[000:00:00;00] it was a terrible day for the pro-russian non-humans. one by one, two houses were destroyed, and the ukrainian people were nazis here. yes, we are all nationalists here. did the residents resist? the residents came here, stopped them and sent them back and became heroes. the novel was part of the ukraine project in the documentary series de-occupation, which is on saturdays at 11:00 a.m. 10 on espresso we continue our broadcast that mykola veresen vitaly portnikov and we have igor samami volos, director of the center for middle eastern studies on the line, congratulations mr. igor , will we see or not we will see mr. igor

we hope let's talk about yes let's talk first of all turkey spoke spoke now we can talk about the fact no well actually it's interesting i for example my first question would be if someone is going somewhere because first they said putin will come and zelensky will come then something won't be there putin won't be there well, zelensky will be, i think it is obvious, and there is something to talk about, at least by the turkish president of ukraine , this is an important point but putin, uh, well , it is interesting that they write in turkish newspapers that putin first seemed to agree, then seemed to disagree and it is absolutely impossible to understand the further steps of establishing or maintaining normal relations that exist between russia and turkey. as for me , it may be quite an interesting moment. i just don’t want to leave at all after the order. and this question is how much it affects, because there are a lot of rumors

and gossip. south africa, china and india and turkey are just constantly talking about the fact that putin goes, then he doesn't go, he goes, he doesn't go, and is he so, so, so afraid, although is this the wrong word ? i think i have the impression that he is a coward because if we take all the acute moments in his political life with the excuse that he is a foreigner and he is gone for 3-4 days and in kursk and in dubrovka this center and yes yes and this is the story with the school and and he's always gone and now he's gone wise squeak oh no, he doesn't have it today that situation, well, the situation is not like that, but it's a habit , so here's a station when a person with such a mentality becomes the head of the state and it's simple and we continue to think that he is somehow so

cunning he is simply afraid of too many things and thanks be to god i liked mine today or washington pochemu osen john what’s new biden’s fun to cross putin’s red lines to look at himself yes yes yes and this is a new such a new new situation with the entertainment of the us president who has finally understood that putin is a coward and all his red the lines are nothing, no, absolutely not suitable, but for the second time they promise me that igor will be the one to ride. if we are talking about the future, it is unlikely that any changes will take place, that is, and turkey will pursue a policy similar to the one it pursued before, it seems to me that

zelensky's conversation with serdoğan during his meeting will be very important. i hope that our president will be able to to come to the inauguration of the eu in order to confirm at least all the commitments and all the agreements that existed in the eu for the previous period. well, it is also important for us that turkey confirms and , of course, declares by voice that they support ukraine's accession to nato as far as they will be ready in general. what do you think? they should start with sweden in general. well, they should start with sweden . sweden has recently announced that it has fully fulfilled all its promises, that is, the entire agreement it concluded with turkey was adopted there , which condemns participation

terrorist organizations, that is, from sweden's point of view, they fulfilled all their obligations. well , obviously, now the question is: and how do the turks interpret well, in my opinion, it is better to interpret it as a positive side because what should i do, excuse me, make certain uh, such harsh statements and resisting the entry into sweden, well, obviously, this is not the best way to start the next term of office, mr. igor , it may be a very strange question for many, but the erdogan channel will be completed, there has already been a lot of talk about what to put a parallel channel with the bosphorus and if you protect yourself from all international treaties and everything is fine and the turks will get out of the situation here, there will be two channels, one of which is subject to interpolation treaties, and the other is

turkish, he himself decides where and whom to let who should not be let in, how likely is the completion of this canal, well, obviously, because ertuğan, at least during the election campaign , talked about this canal, said that the canal would be completed. as far as i know, the situation with this canal is not so obvious, that is, there is a statement of former turkish generals about this canal and they at least well, the discussion is quite big in the turkish expert environment, and the turks basically promise that this channel will be in this channel will follow the same rules as in the bosphorus, but that's what the people here say turkey is really not obliged to do this. and one more question: what are they not satisfied with, what are they satisfied with during the elections, we already know now that on the one hand the elections were more

, well, so, well, the voting day itself, let's say fair , but still there are observations of observers, so what touched upon the observations of the observers regarding the elections of the president of the republic of turkey , mostly about the paragraphs of the official propaganda, the official propaganda was too much. well, in principle, freedom of the press exists and what it is like there. well, we know that there were many problems today. what is the turkish press? there was once such an option when, for example,

in in india, all newspapers were free, but television was not very free, but in india not everyone could read, but everyone could watch tv , and how could such an option exist in india , and in turkey, what about the press, there is a free press in turkey, there was more of course you can to say that one of the key factors of a free press or a competitive press is a whole conglomeration of newspapers that were connected under the fist of gülen and were closed, they were the most prominent critics of erdoğan. social networks but mainly television also broadcasts the state position, the position of the ruling party , let's say. and tell me in principle. so, you know, why yordahan didn't go to

sami, only that he was the only one of all the leaders of european countries invited there i know, i can't say why we didn't go. he wants to be seen . he is preparing for the inauguration. i think that this may be the only obvious answer . it's difficult, it's not a problem for the turks, everyone knows that ortogan has poor health and health problems, but that doesn't bother him. i think that it can be for one's health, well, what about faith, and such a question and what and what will we see in turkey in 5 years, that's the end of the ordigan era. for some reason, it seems to me what will he end up with? well, in the sense

that he will be completely boring. i'm not talking about revolutions and anything like that. but he'll just get bored . you know, 25 years in power. that's what turkey will be like in 5 years, and you know that's a good question for him. there is no such clear, understandable answer, i definitely can’t imagine what the economy will be like, because the economy there is really difficult, ertogan’s napoleonic plans to increase production, his financial policy ah, the increase in the exchange rate of the dollar against the lira, and, accordingly, inflation is huge, but it is also possible to fix a certain increase in production. that is, it is so obvious from somewhere, the cheapening of the labor force due to the cheapness of

turkish goods is also observed, and regarding the political future it seems to me that the republic of turkey has reached a certain limit, that is, in order to move into the rank of innovative economies, that is, the economy of already developed countries, and it is necessary to make a proper, not economic, but a social leap , that is, society must change, for now, well there are no such obvious signals that society can radically change. instead, we see a fairly conservative society that is winning so far and we see a position that is made up of very different groups from left to right nationalists uh and now we see a certain renaissance

of nationalism in turkey but and a great request for liberal forces and ot, for example, a separate mama hawthorn, the mayor of istanbul, he is although he is a member of the dhp, that is, the republican party of the people's republican party, he represents in the eyes of many educated turks the urban such a population, such a person who could create such a liberal party, that is, there is a huge demand for updating a-a. i think that the position of the chp will obviously survive serious crises, but practically all of them, but it 's not me. the party and the partisans of justice, development, because they still do not have a clearly defined successor, there are not so many brilliant politicians, relatively speaking, publicists who are ready

to replace the partisans, and they also reached a certain ceiling of their yes, that is, the act of the partisans has exhausted its order daytime and er or she will change, or she is also waiting for a split, a breakup into more well, let's say islamic groups and less slavic groups, that is, in this case, and the political future of turkey in 5 years, it is less obvious, well, in fact, how economically, in fact, it is possible to exist at all , this is already caused by these parties this is also a good question to exist, but the party is forced without argan, you know, in the end, they cannot, cannot exist, a man founded such a movement, his predecessor in this plane, rbc, proved incapable of such a mass, as he said

, islamic moderate year. and so is the program they definitely called themselves they deliberately refused islamism as an ideology, especially at the beginning, and called themselves conservative democrats, and you can imagine that the first uh-uh, the first decade or so, it is better to say until 2007, ertugan , there are a lot of different eh around us from the political forces that wanted change, and it was such a nationwide political movement, and orthogan led it, and later, of course, they already began to shift to the right corner of the political spectrum, where actually there is more, well, islamic more islamic, less, but not less liberal, or there is even a right of conservative

, and that is why it is obvious that this party is also waiting for changes, and it is obvious that the part that wants further islamization will stand out . frankly, in fact, almost all political forces, except for the jgp, and they arose already on the ruins of the great national movement led by erdogan in the zero years , now let's take a couple of minutes . - israel, turkey, syria turkey, azerbaijan, turkey, south caucasus, turkey, iran, what will happen here? well, speaking of things, let's start with the simple

ones, for sure, with turkey, azerbaijan, everything is clear here , the shushan declaration is clear and understandable , the alliance obligations are clear and there are no problems, turkey could do something i think that turkey will fully support azerbaijan. it is counting on a peace agreement between azerbaijan and armenia to create a transport corridor e-e through the south caucasus and further to central asia. i think this is a key task that will help to strengthen the position of turkey in central asia, including the economic ones, and it is the same if we are talking about the south caucasus , it is obviously worth mentioning armenia . in order to get some certain

perspectives from the other side, this agreement is of course painful for the armenians because it is the constitution of the defeat and loss of karabakh, that's why the situation here remains so uncertain although in words, the parties have already declared that they recognize the sovereignty of one and turkey, obviously, here it will act as one of the possible guarantors of armenia, that is, in order to possibly unblock the transport routes , and it is advantageous for turkey, because a- and eastern turkey, which is adjacent to armenia , is now facing such a blind transport corner, and thanks to this, in principle, it is possible to effectively develop these regions in relation to

syria. one year, erdoğan will continue to try to negotiate with the russians and the iranians about creating a security zone in the north of syria , and then gradually relocate the syrian population there, build them houses, and such a classic, i would say, the ottoman policy of resettling peoples and creating loyal er, to push the loyal arabs on their border from the border of the kurds, er, accordingly, er , negotiations with the russians, as you understand, er, have always been difficult for the turks, and the russians constantly hint that the turks have negotiate directly with bashar asid and bashar assat. as far as i understand, he refused the turks to negotiate until the turks leave the territory, and it is clear that ertuğan is not

ready for this. so, there is still such a geopolitical impasse, and i do not see any way out yet. to other positions, well, the position of ertagan, europe. obviously, this is also a very interesting thing. and a lot will depend on how the nato summit will be held. okay, thank you. thank you very much . now i'm thinking to the balkans to the balkans it's time to the balkans we're going to the balkans we were just talking about this about the western balkans now we have andrii krystal sociologist expert of the analytical center for balkan studies good health mr. andrii if you show up yes it will be great and you appeared and it's great, so let's move on to this conflict between kosovo and serbia, this is a rather unexpected story, because now

, by and large, it's not surprising that the west is more on the side of serbia than on the side of kosovo. how could this even happen? well, this situation has quite long history i think that we should not ignore everything that has been happening in inter-kosovo serbia for the last at least three years when we observe these are the twists and turns of the wave of escalation , however, when one side tries to make some kind of change in the existing status quo and the other side is very actively protesting against it all changes are taking their toll, here are these latest changes , so since 2021, when kosovo first elected a different government from the previous ones, the party in this file came to power, headed by an albino kurti, who is currently the prime minister of kosovo, and then for the first time there have been such tectonic changes in the relations between kosovar serbia, which are obviously very complicated from the geopolitical situation, but

actually albert albinkurti was one of the first prime ministers of kosovo who decided to slightly change the existing status quo after the declaration cost independence in 2008 , a number of agreements mishkosov served on how they will regulate relations between themselves avoiding, as for serbia, recognition and glukosov, fighting for this recognition, in 2013 they signed the brussels agreement on the normalization of these relations and leaving is not going anywhere in particular. but in 2021, as i said, a new government came to kosovo and it began to take steps to equalize the position, so the inter-kosovo serbia does not understand the viewers of our program. there are a number of such

, that is, for example, residents of serbia who visit have visited kosovo before, they could play with serbian numbers on cars with serbian numbers, girls on the territory of kosovo residents who wanted to enter serbia, they encountered such a kind of bureaucratic humiliation, and at the border they needed temporary license plates, pay money for it, paste these paper license plates, take off their metal ones from cars and drive. that’s the only way in the heart, the same was the case in other areas, for example, education documents of residents of serbia who graduated were not recognized universities in serbia could study in kosovo, on the contrary, it did not happen like that , the viewer may also have a question , why should serbian residents study in kosovo, but in serbia there is a region of several municipalities with mainly in the population of ban, so they are very actively communicating and moving between these regions. and in the 21st

year, albinenburti said that ok, we will do the same if serbs want to enter us, they need to issue paper numbers themselves if they do not recognize our documents , we will not recognize them. and these changes happened gradually. the government of kosovo tried to follow the conventions that existed, and this always caused an active protest on the part of the serbian population that still lives in in the north of kosovo and is about 10% of the population of this partially recognized republic of bliks, this is exactly what this equalization was about, and the last conflict, the latest twists of violence , we can already observe for two years, they actually relate to these such uh-uh, it would seem very practical and everyday things, that is first of all, everything started from the topic of mutual recognition of car numbers, and later the government of kosovo took another step and said that residents of the northern

municipalities, that is, serbs living in the north of kosovo, should now register their cars according to the legislation of kosovo and not of serbia, so because it was such a kind of gray zone until now in the north of kosovo, where a lot of local serbs still had cars with serbian plates, used the serbian health care system, and the government of kosovo tried to solve this situation. this is clear at the moment, but as far as i understand, the latest aggravation happened due to the fact that the new mayors simply cannot get into the workplace , but these new mayors were elected by three and a half, as far as i remember by percentage the population, that is, more than 90% of the population simply did not come to the elections and do not recognize these elections, and accordingly, how to get out of this situation

when the majority of the population in all regions is serbian, but the state is called non-serbs, what should be done, why should these elections be held , this is an extraordinary election, and it concerns again on this topic with car numbers , that is, in december of this year, when the law was supposed to come into force that all serbs should re-register their cars in the kosovar manner as part of another protest by serbs who were part of the institutions of kosovo, worked in the kosovo tradition in the serbian kosovo police in the north, in the courts, in local councils elected in accordance with kosovo legislation, including in the parliament of kosovo, they all submitted their mandates as part of a protest and left these institutions, and thus a situation arose when in the north, there was no local government, there was no police, and uh, kosovo, according to its law, held special

elections there, these elections were postponed several times , they were originally supposed to take place in december later they were still postponed to april, they took place, but the serbian population of kosovo said that they would not take part in these elections and booed, that is, in the regions where the majority of the population lives, not all of them, but the majority, the vast majority, no one came to the elections, so what happened you say 3.5% of the turnout, the candidates who were elected in those e-e municipalities with a predominantly serbian population, they are albanians and voted in albanian, who live in several villages with a predominantly ban population in the north, and they tried to the elections were held, well, according to the law, there is no upper limit for the turnout, but if you look at this situation , it turns out that the albanians elected by three percent in the north of kosovo will govern the municipalities in which the majority

of the population lives, that is, a boycott, if you look at the article, this situation was successful , but such a difficult political situation developed, and so last week, these albanian mayors tried to get into the buildings of the municipalities and the police of kosovo, and in this they supported the reason that in some municipalities they they entered by force, which led to a confrontation with the local serbian population and the kosovo police , after that, the international contingent of e-keyfor intervened between the standing and e-representatives of this contingent . in fact, on the footage that is currently being broadcast, the fact is that you have a situation, what to do, because there is no one to do , but someone understands how to get out of this situation , how to help this situation, because what you

say and what i read there from time to time tells me that this is hopeless, it's about time, in 50 years , something may change, but not today and not tomorrow. well, without exit situations, there are also previous times when you became aggravated. it was possible for the parties to reach a certain compromise, and in my opinion, subjectively , these compromises are usually, they were, they brought a better result in the situation than what was before the parties tell the authorities of kosovo, for example, what you mentioned. at first, the western partners, in this situation, ended up on the side of serbia, well, that’s it, they tell the authorities of kosovo that it was not necessary to enter this institution by force . if you think about it now, it's okay. well, it is possible to hold new

elections in the north, how to do it according to the law, services, what is the mechanism for this at all, in order to hold elections, they cannot be recognized as illegitimate because they took little people's participation because there is no lower threshold, there are two possible mechanisms, the first is that the elected albanian mayors, who were elected by these three and a half percent of the people, make up their mandates as their serbian predecessors did as a result of the boycott, and then, according to the law, it is necessary to hold again municipal elections , but the question is whether the serbs will participate in these new municipal elections , if they are preparing for the previous elections , which took place only in april, why their position was unlikely to change, so i am one more an option about what and to which event the e-e will also push. in my opinion, the parties are that all elections and re-elections can be held if the local voters e-e make

a statement that the e-e should be held before the elections, i.e. something on such as how to correctly collect signatures of no confidence in local authorities is allowed a legal mechanism within which it is already possible to hold legal elections without violating the rule of law journalist e balkan inside we contacted the prime minister of kosovo literally this evening about what he thinks about these variants of chi he is ready to implement them because currently the government of kosovo has taken such a tough position, they say, because this is the position towards everyone , yes, regarding serbia, they are accused of escalating the situation about what, exactly, serbs from serbia were inspired by these, these violent protests, the west is accused of that that the west openly interferes in the internal affairs of kosovo and tells them what to do and how and that they twist their legislation in such a way in order to reach