[000:00:00;00] the army and the rest will be decided by the international community as a guarantee of the security of ukraine. we thank you, dear andriy andriyovich, for this extremely interesting and informative conversation . i want to remind our tv viewers that andriy pyankovsky, a famous political scientist who is in washington, worked for them on espresso our program has run out, stay tuned to tv channels with the press . my colleagues will inform you about all the most important events, they will involve the most informed experts, watch out for yourself and

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to look into the week ahead in order to be at least ready for what you can wait, so for some of you, this is an unusual time for our program to be broadcast, we have changed this time since last monday, and this is approximately how we will always be broadcast now, so everyone who watches the world during the war, who loves the world during the war, and we we love you all too, please remember that now we go on the air from approximately 1:00 p.m. well, maybe until 1:10 p.m., depending on how it will be, well, follow the broadcast in one word . well, nothing special today . they will come to visit me with which professional guests with which i will professionally talk about what i would like to talk about, the questions that arose during the past week and may arise during the week that is ahead of us . well, as always, all of you who watch us on youtube, please remember us, the broadcast

goes immediately on on two channels general espresso and on the channel i am about youtube on the channel that was created specifically for the sweet program during the war, so on this channel we ask you to answer questions every week and this time is no exception today's question it sounds like russia should stand trial for its crimes, three options for answers, also nothing surprising immediately after the end of the war and your option well, it is obvious why i asked you this question, of course, because of what the rashists did on the sixth of last week, the blowing up of the hopka dam, the dam at the kakhovsky hydroelectric power station and in if you add to that all the other crimes that the er-e racists have er-e committed during this invasion of ukraine that began on february 24 of last year, here this

question is precisely and urgent when it should stand before the court for their crimes, and now i want to tell you that now we are being watched on a special youtube channel , which was created to even answer for their crimes , 83% of viewers believe that after the war, 14% of viewers and 3% of viewers have their own opinion, but their you can read the opinion in the comments or at the end when the youtube program publishes and you can watch everything. well, so do i. thanks to all those who joined us on the air of the espresso tv channel, at least where it was not turned off from the networks. thank you too well, what if our guest already has this question for my charming host and tells me that i can start today's broadcast

. so, sylvester nosenko, an analyst at the economic recovery center, and everyone from ukraine, sylvester . i congratulate you. i invited you only because of the fact that you are the last, for the last week i read your uh, your facebook, your telegram, and you wrote a lot about the un, specifically about the un, i really want to talk to you because you are very interesting things were voiced there, and many interesting things will probably be voiced today too , because the un, you know, now everyone is listening, obviously, after such a kind of reaction . to the new kakhovka, let's give it to sylvester first. i will invite ivan and our viewers to listen to what happens after, it seems a day after or maybe on the second day after a-and the same after the blowing up

of the kakhovka dam, said the general secretary united nations antonio guterreich let's listen salon tdalife united nations there is no access to independent information about the circumstances that led to the destruction of the kakhovka hydroelectric dam, but one thing is clear. this is another devastating consequence of the russian invasion of ukraine, today's tragedy is another example of a terrible price wars for people the floodgates of suffering have been overflowing for over a year now attacks on civilians and critical civilian infrastructure must stop we must act to to ensure responsibility and respect for international humanitarian law above all else. i call for a just peace in accordance with the united nations charter of international law and the un general assembly resolution, that is, these seem to be

standard un comments. well , before i ask you a question, let 's listen quote by prime minister-kystoni who and kallas terrorist state russia has now turned water into a weapon the destruction of the kakhov dam is a war crime that affects countless civilians and leads to ecocide and mass destruction we must stop this cycle of aggression by helping ukraine to win and ensuring full responsibility of russia well mr. sylvester look back from the second quote ms. kalla will say that we must help ukraine respond respond in such cases help more precisely such organizations as er un but in the first quote, well, we didn't hear about this help, plus look immediately after what was left ukraine managed to

do it before russia called an emergency meeting of the united nations, but in my opinion , in my view , we seem to have lost at this meeting, that is, we really needed to speak. albania performed very well. albania really condemned the rest of the countries. they condemned russia, but they did not condemn what russia did to the kakhovsky dam, and plus 50% of those who spoke, especially from african countries. they said, well, this is scary , this is scary. said so my question to you is the emergency meeting of the un security council on the undermining of the kakhovka hydroelectric plant. please tell me what kind of result it was for ukraine. thank you mr. yury for the question. when answering it, i would not look through the prism of the classic dichotomy that we love. betrayal . victory.

of our viewers, an analogy with national criminal law, if any crime happens and we are even its witnesses and we know exactly what happened, this still does not cancel the need to hold a court session and the decision of the court to announce who is guilty, the same happens with international crimes, that is, in order for this not to happen, the international community will always try to conduct everything as objectively as possible, and well, no matter what, they were not present there at that moment in order to find out all the circumstances, so for it will be much better for us if the international court of justice or the international criminal court will conduct an investigation and establish the culprits, and based on the results of this, they will say that russia is guilty and that it must compensate ukraine for the damage, of course there estonia's position well, it must be understood that it is categorically in our favor, but this is a political position, it is not a power on its own

, but simply the sum of all the positions of all the countries of the world . such a position cannot be taken. that is , what the head of the un says and others say by the head of some countries from those countries that support ukraine well, but still, the result of this emergency meeting of the un security council, was it for ukraine because look at the question that i also wanted to ask you, but a little later, but since already i got caught up in this, and there is a meeting of the un security council, after which resolutions are adopted, after this meeting of the security council, there were no resolutions, that is, what we see, we just see, the parties spoke out and voiced their position. and it seems to me, personally, as a citizen of ukraine, it seems that russia is on this emergency security council meetings, the un was in a better position than we are, you can't say that it was in a winning position because no one openly said that ukraine did it, and even more so if

you look at the previous words, in particular temporary ones measures imposed by the un international court of justice in march of last year. it says that russia must stop those things that it is doing in connection with the aggression against ukraine, that is, the whole world will understand, the whole world will recognize that it was russia that committed the aggression, and in the corresponding direction, this will be considered as an argument in favor of ukraine, why it was russia that did this, and of course the argument there will be very long before the international court or the international criminal court , there will be very, very many legal and political issues that we will have to prove, but it cannot be said for sure that russia won a in general, this is the primary stage of consideration of the dispute, if the security council was unable to reach a certain level, to make some kind of final revolution, then this is simply the first stage. and by the way , this happens quite often because the consent of nine members of the security council,

including five by the five permanent members, as well as consent has not been observed for quite a long time, and accordingly, if in this way it was not possible to settle this conflict situation within the limits of the russian invasion, then other mechanisms will be involved, international judicial institutions , and you continue to ask questions about consent in the security council, and why are some final decisions often not reached? why does the security council not reach an agreement, well, again , it is simply the arithmetic mean of the positions of all the states that are part of it, and if you look at when there was a consensus in the security council, then it was the 1940s, when the united states had certain positions there after the second world war, or the 1990s, when the cold war had not yet ended and the world was expecting such a general period of peace and prosperity, and again the positions of the united states were very strong. and now, because the forces usa

compared to other countries, they are already not so strong, another state is stronger, which will help themselves to allow some kind of disagreement because there is no such agreement of the security council, but this is not a reason to dissolve security, or is it at all ? it was on facebook that you wrote that it should not be used and not called for its liquidation , can you explain this, of course, i am very puzzled by the posts in some telegram groups , millionaire and where do they write why this un there is nothing more, no more arguments and just thousands of comments from viewers. i can understand this anger . it also often separates me very much that there are no actions from international organizations, which we would really like, but we must understand that the united nations is the foundation of all international a right to which we can refer by saying that russia violates it and

we can condemn russia for it, that is , if international law is beads from the convention and international agreements, then the organization of the united nations is a thread on which all are strung these beads. for example, the secretary general of the un is the depository of 560 international conventions and agreements. this is a huge volume of legal material that simply would not have existed if it had not been. oh, there was no convention on combating the financing of terrorism on the crime of genocide and other conventions against which we stand against russia. judicial institutions must also understand that without the un as a universal international organization it would simply turn into such a regional fragment where the right of the strong operated , i.e. the same russia without separate plans

would have planned in the cis states, no one could somehow intervene effectively in this somehow to prevent it because there were regional fragments, it exists on its own, i rotate around the dream states on its own, india with the state of south asia on its own, africa on its own , but see more once again, i apologize for the situation. but it seems to me that russia is acting like this and he is not doing anything now. let's start from 2014, when was the annexation of crimea , when was the invasion of donetsk and luhansk regions by the un? well, what he did is also reasonable question, i can only say that there is no need to have illusions about roleon as a structure that can ensure global peace in the whole world . well, in the end, this idea is a doll, some kind of illusion and utopia , because there has never been general peace in the world. i am an internationalist who has studied international conflicts i can say that over the past 4,000 years the world has spent 92% of its time at war and

thanks to the un we were able to avoid a world war , we saw two two world wars in only 20 years of the 20th century and the task of the un has always been not to prevent all wars but to prevent wars between big states that can simply destroy their own, taking into account nuclear weapons, ion is successfully doing this, thank god, because regional conflicts there cannot be prevented always and in all cases, but to prevent them from spilling over to the ball level, where this poses a threat to everyone, this is the task and so far what are they doing with it well , let's hope that they will help us somehow, because it seems to me that well, as a simple consumer , as a citizen of ukraine, not as an international columnist of the espresso tv channel, when i watch what he is doing i see that it is not doing anything wrong i will also add in connection with your

comment that the un was created for normal states that did not want a repetition of what happened during the second world war and remained for so long and why now it is so difficult to oppose russia because it was one of such normal states and the world recognized it because it defeated hitler's germany together with the states of the western coalition and it was simply assumed that way. logically , a state that was created in a peaceful system cannot just take and start pushing bricks out of it, and russia just hit this steam from the international agreements of the conventions that it concluded, that is, russia will still someday want to return to this family of normal nations , but it will already have to pay the price of copies to return to all these conventions from which she left again, to recognize the jurisdiction of international judicial institutions, which she now denies, and so on, but

there will be a price for this, that is, she will not be able to return just like that, so you mean if more specifically, what could this price be, that is, it is purely hypothetical. that at some point something will happen in russia, well, victory will be ours . it is obvious that russia is changing power in russia. these are hypothetical options. for example, muscovy wants to return to the un, what price will it pay? this is what you said. of course, you can answer this question. by drawing an analogy with croatia , if you remember, yugoslavia is falling apart . croatia is waging what seemed like a war of independence. that is, she is not to blame for anything, but at the same time, croatian generals cover up war crimes, and in order for croatia to be able to enter the european union and become a full member

, it had to extradite criminals among croatian generals . nationalists in the 2000s, but in the end, croatia fulfilled all the requirements of the international criminal court, fulfilled the requirements of the international e-e tribunal regarding the former yugoslavia, all criminals were extradited and successfully joined the european union. otherwise, will it remain as a single state or will it disintegrate, it will still be uh, it will be nice to have the motivation to do it, because without this, no lifting of sanctions , no restoration of membership in international structures, it will simply not be clear, that is an interesting analogy, really with croatia, i am not talking about that thought thank you for telling me about it, well let 's go back to the un and to what you write. you say that liquidation is not an option and reorganization is a good option, it raised

the level of justice in the organization because how do we understand the balance of power that was after the second world war, which is now, has changed a lot, then the state was much smaller, and now such powerful powers as japan and india, germany, brazil , argentina, nigeria, south africa are rising. this is probably the first list that it comes to mind, see the states would like to be represented as permanent members of the basic council, but the point is that , for example, if we exclude russia and replace it with some other responsible state, for example, in india, the question of pakistan will immediately arise, and pakistan and india, ah, both of them have nuclear weapons, and this can once again put itself on the verge of a conflict, the same contradictions will be there

, nigeria, south africa, brazil, argentina. and this simply requires a lot of diplomatic work, which is difficult to put in. even now in some imagination, but i think it will be carried out in the end because, well, it is unlikely that russia will retain its role there. i think that if china and the united states manage to reach some kind of agreement between themselves replace the same russia to india somehow, and while i will somehow compensate for it, in principle, it will be a compromise option, because india there is definitely an ally of neither china nor the united states, and this is such a new balance, i see this as one of the options for getting out of the situation well, look, if at the initial stage you just take and cancel the legal one, then these five permanent members of the soviet security council, and see , cancel the legal one, then there is such an option, and even recently the option was offered by

luxembourg, it seems, it consists in the fact that now every use of the right of veto, a permanent member of the un security council must explain to the general assembly in front of all the countries of the world why exactly he decided to apply this legal right, of course there is no legally binding mechanism for its cancellation , but this is something that will add or to take away the legitimacy of this or that application of the veto program, and this is also a judge , because again, a normal state will want its decision to have legitimacy, to be supported in the world, especially if it is a state with global influence, so that's it the essential thing, well, look again, you say obligations. it won't be. well, okay, russia will do something later at the general assembly. when i have many representatives in the audience, she explains, motivates, there is a vote, they vote , but then there is absolutely

no one in the execution of this vote. i agree. yes, it is really a problem, but if you look at how the same general assembly supported the territorial integrity of ukraine in the 14th year in the 22nd year, we see that there is a significant increase if in the 14th year it was contained and the others abstained and did not want to express an official position, because relations with russia are very important, but now it is already 140 plus, and from the state, i think that this number will grow and on the condition that we conduct diplomatic work correctly with all of them, and are we conducting this diplomatic work correctly now, in your opinion i see very, very significant steps in this direction. our honorable minister of foreign affairs, dmytro poleba, was on a tour of africa, which, unfortunately, was interrupted there due to the again flagrant war crimes of russia. but

recently, he made a new visit where he spoke with the leadership of the african union, which is such an analogue of the european union in africa. and there really is this essential work being carried out. for example, ukraine understands that africa should be offered to solve not only ukrainian problems, but also to understand the interests of africa. this is what dmytro kuleba proposed. he offered the african union support for ukraine in that the african union received membership in the big 20 and this is a very interesting proposal, i think that if ukraine goes further, for example, it will not only advocate the termination of russia's membership in the un, and we will speak specifically for some country to enter instead of russia and build a coalition around it, this will also be an interesting decision, by the way, if we were allowed to talk about africa, i was also not going to ask you this question, but you are pushing me to it. tell me, please and your vision of this african initiative

for peaceful settlement, they are called peaceful settlement of the conflict, which in ukraine we call it obviously russian and the end of the russian war how do you how do you before this before this the peace initiative should be treated as i am, it is necessary to understand that tatyana's african initiative , within the framework of which there will probably be a visit of several african presidents of african states to ukraine and russia at the same time this month , it will concern not so much economic politicians because it is clear at first that russia's flagrant step of invasion is a shock for the world politically, but the longer the war lasts, the more it affects the economic interests of various countries, including africa , which is interested in uninterrupted supply food and fetilizer, we have chemical fertilizers, in particular viburnum, which are well produced in russia. no, because of various points connected

, in particular, with the sanction, not with the sanctions themselves, but with the surrounding sanction points of the transportation of these things to the african state, complications and this for them, er, causes enormous damage to the economy and for the sake of well-being, therefore, they will talk in this regard, and i would advise ukrainian diplomats, if they have such an opportunity to listen and consider the opinion , to also look at relations with african by the states in the latin rus, political work is through the economic one, because these are huge consumer markets for ukrainian goods, and if we will establish an economic dialogue, we will strengthen our economic presence in the circulation of goods, on this basis, over time it will be possible to say that ukraine is more present than russia. such, first russia is thrown out of everyone, including from africa, there is ukraine, it takes its place, and first , ukraine increases the attention of africa to itself and

simultaneously squeezes russia and russia even itself squeezes himself out with his children, if it is all argued correctly, then these tracks can be parallelized and there in 10 years, ukraine may already be much more visible than the other russia, well, that would be very good, and the last question for you today, well, we have already talked about such a will, it is possible not frailty, well, from my side. from my point of view, the volition of the un 's reaction, we can see the qualis of the reaction of the organizations there , the red cross in many other international organizations. what do you think, what can this be as a consequence of the western bureaucracy? is it still is it some kind of diplomacy that you talked about more or fear of russia anyway? i think a certain element of fear is present in particular in the international committee of the red cross if you remember the words andriy yarmak said in the interview with mr. komarov, well, we understand within the limits program the world inside out, he illustrated everything perfectly there. well, it was suggested that a member of the international committee visit

the relevant places on the line of contact with the russian troops from russia with the necessary security so that they could see with their own eyes that well, these security measures are taking place there, you know, this is something that is characteristic of a very european country, that is, they are as careful as possible. this is the difference between the americans, who are ready to come to ukraine for a long period without any food security there, and the europeans , who are not ready to do this, but again, they are international organizations are not the kind of structures that, you know, can bang their fist on the table and impose some terrible painful sanctions on russia, they can exclude russia