[000:00:00;00] russia is fully in control of cherevaty, meanwhile, the spokesman of the eastern group of forces, serhiy cherevaty, has already explained what zelensky meant, or at least what the general staff of ukraine officially means. i mean that several buildings, at least on the outskirts, still remain ukrainian here, of course, is a question of communications and a question of symbolism to a certain extent, because do we control what this city is, if we control even one or two houses somewhere on the outskirts , which are endlessly shot with artillery the russians now, well, actually, the question here is not so much to a-a perceive control over bakhmut just for the sake of controlling bakhmut and it’s as if a-ah well, that’s the favorite trick of the russians but they abstract from the absolutely entire situation of the general from the whole

picture at the front yes and here they are concentrating exclusively there on taking one single city and and here if in this format they sharpen all their propaganda for this and in this format here they lived there for the last few months, what in the end did he do to himself eh well in the last from weeks to months well, such insane popularity among the russian population, but in general, if you look at the broader picture, but in fact, we remember . first of all, for the armed forces of ukraine and for the command of the armed forces of ukraine to a-a exhaust the russian potential as much as possible , and this is the situation. in order to strengthen the support of its defense, including in the southern

direction, which was also achieved, that is, in fact, from a strategic point of view, bakhmut fulfilled its function in principle, and if the fact that we continued to hold it , continued to fight there - this is evidence of what is obvious according to ukrainian estimates command, we had enough resources to continue to do this and , most importantly, to get the results that we are counting on, that is, to continue to tie up the russian troops and further push them against this direction and, in principle, from this point of view, well, if the question of whether the ukrainian troops currently control bakhmut is, well, it is more . to say accomplished is another thing that gives the russians control over bakhmut in the situation of these crazy

losses and in the situation of the fact that , well, now we are too well, because of this quote by zelensky, we are concentrated in the very place but let's not forget that last week, the week before last, and our general staff officially announced that the ukrainian military had advanced quite well in the southern and northern operations. i apologize. well, we didn't invent the bakhmut fortress. we didn't invent this endless narrative about heroism and so on. well, that is this is not without excluding this heroism and not including this confrontation for eight or so months. well, but we did not come up with this. that is, this is a narrative that is, in principle , formulated by the state propaganda machine of ukraine, including definitely. well, here we do not absolutize the ukrainian strategic communication and our information policy, so that is, well, here , if it were also a-a in the same way as with the questions counteroffensive yes, here, uh , well, uh, there were actually no unanimous assessments

yes, both official and unofficial because of what is happening in bakhmut and why this confrontation is needed, what it gives from the point of view of strategic strategy and, as it were , strategic value, but in general, well, if what the russians, well, if they practically entered these ruins that they left behind and -e on these months and endless shelling of civilian quarters in bakhmut, in fact, it does not provide any strategic value because, uh , there is a big question whether they will be able to hold this, well , this geographical point, uh, plus, again, i started talking about the fact that the ukrainian troops are advancing it is quite good on the northern and southern outskirts of bakhmut, which in principle threatens the russians with a potential encirclement at this point, therefore, from such a strategic point of view, there are very big doubts that the russians get

at least some a-a advantage from the fact that uh well they threw these statements into the propaganda and their space yesterday. thank you to the panther taras zhutenko, expert on international security of the democratic initiative foundation, candidate of political sciences, members of the public council of industrial industry of ukraine, he was in touch with us, and now we are attaching this conversation with mr. viktor shlinchak, head of the board of the institute of world politician and editor-in-chief of the central committee, mr. victor , we welcome you, we are expecting the start of the press conference of the us president joe biden every minute, if we interrupt the conversation with you but then we will ask you to join in, the broadcast has already started from the hall where joe biden is supposed to be, so stay with us, it's me and the audience , and i'm telling you too well, but so far there is no biden, let's take the opportunity, actually you are a person who, er, understands communications, er- because you are a person from the world of media, the day before, there was information that

the russians had occupied bakhmut, putin had already boasted there , he said that he would give out awards for all this, and they were waiting for volodymyr zelenskyi, and it is clear that foreign ukrainian journalists i don't know who went there from ukraine. is there anyone or is present ? it is clear that this question would be asked and now everyone is scratching their heads as to what president zelensky meant . foreign journalists understood that everything bakhmut is already russian in the president's office is being denied. the military is also talking about it would be possible for the ukrainian head of state to express himself more precisely and now there would be no confusion around bakhmut . good day, colleagues. the fact is that i looked at the transcript of how the question was asked and it was really the president

zelensky was asked two questions at the same time, and which of them was answered is still not clear. at the same time, i believe that the situation in bakhmut should be commented on by the military. i don't want the civilians there to uh, uh, get confused about what characteristics they have and build some plans. let's give all of this to the general scale and let them comment on this situation first of all , as far as communication is concerned, there is a question because when we say that we don't want to become like russia, the main thing is not to become the same russia regarding the communication strategy and these are all the peoples about bakhmut about the bakhmut fortress, successful so-called communication cases that the representatives of the authorities there promoted well, this

is the same thing that various skabeevs and their ilk are trying to do in russia, the creation of some symbols and then a complete lack of understanding of how society can then convey certain problems that arise during these events. and no. by the way, yulia melnyk, if we don’t want to, and what’s more, they make fun of russians or those who are surprised there, being shocked by what the russians are doing, say why then our our leadership is somehow similar to that which governs them. well, the point is that you have to be objective. war involves propaganda from two sides, and here the main thing is not to overdo it in this propaganda, because the most important thing is lost, the most important thing is lost trust when we say that

ukrainian society is more mature and that with ukrainian society, we need to speak more clearly, and our words are not to impose some mythical narratives, but to say some things sincerely and frankly. and we are ready to accept this information, then there is no need copying what is happening in russia is a very simple recipe. by the way, there is a column about the thin green line and about what if you watch, for example, a telethon, the only news. it gives the impression that the military is demanding. well , where are those ? we return all our lands, and he says to the viewer who watches this telethon, for example, there are no other sources from which to draw information, one can get the impression that victory is almost

in our pocket and why then go to the official army there were even reports on the eve of all this that we learned that bakhmut is okay. anyone who follows the topic very closely knew that there was already one quarter left, but this was not officially stated anywhere, moreover , there were reports for several days in a row that we had advanced there by 100,000 m there by 300 million centimeters and so on and so on and so on. good day, andrei, well, look, for the russians , the story of bakhmut is the story of so-and-so, so -and-so, the expression that they took kyiv for this, they erected in it you equals, well, a huge victory and in- they introduced it for many months in our front line situations that were very tense outside bakhmut, well, dozens

, but we also for some reason, uh, bakhmut , why did we get involved in this. why did you get involved in this? we also got involved in this uh-uh well, in this narrative that the russians gave us, i am going back to the article that you just cited, kazarin is not there, there is another narrative that we will also get into, and this is the narrative that a counteroffensive automatically equals victory, this is exactly the story that is very similar to bakhmut you don't need to think that the counteroffensive will end the war, you don't need to understand that the counteroffensive is a 100% uh event that will be without victims and that some uh will fight, well, she has cyborgs and we will have absolutely no losses we are all fine

we understand that during a counteroffensive or an offensive, quite a lot of people's lives are always lost, and this factor should not be taken lightly. i am certainly not calling here that we did not hope for the armed forces of ukraine, but we must understand the price that will also be paid for every meter of ukrainian land and in pavlo barracks there is also the fact that when people who somehow distance themselves from the war begin to live their lives more or less like that, when the war becomes personalized for them, that is, when they hear some specific surnames, when they see the surnames of some of their relatives , our colleague olena chernenkoi died son, and then you understand that this war is on some mythical people fighting, and they will bring this victory and then we will say well, we believed in this victory because of that, now there

is a very big risk of what we have for for many of our compatriots, the war has become very similar to the anti-terrorist operation of 2015-16. where the front is somewhere far away, the war is somewhere far away . mythical people are really fighting there, not those who live nearby. bridge, but at the same time, there is a feeling that it is possible, this is a psychological feeling that people are trying to push the real situation aside, well, cottage cheese is cruel , he is ruthless, he knows mercy, and in fact, to all people except those who have already been dumped somewhere abroad, this war is still for them

is knocking on the door if now if now this thin green line well, we understand what it is about and i am worried about something else in this communication, but actually this is a question of trust because when suddenly everyone, for example, realizes that we were cheated at some point it will be a loss not only of trust in authorities, what will be scary actually inside the country, it will also be the trust of the partners who give us without whom we literally do not exist in our country, there is no money in the budget and pensions are paid from american money. are supplied supplied by this realization that after all one cannot lie in politics in diplomacy especially one cannot lie serhii sydorenko wrote correctly there is a situation when you when you cannot answer directly when you cannot tell the truth but this does not mean that you can tell a lie this

will always come back as a boomerang on andrii . this is absolutely some kind of rhetorical question or rhetorical statement. it applies to most politicians and in this case we really perceive it. it is quite so acute because the situation uh, we have a situation with war here as well it is really important not to make any distortions and when society will stop trusting any statements of, well, politicians . it is one thing when it was necessary to reassure the society, relatively speaking, when the prisoner was released in two, two or three weeks, and another thing when this month has passed. people they understood that the war was long and they had to keep themselves in their hands, and

they no longer needed an arrestee, but arestovych, who was on parole, continued to work. not for the benefit, but to the detriment of mr. viktor, literally just now one of our viewers reacted that it is the journalists’ fault, they should not provoke people because people should not know all the military news. what is happening , journalists are always visible, this is a thesis that i have been hearing for the last 25 years since i started working in journalism and this is the easiest person on whom you can push any accusations and on whom it is easier to bill because if there were no you can say that now journalists have interpreted

the answer incorrectly from the president, for example, is it possible to say that it is the journalists' fault that they screwed up the arrestee's rating, or that the journalists are to blame for going and simply standing in line to the head of the ukrainian e-e intelligence service, who every week produces dozens of interviews for various journalists and gives the impression that they are preventing him from working directly at his work and distract him from his specific work and do not allow him to effectively cope with the assigned tasks. hryhoriya gongadze, who turned 54 years old, but he did not turn 54

years old, because he was killed, we pull back his head as we remember and uh, he is also to blame for the fact that we are here now, that we are at this point now, because we could be in secret union with the president kuchma or with him, i don't know who now, some kind of successor, we could now not fight with anyone, the government is already русский второй государственный there might already be the first one, but in a word, everything could be different if it were not for such journalists, they are like that, it is possible see what is happening there because of the journalism there as such there is no freedom of speech as such, and everything would be the same if all these were journalists with their uncomfortable questions that do not allow us to live peacefully in our sometimes society and certainly politicians. thank you, sir. thank you , sir . was in touch with us, but now

we are adding to the conversation mykhailo neprana, the first vice-president of the chamber of commerce and industry of ukraine, mr. mykhailo, have a good day, congratulations , congratulations, you may not believe it, but i am always a pleasure i communicate with service journalists, and now i am not a civil servant, i have such a public job, but you know, journalists in reality in my life , well, there were different ones, they were commissioned. was associated with the inter tv channel, and on the other hand, journalists will force you to keep your form, you know , to answer accurately, be ready, ah, well, there are people who call him the insidious mykola veresen , when the editors call you and say that let's talk with mykola later, i say, but he will talk

to me about completely different things, he knows when to be sneaky, he says, well, that's how it went , it went a completely different way to provoke you know and you have to be in shape, you have to answer so that the magazine psychologists, to be honest, in ukraine , there is confusion with concepts. in our country, journalists are often called journalists. and with which he hosted a travel show before a full-scale invasion of traveling through all kinds of exotic countries and filmed this program and ate some worms there and so on. well, that's what they eat in these exotic countries. and now he interviews those people who decide the fate of ukraine

somehow has access to them in he for some reason ended up first, for example, in buch in irpen, in fact, it can be explained why he and not you, why why , explain, and i think they took him. you understand i.e., the level of presentation, the materials he was, because he was like that well, he wasn't forced, he didn't load, he wasn't so accessible to a small ukrainian, they understood , i ate a worm, a worm - that's cool. and you , don't eat and went away, they asked him to interview him. because he probably needs to was to convey, well, you know, there without any complicated or any, but it is accessible if you understood a small child. and why and without uncomfortable questions , look at this, this is the whole point of this, it is increasingly rare that a journalist should not report anything

, he asks important questions that are important for society, even if society does not fully understand all issues are important, that's what the point is, that's the meaning of journalism , it cannot serve. we can discuss this topic with you . but we have a completely different topic of conversation . i am now being told that instead of discussing with you what to do with ukrainian exports, we will now speak for the work of journalists and officials and public figures who, on the one hand, do not like journalists, and on the other hand, do not can be without them well, we are doomed like two people in a boat who balance being together so i am philosophical about this and ready for your uncomfortable questions listen to what is going on with exports, luckily, exports are going to me very good news i was sure in principle but a little. to be honest, i was worried about the grain corridor because

there was silence until the last one, and this silence was clearly too serious. the cutting was going, it was clear that the russians use grain in the corridor to solve their problems. although they like to tell us that the sanctions are only on the policy , but it turns out to be of no use , they persistently demand that they be removed from the substation of the cunning bank in order to allow more exports to be included and the soft pipeline-tagliatti odesa although they declare and tell that they have solved this issue and they transport ammonia in the novorossiysk railway and from there they already load it and take it to their customers in the world, that is, how it turns out that the sanctions are actually not beneficial if they use the grain corridor situation and here there was a completely new

player appeared, you know what's interesting, the english were once in the party there , the bulgarians, the romanians, the new one is attacking geographically here in the black sea, they are our neighbors, they are players, they are somehow like that well, a little activity showed that turkey was the leader, and then the british joined the game, who said that if they did not agree , they would be ready to provide english convoys for ukrainian ships so that they would export grain from the black sea ports ah, i don’t know if it had an effect or not. well, most of all, it had an effect because , plus, erdoğan took such a tough position in terms of geopolitics and business, and fortunately, they extended it until july 16 for another two months . the most likely thing is to exchange a soft pipeline to the port of mykolaiv, because this is actually a very important option for us, but here the problem is between bad and very bad, what to choose, on

the one hand, to stand your ground, not to let it means losing in exports because the two third port of chornomorsk is not open, the railway and road transport, of course, it will not cope with the volumes that can be transported by sea and although there are good projects and although by road transport, the export of products from ukraine increased 20 times and 10 million were transported by railway what never happened during these years of ukraine's independence, but in any case, 25 million were still transported by sea, that is , this situation continues to be difficult, but from the point of view, if we are talking about the economy, then thank god td exports and we will have hope that it will be at a good level, and recently we were so surprised by what our military told us that it turns out that most of the missiles that have been shot down by our air defense systems in recent years turned out to be of russian production already this year, and

of course they are not they can fire 50 to 100 missiles at us at once, but they don’t have that kind of thing. but that’s not all the new missiles , that is, this release continues, even though all the goods seem to be under sanctions, we know that russia does not have the ability themselves. to do and so on. well, the country is not so advanced. let's put it this way, but the nice times has researched . here are the statistics from open sources that in the last year there seem to be two goods worth $2 billion that were supplied with a dual purpose to kazakhstan, armenia and other countries that transited overland through russia, but in a mysterious way only half of the goods for the designated points did not reach the aircraft turbines , radio parts, etc.

how many people went there in kazakhstan? well, you know that. i like to quote karl marx. although he is not a fashionable car, he wrote about it. yes, there is a long quote at the end of the a-a. the main thing is that for 100% profit. there is no such crime that a capitalist would not commit to that. to get them, therefore, of course, on the one hand, i sanction, on the other hand, there is a desire to earn money, and this desire does not go anywhere, what to do. so , now is the right time for this , and there is the next 11th package of sanctions. the question is not the introduction of new ones, but compliance with benefits kill you then what do you have? did he appear? and will he give his? i can't yet. yes, the first vice-president of the chamber of commerce and industry of ukraine was with us . well, now at the summit, jason made it to a group of seven, like me. i want to emphasize those negotiations that are

-e i'm driving at home before i er-e go-, er i came here and i held talks with the leaders of the congress er said i put forward my proposal to reduce er spending by er three er trillion dollars and i earlier that it was time to propose a complex of approaches that are new to move forward, but i must note that most of the measures they proposed have not been adopted , i will not, for example, give 30 billion tax breaks to the oil industry, they do not need these 30 a, while health care can currently to be in danger because they want to reduce the uh program

a-ah medicare or uh reduce by a hundred thousand the number of jobs in education or cuts in other social uh in social jobs i also will not protect in a tax way uh- e crypto- currency trainers and so on, you need to stand you and i, they also advanced their position, you can't just accept their party whims , as i said, default is not an option. i hope that the leaders of the opposition are also supported. america has never declared a default in its time and never will, we

will talk about uh that's when i'll be on the plane because now it's 5-7 in the morning there and our teams uh were to work so we had a few busy days in hiroshima and we had a very good progress because i also speak to the group of seven at the prime minister eh -e kishida president zelenskyi of ukraine, this is the third time i am