[000:00:00;00] i think that with the help of our british partners, who have always played such a role, a catalyst who always gave ukraine something first that others did not give, i want to remind you that the british gave us the first three helicopters, that is, western-type helicopters, so far we have other aircraft no, but it was already a precedent, they were the first to give us the same challenges to push the germans, i think that they will push those who have these e-e planes and those who can transfer them to ukraine with their funds, therefore, all imaginations should be focused on britain on their rhetoric based on their actions, it seems to me that this is the country that will break or break it up. the elite will start this process. god bless you. brexit is all that needs to be said, because if it were not a lie , it is not known that it would be there. okay, let's finish if we thank

alexander. foreign security policy of the center of defense strategies was with us now we have new guests vitaliy kulyk director of the center for research on civil society problems and ivan klympush-tens for the people's deputy of ukraine head of the committee on integration of ukraine to the european union, congratulations, mr. vitaly , congratulations , ms. ivanna, let's not start our conversation like that. we see a shift in precisely the topic that you talked about with mr. oleksandr, because that is where the information about the readiness of the united states to train our pilots and directly discuss in detail who and when will be able to provide

ukraine's fifth-generation fighter jets, i am convinced that the ice has finally broken and all these efforts that have been made for many , many, many months are finally yielding results . i am very sorry that it always takes a long time and costs us an insane number of our victims. it also seems important to me. the fact that we are talking about additional sanctions packages that will apply to uh well, you are already diamonds and here again, you just talked about the leadership of great britain ah, it seems to me that the leadership and position of great britain adopted and for itself restrictive additional measures against the russian federation before the meeting of the group of seven, it also affects what additional decisions will now be uh . i hope they will be finally approved at the level of uh. at the level of a larger number of countries and then

thinks that they will also move to e.e. members of the european union and will be reflected at the level of the european union , which means it will attract a larger number of countries, so for us we can talk about positive additional results of this meeting, but i think that this is not all that we have heard and i hope for additional news and p vitaliy, look, i would like to ask you, but this meeting in the people's republic of china of the leaders of central asia and at the same time a meeting in japan of the leaders of the democratic world is that the crystallization of blocs of blocness, that is, china around china will be such authoritarian-totalitarian eritreas will join maybe more or less democratic brazil can be there, the republic of south africa and

so on. and on the other side of the pole there will be uh democratic countries well, to which i hope sooner or later ukraine will join not only in fact, but also formally, what do you say? well, i am far from considering that there are any more two-poles, these are being formed, so china would prefer that it is such a world, there are two poles so that in the sphere of their interests, here i am a protective world, there is everything else, the so-called third, second, and this is the food of china and there are some boundaries separating these two worlds, in fact, this will not be able to understand in china exactly what we are talking about central asia and the chinese themselves these are connected primarily with the fact that weak russia and china occupy that vacuum of security and of economic proposals that used to be monopolized by the russian federation, now from the old asia all gradually and where its influence on the process taking place there is gradually weaker, china is occupying niche after niche

so far this is not a sign of some exaggerated competition between russia and russia and china, but on the contrary it is just china occupies empty niches and enters there er and increasingly attracts central asian countries to itself with such tying straps, this is visible in the trade balance of these countries. this is visible in the projects that china implements in kyrgyzstan in uzbekistan, tajikistan, this is an increase in the number of technical cooperation forces with central asian countries, this is an increase in the number of energy carriers, that is, gas , oil, which are bought from countries in the region of china . advanced training for military personnel of nazi countries , now it is the military academies of china. if before it was russian weapons as e-e m-

monopolist of supplies for analysis countries now it is china. if earlier there was no question at all about the possibility of deploying any chinese military forces in the region, now china already has a military base on the verge, that is , china is gradually pulling these countries to itself , but not as allies. here it is important to understand that china does not offer the countries of central asia social asia of some alliance obligations. he talks about the fact that there are client-patron relations, that is, they are the patron, and the central interests of the country are clients of security proposals, economic projects , social and other things, etc. and he gives some bonuses, for example, an agreement on a visa-free regime between the kazakhs and china was recently signed. these are the bonuses that the chinese can give. the short question is this, and i hope the answer is short, because you can’t help but give a word to ms. ivan, look, that is, then we understand that this is a visit of central asian

leaders to moscow maybe he was motivated by china, so as not to quarrel with russia , go there. i'm not against it, but against it later . come to me and i'll give you a candy. that's right, i understand, because there were discussions for a very long time, why is this? literally yesterday, well, in those days, nobody wanted to go to kyrgyzstan alone, and then suddenly all five of them came, well, there were rumors about it that china got involved, china and iran got involved in order to push the leaders of the post of this integration about the members of the so-called russian union came to the parade, and it is no secret that even in the diplomatic circles of kazakhstan, they claimed that not the last role of tokayev's visit to moscow was played by the chinese side's conviction that it would be worth going so that mr. putin would not be so lonely on the podium he was taken i want to

if you continue this topic, in principle, how do you think everything is happening in the post-soviet space , these are the consequences of putin's war against ukraine, because before no one even imagined a format in which there would be no putin, well, there is a shanghai cooperation organization, and putin comes there the leaders of the central asian states are coming, it was created as an organization of trust between the former soviet republics and china and suddenly one of these countries falls out of this format and it is the russian federation before the war how do you do you generally think that this level of influence of russia in the post-soviet space will continue to decline on various flanks, of course . and i hope that not only in the post- soviet space and i. actually, i believe that the result of a-a part of the result of this war and our victory should be the complete isolation of the russian the federation is obviously weakening its influence in various parts

, including in central asia, but it is exactly the same in latin america, in africa, in other regions, which where it is building well , it continues to have certain influences, it continues have levers of influence and use them to their advantage, you and i also understand it well, that's why it's really accurate. well, it's not just a parallel process, but it's a directly dependent process that we're currently observing from the extent to which russia receives defeat after defeat on its territory of this aggressive war against ukraine, ms. ivan and mr. vitaliy, one and the same, where is the same question for ms. ivan and where is mr. vitaliy, namely , the president of the south african republic wants to come to kyiv with a peaceful initiative

, the pope of his special representative china the prince of the saudi team has already been sent, that is, in short, everything seems to me, well, the direction is clear, that it is the brazilian initiator , that means , where are they leaning , what do they want? some moment is beautiful for them for putin is beautiful just a-and there zelensky says well we are finishing the offensive we are all good for us everything is good for us everything is good for us everything is satisfying for us everything pleases us mrs. ivan well really we just see how mushrooms grow after the rain these so-called peace initiatives and various envoys who have now decided to bombard ukraine with their visits. i think that it is precisely in different ways, to a certain extent , let's say the parov initiative and there, too , the brazilian initiative to some extent

even chinese, but they are still more connected with russian, er, with russian approaches, and er, unfortunately, we still see the statements of the pope, which, unfortunately , unfortunately, put both the victim and the aggressor on the same level and it's quite so painful to watch it and i'd like a little bit of it more distinction between good and evil but from the pontiff and that is why i do not expect any breakthroughs from any of these initiatives and i very much hope that precisely ukraine, together with the democratic countries and the countries of the free world, will uh, with their support, we will be able to hold our position uh which should consist in the need

to restore the supremacy of international law and the country's right to self-defense, the country's right to restore its territorial integrity, all that is written in the charter of the united nations, so i do not see these initiatives as which method gave some very serious results. maybe we will be able to get an exchange and exchange of captives by involving , say, rymsky additional, or perhaps we will be able to extract our children who were violently deported to the russian federation, that is , i am counting on some such humanitarian things that can be the results of here are these , well, at least the declared initiatives, nothing else. hmm, i don't see anything groundbreaking yet, mr. vitaly, please tell us. and what do you

think about this kazkada proposal about visits to ukraine, the ukrainian capital, well, the itch of peacemaking, he already had such waves to some extent at first. european countries there, italy, er, germany, france, macron did not get off the phone at all, for some time he tried to call putin, er, this all showed , all these attempts showed that they were ineffective did this diplomacy necessarily end with a grain agreement with the interests of erdoğan, but again, apart from this humanitarian case, there are no moves towards a major agreement or there was no talk of major negotiations, it is obvious that this will also happen to these initiatives and the pope and lula and the president of the couples, since there is no reason for the possibility of their implementation even from the chinese initiative, it is simply a continuation of the great global

security initiative that was initiated by the and it was more related to the global climate, nuclear non-proliferation, food security, and ukraine was a small segment of this initiative, because in my opinion there are no promising at the moment, until the autumn, it makes no sense to expect these peacekeeping visits , on the other hand, it creates an opportunity for ukraine to conduct proactive diplomatic work with those who so instinctively come to us to visit their sites and popularize our solution concept there er, or the concept of the end of the war in ukraine. the so-called form of zelensky, is there anything else? i can’t tell you about another one, but it creates opportunities , for example, a dialogue with the government of brazil - this is

actually all of latin america where you can conduct talking about our position, voicing our position, going to their sites, this is the only plus, the only profile from these physicists. congratulations, clarifying another question , that is, do you think that foreign policy and diplomacy are aimed at brazil, among other things, because melnyk is going there as an ambassador, leaving behind the post how i understand the deputy minister of foreign affairs or not . well, i don't know. i think it's what i said. i said what it seems to me. what do you think? brazil is one of the centers of latin american politics. brazil is quite current. the economy and this is the center of power around which the subcontinent rotates, therefore, under their position from the position of the president . well, but for example, now the position of the un general assembly will be left in other international platforms of many countries of this

region. and also part of the countries. it is not just a south african country with a powerful economy , it is a country that actually influences the foreign policy of the whole of africa from the equator and down to the south. therefore, it is obvious that how their messages will be formed will depend voting in many positions on international platforms, as well as the mood of these countries, if the couple will act with uh, mixing good and evil , as mr. ivan said, that is, they do not distinguish between the aggressor and the victim, then it is obvious that you will expect support from some conditional gabon or nigeria for the ukrainian issue does not make any sense. if the couple will be clear or at least try to distinguish between good and evil, then, accordingly, the countries of africa are the so -called black africans. they may also change

their position from pro-russian neutrality at least to the real authority in the war with ms. ivanna, see this needs to be explained, we are turning to you 43 states rejected the agreement on damage registers from the aggression of the russian federation well, they approved it and what does it mean why should we be happy or sad why is it so important and why is it so very important news well, we have approved, we will know that there is such a kindergarten, such a factory, such a school has been destroyed, russian money or not. well, we all know this. 43 states know it too. mykola, unfortunately, i share your skepticism regarding such a winning relationship regarding the creation of this registry because i cannot understand there are already several different sites that have been created at the moment and this is the interaction of the general prosecutor's office of ukraine with the international criminal court, where a certain

registry of destruction is also maintained, so at the moment i am not very aware of it i understand what this additional memorandum will give, it is not even an agreement, it is a memorandum on the creation of a register of destruction, i would like it to be tied in some way to the same er international criminal court a it is best for a special tribunal that we as ukraine insists on its creation, we have 37 countries that are part of this group of initiators of the creation of this special tribunal. so that we already have with you the condemnation of the leadership of russia for the act of aggression for the crime of aggression, in fact, it seems to me that

it is necessary to proceed to the formation of these documents for the statute of this special tribunal to the treaty and even then to it tie any initiatives that can be based on it, let's say, then have some kind of interaction between those frozen assets of the russian federation, maybe in the future with confiscated assets of the russian federation or maybe with reparations, which i would like to believe to which russia has to agree as a result of the loss and defeat in this war, and then we can talk about some tools, but for now these are some parallel processes, so today i myself tried to understand about these winning such reports regarding this news, but unfortunately, well, i cannot share with you some deeper understanding

of what this will give ukraine now, maybe i don’t know, maybe vitaliy knows something better, unfortunately vitaliy won’t answer if he has 10 seconds, we can only do so much i apologize, i congratulate you, i think that this is a diplomatic , uh, clean story , this is a check on how many countries are simply on the side of ukraine. well, i don't know, we have so much work. 75,000 criminal cases have been opened against, to varying degrees, i say and where do we have 75,000 investigators and 75,000 prosecutors and 75,000 judges and 7 ? there are a lot of problems already in peacetime , but we apologize, vitaliy kulyk, director of the center for researching civil society problems, and ivan, in addition to poshklympish sensat , is a people's deputy of ukraine, the head of the committee

on ukraine's integration into the eu, thank you to belarus to belarus good morning svetlana tykhanovsky's advisor we are in touch with you mr. franyk greetings good evening yes lukashenko is alive or dead anyway what's wrong with him the state well they quote in one place but she lukashenko drowned or is still not the surfaces there, we have such a heat, now it’s coming in, what’s up, greek, all the diligent doctors, lukashenko is still alive. well, in principle , you know that francs, i would say so that we can see from lviv. it seems that the nervousness was quite high for 3-4 days then she fell when lukashenko appeared , then when they looked at him with that voice, this nervousness rose again, what is going on, can we know or guess about anything at all, not only the state

of lukashenko, but also the state of lukashenko's entourage, is it ready for his departure or is it ready for the fact that he will not leave, he will just be sick, yes, lukashenko is sick, what are the ministers and generals doing, well, the main result is that on may 8, we saw this alpha male, an invincible dictator, and on may 15, we saw an old man grandfather who is dying and lukashenko is actually weakening and this has been happening for two or three years. yes, he is really trying to play something there , he is constantly conducting training , he is meeting with putin today, he even received the president of nicaragua , and he said that he will find you in the nearest country easier, but we can still see that he is already losing the grip with which he came to power in the 90s, and this whole discussion that unfolded was very unpleasant for him because it was taboo to talk about when he will die. and

now everyone is talking about it, even the state propagandists are already discussing on their channels that even when he dies, we will continue his course, but all the talk that he will die has already become normal. i think that this also opens up such an opportunity for kusia in society, but also for finding our allies among the nomenclature. the nomenclature that feels simple you feel even if you are far better than me or in italy that what is possible that we can imagine what the ministers are thinking what his immediate entourage is thinking what the generals are thinking they do not understand i always i say that russia is nuclear, so it is more difficult to get putin, and lukashenko is non-nuclear, and it is much easier to get him through international courts or something else, and if they get lukashenko, they will get his entourage, well, that is, i would be more nervous in their place than

putin's entourage, let's say it is easier to get lukashenko, but attention of the international community only on putin and we are observing that western politicians do not understand the connection that when to hit polukashenko and when to hit his regime is that putin's weak, but there is no such understanding because the focus is only one and that is why we are constantly reminding that it is necessary to beat him for a year and a half, no new sanctions. they brought up against lukashenka , the problems with the nomenclature are that he is intimidated and spineless, and this is also the results of lukashenko's 28 years that he just made such zombies who carry out orders are guided only by what is removed from the administration of the president, on the one hand , this is bad because we have few brave allies like that, and on the other hand, when he falls, there will be no

one for example take under control the situation and with belarus, what can putin do, putin can of course go for a hard er occupation, drive his cart, try to put his exhibitors, but there are already troops , that's right, 5,000 people are left, they are, but any open occupation, when they will be hiding under it can be met by society in an absolutely unpredicted way in russia. i think that lukashenko is also understood in the administration . therefore, everything will be like this. when he dies, for example, it will be a moment of chaos that can create a lot of risk, but also open up for us, for supporters of democratic changes, well, the possibility of francs, look, i was always skeptical when someone

uttered the words that belarus is completely dependent on russia , and so on. it would be interesting if he sees that lukashenko is strong, he holds control over the state, we carry out her instructions. nafiga, let me change him , let him sit. what you just said disappears, that's when there is a vacuum, we don't know what to do with it, it's the same, the same to putin, yes, no , absolutely, absolutely, now putin has a big problem with the front, there are not enough people, there is not enough ammunition, everything, everything, this myth of the great invincible russia, and when the political crisis is happening in belarus now, a new political and maybe a military front is opening. it’s just that russia may not pull it, and then it may not pull it either. and if the ukrainian

counteroffensive is also successful, then in general, putin has by the side of belarus, which is fighting. i am for a change for democracy against russia, it is generally a big risk to lose everything, that is why putin is now holding on and will hold on to lukashenka, will send doctors to pump him out , when he needs to be artificially ventilated, keep him there so that he lives because only lukashenka now guarantees control without any major upheavals over belarus and lukashenko, the most loyal , the most pro-russian, he knows how to work with lukashenka, how to manage him, and any change he once grizzly - before the 20th year, he tried to make such a governor, this is this plan failed, and any change is simply auxiliary , this is the creation of an uncontrolled new uncontrolled situation in the morning, look at the question of the future, and one way or another in russia

there is some kind of market-like silk system, some kind of in ukraine, the quasi-market system may be more early, for example, than in russia, but since 1994, when lukashenka came, it is this kind of socialism. well, a lot of ukrainians even say such things as oh, the roads are clean there they are so equal, there are well, that is, such a planned introduction of the economy. now the question is, let's imagine tomorrow something changes to a democratic system somewhere, it starts to move in the other direction, but just transform all these monsters from state to private. it's just that ukraine and russia have passed. i apologize 90 1990s and what lukashenka’s rule did not allow to do in belarus, how ready is belarus for the intellectual capabilities of belarus, how far are there any contacts

with some british americans or the same by the very poles, estonians, estonians who went through these market transformations, because there will be a collapse, i can hardly imagine it. it was difficult for ukraine and russia then in 1992 - the third, fourth , and 91st. but imagine now in 2000, there are 20 , i wish you that it happened in 23 in the 24th or 24th year, if you get rid of it, it will just be chaos and a nightmare. how ready are the intellectual forces and opposition forces of belarus to take the reins and somehow lead the country, knowing where to lead, knowing how to make transformations not only social, not only political, but also economic and financial well, i don't think that the house will be a nightmare even when times are difficult and we can count on the participation of the belarusian society

and the international community there and here too. we have the experience of ukraine itself and the successful experience of poland. we started our privatization, but then lukashenko nationalized everything that was privatized after coming to power, we will go through this path for him and we have to worry about it, we have all passed, we will pass from other mistakes , we will learn, but it will have to be done and we must be very quick to integrate the belarusian economy into the world economy into the european one now they returned from reykjavík themselves to the council of europe and ukrainian leaders were also there, they talked about ukraine and belarus, everyone is ready to help if you have changes, they say how help us to make of me for the changes now we will say i think there will be no problem with advisers and with expertise, including from the aforementioned council of europe. and this nightmare is lukashenko 's system, where every official, every state enterprise simply looks into the boss's mouth or into the mouth of the president's administration itself