking for an alternative and when you cannot evaluate the quality of the alternative russian commentary shvets tells what is there? it is actually the leadership of the country . i understand that even before the stage of acceptance, people no longer accept what they are told from the only news. tasks, and the marathon definitely fulfills political tasks, it is useless to argue with this, because these characters and ideas often appear in the information space, and even if a person does not watch the marathon, those things still reach her because they are later quoted media and so on, that is, this bubble actually spreads , uh, we broadcast recognition and it turns into trust , and what i have seen many times, it becomes

part of reality, my brain is so inclined to accept what it often comes in contact with as part of reality, uh this is also subconsciously done with critical thinking. we all have problems for a long time, and also in a stressful state in which we live, in principle, we are unable to think critically, that's why we all become such easy victims of propaganda and that's why the best thing that the government can do is to transform this marathon, to bring back the pluralism of opinions that was on the air, at least to some extent, so that after all the information, when people choose and they will choose what they like, what causes emotions, so that those emotions are still evoked on on the basis of some realistic information, thank you ms. iryna klychkovska, communications consultant , co-founder of the ukrainian crisis media center, was with us, and now with us are the people's elected officials of ukraine, oksana savchuk and oleg hunda

, we are adding them to our list, gentlemen we are glad to see you, we already see you, congratulations, glory to ukraine, regarding this topic, watch the telethon in general, uh, how is this situation, i agree at the first stage. it was very useful, but the fact that it exists now is not a question of the authorities at all. or here are those who are metamorphons, get out of it and work directly with your audience outside of this smartphone. nothing prevents you. no one forces you . remara if i'm not mistaken and i'm most likely not mistaken, then 1+1 uh-uh now has such a version

1+1 ukraine somehow yes and ictv somehow there ictv something there two doesn't matter what it 's called there, that is, they broadcast all other products there in addition to information, that is, there are no problems, but they cannot, but cannot include information products there, because otherwise then the question arises why , for example, espresso is not included in the single , single news, you are absolutely correct in saying this question to the owners, that is, if they wanted to be separately for within the limits of this marathon they he left it, they handed over informational programs to conditional 1+1 two or even left the marathon and the oaks are not present there , this question is not so much about the state, it is a question so much about how the last 15 years were formed , in general, our informational cross-section, which depended for the most part on the oligarchs

from rich ukrainians who financed it out of their own pockets, it was unprofitable, and therefore at the moment when the economy during the war, of course , collapsed and they did not have enough money for this , accordingly, they decided to use the state budget and all those who go to phone, they are not so much about those present in it as to receive compensation, partly money for the broadcasting of this marathon. for those tv channels that want to promote themselves outside the borders and have priority, but unfortunately, for some reason , few of the tv channels, except for espresso and maybe maybe, are still trying to promote themselves outside the marathon and have such and such a big boost is a big opportunity for growth, unlike those of your marathon, this is not a question for the state, this is a question for the owners of the oligarchic system that was

created over the last 30 years, including the media, well, i don't know here, if you want to say something to say about this if we have already closed this topic, well, look, i first of all want to say that these are the funds of tax payers, when we say that something was tolerable before the war, now it is unacceptable during the war and after the principles have changed and the price e for which we today we live it in every life of ours has become much higher, god has a lot on the front and the standards that are possible for ukraine were acceptable and we treated them more easily , such as well, if you don't like it, we don't look at the rational use of funds, corruption well , now i think that these must be things that

for us did not miss the information space . is this a weapon? is it used effectively? well, i am convinced that it is not to the end and that is not how it is used today at the only marathon, because i really want to to the leadership and the state of such a single marathon to hear what is actually good , or even if something is not good, then it should be presented exclusively in the light that, uh, no , it will greatly highlight some of our gaps , but the world is so strong that a person with information can get information from various sources that people really do not trust, no, if people do not trust, it means that they will not be as mobilized as is needed for our country today. therefore, this is the first certain threat, and i cannot say that it is

simply the whims of the authorities for our you money, but this is a certain threat because we are becoming less mobile, uh, those who watch this marathon because, despite this, a large number of people watch it because they have nothing else to watch, and what they have available is what they watch, that's why i'm convinced that if we talk about it, unite around a quality information policy, uh, in ukraine , we still want alternative sources of information so that people have the opportunity to compare, this is the democracy and freedom for which we are fighting today, that's why there is no other way than truthfulness. we don't have any gentlemen. i want to say that tomorrow seems to be the anniversary of the inauguration of the president. if i 'm not mistaken, tell me not to follow it less, but i wanted to

check it before that. i understand. well, i wanted to say what do you know? a couple of days ago , the president, another president of the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe, your colleague, the deputy , said that ukraine will still have to think about the upcoming elections, and of course they answered him right away that we have martial law with the constitution of the legislation. we have no right to do this. and so on , i will not say everything like that , okay. things that are fair, but think about the real perspective, what is shadow coke really talking about if they all say that the war will end when we ah deo buy crimea and when russia actually admits its military defeat and ukraine receives iron

and concrete security guarantees to be spelled out in ten points and which, by the way, the european union supported today in many ways. does this not mean that this war can last, for example , two, three, five, ten years, in this sense we will not have a peace agreement, this means that we will have, for example, 10 years martial law does this mean that we will live with this president and this parliament and this government for the next 10 years? for example , it is possible. i have a question for you , deputies. how do you see it? come on, ms. oksana, then i will be ms. oksana. well, what? concerns elections, i am convinced that they should take place after the end of martial law, but there is an issue that needs to be resolved now, this is the issue of collaborators who still have our deputy badges and this

issue of the elected officials who are elected by their pro-russian parties and they are still local deputies regional pjsc city mayors who are elected by the party and who are banned today , that is , the period of the question, they are actually very important. theoretically, the election process is taking place, our polling stations abroad are absolutely not adapted for such a large number of ukrainians to vote , that is, it is unrealistic if they want to start voting through the act of pro, it cannot be allowed in any way , but we must unite because this is not democracy, we are not ready today er , there is no need to do this at all today, i don’t believe that electronic elections are needed in ukraine

at the moment, because it is very important that they be er, so that a person can personally vote in bulletin well and thirdly - this is the issue of the occupied territories, uh, what are some of the color people saying somewhere, that is, if they are saying on the sidelines that the options for holding the so-called by-elections, which are possible in the spring and in these by-elections, are being considered purely theoretically , let's elect temporary deputies of the temporary president temporary mayors and when the martial law ends, then we will hold other elections that will be stable there, and we are taking these temporarily because some of them, as they say, have already found their way their mandate and they must be sent away no matter how it will actually be, well, i am a supporter of the fact that if you do not know how to do it, then do it according to the law, it is best

to do it according to the law, because after martial law , well, look, i would like it to be held every day in some countries, for example, the united states in general, the united states seems to be elected to the congress every 2 years, not four, not five, but you have to remind mr. shadow of coke that, by the way , i will remind our viewers that he was there before february 24, when he was elected. before that, he was suspicion about pro-russian sentiments and relations with moscow, and in this case it is working out sufficiently pro-russian technology, that is, he cannot say that let's remeasure, because it is clear that no one will accept this and no one will. after all, he began to work out a more intellectual, more intelligent position regarding the fact that let's hold elections, let ukraine do as it wants

and do as it wants, they understand that any elections are possible only during the truce and oksana a has already reminded many factors that it is technically very difficult to hold such an election, if at all. perhaps, but there is one fact that when the elections begin, it is a political struggle. we are not in an ideal world . to bring ukrainians will work the so-called minus, try to humiliate the opponents to one, accuse everyone of sins, accordingly, it will be scattered it information space and political space and state management, which will be beneficial who, of course, is the aggressor, that's why they work on it, and in this case, i still began to work on panakok's inner circle for the benefit of why and for the benefit of whom did he start to throw such theses, and the elections in the near future are actually impossible, we need how

about the comments and it is already underway working groups both on the basis of the committee and on the basis of the cec how will we conduct the work how will we conduct elections after martial law and here by the way, a very big question and what will we do with the elections on de-occupied territories, not the same territories as zaporozhye and kherson, which were under occupation for up to a year, and for example crimea and donbas , where people have been under propaganda and influence for more than 9 years, what are we going to do with the electoral rights of these people, because we understand how it affects them will influence how through them they will try to bring back the world hall and boyko and shufrych and many and many other workers of pro-russian groups and these questions need to be answered by this parliament and not to blame some

transitive intransitives, it is not clear where the deputy came from. we must answer for this and be responsible for the decisions we will make. well, i think there is still some time. to the hands of the cec, and by the way, oksana, i don't know if she is in the working group , i ask you to join it as a proletarian and the opportunity , gentlemen. thank you very much for the conversation, uh, the people 's deputies were. our guests today are oleg dunda and oksana savchuk. thank you very much. well, we already have nearing the end, in fact, ours is also today's morning, which is no longer morning, it's almost as if by lunchtime we have reached the lunch break , please, dear ones. thank you all for being with us. we will be back tomorrow. vitr with andrii zeichuk at 7:10 will work tomorrow in two sessions. but in you we urge you to stay behind the express further on the air espresso there is still a lot of interesting things to stand up and climb the stairs

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move easily for only 199 uah call join the community with a ukrainian view of the world become a sponsor of the youtube channel espresso and this is access to exclusive content , personal thanks, pinned comments , special icons and the possibility of personal communication with the espresso team, click sponsor and become part of the community with from a ukrainian point of view, it is twelve o'clock in ukraine and for your attention a news release on the espresso tv channel in the studio of iryna koval. i greet all viewers and let's start with the situation in different regions of our country