[000:00:00;00] we are china. well, it is beneficial for us to have ukraine as an economic partner, we will leave certain supplies of certain products, agro , metal-neon, etc. russia is also very important to us. a social initiative that has been running for 10 years one way one train it worked fine because for china it means the continuation of its chinese economic expansion it is not the way that other countries could offer themselves in this other world by force it is soft power - it goes, you know, like a panda, it moves gradually, yes, on its own ground, so china goes and conquers all the others, all

the new new new peaks, so i understood very clearly, yes, the lithuanian games, the extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to the people's republic of china and the joint head of the ukrainian-chinese business council an important person, it is very interesting to know his opinion about what is happening with china today against the background of the russian-ukrainian war and we are moving from far, far away china to the closest neighbor to belarus valery kalinovsky, a journalist of the belarusian service of radio svoboda, is in touch with us, mr. valeriu . thank you for

finding time for us. mr. lukashenko for today. what can you say? well, you know, i'm not a doctor and i don't give him diagnoses , but i can say that he never looked so bad, i've never been to this place , i've known him for 30 years and he's in such a bad state of health that is, he was not such a super healthy person, that is, he always always had some kind of discogenic sciatica , some problems with pressure. he is a very fat person. well, in principle, an elderly person has a lot of things , but now he looked very good, he was wheezing badly, he can't walk normally, but look at what he was raised, it was made clear that he has the best medicine, but many already assume that his state of health does not allow him

, let's say, to manage this regime that he created. health. yes, and of course he is still alive. that is, they show him, he says something, he shows some activity there, but it is very, very limited activity, this has never happened , especially now it is such a difficult time when belarus is actually an accomplice, helping putin in his war against ukraine and there are a lot of problems in the border areas and a lot of things . is he able to control all this? what are the security forces doing to him there, the ministers and so on? but in general he looks so bad. valery and tell me, please. well, how do you imagine? i understand that you don’t live in big houses in minsk, you don’t know what people are talking about there, but some minister, some general, some such people are close, they see

they have the same eyes as you, and if you see what is in him, that he is sick, that he is weak, that he is fat, that he is haunted by some diseases, that he does not walk well, and what do they think of us, mr. valeriu, to be honest, i apologize for spitting, but for them definitely not don't care, because they are just tied to him by such huge snares, and he, and he, not so much. what's next? well, you know, he picked them up, and they didn't put him up. that is, these are people who depend on him. and they can influence him very, very much limited of course they have different important ones through relatives through some kind of trust system and so on, but he appointed them and he selected them, that's why it can be said people who are tied to him, who depend on him and who, if not, can contribute to his removal from power suspended so a

nevertheless, they think of course. they think that in the future, how will they get into such positions, have such opportunities, including financial and so on, under democratic conditions, there is no such prime minister or there are any deputy ministers appointed by lukashenko. clearly , they would not they were because they are not the elite of belarusian society, they are very loyal people chosen by lukashenka , that is why they will know that without lukashenka, it means nothing, and it is another matter that they cannot try to somehow keep this system in power. but i think that how long it is if it is personalized, then it is not obtained, that is, well, you will understand exactly, and then the question is that mr. putin thinks about it as a species, do you imagine whether he does not want to support it in the future or is he afraid of a vacuum that may arise if he is very ill, i apologize for the tautology mr. lukashenko

and he will not be desdatable something needs to be done there. russian troops in belarus. as i understand it, there are very few there. well, two, well, 3,000. well, 4,000. these are not forces capable of bringing order in the russian sense. what should moscow do in such a case if they see that everything is on the border between er serious health and death or rather serious problems with health and death here here you know the choice is not so wide well you have to understand that russia's attitude towards belarus is the same as towards ukraine, it does not perceive belarus as an independent state and belarusians as an independent the people also want denazification, as they said to belarus, that is, now, by the hands of lukashenka, this denizification is being carried out, all belarusian national organizations, societies , newspapers, mass media have closed

everything possible, and all this is happening maybe some, and not so much at the wish of the sly as at the wish of, let's say, russia and putin so wants to control here in a certain sense. integration programs, the tax system there, he integrates a lot of things into russia, let's just say, formally , sovereignty is preserved, and maybe it will be revived like this without lukashenka, without putin. i think that belarus will also be revived, but still, i understand him that belarus belongs to putin belarus is not needed independently, and lukashenko he supports only as one of the levers of his influence on belarus in his policy of belarusianization and russification, therefore

, of course, lukashenko is beneficial for him, he will support him. i understand something myself that there is no sociology and there is no time to think about sociology in belarus, but well, let's rely on your feelings, your feelings of your environment, to the extent that in belarus they understand that independence, happiness and the absence of russia are twins, it is the same thing you can't achieve anything if you continue to rely on the fact that well, we have russian and belarusian languages, and we want from europe and with russia, well with russia, this is all that was heard very often at the time, now it is heard less and less in the minds of people who have an understanding that russia is an existential problem, i didn't want to use the word enemy

, but i personally think that the existential enemy of belarus as well as of ukraine is russia. for everything with in the 20th year, when mr. putin in russia actually supported terror against the belarusian population against the belarusian revolution by suppressing this revolution, which was against lukashenka, and in fact he did not know what to do if putin did not support him, did not send troops there, some propagandists and feel the feeling that here he is standing there, and it is very unfair to the belarusian people, this was the behavior of russia and putin - the first thing that affected us was the acceptance of russia by the belarusians, and the second and maybe even more important is the war that russia went to war against ukraine and lukashenko used belarusian territory

, many belarusians also used this. i think that the absolute majority of 90% do not want this war against the participation of belarus in this war, and they understand that russia is a war. therefore, now everything is very became very acute, then another question arises regarding mr. lukashenka, he recently stated that he does not believe us in the counteroffensive of ukraine , advises russia, advises ukraine to start negotiations , etc. lukashenka is this his? well, the whole world says let's have peace. well, lukashenko will say to himself, let's have peace, but there are some countries that don't believe .

in mind and you know, i can't act as a spokesperson here and answer what he meant there , but all his activity now is more related to the question that was asked to me first, that is, that he wants to show that he is effective, that he monitors the progress situation that he can react and say something, this is only to declare about himself that he is following something and that in general these meetings and conversations are not canned, as they say, that is , there are some conversations recorded in advance, it is not known what he updates in this way and shows that here i am i recently met with this governor of something when he gathered a bunch of photos and immediately showed this meeting about airplanes. he immediately talked about airplanes because it was not very important. it was already for the belarusians that four russian airplanes and helicopters were shot down in the bryansk region, but it showed that he appeared now after these events, this is not a canned food, i perceive it that

way, but it means that his statements on this matter. but please tell me my sources who still had contact with belarus there 5-7 years ago, who were in belarus, they were europeans who were allowed at least these. they said that the son of lukashenka, the elder, he actually occupies some very strange positions, but these positions are actually the curator the curator of intelligence, the kgb, the curator of the armed forces, the curator of some special operations forces, in short, he is such a serious figure . do you think it is possible for lukashenko to go the central asian, er, central asian

way, just appoint his son, unlike the younger one, he is already a grown man, he is over 40, just his successor and everything will be fine and the next one will start doing what his father bequeathed to him. well, you know five years . especially for national security, and after the 20th year, lukashenko dismissed him from this position, er, i suppose it is so clear that everything happened because he did not support this rover, the eyes of massive falsifications, and for three years, including in their family, there were disputes between lukashenka and his sons, i don't know how there is inside, like kolya, the younger, what they said, but they said this about viktor, that is, that he would not want such a thing and that is why he was suspended, by the way, those who were

related to him were also suspended by the then head of the kdb there the ministry of internal affairs and the investigative committee, lukashenka fired everyone, that is, now viktor lukashenko has the position of the head of the national olympic committee , who is isolated and will not participate in any olympics at the moment. that is, his very insignificant position, of course, had connections when he was there at this position with all the security forces and he felt very free and everyone looked at him, now it does not look like he is so influential, secondly, he is not quite a charismatic person like lukashenka, he no. he can't speak very well, he's not a politician, that is, he's an apparatus worker, what kind of work can he do, that's why i don't suppose that he would be able to be like that , but if lukashenka wants to do it , it's hard to say, he only paid attention to the fact that when he was carrying out this constitutional reform last year, he wrote his formal successor, he wrote a person

who holds the position of the speaker of the republic council, such a kochanova is a very devoted person in belarus. she seems to be formally supposed to become the successor in case of what. well, but i i think that after all, lukashenka has no desire not to hand over power to anyone. thank you very much, valery kalinovsky, a journalist of the belarusian service of radio svoboda, was in touch with us, explained to us what is happening in belarus and now we will talk about children, about displaced persons in fact, because there is such information , it is quite strange, i can’t interpret it myself , that’s why i turned to experts who understand more, so putin wrote some kind of appendix to add a clause to some

russian law. well, if you can name something that accepts russian, i think it's also so debatable, to put it mildly, the creation of conditions for the return, including from abroad , of residents of the donetsk people's republic , luhansk people's republic, zaporizhia oblast and kherson oblast who left their permanent residences during the period of the special military operation is enough for me is this strange or does this mean that these people who fled first of all to russia they now have to return from russia to zaporizhzhia or to luhansk region or to donetsk region or

to kherson region, do you mean those who fled to europe or to the unoccupied part of ukraine? and it is also completely unclear why there is no crimea here, if there is one. nothing is said about crimea, so these are such amazing moments. oleksandra romantsova, executive director of the center for civil liberties good health, mrs. oleksandra, you can explain to me, i ca n't understand anything, but this is what mr. putin signed, this clause about the need to create conditions for us residents of donetsk and luhansk kherson to return to their homes kherson oblast and so on, is it that they were scared of international sanctions, or do they understand that they already have so little money that they cannot pay these people who moved to russia and need some kind of pension there

? i don't know what apartments they should find or something shorter. what is this that's what, what's that, oh, we'll guess on the way now, of course, it's called, well, in the sense that, unfortunately, we can only uh-uh offer some potential uh-uh potential versions, that is, first of all, we we must remember that uh-uh, russia poorly organized country in terms of what until now, these refugees and migrants from donetsk and luhansk who appeared in russia since the 14th year still live in very strange conditions and if they have not moved to some relatives or to some prepared places of work, then they are still in the status of people who have no housing, no work, and no social protection , that is, on the one hand, you have to remember this and they completely put it on the regions, that is, roughly speaking, they sent it to chelyabinsk, accordingly, it

should be created there by some condition, according to them there are no instructions, there is no support, and the regions, you know, do not differ either, the organization is excellent, most likely, one of the aspects of why they decided to do this directly by order, in a certain way, for two reasons: first , people are interested from russia, even in the chaos of mariupol, kherson all the other ways they have to somehow justify what is called can't stop the eyes yes that is they do it because we wanted so on the one hand on the other hand hmm can they thus strike them out with some kind of social support there they can't get pensions because they said that the so-called referendums annexed all these territories to the russian federation. that is, it is not supposed to influence. but russia is such a country where the idea may not work. and they really are like that. well, these regions will be

subsidized because there was a war there, but there will not be, for example, full provision . that is, again, this is divination on putin in that plan, to understand whether they are covering their tail , which is already sticking out, which is bare, or they will, for example, release thousands of our people under this auspices civilian prisoners who are in prisons under the pretext of returning them to the territory because they were arrested in the occupied territory, well, for me, this would be the happiest option, in fact, what are they trying to cover up, because it is a war crime to keep these people in prison and in this way, oh no there was no such thing, but they returned adam, they themselves decide where they are going. if suddenly they decide to move to the territory of ukraine , it is safer, no, no, oleksandr, it is a very important question, you said it, i will get involved because i really did not have this information and i did not find it so widely, but you say

that they are returning even to mariupol. has it already acquired some kind of, well, such well, maybe not massive , but we can already feel it. that is, we can say that there are really tens or hundreds or maybe thousands of people are trying to return even to the state of affairs that exists in the east of ukraine, and the very word war should be used here, we spoke with volunteers from the russian side, including initiatives from people who were in the occupied territories before that, now they are on the territory of the russian federation is close to the border, and accordingly they, er, what do they do, they help to find money if people want to leave the occupied territory through the territory of russia and move on, or, well

, that is, because in fact, eh. imagine that there were no so-called even information on how to get organized and leave safely with children , with elderly people, with otsi-sim. that is, we passed on such information, but it is all difficult, and that is why there are otsi volunteer groups, those volunteer groups groups collect money so that it is expensive, because there, of course , no one does anything for free, and there are a bunch of so-called conductor drivers who transport to the territory of the russian federation what from all these, hmm, through all these points, including, in some places, they offer for there is a lot of money, there is an offer not to have filtering, well, that is, all this once again is a gray, ugly, absolutely corrupt market where everyone makes money from people who are already in a difficult situation, so there was

a reverse request to collect money for tickets for people from russia, on the contrary, in the occupied territory, people also see in russia some kind of transmission like that we have rebuilt mariupol or something like that, or they see, on the contrary, one of their houses that has not been bombed, especially the elderly, they really want to go back because it is psychological , well, it is difficult just to be in a new place they still believe that there is there i am waiting for their house and very often when they come further they do not move anywhere because again it is money now it is it is very primitive i say without without our political national vision it it's just about such an excuse me stupid everyday everyday question that people need money to move around and that's it and that's what these flows are. can we say whether it's 1,000 people or hundreds of people, unfortunately they can't, because i'll say it again. these are individual cases that volunteers tell us about

on the territory of some russian federation, for whom all this is a criminal matter if it is hidden. that is, these are people who work underground with this , but this is all there is a number of ms. oleksandr , let's move to another to another road to the children, well, look, what can the world do and ukraine, because i have it written here. well, there are 70 re-education camps in the territory of the russian federation, where if ukrainian children are being re-educated, they are made into mankurts. maybe at the end of the programs, if there is a minute of time, i will explain who the mankurts are and, uh, how many fatherless children are left without parents in russia, someone keeps a register of ukrainian children, we understand approximately 70

of these camps there, how many children have their parents killed in some children how many such children do we understand something here oh, this is very, very cool the question is because, unfortunately, this is a question from 2017. since 2017, ukraine has no data on citizens of ukraine who died and left behind minor children of ukrainian citizens or potential citizens of ukraine who were born on the territories of ukraine and fell into the so-called ldn houses well, as a rule, these are ukrainian houses for children without guardianship, such children have been admitted since 2017, we do not have any information before this, some exchange of this information took place until 2017. accordingly , we have uh, well, some thousands, we do not know

how many children are there, and these children, if they are not from the newly occupied territories and if their age does not allow it. for example, if he is 13, 14, 15, 16 years old, he can find on the internet how to contact our reintegration change service, they actually take care of this issue. -e and e and even return to ukraine to contact because when relatives e or ukrainian e-e well, ukrainian guardians contact us, most of the children were not in alternative homes but in alternative different family-type homes where there are 12 children yes, that is, when such guardians apply to level e. there is some kind of children's camp or orphanage in the russian federation, that is, without this central contract, there can be a refund, and that is why charitable organizations work like that, but you and i

do not have complete data, and unfortunately, the most terrible thing is that the children are small, who are younger than there, in six years , five years, they can change their first name, last name, date of birth, were they from him, did their parents remain , did they remain, did they lose each other during some kind of filtering, were they killed, or does he have relatives, but the child may not even know his ukrainian name, patronymic, his date of birth, and we do not know them, this is a terrible situation, and the international criminal court itself tried to stop this terrible situation very quickly by issuing this warrant, showing that it is actually a potential element genocide, and here it must be understood that this has been happening for a long time , that is, until now, is it possible, ms. oleksandr, is it possible to help this , this is a very important moment, let's imagine an ideal world in which there is no putin, in which

there is no his comarilla yes, and we, then we will be able are they lost forever, but if he had ivanenko, he left peter, peter, he was oleksandr, and he became nikolay, and so on . well, how did he move somewhere from here to from point a to point b, then from point without barrel in and on and on, this can be restored somehow, and there are various historical examples, including, let me remind you that uh, this is one of the forms of the national socialist party of the third reich, they chose rich -looking children, for example, from the balkans from eastern europe and installed german families and these children are already adults only learned, but again, it is necessary to understand that if the child was taken into care or given to the family, then a relationship is formed there , and that is why it is necessary to separate some things, first of all

, ukraine must prepare in its own legislation after the victory, the world itself must prepare opportunities for such children, if such children find information, understand, remember something , they must have opportunities to contact with whom and their rights must be preserved, and once again, these are not only the rights of a child , these are rights, fairly normal rights of a citizen the rights of a citizen of ukraine are broader than the rights of a citizen of russia, for example, in relation to, for example, it can be if the child had some kind of property, because there are children who have property but cannot dispose of it while they are in custody , for example, and they should dispose of it later, that is, in fact, it a lot of questions that follow the fact that the child is a person. maybe she will be an adult when the child learns about this that she is a citizen of ukraine

, yes, that is, they carry these opportunities, this is on the one hand, on the other hand, when we spoke to mrs. oleksandra, on the other hand there is no time for the other side, time is such a story that you can't get anywhere thank you for talking to us, we can come back to it oleksandr romantsova to perform the executive director of the center for civil liberties was in touch with us and will not be with us in touch with you iryna koval with news from espresso thank you mr. mykola literally in a moment about the most important events 19:00 in ukraine news time on the espresso tv channel in the studio ryna koval welcomes all viewers and we start with the situation in bakhmut there the situation is critical, the representative said