[000:00:00;00] they are looking for answers to questions that are uncomfortable or unwanted, but i hope that the russian tv channels in kherson will be removed, because maybe someone will still want to listen to russian demagogues, but there is always one. thank you for being with us, i say goodbye to you. see you tomorrow. -th in the worldview program now for your attention the verdict program serhiy rudenko be with us good evening we are from ukraine glory to ukraine this is the verdict program my name is serhiy rudenko good evening and good health to all thank you for dying with us today putin's lawyer in europe silvia ober loskoni four times the prime minister of italy, a person who made a lot of effort to make vladimir putin perceived in

the european and world courts, a lot of things silviobori uskonii did in order for russia to gain a special status in the relations between the nobility and most importantly, during the last year, silvia oberlusconi made a lot of efforts to talk about the fact that the war for russia is the fault of ukraine, in particular zelenskyi, meanwhile, ukraine is conducting a successful counteroffensive operation in the east and south the two presidents of poland and france, duda, macron, together with the federal chancellor of germany, schulz, are meeting in paris today. they are obviously talking about security guarantees for ukraine. it is obvious that these security guarantees will be discussed already at the vilnius summit, which is scheduled for july . the nato summit in vilnius should give an answer to the question of what the status will be of ukraine during the next period and what perspective will

the members of the north atlantic alliance show to the ukrainian state. currently, nato is conducting the largest air maneuvers in europe with at the moment of its establishment in the sky of europe, 250 aircraft of the members of the north atlantic alliance, with the word "e-e", representatives of nato will show the power of the russian federation and how the next provocation of putin's russia can end, meanwhile, russia continues to lose manpower and equipment in ukraine, russia has already lost in ukraine in 2,160 people in just the last day, the armed forces of ukraine destroyed 540 orks with the beginning of the great war, the russians have already lost 3,931 tanks, 7,636 armored

fighting vehicles, 3,746 artillery systems in ukraine 601 rocket salvo systems 362 air defense systems 314 planes 299 helicopters 6471 units of automotive equipment 18 ships boats 1 183 cruise missiles 337 drones 510 units of special equipment 250 planes in the skies of europe and ukraine berlusconi's counteroffensive is dead and we will talk about a lot more in the next hours, i would like to introduce today's first guest - he is a diplomat, the extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine to the united nations in 2014-2019 and the former ambassador of ukraine from united states of america volodymyr yelchenko, volodymyr, good evening and i wish you good health. thank you for being with us . let's talk today about the death

of putin's lawyer in europe, because we can't help but remember today's event , it's the death of silva berlusconi. this is one of the architects of today's putin's russia , who allowed russia under putin to develop to an unprecedented scale in europe, this is among those who helped putin , francois hollande helmut kohl angela merkel in a word, this is the generation of those politicians who did and did everything in order to bring russia , in russian, closer to europe or, more simply , to civilization. today, putin also mentioned berlusconia. i suggest you hear what he said about bir laskonni, then we continue our conversation, he was great

a friend of our people and did a lot to improve business friendly relations between russia and european countries, he was the initiator of the development of relations between russia and the north atlantic alliance. the corresponding mechanisms of interaction and his initiation, well, first of all, it was definitely an italian politician, for politicians, who do not have policies of such a scale, and the privilege

was that he said what he thought, it's a pity actually, what berlusconi did, he said what he thought and did what putin wanted . because, as i already asked at the beginning of the program , during the year we heard various statements from berlusconi , but the main message is this - it is ukraine's fault that russia went to ukraine, that is, ukraine, you are in this war what do you think about the point view of history and what we will get as a result already after our victory , will there be any responsibility for those politicians who for a long time tried to incorporate putin and his russia, authoritarian russia into the european structure and in the european structure and for a long time pretended that everything was fine and gave putin the opportunity to

to climb onto the pedestal from which he is actually speaking against the whole world. i think that even history will eventually judge all these figures, including bilokon, who, unfortunately, did not live to see the defeat of russia. changed his opinion on many issues, but really, he was a controversial figure , someone will remember him, i have to do in ukraine, in the context of the football team milan and andrii shevchenko, well, it was such a positive page, let's say in his relations with our state. well, then, hmm, the playing along with putin or putin's regime has really begun. i think that such

figures as angels merkel or nikolastivka with no iolant, who came to the instead of e-e as the president of france, well, many others who really all these years, in fact, two decades , even more, uh, someone sincerely, someone maybe thought about the economic benefits, more they tried to involve russia, that is, to tie it to europe . well, but russia showed its true face starting, well, actually uh since 2008, when it invaded georgia. well, then there were other events related to ukraine. well, finally, i think that the vast majority of european leaders understood who they are actually dealing with and precisely because of this is what we have

the result in the form of the rammstein coalition, which includes, by the way, and i was struck by this figure, even more countries than were part of the anti -coalition during the second world war, this is the positive that, uh, history will also be remembered after our victory. well, people are like that like the white people well, it is possible well, we can judge him by the italians , the italian people. he did various things, but it seems to me that he will remain such a controversial figure in the history of italy. well, as in our history, the fact that berlusconi left is symbolic life right on russia day, today is russia day, june 12, and on the eve of russia day , the international criminal court said that it would investigate the terrorist attack by the russian federation on the kakhovsky hpp. this was announced

by president zelensky. we will hear and see the explosion of the zelenska dam, it is very important that the representatives of international justice see the consequences of this russian director with their own eyes and hear for themselves that the russian terror continues and continue with the most cynical and brutal shelling of the flooded evacuation area, we are already contributing and will continue to contribute to the maximum independent objective investigation there by the international criminal court, all our law enforcement officers and other institutions are maximally involved in this process, mr. volodymyr, over the past year, we have talked with you quite often about the role played by the united nations and other security structures, international

security structures, especially during the great russia's war against ukraine. how would you rate the role of the un in the current situation, from the point of view of the reaction to the kakhovka hydroelectric power plant, the explosion of the dam, and the entire history that unfolds after that , including the participation of international structures such as the red cross and the non-governmental greenpeace we think we must directly say and admit that the role of the un and its reaction to this next terrible terrorist attack by the russians is just as weak and useless as all the previous ones , if we didn't i wanted, of course, not to distinguish, let's say, the reaction of the un as an organization well, under this, we will first of all replace there the statements of the secretary general of the un or other sources of the secrets of the un or other organizations

. well, the reaction of the un is a real decision. it is hers and the security council, but it is clear to everyone that there will be no songs. there will be no need for security. we heard at the meeting of the security council which was convened by ukraine, and by the way, russia also allegedly convened it in order to, you know, seize the initiative and show that it is not guilty of anything, since it convenes it itself, but in fact this was a tactical move, and this is not the first time it has been done during the war, well, even since 2015 plus even after the attempted annexation of crimea and the capture of crimea well, the reaction of the un is really not surprising, moreover , several days have already passed, and some heads, for example, of humanitarian departments or departments of human affairs, honivskyi in the system, they continue to repeat their mantra as such, as long as they do not have access to this place, they cannot

clearly say who is behind what and who is to blame, and its employees, as the representative of the un in kyiv in ukraine stated, cannot get into an uncontrolled ukraine part flooded areas and that is why god cannot provide but all this takes days, weeks, months. then the edge is erased. it is not a danger of some kind of emergency . they get used to it, but in principle it is normal , such a traditional reaction of the un because, unfortunately, this organization is already it has been a long time since i personally think that it has lost its potential and has absolutely lost its influence on conflict resolution. if you believe in the security of ion , then as long as russia sits there with its right of veto, and in general, as long as

the security council and the organization as a whole will not be radically reformed, and this is very difficult to do. i think it is impossible at all. everything must be started from scratch, because the system of collective security, which was created by the signing of the un charter in 1945, has completely exhausted itself, and today we we live in a completely different world, where the reaction has to take uh, it's not like there are months, weeks or not , but literally minutes, and he uh, it seems to me , well, it's completely incapable, she continues to work on those mechanisms that were laid there for 70 7 years therefore absolutely not corresponds to the present, so it is necessary to break all this and create something else, i have no doubt that this is exactly what will happen after our victory, after the defeat of russia, and then, as well as after the first and second world wars, a completely new system of collective security will be created in which, well there will simply be no place for such countries as russia, we have

a small synchronicity, antony gotresh , secretary general of the united nations, we will hear and see , guterres, the united nations, there is no access to independent information about the circumstances that led to the destruction of the dam kakhovskaya hpp, but one thing is clear. this is another devastating consequence of the russian invasion of ukraine. today's tragedy is another example of the terrible cost of war to people. the floodgates of suffering have been overflowing for more than a year . this must stop . responsibility and respect for international humanitarian law above all i call for a just peace in accordance with the united nations charter

of international law and the resolution of the general of the un assembly there and i strive, volodymyr, we know how the league of nations ended its work by self-dissolution, and we know that before that in the 39th year, when the soviet-finnish war began, the soviet union was excluded from the league of nations, and if we are already talking about reformatting, it is possible the reformatting of the un is still according to your opinion. will there be enough strength and will in the organization of the united nations to exclude russia ? moreover, there is a formal reason for this. it is possible, that is, and uh, how ready is the world , according to you, to say from the high rostrum of the un general assembly that russia should not be here at all, that is, what russia is doing

is a crime, it is terrorism, and it is not on a global scale, not only in in this case, you know, ukrainians and, in general, all of humanity, it seems to me that the readiness of other countries to expel russia from the un and the un security council, in particular, depends primarily on the activity of ukrainian diplomacy , we need to work more actively with our partners because you know this question, well, until now, it lies more in this, you know, theoretically, i told the research plane, that is, a lot has been written about it in these ways. how to do it, uh, that russia illegally became a member instead of of the former soviet union, but in practice this does not yet lead to any really effective steps, although in principle there are already certain signs

of that, and this is literally as of today, yesterday, it was already several months ago, and at the end of last year. well, for example, american diplomacy on the one hand, american diplomats in the un and the us department began to deal more seriously with this matter. they began to speak more openly about the need to change the membership , including security, for example, other countries are included, but they have not yet touched on the specific question of the place which russia is starting there from the other side, as i know for the fall, somewhere around september of this year , hearings are planned in the us congress, which were initiated, by the way, with the help of the ukrainian group of communities that deals with this such a non-governmental organization, in fact, but it also includes people's deputies and international lawyers, it is also well-known that it is engaged in the promotion of this issue, that is, the understanding

of that and, well, let's say so in a good sense , information is disseminated among our partners in other countries about why exactly to this it sits there illegally, because if it didn’t sound beautiful, let’s drive it out or exclude it from this zone for violating the un charter, if it actually does it every day in the last few years, but it sounds beautiful, but to do it, well, it’s actually not unrealistic because for this it is necessary to bring russia itself from non-application of the legal veto to the appropriate decision, but if you go purely legal such a procedural and formal way of not recognizing the powers of russia precisely because it deals with the place illegally, it has never been accepted and there is a clear procedure for consideration and security of acceptance the decision to be adopted by the ideal assembly, then there is a vote and so on that russia did not even have time to criticize the statute, that is, how it is written in the statute

that one of the permanent members of the security is the ussr so it remains, that is, even such a country does not exist in the charter of the russian federation. well, at least somewhere there already thought , adopted and practiced that charter, even so, but even we did not do it, that is, they just absolutely cynically and openly spit on me the right to all statutory documents starting with the charter un, so the process is going as fast as we wanted. by the way, i am also part of the initiative group of what they called public. i hope that the activity of such a public sector in ukraine is no longer only in ukraine as far as will lead to the beginning of serious discussions on this topic and, first of all, this should be connected with the beginning of the next session of the anal assembly, when in september all the sculptors of the world will gather in new york, and this will be the very time when this issue must be very actively raise disturb it consider

i think that the result will be so far it is known that the damages from the destruction of the kakhov hpp already amount to more than 1.5 billion euros such an estimated amount of damages announced by the ukrainian side according to calculations, kyiv is flooded about 55,000 hectares of forest, the water that would become unusable due to this act would be enough to water the whole world for two days. but nothing has been said here yet about the food security of the world, because the south of ukraine is a large agro-industrial complex and fields where grain was grown and other crops that were then delivered to the same africa, we know that this week on june 16 and 17 the leaders of seven african countries

will come to st. peter for the economic forum , but they will first come to volodymyr zelenskyi and then to vladimir putin this is the so-called peace plan and what kind of peace plan it is is still not clear, although it will probably be very similar to the peace plan of brazil to the peace plan of indonesia to the peace plan of china although in china it was rather a declaration look at what is happening in ukraine, according to your opinion, the global south is now able to somehow articulate its problems , because what putin did actually creates big problems for africa, for countries that have always been importers of our grain products of products has actually been destroyed, this is the ecosystem, the food ecosystem that existed in the world until now. because before they used to make a grain corridor there, and now they have completely

taken over and destroyed the entire system that grew all this according to yours. will there be enough strength in other countries that also acquire e- is there any power in the world, the same south african republic , in order to at least somehow influence vladimir putin, eh, i really hope for that, in general, i think it would be better for them to visit kherson instead of the st. petersburg forum or at least to bucha, but one way or another, i am sure that after the meeting with the president of ukraine volodymyr zelenskyi , those african leaders will change their minds and direct their efforts more, as you say, to eh, on the formation of vladimir putin, eh, because they are so worried about the issue of prices for grain, but they have to understand that eh, it all started. all these problems

started not because ukraine began to export less there, but because putin started ukraine and the war and the undermining of kakhovskaya hydroelectric power plant is, well, you know, another step towards a food disaster, because if it continues like this, we have already had the opinion of some experts that even this is only a disaster. it can lead to a decrease of uh, well , the so-called agricultural potential of ukraine by 15%, uh i am sure that this will mean, of course, from the latest prices, and not only for grain, but also for vegetables, fruit , meat, and so on. and all of this will be felt first of all by the countries of africa, the middle east, because they are the main partners of the ukrainian well, let's really hope that this kind of educational work with them leads to a better understanding of the president and to their not even putting forward some soapy plans, which, as

practice shows, do not carry anything because, uh, you know, the worst thing is not even that they do not take into account of all the national interests of ukraine, and the fact that they are blindly rewriting each other, well, here you can also take chinese plans, brazilian plans , or the indonesian men's plan, and the late mr. beluskonii put forward some of his plans there, and they all boil down to what is necessary to stop, to make peace, and to have peace in this world, but it also does not happen, it is necessary to look at the root of this, as they call the conflict, and in fact, what is actually the war of russia against ukraine, and in general, not only against ukraine, but who is actually the whole of it europe, so you know, i'm still trying to find a positive in this, and such a visit is a plan. it should lead to a better understanding, to the rapprochement of our countries, to better relations, they

will better understand our problems maybe this will really lead to their understanding of the root of the problem, and among other things. by the way, in that organization of nations , it is important for us to have the same votes in these countries in favor of all resolutions put forward by ukraine, and maybe when it does come to the point of exile if russia is out of order at the un, they will be able, as they say, to fall for the initiatives of the same american and other countries that today take such a neutral, positive position, let's say for now, but by no means about ukrainian global security in the 22nd year, it is noticeable has worsened compared to what happened 10 years ago, the experts of the stockholm international institute for the study of peace problems came to this conclusion and they issued another annual report where they are talking about this very thing, although it is absolutely obvious to the whole world after russia seized the zaporizhia

npp and thus committed aggression against ukraine and in fact, for the past 15 months , the world has been blackmailing the zaporizhzhya npp, now we understand that after the kakhovka hpp was blown up, they can't do everything, that is , there is some red line that they crossed and by which they feel that they do not feel that they are in danger, that is, we have a cascade of these hydroelectric power plants , there are five of them , including the kyiv ags. the russians, what are they going to do? well, they won't go, and just say that well, it's basically unrealistic for them to touch the nuclear power plant there or use the nuclear power plant in the war against ukraine

. although i appeared again today, the information that they mined the crimean titan plant there on the isthmus, which is located between the administrative border of ukraine and crimea, and you can expect anything from them. well, you know, it's hard for me to say. well, perhaps the only and uh , uh, uh, harmony that the russians or putin did not come to. this is the use of nuclear weapons, but here as they say, they are getting to nuclear power plants, and i need to get to chernobyl, there were huge problems during their attempt to reach kyiv, then these events began around and inside the zaporizhia npp, and who knows what else they are for they are capable of exactly that, and i am surprised by such a rather small reaction between the world of society. well, it is not that they do not support us and do not say

that russia is to blame for the gravy of the kakhovka hpp, but it just seems to me that they do not fully realize what it can be it's not the end yet and if you don't react to it immediately and much more seriously than just making statements to the press, then it can really end well, not just a catastrophe, but just some kind of almageddon because uh well, it seems to me that these people can only be stopped by a complete defeat on the front, and in general, the best defense forces of russia as a state. i am not talking about its occupation, as i say, i do not think that anyone and russia need it, but at least they can only be stopped by a total defeat on the front, which should simply lead to chaos inside the country, but unfortunately, many countries, including the task of partners , they are very afraid of everything, although these are the things

that the west cannot and will not influence, and ukraine cannot influence it either, we are talking about the liberation of our territory and then the help we need in order to do this and what will happen next in russia, what happens is decided by the russian people, but you know what to be afraid of. that this will lead to some kind of aggravation there, to some other escalation. that you can test us today, volodymyr , chancellor of germany in offshore , president of poland andrzej duda, flew to not the president of france , macron's manual in paris, they are discussing the issue of providing security guarantees for ukraine, we know that in july there will be a summit in vilnius of the north atlantic alliance what do you think, which of the possible and projected options can be discussed and adopted at the summit of the north atlantic