[000:00:00;00] well, there are many important ones, now it is already 140 plus even states, and i think that this number will grow, provided that we conduct proper diplomatic work with all of them, because we will introduce this proper diplomatic work now, in your opinion, i see very, very significant steps in in this direction, our honorable minister of foreign affairs, dmytro poleba, made a tour of africa, which, unfortunately, was interrupted there because of the crimes of russia. of the european union in africa and there really is this important work being carried out. for example, ukraine understands that africa should be offered to solve not only ukrainian problems, but also to understand the interests of africa

, so if dmytro kuleba proposed . this is a very interesting proposal , i think that if ukraine goes further, for example, it will not only advocate the termination of russia's membership in the un, but will also specifically advocate for some country to enter instead of russia and will build a coalition around this, it will also be an interesting solution, by the way, if we started talking about africa, i was not going to ask you this question either, but you are pushing me to it. in ukraine we call it obviously russian and the end of the russian war how do you how do you feel about this peace initiative

how do i feel? will take place under several african presidents of african states to ukraine and russia at once, it will concern not so much political and economic, because it is clear that at first russia's flagrant step of invasion is a shock for the world politically, but the longer the war lasts, the more it affects the economic interests of various works and in including africa , which is interested in the uninterrupted supply of food and fetilizer, we have chemical fertilizers, in particular potash fertilizers, which are produced in russia no, due to various factors related, in particular, by the sanction, not by themselves sanctions, and all around the sanctioned moments of the transportation of these things to an african state, complications and this for them causes enormous damage to the economy and to well-being , so they will speak in this regard, and i would advise ukrainian diplomats, if they have such an opportunity, to listen and consider

the opinion, also watch a- and on relations with african states in the latin res , political work has to do with the economic one, because it is the enormity of the consumer market for ukrainian goods, and if we are going to establish an economic dialogue we will strengthen the circulation of goods, our economic presence on this basis, over time it will be possible to say that ukraine is more present than russia. that is, it is not such a track. first, russia is thrown out of everyone, including from africa, and ukraine takes its place, and first , ukraine increases africa's attention to itself and in parallel squeezes out russia and russia even squeezes out itself by its actions if it is all argued correctly, then these tracks can be parallelized and there years later in 10 seconds - ukraine can already be much more noticeable than russia, well it would be very good, and the dogs have the last question for you for today. well, they have already talked

about such volition, it is possible involuntary. the events of the day will be fine in two hours, vasyl's big broadcast in the winter, a project for intelligent and caring people in the evening on espresso, the world during the war returns to the espresso broadcast and also on youtube for those who watch theirs on youtube, i want to say that 1900-190 people are watching us now, one person thanks you all very much, as in the end, thank you to those who watch us on cable networks. well , i will remind you of that, i will compare the interim results of the vote, and i will remind you of the question that we asked you on youtube on a channel created specifically for programs the world during the war russia should stand trial for its crimes and the three answer options are immediately considered by 88% after the war, considered by 10%, and 3% have

their own option, but you can read your own option in the comments and also after youtube on at the end of the program, he will publish our program in himself, and we are moving on. i am ready to introduce my next guest, this is andriy vigirinskyi, a political expert. mr. andriy , i congratulate you. glory to ukraine, glory to the heroes. good day. i am glad to see you. i am also very glad to see you. please tell me this question. which i just literally added, i don't know if you have read the information about the statement of the prime minister of japan , fumiya kishida, about china and about china's nuclear security guarantees, if you haven't read it, i won't ask this question, uh, look, i didn't read it, but you can ask questions, i'll ask them ok, so fomiyo kishida, the prime minister of japan, said today well, taking into account the time difference with the country of the rising sun, it was still such an early morning in our country, so he said about

making it seem like i remember that in 2013 these are his words, not a quote. but approximately in 2013, the president of ukraine, yanukovych, as well as sieden-pin concluded an agreement, and according to this agreement, china will be, well, these are my words, but in the form of the office, he said so that it is so. butsing guarantees the security of ukraine in the event of a nuclear attack attack by any countries, what do you think about this or could it be well, i re- i looked again in the morning, i looked on the internet, i really found this agreement, there really was this statement , but then there were a lot of comments on this statement, and in those comments they said that this statement was later redoed, and in its final version that was released , there is no longer what he said today in fomiyo kisida that china offers us a nuclear umbrella in general , er, that’s just china, as china’s intention, what do you

think about it or s- as much as it is for us it is serious and important that this guarantee is there, if it really exists , and why hasn’t anyone told us about it in ukraine today ? look, why didn’t they say it, because the words are meaningless for those who . it is the government of ukraine as if it were the president of ukraine, well, the government of the universal category was used by representatives of china . which joined the relevant agreement and china was one of them and that well, this is a document that is much older than the events of 2013 , commitments without specific content, we are talking about statements, memoranda, or shall we say declarations that are signed yes, and they do not become part of our national legislation or the legislation of china, they do not entail any obligations

, and as a result, what viktor fedorovich yanukovych is signing, what was signed in budapest as a fixation of the nuclear disarmament of ukraine, has already lost its validity from the point of view of relevance and of course we can, and at the level of diplomacy we are hunting for china as a super-country and a super-state on planet earth, which is generally interested in peaceful coexistence, as a subject that can well, let's say join the initiative related to the initiatives of connected with the support of ukraine, but china still proceeds from its own pragmatic interests, and these pragmatic interests are precisely demonstrated in its political position, and verbal commitments or verbal declarations against who took which commitments , they did not turn us away from of russian armed aggression, borussia was the same country that also made certain commitments, and therefore there is no point in raising this issue in rhetoric, because it will most likely lead us to a deeper conflict or, let's say

, the formation of a mood among the population of a negative nature in relation to the people's republic of china in why is ukraine actually not interested not interested from the point of view of the economy because china was arbitrary until the active phase of the 22nd year as one of our key trade and economic partners and actually speaking even within the limits of who of limited external economic cooperation, which ukraine has as a specialized world, the force of limitation of a logistical nature, china remains one of the key partners, well, precisely in trade and economic activity for us, we are not interested in intensifying relations with china to the point of ending together with it well, let's say at least international trade we we cannot afford to repeat the path taken by one of the baltic countries, he noted, having opened such an institution, the representative office of taiwan. well, if they opened a taby representative office, they would not have any problems. and when they opened a taiwanese representative office, china reacted

to this in principle proportionately and asymmetrically by simply deleting this country and, let's say , the countries of importers and exporters. well, in terms of trade and economic relations, if ukraine is ready to go this way, then it is necessary to understand where those 30% of grain exports , which squeak through the grain corridor, will they float or will they float at all, and then, under such conditions, we cannot count on the position of china, which is the only country as of today, which is capable of maintaining communication with russia within the framework of potential negotiation processes or within the framework of those processes in the negotiation processes that are taking place today and we actually want some kind of positive participation of china for us and china's position regarding the territorial integrity of ukraine , let's say for us is not a loser, it is insufficient from the point of view of the expectations of ukrainians and aspirations of ukrainians, but it does not deny the fact of territorial integrity and

sovereignty of ukraine within its sovereign borders, plus it does not recognize new territorial possessions of the russian federation, therefore, inciting hatred towards another country , which is not a country like iran or north korea, from the point of view of its scale, is harming national interests, and i think that the mind is sufficient , well, at least all parts of such steps are not what should i do, andrei? i'm not saying to incite hatred. i'm just saying what to remember about this relation to you . i 'm talking about the information line. we are discussing yes, that is, there is a general general information policy, in this general information policy you can sow certain theses, then these theses will be broadcast on the air of national telethons, their amorphous or , let’s say, without initiative, they will pick up other information resources that try to move within the boundaries of the forvator, which is set by the state and the will form

a certain certain impression, certain feelings and certain perceptions of society. energy renewables in other sectors that are interesting for us from the point of view of strategies after the end of the war, we count on the role of the country that will take part in the reconstruction of ukraine and in investments, well , at least that was the official political rhetoric from the office of the president, and if i am interested in them, then we are not can we, let's say, form a negative image of the country, which , according to our expectations, should enter ukraine in the future as an investor, or as an entity that will be on a voluntary basis , hmm, or humanitarianly restore our infrastructure, etc. andrii, you misunderstood a little what i wanted to ask you. i'm not forming exactly this and i don't want formats and i don't want anyone to form this negative attitude towards china. it's just that today this statement was made by the prime minister of japan and i just i wanted to say whether we can use it simply not to incite hatred towards china or

enmity there, just to use it once again to remind that there is such an agreement and that this agreement is possible china is really already using it and possibly putting pressure on ukraine i have in mind, how can we use this agreement even more in communication bilaterally bilateral or at the level of a special representative or at the level of communication with the president of china sisinpinium i think that our military and political leadership could mention these commitments as an argument in our favor that we recognize your your role your staff your status on the planet yes we do not deny this at the same time we will say we appeal to those obligations that were taken as a guarantee and understanding that you cannot admissibly retreat there in our favor eh during the war, whether to increase the supply of certain types of weapons to us, yes, because this contradicts the creative foreign policy doctrine, yes, or

relations with the russian federation, at the same time, we count on cooperation with you in view of the commitments made, but again, this is rhetoric, this is rhetoric, what exactly it should sound, it sounds, it is reflected in official documents, but it is not something like that, it is, let’s say , inciting inciting to some specific actions. yes, from china’s side, it is necessary to understand why japan actually pronounces the corresponding the intention of japan plans to move from, say, a demilitarized policy to a policy that does not actually provide for the military capability of the owner of the armed forces to well, let's say a full-fledged policy because japan is a historical empire, an empire that had rather difficult, if i may say so, extremely bloody relations with china, and japan is a country which is located in the region where china is trying to absorb all those entities that previously gravitated towards japan and south korea or were in the field of landmarks and in the field

of interests of the united states. japan is that a country that, let's say, is not going to be a subject subject to those who move in the shaper of china's policy, that's why it is, well, its captive, its political leaders working at the same time in the same emotional media and field and in the field of confrontation by the united states. it is working to shape the image of china well, in a negative connotation. well, as threats. well, this is quite logical. well, in general, it corresponds to the geopolitical trends taking place in the south china sea and in view of the potential threat of escalation in issues in taiwan but there are also the marshall islands and a whole set of issues related to the philippines, where china does not fulfill the decision of the international arbitration court, therefore, it has a negative image. and this is a negative image of people as a country that does not fulfill its obligations in relation to china serves the interests of japan first of all, unfortunately, we are in this

vein, uh, well, it is an excuse. well, to be no more, no less , well. understood. ap andriy, let's listen first. now, before i ask the next question directly to the minister of foreign affairs of the czech republic i nalipavskogo next question russia continues to expand the limits of its aggression, the detonation of the dam in nova kakhovka can be compared to the use of weapons of mass destruction against the civilian population, this brutality will be condemned and punished well , today, as you have already heard, we put the viewers who watch on youtube and question: when should these trials be held? this is the punishment that andrii lipavsky is talking about, not only him . by the way, when should these trials be held in your opinion, when should they be waited for? put uh, the viewer is, in principle, dividing the level of their voting because he is the same ukrainian as they are and lives this war on the territory of ukraine

, yes. if the question is now a question for you as an expert, well, i’ll just clarify now, i’ll go to the expert question opinions, that is, an emotional question, when should punishment be done? well, immediately . well, because the criminal or the one who commits aggression, he must be punished. well, the shortest possible time or optimally should it be immediately after the commission of the crime? and also it is better at the level of intentions, so that the criminal activity is stopped at the stage of the attempt. and from the point of view of emotion, this is absolutely true , from the point of view, there is simply a point that consists in the fact that the emotional component and legal procedures or international legal procedures do not work based on the aspirations of the injured party there they must be under the roots of certain regulations, certain rules and a certain procedure. and here are the rules and procedures. this is just a colossal moment of disappointment. we

are, in fact, ok, citizens - this is a separate history, institution, let's take the parliament of ukraine after the events in bucha. well, for the initiative of the people's voice, go to george rohamia and for the vote of all parliamentary factions. which you taught on the territory of ukraine , as of today, this special tribunal has not been established, some countries are joining it, but not even all countries that are in the same plane and we can talk with you about the element of international justice - this is an element of international justice - this is an international criminal court, that international criminal court that issued a warrant for the detention of the commissioner for the protection of children's rights in the russian federation and putin at the same time rules and procedures this court does not provide for the possibility of justice in the absence of the accused, and here already our expectations and our wishes diverge from

the rules and procedures according to which it exists the international criminal court is functioning and when we talk about it. strictly speaking, when the russian federation will appear before justice, unfortunately, it is necessary to complicate the dialogue with the public and talk about what format of the court we are talking about. if we are talking about the international criminal court, then the answer will be accordingly when putin will be brought to court, when it will happen, no one can say, if we are talking about the format of the convicted in absentia , yes, that is, in the absence of the defendant, we see the suspect, then we need a special the tribunal is a special tribunal that has not yet been created and has not been created due to a whole set of uh problems. well, because of a whole set of circumstances and these circumstances. they are in the plane of the interests of the countries that should join the initiative to create and take responsibility and obligations efforts to prosecute these persons in 5 years

, in 10 years, when the fog of war clears yes, and perhaps, let's say, the urgency of war, it will disappear from the information space , but they will be obliged to prosecute russian war criminals and unfortunately, in my opinion, it doesn't reach four dozen, 34 or 35 there , when either this calculation is carried out and this institution does not exist, and the situation in our country is such that aspirations are connected with prosecution because there is something for which and we with last week and during the last year and a half, we have been observing the set of war crimes committed by the russian federation on the territory of ukraine, and it is obvious to us, as it is to other parts of the world, that it is the leaders of the country who must bear responsibility for these crimes they also determine the political military course, but at the same time, if in the dry balance, well, look at the situation, we can say that we have advanced especially intensively in the direction of this

prosecution, unfortunately, unfortunately. well, here international norms and national interests of the governments of countries that even verbally they support ukraine , they are aware of the fact that russia from the planets from the map of the planet earth will not disappear, the political leadership that exists today at the level of the russian federation, it is all complete, all are participants war crimes and crimes of aggression on the territory of ukraine and to start the corresponding process is actually cutting off the possibility of a certain form of interaction with the russian federation after the end of the war, understanding that the regime there is more likely than anything . well, maybe it will not be putin at the head, but it will be people close to putin or those who , like him, should be on the bench, even in an international tribunal , that's why our expectations are emotional, they are justified because we are victims of aggression, but

the expectations or possibilities of the international system of criminal prosecution, they are limited and this limitation is actually disappointing because we do not get the result and the desire to punish the restoration of justice in relation to persons who commit crimes every day and destroy our country , unfortunately, you know that by continuing what you said that which leaders understand that russia will not disappear from the map of the earth ? last week, the chancellor of germany offshol said that everyone who thinks that russia will disappear should think about what is between us, between germany and europe and russia an ocean will not suddenly appear which is simply known to us and this is really absolutely right er you see he uses a little different verbal forms well related well in principle with the same yes but just packs it into some kind of softer form that the geography of us arestovych also told somewhere in my opinion that in israel, geography will not change something, that is, what plans individual figures did not draw about how they

plan . his battlefield, well, that is, on his territory in moscow, and then we can talk about the establishment of external management, the distribution, well, the change of territorial matches, and so on. goals, neither from germany nor from france, nor from the united states, in the end, look, look, i now have another question in the continuation of this, we did not hear such goals, but also see the 11th package of anti-russian sanctions in europe oh, how hard it is going well, is he at all he doesn't go stalled. last week, several meetings were held in order to agree on it, and they stopped it. it's all related to this. well, no, i think that the 11th package of sanctions is simply hitting the economic interests of individual countries. that is, we're getting deeper.

that is, you understand to take a passive position that we 10 have accepted everything we have exhausted the entire toolkit it doesn't work it doesn't work why because information is constantly appearing and investigations are constantly appearing about how the russian federation has the opportunity to circumvent the sanctions introduced at the level there the previous 10 packages, and she bypasses them using legal entities that are registered both in the countries of the european union and in countries that are not members of the european union, but quite calmly cooperate with them and have trade and economic relations, which means that public publicity is provided with information about the that the sanctions are not as effective as we would like, and after some time, that is, after a year, they actually do not slow down the ability of the russian federation, at least there in terms of production certain elements of the military-industrial complex noticed that somewhere in the rhetoric of our information company, the topic that the russian federation has

two or three launches of missiles left, and on the contrary, it is about the fact that, yes, they are producing, but they are somehow producing less and they are producing there within 70 possible volleys of calibers there and other e-e and other missiles per month, although the expectation was from sanctions that , in fact, technological starvation would deprive russia of the opportunity to carry out such production , and as a result, well, the moment begins connected with the fact that it is necessary to reflect, react and limit the possibilities of circumventing sanctions, yes, that is, actually stop the parallel import of contraband and all other things, the mechanisms of which are known, and even more so, which are already described by journalists, this is not about intelligence, this is not about special services of structures that must monitor the mechanisms of the introduction of sanctions, specifically the journalistic investigation , it is necessary to reflect. but this reflection already affects not only the relations between europe and russia, it also affects these intermediary countries. well, the countries