[000:00:00;00] the people, the nationality here already depends on the situation eh, that is, they identify themselves as different but combined with each other. this is actually what allows everyone eh, really eh, actually, ukrainians also work on the other side, here one was mentioned for volcanoes and some others er, other countries, in fact, once again, you have to understand that , unfortunately, very often, the territories of the state actually have administrative borders that are defined by some politician there, pro-administrative policy in a legal way. they are very often different from how they are actually placed where they are there the vast majority of people who actually deify themselves as a different nationality and where they can occupy even more on the territory of hm percentage of the population of the actually supposedly titular nation here and this is also especially, that is, well, the brand of the same ukraine, that is,

in fact, igor, the last question i have not the last one in my there were about 45,000 more questions, but there was simply not enough time, but now the question is about russia, and somehow you see your opportunity, i’m not even saying disintegration and separation, i’m sitting and thinking about russians who have been used to being imperial all their lives and consider we will say ourselves as the first among equals so very gently so as not to offend anyone. and now they will have to pass the state of russians and russians, as for me, there is no such thing as a russian language, and now they will somehow have to live in some sense of a national state in principle, is it possible? well, i don’t know, i would understand that it is possible in 500 years. i think in 500

years or 650, it may happen, but closer to 10-20 years, it is possible by the transformation of the brains of people for whom everything yakutia, chechnya is all mine, and then i i'm russian, i live here here is muscovy, here is ryazan, there is this one already from st. petersburg, he says let's separate , god forbid that there they themselves decide this transformation, how painful is the transformation of pain, so it is possible in the next 10-15-20 years ? well, tell me another country that has eastern russia, western russia, and so on, that is, we have western , eastern ukraine, north, south, and russia does not have that. that is, it is actually some kind of simply huge state that is in itself combines different

territories with the one thing that all these different territories can unite this concept of the enemy, these are the nazis and the concept of the last great war, which they won, i mean the great patriotic war precisely in their execution - this is the great father, that is, what in our understanding is the soviet german-soviet war 41-1941-1945 years ago, is it possible that some kind of disintegration of russia is possible, for sure, yes, and this is actually the only algorithm, when we will be secured, it is much more powerful , safe from repeated attacks because , this time, they announced the language and if we simply push them to their limits 10-15 years will pass, keep saying that yes, but look at them, they suppress our faith , and we also have the right to the moscow church, let's fight them for our church, again, a return to

medieval traditions. when the planting of christianity continues to listen because the next guests are also knocking, they are already knocking on me, he says and we also want to express ourselves please excuse me ihor kulyk director of the archive of national memory historians archivist we will definitely not take you yet and we will definitely talk about it sorry for interrupting you because kateryna ryzhenko, deputy executive director of transperience international ukraine is in touch with us and it's nice ms. kateryna because i also have a question for you, good afternoon, thank you for the invitation, thank you for coming to us on sunday, look here, there is such an interesting discussion i am not contacting you at the address. you are definitely not an objective person, because you are called to fight corruption, but i will ask you

a question just in case at my own risk. those who are called to stop corruption, to stop corruption, to do corruption, send people to prison, this corruption, and others say, well, finally, we started arresting it, that is, ukrainians , arresting high-ranking officials. is that good or bad, because there is a question for ms. kateryny of course, it is bad to have a case in existence in the state regarding potential bribes of judges of the supreme court here, well , there is no other way. somehow it can be interpreted.

just like the suspects and other judges of the great panel of the supreme court, however, there is of course a thesis that this indicator is a certain indicator of the fact that the anti-corruption infrastructure is an ecosystem, or if that is the advantage of calling it in reality, it works in the country , it works in a warring country, etc. there is still an investigation of such simple , perhaps even unprecedented cases , if judges are a separate category of people especially protected by our state, as well as judges of the supreme court, therefore of course the fact that this is an investigation is that we for some reason, the details. if this case even reaches the court, we hope, because now only the pre-trial investigation is taking place, then this is an unambiguous positive for us and an indicator that we need to move forward with the anti-corruption reform, but also with the judicial reform, because, well

, there are no such cases in the independent, progressive, democratic state and now i am asking you precisely about the following, i am asking you , you know, but the citizens who are watching the program right now, even the majority have no idea, because after losing the position of chairman, mr. knyazov remains a judge of the supreme court i will repeat that he is not the head of ukraine, but he is a judge of the supreme court, and in order to remove him from this position , a decision of the supreme council of justice is required. we do not know what decision the higher court of justice will make, but we have strong suspicions, ms. kateryna, that different people are different people with different love for money . maybe someone will enter it, not enter it, and so on . and then the question arises. and there is a way of relatively

quick and relatively quick surgery in relation to at least law enforcement agencies, in relation to at least judges of judges in relation to cases of higher courts. that is, we understand that therapy does not help, which means some kind of surgery is needed. and what can happen when they cleaned it and so and so and came up with advice and a bunch of foreigners were invited and a bunch of ukrainians were invited and all of them with binoculars they walk and look at under a microscope and suddenly the head of the superior walks out there is some kind of strong medicine or operation, you know, from simple solutions to very complex problems . well, it is very difficult to find, it will be very lucky for us. if it is very easy, you know, in one sentence , you can fix the systemic problems that we have in

ukraine. well, even before independence, we were also now we continue to fight with them if we talk about the fact that you correctly raised the issue of the status of the princes, and the princes were not only the head of the supreme court from this position , thank god, the supreme court itself dismissed him quite quickly, but he is also a judge, and a judge is not without reason, we have this additionally a protected category, well, because judges should be independent in their activities and protected as much as possible from potential influences , now they are playing for this protection, unfortunately, we will say yes to this one , this is a problem for us. question to not only was it necessary to not only remove mr. knyazev from the position of the head of the supreme court of the court, but also to deprive him of the status of a judge, for this we need the existing professional bodies of judicial self-government, namely the verkhovna rada

of justice, and here we return to our problem, which has been standing for the first year in ukraine this is generally the reform of the judicial branch of government , including the reform of judicial self-government bodies, and just in recent years , literally a couple of years, we have finally begun to move in the direction of some concrete steps in order to reform the supreme council of justice, the supreme qualification commission of judges, the very bodies that are responsible for both the appointment and selection of judges. if regarding disciplinary punishments of judges and other issues, well , directly the internal work of the judicial system and, unfortunately, one operation to exit with one surgical intervention, e- you won't fix this. to a certain extent, this is a long-term path that we have been on for a long time , but now the supreme council of justice has practically restarted and the high qualifications

commission of judges is in the process of re-opening. important not to stop these processes and to carry them out as soon as possible so that, first of all, the knyazev case is not delayed for a decision, i want for the sake of justice and um and also the potential , we hope a very small number of any cases regarding judges in general, uh, will not stop at that higher bodies of judicial self-government, that is, it will not interfere with the investigation, the court verdict will not interfere. the only thing i would like to say is that , as of now, under the princes, only his case is being investigated. on the pre-trial stage, that is, he does not yet have anything to do with the court verdict, nevertheless, -is well, given what we hear in

the public domain , of course, the prosecution is hopeful that it can adequately prove all these things when the case comes to court and are related. well, i hope so. i am completely on your side. these are really very strong medicines that are only given out by prescription in pharmacies , but this is a hope, as if to say to the mind , are there any effects? look, this does not affect judges, it affects lawyers prosecutors, doctors, journalists, cleaners, everyone. only the west itself, western civilization, went down this path a long, long time ago, having understood that doctors should only point fingers at each other and say that it is not a doctor or that it is a bad doctor, then self-purification of the judge takes place, not you and i, but the judges among themselves should

than i'm going to say something, we have a suspicion there. something is wrong there. and then there is a cleansing of the whole society, i'm talking from the cleaners to the ministers who simply say there is that minister. he does not close it, on the contrary, he runs to the third minister of internal affairs, he says that he takes the bribe, that's when it happens and this is us for years and years and decades so quickly, and there are ways to move apart from the society of social pressure , you know it seems to me right now and this is at that stage of development where we are facing a war that is going on in our country , we finally have the opportunity to advance a little more quickly the reforms that are needed now, these changes that are needed now, that's why even this case of knyazev, maybe even

a certain one, you know, the holy brush that he let's advise the representatives of the state government to make political decisions about making political decisions to understand that this is the last point of no return, which we cannot help but take advantage of . as well as our international partners and our further path to european integration , all this is tied to serious and purposeful steps both in the judicial reform and in the fight against corruption in general. at the end, i will tell you and the audience that i asked literally three or four weeks before his death, unfortunately, kakha bendyuki is one of the super reformers of georgia, he helped ukraine and i asked your judge what we should do

. such and such, but the judicial system is very complicated, i say and what and he told me then, i say it in the air, but maybe you will use it somewhere, maybe the audience, you, he says, i started looking at the lists of judges with ukrainian surnames in canada, the united states and britain there is a huge number of ukrainians people who understand the ukrainian language, who worked with judges there, and then he says that you can ask the american government or non-governmental organizations to pay their salaries, because they will not hire an american judge, they moved here, got good advisers like kateryna, and started judging properly, like us we are used to watching movies about americans, this is the only thing that i like, well, i understand that it is quite fantastic, but

this is something, well, the question pushed me in this direction it's all good. we finished everything with the deputy executive director of transperience international of ukraine, kateryna ryzhenko, it's just people who are engaged in corruption , not those who fight corruption, who are engaged in it, the rulers can be overthrown . and oleksandr drabynko of vyshnievet will appear with us now , it's very nice, thank you for finding time for us and you. i just read an interview with the priests of the moscow patriarchate who said such a strange phrase that

we have a tomos from the uoc mp there is a tomos from 1990 , hinting that it was given to filaret when these processes began in 90-91- 92 years that it was dan da-dan this tomos on the separation of the ukrainian church from through the exarchate from the moscow patriarchate to what extent it corresponds to the reality p oleksandr first of all i congratulate everyone on today's sunday easter holiday which continues christ is risen and glory to jesus christ glory to the heroes glory to ukraine is what bishop kliment talked about in his statement. i know what you are talking about. i thoroughly studied this issue in 2002 when i was writing my phd thesis at the kyiv theological academy on

orthodoxy in post-otelitarian ukraine with original documents and their copies with forgeries of this document that you are talking about, the history of its origin and subsequent use, it is actually known to me with absolute certainty what vladyka kliment says in his interview about the tomos and which in independent in the ukrainian orthodox church in the 90th year . so it can be called a tomos with a stretch. since a tomos can be any document that is not written and gives some rights and obligations, e.e., which are written in this deed. but at the same time, it cannot be the tomos in the sense in which the tomos about autocephaly about independence is said in the tomos that was signed adopted by the holy synod of the church of constantinople signed by patriarch bartholomew and the synodal members who

participated in this meeting of the synod on donation e made a decision on the donation of autocephaly to the orthodox church of ukraine and accordingly issued this synodal tomos of the constantinople mother church on the complete independence of the ukrainian orthodox church on its autocephalous status on its fifteenth place among local orthodox churches so in the 90th year at the insistence of e-e patriarch - at that time metropolitan filaret denisenko of kyiv and galicia addressed to the moscow patriarchate about the independent management of the ukrainian orthodox church church at the time of the exarchate, a decision was made to rename the exarchate to the ukrainian orthodox church , which, nevertheless, represents, as i did, and to this day represents the totality of dioceses of the russian orthodox church on the territory of the state of ukraine, and actually appears as sometimes it is called in a direct figurative sense. and when you only know it

as a letter, e-e, because the rights and obligations that are prescribed in it, it is said that the ukrainian orthodox church is from now on independent and independent in its management, however canonical law does not know such a form of being, e.e., canonical being, e.e., the structure of the church structure as not independent on its own in its management with the rights of broad autonomy , that is, there are rights, and even autonomy itself , regardless of autocephaly, this structure does not exist , as we can see from the course of the last of events when patriarch kyrylo simply selects the ukrainian orthodox church by his free decision of the diocese, as it happened very recently from the berdyan diocese , which he took direct subordination appointing a ruling bishop from the russian orthodox church from russia, the same situation arose with the eastern dioceses and the same situation arose with the dioceses of crimea , that is, direct intervention directly and

no er-er so to speak tomos . he wants , that is, there is no independence, independence. well, that document is indeed his name and it was written and signed by the patriarch, the late patriarch oleksiy, the original is directly in the possession of the current honorable patriarch filaret in pushkin's language, we must work exclusively only with his copies and talk about the fact that this is a tomos in the direct sense of a tomos. his box started somewhere in 2007-8, when it was about a new version of the statute of the ukrainian orthodox

church, which made it independent in relation to the statute that was. until that time , the ukrainian orthodox church was given more rights for what at one time, two more in 2009 at the synod of bishops, patriarch oleksiy at that time made the reprimands with his image public metropolitan volodymyrovych here is something in ukraine without our knowledge they accept some new editions of the statute well, there was a whole interesting story when oleksandr nazarov, a gypsy, and i then gave a specific explanation that we have no place on this document for either the blessing or the signature of the seal of the patriarch of moscow. thus, we actually act according to the document that was adopted earlier, that is, the history of von very big and very interesting, and you can talk about this topic ad infinitum, but father, look at a very simple and complex question, in fact , here it is from the grain and

the chaff. i am talking about the priests of the ukrainian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate. and if this is a low rank, and such people are near the land, resettled near the towns, near the cities, they are patriots, they help the ukrainian army, they collect funds . they are, on the other hand, ukrainians. to the top. i think that it is the same at the bottom, but the top has many enemies, direct enemies, ideological enemies of ukraine, and there was great hope that when the orthodox church of ukraine was founded, then they, these patriots, would gradually transition . it won't be fast because i don't know who today the war

has escalated, everything is so complicated and we continue to watch when i say that 12,000 of them are coming, as they say in moscow and the moscow patriarchate and when there is a survey people to which church to whom do you lean towards whom? 20 15 no no 20 no somewhere 10-15% say we are in the moscow patriarchate, how can we change it? well, there can be no people in the moscow patriarchate. there are people, but there are no people. but there are people who come. well, what is this , well, some kind of absurd , well, let's start with the terminology, they cross the road, not from the church to the church. i'm sorry, i'm such a specialist . sorry,

it joins. -e didn't cross er-e it's such a small straight there was a question about what you are asking. it is a question of seed and labor . yes, we have 70% of our conscious ukrainians who call themselves believers of the ukrainian orthodox church. my fellow countryman, the priest who baptized me has already died, his father, and his brother serves the moscow patriarchate in the ukrainian orthodox church. he says, what are we doing? they say that we are quarreling. i arranged that they come to us, he is a patriot , he defends ukraine today with a weapon in his hands, but he belongs to the ukrainian orthodox church of moscow, and he is an arhat, and i ask why, he says, well, my father served there, i was baptized, that is why i am a church, that

is, in people there is no clear awareness that the church is christ's and not the church of metropolitan onufriy, how do we sometimes cover up by idealizing certain people, not the church and patriarch kirill, but not the church of bishop epiphany in us, the church of christ, which has its canonical status and has its development precisely in this particular direction, however, unfortunately, our society has a very low level of canonically theological consciousness and the tendency is more towards such traditionalism, which has actually been absorbed into us over many years, our generation is changing. by comparison how long ago did communist ideology disappear from our society from the verkhovna rada, literally how did we get rid of it, and that’s how we got rid of it with the force of 20 years

of independent ukraine, and we have a faction of communists in the verkhovna rada was perhaps the most powerful of the first generation, we are so inert as we need to be. the new generation, the new generation that is already growing up in independent ukraine , it will never understand. russian or slavic our father if we have the ukrainian language why should we respond to the wings father i will not let you agree with all due respect i will not let you agree because trinity rublov andriy rublyov i really want your point it seemed that religious figures in russia should be happy that the ruble is being transferred from the ruble museum to the church, and what do you think about the fact that in moscow, here in russia, putin signed some order that now it will not be in the

ruble trinity museum, but in the russian orthodox church of the moscow patriarchate say something, then i'll say something , i'll say only what i understand. patriarch kirill wants this request to be transferred to the religious institution that calls itself the patriarchate of the russian orthodox church of moscow, this is a masterpiece of world heritage er, this is the time he wants to level his authority as much as possible, that here we have such good relations with the state from the side of their er head of state er putin. i think that this is open shamanism and he probably thinks that by doing so, he will establish relations with the church through the church with god for their murder of ukrainians and will have some preferences in order to successfully, from their point of view

, end the military aggression against ukraine that they started and continue in common with there is no christianity. actually, just like all of moscow, which has turned into a footstool of the kremlin throne, and most of all, here you can, everyone wants to have something of their own, due to the fact that something does not work out. as they say, it did not work. so kirill went wrong, so putin went wrong, well, now we decided to also use saint andriy rublev, who may have studied his art precisely on the territory of ukraine in his time. since we all saw the film rublev after the mongol-tatar invasion, when i in in principle, i can be inclined to the fact that it is this school that is expressed well, in this masterpiece of the ancient russian art of the holy trinity of andriy rublov, it is precisely

borrowed from those examples of art that were offered on the territory of ukraine at that time well, in connection with the fact that ukraine , the territory of kyiv ukraine at that time , e.e. russia , was devastated, of course he sought refuge in the northern regions. mule and i say goodbye to you, giving you the opportunity to inform you about the state of affairs in the country and abroad ani eva melnyk my congratulations , i will tell you about the most important thing later, together with the