[000:00:00;00] there is no possibility at all to approach there, even to feel there. in what kind of big class, in which case , that is , once again, the russians will themselves exploit nuclear weapons. to all these questions very carefully, i'm sure that belarus will only be allowed to guard the perimeter. that's how it is on the tower. yes, there are dogs there, there are machine guns, but they won't be allowed closer. they are still playing diplomatically, as if they moved the weapon, but the belarusians have nothing to do with it physically, and there is some history . they are trying to warn in the event that the belarusians handed over the weapon, they take care of it there , and if it is necessary to take it away, and at some point belarus says, well, we give it to me now

it’s different . everything is bye cocoa. goodbye, that is, the russians foresee this story , that’s why they are there, we protect it when the need arises. expert sbu employees 4th - 15th years we discussed what i found most interesting and now we will talk even more interestingly about diplomacy about international relations oleksandr kraev expert of the ukrainian foreign policy council prizma if i see him i will be absolutely satisfied oleksandr that you found time for us in saturday look and i will read to you two small excerpts, but what does russia want: a refusal to resist russian aggression, that is, ukraine should lay down its arms, a refusal to supply western

weapons, we should refuse to join the nato and the european union recognition of crimea, donbass, and now other territories as russian, now what i want ukraine means to immediately withdraw all russian troops from the sovereign territory, that is, within the framework of the 91st year, recognition of the fact that the ussr has finally disintegrated, the extradition of war criminals, the authors of the war, the reduction of offensive weapons, the consolidation of the demeterized zone on the territory of the russian federation. this is absolutely incompatible from my point of view. how can you find a subject for and perhaps some negotiations, maybe even with intermediaries? i am not explaining to you, but to the audience that mediators are such a style of mediators when they do not touch each other, even with their eyes, the two sides, that is, at first, well, conditionally, this was always done in switzerland, the swiss goes to the ukrainians, listens to what the ukrainians say, then goes to

the russians and tells what the ukrainians said, the russians tell him what they think about it and express their opinions he goes to the ukrainians and explained and it goes on there for hours and hours or weeks or days, how is it possible in principle well, not what to synchronize, but somehow to start some not what works. and some kind of groping for the situation. let's say, mr. oleksandr, for example, what you mentioned is also called shuttle diplomacy. this, by the way, is what today's birthday boy , henrikesinger, who was most active at the time, was the most active in today 's birthday. resolved the conflict , which also seemed to have no points of contact, this is the israeli-egyptian conflict at that time, because in fact the requests there were also completely contradictory, well, let's start with the fact that

egypt, like all arab countries, believed that israel does not exist, israelis and jews should not be in the middle east, that is, it is a priori to negotiate with someone whom you do not see as an entity politically. well, there is no point, but what can be done at such a moment, first of all , everything will be based on the results of what is happening on the battlefield, that is, in fact, unfortunately, we are returning to that stage of diplomacy where how many victories can we achieve, how many can we hold, free our territories from this well, and you will be in accordance with our negotiations, israel in due time was able to liberate and defend all its territories israel was able to maintain control over key points for itself and therefore these key points remained with it this is the first second important point if most positions are not compatible we simply do not talk about them we have to find those points that we can talk about, that is conditionally to think outside the framework of previously expressed positions and start negotiations from this, but

i will repeat, even such negotiations, even the most soft ones, involving shuttle diplomacy and so on, we can only start when it becomes obvious that a draw is on the battlefield the benefit is leaning towards schalke, unfortunately. until now, everything is centered on military actions. now i know for sure. thank god i am not on social networks, otherwise it would not have arrived. i think it will arrive, but i have been busy for the last week. i wonder what someone is saying somewhere. and i find some rational seeds from "appeared at the event and among the friends of ukraine, not among the doubters , those who doubt what this thesis is to which i am mentally starting. well, don't adapt, adapt, don't join, and somehow also

grope, i'll take this word that it's better not to be a member of nato - it's just about a few years ago about israel and that's all about having special relations such as those that israel has with the united states that have taiwan with the united states that have japan with the united states south korea why did they talk about it because the introduction to nato disarmament of ukraine, here i imagine an attack on ukraine nato is starting talks in brussels, negotiations back and forth and it is necessary, it is not necessary, let's consult with washington, and someone is against, and the system, what is needed is unanimity, and so on. when we talk about israel, which are you talking about they mentioned, they don't ask. they have specific relations with the usa, but if necessary, they wanted to spit on the usa and do their own thing, and when i imagine a possible future

, i say, oh, i don't like something too much, because russia will advance, we will scratch the back of our heads to consult with everyone here, it will come out of the corner, orban will come out, who is the next crazy no-no and i think it's wrong and if we have a special relationship like israel we say ok thank you for the weapons thank you for the money thank you for everything but we fight back at the border and we shoot as we we want an interesting story, what do you say about it, yes, in fact, the story is interesting, and in fact, if we go down this path, there will now be an interesting twist in the plot, one does not cancel the other , in fact, we have the example of sweden, which is currently not a member of nato, because, as you correctly said, all kinds of orbans appeared, and all the russians who say that sweden is not ready to be a member, we have to limit its access potential. but despite this, when sweden and finland announced their desire

to join nato, you remember how russia immediately began to accumulate strength when conversations began about the storming of the island of bornholm, about missile control over the baltic sea, about encircling, let's say, sweden in finland from the arctic ocean, that is , in fact, the russians decided to intimidate two countries from joining the north atlantic alliance, but what did britain do at that moment britain and the states unilaterally provided both states with so-called intermediate guarantees, that is, guarantees equal to five hundredths of the washington treaty before the two states enter into nato, i.e., the kind of guarantees you are talking about. they do not cancel our desire to join nato, and it is absolutely true that while there in brussels, they will decide that we should be allowed to join, we should leave , we must now aim to receive such guarantees, that is, the swedish scenario. sweden is now protected by the nuclear umbrella of the us nuclear the umbrella of britain. yes, it is not yet in nato, but in principle it does not need it now for its basic security needs, that is

, such an intermediate scenario, on the one hand, it will satisfy those who want security here and now, on the other hand, it will satisfy transatlantic integrators because we are moving towards nato, i am moving as there is no such thing, but we are moving and for ukraine, just such a scenario will be more or less the best. that is, it is neither israel nor taiwan. it is necessary to persuade putin that it is beneficial for putin for ukraine to become a member of nato because it will deter ukraine itself if ukraine wants to attack russia, such logic has passed for many years and ukraine has become strong, strong, er, economically strong in the first they have their turn, their military industry , and so on. and they say, here we are, and we still remember the attack of 22nd, we will take revenge now, and then nato will grab our hands, and then and

now the horse is still hinting that he can call putin, and they in cloudy relations and say, dude, if they are not in nato , they will attack you, and you mean you have already lost one war, so you want them to come then just take theirs and now they have reached moscow so come on, come on, stand up for that for ukraine to join nato, then we are for it we will keep our hands and feet and they will not be able to take revenge. this logic means that mr. kissinger has a logic here, unfortunately, the logic is because well , let's hear what the nato members say in general , not even just there orba nerdogan what the southern european nato members say, they say about that that everything possible should be done so that the conflict does not happen again, that is, the invasion of the russian federation does not just happen again, as the baltics say about it, as the balts and americans say about it, as we say

, and so that, in principle, it does not happen again at all no conflict, i.e. peace at any price , and unfortunately such a view has its support, but there are many, but knowing some engineer conducts diplomatic affairs and knowing in general how broadly many issues can be interpreted, this can be a bluff, that is, relatively speaking, we are in parallel with the statements of the engineer who, fortunately, cannot now represent anyone in parallel with these statements, the american ingress adopts a resolution in which the vision of the victory of ukraine is completely different. this vision is the same as ours . that is, even these are not even the points that we russia has just been exposed, it's much bigger and better, it's the borders of 1991, it's justice, that is, the conviction of all war criminals and political ones - it's reparation from russia and ukraine's membership in nato, that is, ok, i understood one more question

, i just have a lot of them, i can't have time, oleksandr, but you yourself said about southern europe, and why? why southern europe? we know today that greece is already starting to get in the way there . so that we can always see that the italians were very careful at some point, the spaniards were just silent, i won't say what they were. they are careful, but they are so to speak, my house is on the edge of europe, and here i have everything here, everything is fine here, but the only thing is that there are no problem regions in the north of europe, and in the south, well, with this cyprus , it simply exists by itself. turks, greece, and they know everything about this turks and greeks and the entire mediterranean, but they cannot decide for themselves there, and here they advise us to end the war on any terms , why not the swedes and the italians, not the finns, but these

not all are not athens i would even say why look, if we are talking about the roosters for six months, we will add a few more beams for them to understand the russian threat. for them, in general , the understanding of the threat of direct military confrontation is very, very painful. they are clearly aware that, in principle, their security, their permanence and stability of these systems depends on whether they can to defend oneself from a potential threat and at the same time what are the problems in southern europe, migrants , the economic crisis and, as a result, economic stagnation, that is a senseless aspect for southern europe that is simply absent, which is now a military threat to southern europe, even the cyprus problem you mentioned. well, this is a completely frozen conflict, which is why these countries, which are very opaque in europe

, are called porto itely gries & spain, they basically have completely different priorities , they understand that more active aid to ukraine, poland, the baltics in principle, any redistribution of funds to other issues causes other regions that they themselves do not receive and they themselves put themselves at risk of certain crisis phenomena oleksandr wait wait very important moment and this is not a paraphrase of the word pigs or is it bullying and the rest of europe calls them pigs over mediterranean europe because pixies are pigs it is bullying them because in fact this is how europeans understand that these countries want material benefits and that they are ready to take any steps in order not to europe and nato did not

spend money on anyone else, here i will immediately defend them a little . well, let's remember that the spanish were one of the first to announce that the leopards would come to train thousands of ukrainian soldiers. george meloni , the prime minister of italy, is half as good. organized the last european tour for zelensky and how much now the italians have provided us with weapons, the portuguese and the greeks are humanitarian aid, but but but their long-term prospects indicate that they would not like the european nato money to be redistributed elsewhere, that is , if the tsars of the russian tsars of the emperors dreams of capturing the bosphorus and the dardanelles, if it succeeded , then the mediterranean countries would understand that the enemy is nearby. apostle, since they did not capture the bezfordanelles, it means that the enemy is somewhere in ukraine, it doesn’t matter. athens felt it on

but the volunteers, volunteers, swedish, norwegian, fought from athens in the winter war against russia, the russian soviet union , etc. ukrainians understand it all for finished thank you very much oleksandr kraev expert of the council of foreign policy of ukraine ukrainian prism is called and we will move on to our old acquaintance igor thank you igor eisenberg, professor of the university of yuri, who i hope now will appear as soon as he appears immediately, we will start talking with them immediately mr. mr. igor appeared professor of good health thank you for taking the time for us congratulations mr. mykola greetings to all the viewers espresso mr. igor we will start with some content from me that's how they taught at the bbc

when i worked there a long time ago in the russian service, that you have to throw bridges. i even remember that he was nixon in kyiv, i waved i was 12 years old with a pen when he arrived and drove along volodymyrska street to look at the sophia cathedral . it is easy for him to give an interview how easy it is for him to be published in which of the newspapers how much he is listened to i.e. this is really the factor is such is it already such a figure of the past to some sincerely

the nobel laureate well done there detente brezhnev nixon the war in vietnam er israel means the arabs, well, such a person is important but yesterday what do you say new and the first and the second because of course it is easy for him to print from any newspaper er add an interview if he wants to give it, i have such a desire. well, he already expresses the opinion of certain circles , i would say that he was also a diplomat and a republican politician. to speak of classic republican circles, which may be in the same the republican party today is not uh, it is not very popular, but nevertheless he is uh, his opinion is shared by certain people, so to speak, with classical republican politics, that is,

it is worth listening to him because he expresses not only what he thinks, he himself expresses such a collective opinion, although such a group of people in the republican party, which today is in the minority, so let's talk . igor, let's talk a little. experts and something, well, if there was a hint that he would be able to influence putin so that putin not only agreed, but also allowed ukraine to join nato, because it is nato that can prevent the ukrainians from retaliating in the future, well, that is, even if suddenly the ukrainians scratch the back of their heads and say oh, what is she we don't like what happened in the 22nd year, we went to moscow, and then nato comes out just around the corner and grabs

the hands of the ukrainians and says no-no-no . to shove, well, if only i were like that to myself imagine the picture. well, as far as you can imagine. well, imagine such an option and such influence of the messenger and the agreement of russia and ukraine are already in nato because of what russia says. let's join nato quickly, because then it will definitely be on us. i think that when the messenger is on putin, well, he will be zero in any case, and kissinger's influence on the fact that ukraine will sooner or later be accepted into nato and the influence of those, let's say , circles whose opinion he expresses and or who share his opinion, let's say so, can play a role in so that ukraine would accept

nato, well, the point is, what about the influence of the oxygen agent on putin? well, henrikanger probably can remember what influence he had on brezhnev when he was establishing peace in vietnam, when he ended the vietnam war, it still ended with the fact that, well, he is such a war. stopped uh, but uh, two years after he stopped it, it just resumed, north vietnam captured vietnam and everything and uh, that is , you already negotiated not only with north vietnam, i negotiated with the soviet leaders, so what will happen after all this about how the american troops will leave there, well, it came from this that it is so simple, so to speak, so that he can remember it, but what he expresses regarding ukraine's accession

to nato, on the one hand, he expresses the opinion of certain circles in american politics, on the other hand, certain american politicians can listen to his opinion that ukraine should be accepted into nato and this is good, i think this is very, very good because it is necessary to influence the leadership of the united states and the leadership of the head of the united states western european members of nato in order to promote this idea. ukraine must be in the direction, because otherwise we will not be in europe until ukraine is in nato, mr. professor, a very interesting question . today i listened to a so-called liberal , so to speak, liberal russian channel . nina khrushchev's grandson, granddaughter nikita khrushcheva also said such things . she

thought, she did not say . she did not say. more pro-ukrainian than the democrats, that is, led by biden, what do they need to criticize for something - look for reasons for criticizing biden, and this criticism , among other things, can say that you give little money to ukraine, you can make sure that they use it correctly, so that you don’t give more weapons, you give ukraine, you can make sure that they go to you yes, yes, so that the weapons were then and where they are needed. but we need more weapons, seized money on the ground, russian money, and state and oligarchic money on the ground of the united states . we need to create a mechanism to take it away and

to give to ukraine, that is, since the election campaign is about to begin, both sides will accordingly look for flaws, and she says, i do not rule out that they will defeat the minority that says let's not give weapons to ukraine, or limit them, or say, yes, we give too much, but it will surpass it like this the part that will say no, you had something, you are helping ukraine, we need more, because russia is the enemy, let's do it more intensively, you can imagine this, i can make it so that they will criticize the republicans for everything he does, or he does everything wrong, but no on food, in this case, i appeal to those circles of the republican party that are not in the u.s. are not the most influential today, so if you are talking parties , those who support donald trump are not nearly as influential . i mean among ordinary

republicans and because trump's dollar you are absolutely opposed to aid to ukraine , so you are his supporters, they are simply not interested in it, or you are not for them in principle or without a person at all regarding the elections , you understand, and i do not want to disappoint the ukrainians viewers, well, on the topic of ukraine in the american elections, it will not be a priority, any foreign policy topic, anything that is done, the resident will not be in the first place of the election campaign, because the economy is always in the first place about the american election campaigns, that is, people's sense of their own economic life and moreover , since america is a very divided political country, there are red states of the republican ash, democratic states in these states , even today it is possible to say where

the democratic candidate will win the republican candidate, but these victories will not be enough to become president and the fate of the elections will be decided by 6 states , you can call your so-called states , but now it is impossible to say how the elections ended, let's say in the 16th year in all these six states - this is reasonable george wisconsin missionary pennsylvania how many i named five well, yes, yes, what else is it, since the 16th year , he has won in all these states, and in the 20th year, leave these states, bachin won, and in the 24th year, the same the fate of the elections will be decided in these states and the main topic of the election campaign will be what is being done in the economy

. how do people feel about their own economic life. well, as far as i understand. ihor. excuse me. as far as i understand, the economy is moving well. unemployment is not bad. everything is not bad, but it is bad that the word default is increasingly pronounced in america. and outside of america. where are the negotiations between the president's congresses now and what is he hoping for? there is some hope that there will be very little information about this. the latest information is from what the president said yesterday. weekend to whom david journalists. he said that he looks at it with optimism . and he says that i expect that tonight, uh, there will be some news. there are negotiations between the representatives of the president and then the representatives

of the union to teach the representatives, that is, tonight. it was yesterday, but none there was no news. that means that for now we are there, where we were before that. well, they will bypass the negotiations. there are and are representatives of the budget office of the white house and the ministry of finance. there are representatives of the working group. of the speaker of makartka, and there are relevant committees in the house of representatives, it has been agreed that this is so far . unfortunately, there is no specific information. unfortunately, it is a question. please excuse me, the last question is literally one and a half minutes. if you remove the default factor, then in principle, the american economy . as far as i understand, the majority of americans are satisfied with the state of affairs. if there is any growth

, it may not be small, but gasoline has already become normal at a normal price, not like two years ago and so that is, there is no crisis of some crazy people, on the one hand, the economy is growing, the gdp is growing, the unemployment rate is the lowest in 54 years, what annoys people is the inflation of consumer goods prices , first of all, for food products, which have really grown very much. well, i am the usual reason for this. that because the food crisis in the world is caused by a war unleashed by putin, this is absolutely, absolutely clear. i don't know if it is clear to all people, at least the president tries to explain it every time. but in principle, the economy is in a growing state, that is, the number

of jobs that were created during the period of biden's stay in the white house, it is a record for any president, such a number of new jobs have never been created in the history of america. and still, one more small question. and this question is literally one or two seconds. and there are some counter- trump's arguments are strong, like literally two, two or three theses. please tell me that he can defeat biden under the conditions that you say . everything is more or less normal. he was the president, there would be no inflation, that's his, that's his, for one of his slogans , yes, yes, as he says that if he were the president , there would be no putin's aggression against ukraine, well, accordingly, prices would not rise, or does it explain again how would he. if he had done it. thank you very much and play zinberg , a professor of new york university , was in touch with us. thank you in mind. and now