[000:00:00;00] this ideological and media component in order to make it easier for us to breathe through the wall, i still want us to talk after the break about what is happening in the world , are they really so wrong ? about the countries of africa that we saw today but nevertheless, it is a break, wonderful countries shudder from explosions, when night becomes day from flashes, we worry about our relatives and we are worried about our help, forces against air defense hold the heavenly front

they protect us, and we must protect them, do not shoot and do not post photos and videos of air defense operations on the network. the country of terrorist love is a ridiculous and undeniable act of ecocide. taking out the kakhovka hydroelectric power station is the largest man-made disaster in europe, the consequences of which are unpredictable, more than 80 settlements were at risk of flooding due to the destruction of the dam continues, the threat to the lives of thousands of civilians in this act of terror will not stop our thirst for victory, because only the victory of ukraine will restore the security of the world human trafficking risks of falling into sexual or labor exploitation are real due to loss of homes lack of funds confiscated documents means of communication restricted movement access to medicine rest food forced or inclined to sexual acts drawn

into financial dependence due to debts all these are signs of falling into a situation of human trafficking found themselves in danger or you see that others have found themselves, call to learn more about safety rules and opportunities to help , we continue our conversation, we talk about russian propaganda, its influence on ukrainians, its influence on the russians and here, in particular, we finished with the fact that i remembered the story when i spoke with pele, the manager of the russian federation , he said three months and that means we will wash the heads of the russians and do the opposite and talk with mykhailo himself ruslan er deynechenko and oleksiy kovzhun on the actual topic propaganda well, it is possible, but before that, i would still like to finish the international block if possible, but it is great news a couple of days ago in france , a large-scale company was stolen with disinformation

about russia's war in ukraine for a year in there were 355 web domains on the internet that published pro-russian content masquerading as publications from europe, the united states and the middle east, for example, four french media found 58 fake articles, this is about the absolute official, popular, well-known media lemonda and for figaro and so on, and the site is similar to the french mz site wrote about the fake tax on security , which was allegedly introduced to help ukraine, but in order to end this international block, these are really fake editions and questions. the only thing is that they should be closed, as they were closed in ukraine at one time and how they closed the extreme baltics and there is no problem or the problem is deeper from where in this story does the lemon figaroe appear in the official forms and so on how does it penetrate well actually i would like to comment on the words of guest andrews who said that it seems that there are huge successes in europe in the fight against by russian propaganda and it's great that they closed arti, they closed sputnik, they now have their accounts in

social networks closed and people don't see it, but that doesn't mean that propaganda has disappeared, but it just changed to other forms. they also work through that some local publications because of fake some publications. they work with trade unions, they themselves brag about how they are, and in britain about the teachers' union, they promote their narratives through this trade union, saying that let's not give money for weapons to ukraine, but rather let's raise the salaries of our teachers and school teachers there and they walk around with posters, they were washed bridges, they walk around with posters, they think that if they don't give money for weapons to ukraine, someone will raise their salaries, uh, and russian propaganda she works in the background, she also works there with trade unions and with some local organizations, some mira funds, this is all from the soviet union, they have huge traditions of how to work in europe with political parties. which has been talked about a lot, it

uses, that is, in the russian version , the search for any vulnerability is going on, but the trade unions are absolutely uh, so we are going to the union , for example, there is a vulnerability in the economy of gas okay let's work on gas and the same with propaganda, they look for any possible vulnerability and then start working to beat there the finances of the special services , the agency, all this, all this works constantly in different countries. by the way, it is completely different , because different countries have different vulnerabilities . by the way, we also worked well, for example, in countries such as the czech republic, for example , we tried to change. by the way , we succeeded in a lot of things. because when a special person who forms information understands this information, he will not allow the spread of just stupid fakes and often paid fakes, because please, is

it possible in this way? well, as far as i understand what we are talking about, this is actually the work of thousands of people in different countries and regions internal audiences european, american, african, asian, it's not just that a few people came up with something there. offer to search who is coordinating it, where is it all financed, and why did they tell seven people to sound like a radio a thousand hills to sound their criminal, a classic of the dew genre , the difficulties of the saints, there used to be a commentariat, what uh, what do you have in america , the 60s, black panthers, super, let's go we will send them money, literature , and we will help them with weapons. what are you doing? ntv, a war movement of hippies against the war in vietnam, super super, let 's support them, we are now in the pacifist movement

absolutely, here with the ultra-right, here with the ultra-leagues, here with dog breeders' clubs, here with mommies here are slgbt movements is a classic rule if you see some powerful organization with incomprehensible funding and an incomprehensible management system in europe , you know that either the russians have already gone there or any organization from greenpeace to the union of fishing lovers, anything and everything there are budgets of billions, the basis is in money. and why didn’t we come in all this time ? i once said in one of the cases when i was asked. i said that we had to talk with the russians, and i was already cut off here and let them go to

whomever she wants to talk to the russians. i said what was to be done with them the same as the americans once did with the soviet union, they were to be broken by our propaganda. yes , what was radio svoboda doing when they covered themselves with carpets and listened and listened to the voice of truth and when there were events in afghanistan and the russian public listened lyshchynsky well, it seems that the commentator was like that when he said that kandahar is behind me and everything is calm here, yes, and at this time, black tulips were flying to ukraine, everywhere, eh and eh, so i received my share of criticism just because it sounded the word is to talk with the russians, but i am absolutely convinced that we are finalizing the propaganda now, the only thing is how to work or how to work with the russians, as in this propaganda of ours . as our word, our vision and our thinking , uh, can be put there, and it can be expanded only with the russians, with that

the very regions we talked about where we are not used to hearing and efforts and belarus and this and kazakhstan, including from there it goes there too, they are not used to hearing us so it is important that the armed forces of ukraine must talk to the russians because they are here what is the history of ukraine? i will remind you. this is the only thing they can do. the only language they can understand. well, then the americans didn't attack the soviet union. they worked like that . absolutely, but there was a history of the beatles. they were better than valentina. tolkunova, the jeans were better than the school uniform, and the beer of the guards was better than the beer that happens. there is beer or there is no beer, and it was simple , and besides, soviet propaganda, it was

sad and gray and it was for a tick in modern russia, in fact, propaganda serves them she doesn't protect them, let's not make ourselves happy. it's not bad. putin lured good russians into propaganda, he serves them. they hear what they want to hear from us. they don't want to hear. well, the soviet union also wanted to hear it. they wanted what the beatles were better than yosypka , but for 90% of the population they listened to kobzon to a nuclear explosion no-no-no to some kind of nuclear peace yes-yes-yes do you understand that those who did not reach bitus, i mean that they it was objectively better the athenian servlet is famous for some reason it was better than twenty sausages that were so tasty that the whole country would go to moscow and buy them. the truth is that the russian-speaking context

, if we speak post-soviet in the peasant territory, then there is ukrainian, er, ukrainian programs listen to russian-language programs because they understand ukrainian. i met moldovans there they say it's great that you have these russian-language marathons because they listen to them and i take some information because, for example, they haven't been. by the way, because they speak ukrainian, people of kazakh society, for example, moldavians, they definitely told me that they are listening to it and this is the source of your information because there is russian-speaking russian information there is russian-speaking ukrainian yes unfortunately not very much because their information sphere is completely closed they are information bubbles but nevertheless there are channels i will share a small personal story i have a friend in moscow, and one time he wrote to me every other day and arestovych said that's what aristovych said. that is, they are still interested in what is happening here and there is a water

hole, there are people, there are some channels, there are are located, look at what they are listening to. therefore, we must use it, we must look for these channels, how to reach them, as possible , if not to convince them, then at least convey the information that we need, that is, your recipe , which ukrainian information is a weapon, more information in different languages, from different sources, of course absolutely absolutely, and again, this is not only about russia, but about any markets and about the euro, one should not forget europe. of fakes is the most effective story, we have to go forward with an informational attack. yes , this is just one of the stories that we need to do. in order to be cured

, but we have to take vitamins there and some other medicines in order for the patient to recover , so people must be allowed to try to give information, to try, and again , we work with journalists. and with foreign ones, it is most effective when they come here when they look at what is really happening here, and never tell journalists what to give, what natalya says is how to throw our narratives there, for example, i am constantly invited by arab channels and i and i tell there what is special about them, as a rule, they invite a russian e- is a propagandist and, for example, me and this russian just talks about the ppu in english , he is practically invited by arab tv channels, it’s great, and a russian tells propaganda. at the moment, the channel says that the ukrainian says so, he says that it's your

propaganda, he shouts no, but it's interesting, they hear , they understand that you can't compare a liar , who lied 100 times to a person who is an expert , they are very interesting, translators sometimes say glory to ukraine, that is, the city itself , that is, it is a different story here. i understand it that way, but either glory to ukraine glory to ukraine glory to ukraine , he spoke, it seems, in ukrainian russian, that is , once we did not ask to speak not in english, but in ukrainian friends well, one way or another look, there is a patient. yes, these are the people of russia, yes, he is a palliative. let's say so, i apologize for such words, for three months, they say yes and a pallet. well, a person can be lifted and he will think completely differently, that's what i heard. from e of the words of that element there are do you believe that e is really this term it

is so small do you believe that it is possible so easily e is it determined that we will convince them yes and that e a or they will stick to their opinion but they will be ashamed, they are not afraid of what can be done with them. it can be sold to them the victory is about that, well, we won the war. yes, we have to sell the victory to him. so he will do it later, please, or putin croaked , and they say that he is to blame for everything, and we won, if we take your concept of such political technology, if we won, then we we can repeat that we won the war putin started the war and we are not its enemy we won the war listen then he already says they are stopping

the war it has been literally a couple of days and that is why it is easy for them to think about the fact that well we won so our guys are coming home happiness health soon you can will travel abroad buy dior and gucci and they will return, but the mp will remain absolutely, absolutely, well, that is, this is our goal absolutely well, here at this table there were people who said that you are afraid to make a mistake, and who said that when ukrainians talk about the fact that they are interested , who they are interested in the fragmentation of russia, if the regions fell off and there is still some left, then the west does not accept this because the west is afraid of the disintegration of russia into the west did not collect the uncontrollable and the west is even afraid to leave russia without nuclear weapons, that is, the west wants to leave it

but it is under control, so reduce certain weapons, reduce it, and so on, carry out the conversion. well, that’s actually the problem, you understand, because we see. they say that when you say this, the west is all west, it’s not ok, but i we we remember that there is a west nervous when give it back when bush the elder came to ukraine on the kyiv street and this is hmm low-level nationalism godfather get more autonomy you don't stand out because they were scared by hmm 15 nuclear states and now they are scared by the president how much 123 hryvnias 38 many nuclear states, but as the ukrainian experience has shown, they somehow separated and there was still nothing. there was no margaritatcher in this regard, and somehow we left it and there it will be, it will fall like this, as we say, the

only source of logic is the armed forces of ukraine. the most likely and effective option is a military defeat of russia, and it seems to me that this shock that will hit russian society will simply a-ah, well, it will be in this historical memory for a long time, uh, well, it will destroy it, and i think that it is for the fact that the only the oppositionist is prigozhin, but the defeat comes, the person who comes to power, well, the conditional prigozhin will come after him and what and what will happen next . well, we are talking about how they will affect the psyche of the russians and their vision of the world, so i just know what i am afraid of, i am afraid that mr. oleksiy pravyi what it will be said, we destroyed the economy there, we won everything, well, that is, they will come anyway, well, they will figure out how to screw it up. let's do it, god be with them, and yet let's return to our people, traumatized by information, no, god is with us. well, i can't

say who among them is that friend putin and medvedchuka okay, they don’t serve anyone, but i want to return to us. people are traumatized by constant information attacks , people are now hungry for information . not even to repel, but to give better informational food so that they do not climb into those russian garbage cans, and yet how can we clean up this informational field so that people get used to taking verified information because it seems to me that even in a telegram you can still tell people that please use these. we will not close the rest, but we advise you to trust them . well, such a letter is needed. if we had a minister of culture and information policy, then such a letter is possible without appeared read these channels you don't read

eyes eyes believe that it is really true for our people well at least let's go first let's try the second time it means you are getting a letter yes you are ready to come yes it is already all written there so oleksiy kovzhun, please read this telegram channel, this and this and nothing else, this is a moscow activity because it is a moscow day. well, thank you, half of the country. well, what do they write there? you know the emergency department, when you see an unfamiliar object, please don't touch it, and the same story should be. here, but this is the minimum, the minimum, and in fact, what is needed, well, first of all, we need to prepare for such stories, because this winter found us on the beach, this is not the best strategy, but what can be done right

now, right now, you can tell stories , you can tell cool stories of people, you can you can tell the story of the three soldiers, you can tell the story of the animals, we want stories of people in general, emotional human stories, absolutely , and this will give us time until well, everything will stabilize , because why can’t we talk about it now , because it’s not a chess game here , well, these thimbles, but that one goes there and that one like that opa and i'm there and you can't go there because any information can become fatal, but when the same offensive is already ripe, when we already hit here, then there will be cameras on the tanks well, you won't think that we are late with this

a social contract a contract regarding what we yes yes well if we had a minister of e-e information policy and culture he is , after all, and this is the second time we are talking about the fact that , first of all, don't put us in an awkward position because he is with us a former colleague, so, so, so, and we see what he is doing in the information field, in the information industry , secondly, i am not at all inclined to blame anyone, neither the prime minister nor the vice prime ministers, nor the minister that they don't do anything because when i look inside the average people what they do, how they do it there, in what quantity , in what quality, it can be discussed. but again, it is possible what oleksiy said, for example, how does the facebook company do disinformation , propaganda, it does not delete it, it labels it, that is, those fakes

which we refute, and facebook takes it, and if it is someone who has attracted facebook , they mark it as false, and when a person opens the page of his feed and sees this fake there, read why it is fake 90%, they do not open , they simply do not open well, i have on pay attention to this lie, they don't read lies because they were warned if the same thing happened , for example, in telegram, ah, this telegram is a propaganda channel, it regularly spreads false messages. all people received this message, they will not continue to read it , and there is no need for any e-e in the prem the minister of the prime minister or the minister of culture to do it, our public organization and the facebook company did it , we agreed on it, we are doing the same with telegram, you just have to twist telegram's hands so that they go to such and do such a program you don’t need absolutely any money, you just need a desire to do it and it’s done, well literally in a few days you owe telegram so that they

do something similar and it works discuss twitter in telegram so that is, here now number one and monetization yes the fight must be complex that is, for example, we are talking about sanctions and the sanctions themselves, so that the russians have less money, i mean these. we say 5 billion dollars, what kind of propaganda is there , they spend a lot of money, and if they have there will be less money, they will have less money for the war, well, of course. and they have a vinnytsia component and an informational component, otherwise an important component is therefore sanctions, when we say in the west, well , you impose sanctions on the seedlings, because they are making money , of course, they are already shouting business, they have all there and the americans are all but starting sanctions and then, of course, working with specific platforms because it is really technical to ban. that is, is this really a comprehensive approach, or is this almost done

by the state as a ministry? look at who has the highest level of trust, who can do it, who can offer it to people, if the level of trust is higher than that of a certain minister, then it should be done , if a specific person in ukraine has a higher level of trust, it should be done by the one to whom he is, if it is meritorious, it means that should go out and say, remember how about 30,000, when zabrodskyi signed the letter, kid , uh, you signed the letter like that, explained to the military, and the situation instantly decreased , you understand, so i think that the one who has the e- e level it should be the minister of children. well, to an influencer, as we say, people trust and should be the state or the state thinks that it is okay. that is, we have then, in the 17th and 16th, when those russian resources were closed, it played a role when the state was a fantastic leadership

well, there were several waves there, and i remember there in the social network, then the snakes, then the ips just started a new wave. i think yes, yes, well, first of all, this is a historical moment that can be taken advantage of. cool wording historical moment which is not it is possible to lose, it is very important, friends, how many 2.5 minutes are shown by the editors, and we can already say and turn to you with a request: do not read russian sources, do not read sources that are not verified . look, you are probing somehow, you still check how many sources, well, these are the rules of information hygiene , which we have been talking about for 16 months of the war, so it is not difficult to do it at all. and, well, you also have a responsibility when you pass on news by word of mouth, and it is desirable that you pass it on and

had support for these news or your thoughts uh and again remember what uh is the most important thing in this war is our unity and no one should encroach on it even if it is your opinion leader even if it is a person who you are extremely respect, but as soon as this person raises his hand for the unity of ukrainians, it is necessary to simply delete him from his circle of friends and from his circle of those whom you look up to, because it is a threat to national security, well, this is my opinion and i want to confirm it correctly to the idea, they said about that we we are all now responding because there was a comparison of these informational fakes with an infection and we all have to wash our hands and head , let's when we tell something , let's spread it again and see how far it can correspond to reality, how far it is possible for a person you trust to check this information, especially now because these are not empty words when people pay with blood , well, they are really paying now, and it has been 15 months already. thank you very much for this

conversation. i hope that something will be conveyed to our viewers, and at least they have such hope oleksiy kovzhum thank you ruslan deynychenko thank you and mykhailo in the recording thank you 1+1 continues the national telethon at this time we are working in the format of a discussion platform the night watch and the studios are working for you maria vasilievna and i in frankivskyi today we will talk about such a very interesting topic in my opinion, as the secrets of what remained at the bottom of the kakhovsky reservoir, with all the tragedy of this event, this ecocide that the russian federation arranged on the territory of ukraine, the tragedy of human destinies and so on, with all that, there is another such a very unexpected aspect, which for many people actually became a discovery, namely that

at the bottom of this reservoir there was an area hidden about which everyone, well, at least not all, but most of the people had long forgotten, and an entire stratum of ukrainian history was actually hidden under the layer of water. this is the cossack atlantis - velikiy lug, and about him, too, what i read while preparing for the broadcast , what to give and velikiy lug - this is the father, about this great meadow, and we will talk about it and in our studio, uh , ruslan shalipov, our colleague, journalist, screenwriter of the film "treasures of the nation" he researched e-e in the kakhovsky reservoir and maksym stapenko, the acting director of the kyiv-pechersk lavra national reserve and in the past the head of the khortytsia reserve, a hydro-archaeologist e-e these people know exactly what was hidden at the bottom of the kakhovsky reservoir about them realities and problems and, well, the treasures

that have already been announced , we will talk about it. thank you for visiting, thank you. this is the first question that i want to ask . those areas that have already lost water in the kakhovo reservoir and the network is simply filled with footage of people finding coins, ancient weapons, some historical artifacts , tell us that simple and every day you see new treasures and what kind of territory is this actually that it became such a real discovery for many that this land does not just