[000:00:00;00] kremlin's most important valery zaluzhny refuted the moscow fake news about his so-called disappearance. the results of the week are a review of only important events , important reliable events - this is analytics, fact checking, expert comments, we will tell you all about it in the next three days, about important things in plain language available to all viewers in the studio iryna koval and for your attention news summary of the week news summary of the week every saturday at 21:00 nayspresso weekly saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world vitaly portnikov host of espresso and invitation, experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events, you want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, see the saturday political club that saturdays

are not espresso are back and we will also now talk with mr. oleksandr sushko , a political scientist and an internationalist. this is what we are here for, we will emphasize because, among other things , the executive director of the international revival fund , we will not talk about the revival fund today, unfortunately. good health , mr. oleksandr. thank you for finding time for us. and so the question is if you can hear us, i hope you can hear me yes, i hear you, look, there is such a theory so far, we have not seen it, that after the end of the war or the hot phase of the war, i imagine that ukraine can join nato. how do you imagine it, the actual one?

conditionally, i would like it to be definitely there in the second dk, and in june 2023, the war ended, and so what happens next in the sense of our nato perspectives, so the war ended there on june 17 or there on june 20, it ended at once, what happens on june 21, uh, i think that a viable scenario involves, er, such an approach that everything should be decided before the war ends, because if we postpone certain decisions until the end of the war, then this will be a great motive for russia to never end this war if they know . probably in order to prevent ukraine in nato should simply continue the war indefinitely. then they will continue it

. therefore, the decision itself should be based on the fact that the algorithm itself is announced even before the war has ended. well, mr. oleksandr algorithm, how does it happen? well, i always forgot. we will now say that there will be no pdc, well, at least there are such very persistent rumors, that is, there is no need for these intermediate stages, that is, that zelensky simply writes a letter to nato, nato says ok and the ratification procedure of each country begins, or whatever. there is no need to write any additional letter. that is, all relevant official appeals have already been made, and in this case we only have to wait for the moment when the member states agree on a certain approach. it should be provided for certain certain

transitional guarantees that should be in effect even before that how will the war end and then the actual acquisition of full-fledged membership after i think that the most important thing is that i do not think that there will be any specific procedures to be registered separately for ukraine, there is no need for this, there is a procedure that consists in inviting a country to join the alliance, that is, member countries turn to another the country they want to see as their member with an invitation to join uh and then the ratification process takes place i think here no one else will invent another procedure just this how will it work yes with what transitional periods with what mechanisms is possible, yes, to date, this is unknown, this is the subject of negotiations , this is a difficult dilemma, because we understand that

today a large part of the member countries are afraid of being directly drawn into the war, and their voters do not want this, and they are dependent on our voters, and we must understand it, well , it will be a road closer to finland, sweden , i hope the swedes will be accepted. is this the road of the balkan countries, which, for example, before nato, for decades some have been knocking on the door nothing worked out where the ukrainian ukrainian dear that this will be a certain third option because, unlike the volcanoes, we will no longer have a pc , this stage has already been passed but unlike finland, we will not have an entry in a couple

of months, it will be a much longer process, and this a these months, returning to scandinavia again, there were statements immediately from britain and america, as far as i remember, and we are already taking them under the umbrella during the preparation , as far as i remember, i have this impression . maybe i'm wrong, but this impression is what i i heard what they said. no, this does not mean that you will get our umbrella after that. you will get it right away, and they are already under the umbrella. in a state of war at the time of this decision, we should not have any illusions that someone will give us an umbrella. right now , fully understanding that this actually means direct involvement in the war, it will not be like that, but there will be a certain

other mechanism, which is still the subject of negotiations, so far contours unknown, it will definitely be a different path, which is different from both the balkan one on the one hand and the finnish one, alexander , but then there is a question about these guarantees, i talk about it every time i have a broadcast and i ask experts, but now i ask you when they say the israeli option it means intelligence, money, weapons, ammunition, training, it doesn't mean anything else, it doesn't mean that there will be some kind of special program that will fully guarantee ukraine that there will be no war , it's simply because when you look at this

specialty, the relations between israel and in the united states, there is nothing there, there is no weapons production on the territory of israel in common with the americans, but there are still no such guarantees. well, i don’t know any guarantees there that will simply make it impossible to repeat february 24, 22. there are none, well, listen, on february 24, it already happened . that it will not happen, it is already going on, the war is already going on , that is why it is really a very difficult question how, on the one hand, to provide ukraine with possible transitional security mechanisms, on the other hand, to satisfy the interests of the key countries of the west, and they consist in not being

are now directly and immediately involved in an armed conflict with russia, and this is not a simple question in principle. now you have spoken about it twice, and i would ask you if unwillingness to be involved in war means unwillingness, if not to make nerves, as they say in odesa to their citizens and leaders nato countries that in general, they know for sure that if russia comes to their territory, their armies will simply run away, i know this from certain people, for example, the danes, the poles will not run , maybe the finns, maybe the lithuanians, maybe the baltics in general , that is, the countries that have already experienced in their stories, russian invasions, one way or another, but the danes, the dutch, the belgians, i don’t have the idea that they can fight

, in principle, they can give weapons to train the same baltics, the same poles, if there is a need for ukrainians, moldovans, georgians, but you gentlemen from the east and of central europe and we, old europe, will not fight because we, well, we are afraid to fight , we will not pass, we are not capable of fighting. what do you think, mr. oleksandr? well, listen, any country that has not yet been attacked hopes that it will not be attacked. will be attacked, this does not mean that if it is attacked, it will not fight. perhaps it will, but each country and each ruling elite will first of all take care of delaying as much as possible the moment when their country becomes a direct participant in the war. unfortunately, such realities are completely understandable from

from the point of view of human psychology and also in general , well, considerations of any national security. yes , we should not count on the fact that the governments of some countries are simply asleep and see themselves as participants in the war already now, this would be naive, so definitely when the war comes in they will defend their home, but they will do everything possible to postpone this moment, we need to understand this , mr. oleksandr, maybe the last question can be a group of questions simply and here in vilnius, everyone is waiting for this vilnius meeting of the nats of all and what are you drawing in your head in your imagination what can happen at the exit, what can nato say in the context of the russian-ukrainian war , well, there are still active negotiations between

the member countries of the alliance about specific proposals, but i think it is quite realistic to expect that nato will say that there will be no more no continuation of the action plans for the acquisition of membership, i.e. ukraine has already fully proven its ability to fulfill the obligations of a member of the alliance, and the program of cooperation can be considered completed, but the moment of the invitation itself and the acquisition of membership, it will not yet be named , for today it cannot be named and in this there is, of course, a certain problem, but it will definitely be a significant step forward when the member states of the alliance recognize that ukraine's path to full membership will no longer lie through a decade

of self-government can you imagine what can be said after the end of the war, then it takes on some kind of concreteness, because it is possible to negotiate with brussels from a position of strength, the war is over, hello, because when this does not happen , it is nothing at all i am sure that we need to fight for this wording. why because if there is such a wording, then it gives russia a clear signal that the war should not end like this, because as soon as it ends, ukraine will be in nato. i think that we still need to look for a slightly different wording or say nothing out loud but know about ourselves thank you very much terms terms terms terms should not be named now we must

be aware of such realities thank you very much oleksandr sushko political scientist international executive director of the international renaissance fund we were talking about the possible entry of ukraine into nato about the difficult difficulties that await ukrainians who aspire to nato on this road. i think that the vast majority of them are now. now there will be a small advertisement. after the advertisement, we will talk about energy with mr. ivan klochkov 20% in pharmacies podorozhnyk vantaoshkad this was me before bleeding gums inflammation of the gums and the solution was so simple problems with the gums plakalyt-active lacalut-active actively overcomes bleeding gums protects against periodontitis

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through the prism of war in the author's projects on espresso weekly saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world vitaly portnikov espresso host and invitations experts based on facts give their assessment and forecast of the development of events, want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club every saturday on espresso again, good health, yes, as i said, ivan plachkov, we will talk about energy, first of all, about nuclear energy, or what is it called, mr. ivan, thank you for finding the time for us, thank you very much, it is always nice to see you, and here is the question when i was young and lively, not the same as now. experts told me that all

nuclear, all nuclear power plants are calculated on the fact that a huge plane can fly into them and they will not have any such catastrophic damage , there might even be an explosion, well, the plane will explode, but there won't be a chain reaction and so on and so on, the question today is whether it is possible to strike like that once. i understand that there is something else you can do to remove the water . well, good day. good health

to everyone . i will say what you said about such a direct hit by an airplane . in such a way that they can withstand the maximum possible blows, but we see that the impact was not external to the kakhov hpp, but was mined, but on the lower part of the dam, and the explosion was from the inner part of the power plant, and there is no longer any project here it is not possible to design a building that would withstand an incredible amount of explosives from the inside, and therefore if

we are now talking about the situation in zapo , he has said many times that it is so alarming, very alarming, it is sometimes she arrives to the critical when, when, uh, the power line is disconnected, the only one that works on its own needs, and i would say that it is really not predicted there, why is it not predicted, because there are russian military there, there are weapons, there are military equipment with uh, weapons with no ammunition and eh we absolutely cannot predict the logic of the occupiers there at the zaporizhzhia nuclear power station, and now we see mr. grossi with his mission. i want

to say that he is performing very important important very important incredibly important i don't know how it wouldn't be uh to demand uh, we wouldn't know, he wouldn't know about the situation at the zaporizhia nuclear plant, and only the mission of the maga- after the first visit said that everything was violated at the zaporizhia nuclear plant seven components that ensure safety, including radiation and constant monitoring of the situation as much as possible. how many opportunities are given to these inspectors of information because it is difficult for them to work there, if we were to orientate ourselves in the situation at the zaporizhzhia

nuclear plant, look at mr. ivan from a very important question, in addition to the zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, other nuclear facilities, they are in principle well, we know what happened in chernobyl , the russians entered chernobyl, but left there, everything else is more or less what you imagine. the situation is normal. we cannot guarantee that they will not be bombed that the same as rivne, but if there is an external one, you say that explosives are placed inside the machine rooms, so that is, an external influence cannot lead to some kind of chain reaction or some kind of nuclear disaster, what i can say is unequivocally no unequivocally no, even if there is massive strike missile bass strike yes there will be damage well this one so hypothetically we say that our anti-aircraft defenses are not working there or here we are if we fantasize with you a massive

missile strike then there will be damage to the buildings , there will be damage to the equipment possible er-er some er- there is some kind of water there or some kind of liquid, but this will be a local situation and if the power transmission lines are damaged , they will release these medogons, which provide water for cooling. in the extreme case , the fuel will melt directly in the reactor. without explosion and in in the holding basins, it is simple and we will come to the point that these and this equipment will not be operational

. in the extreme case, it will be, er, not work capable equipment that we will not be able to put it into operation and it will be a second chernobyl, which we will finance for many years and er, in order to ensure nuclear safety. well, maybe some unique e- these are the radiation moments local, for example, will there be some kind of small area of ​​steam there, and so that there cannot be a large-scale one, and look at one more question, we are constantly talking about it, but i don’t think that it will be an extra time, er, that it will be an extra time.

the month of summer is july. that means it will be autumn again, then winter at this moment . how do you personally assess ukraine's preparation for the new heating season, the new season when more energy, more light, more hot water and so on and the like how well is everything working? there is at least an understanding of what is needed, because if i understand what is needed, then you can already call washington or london or paris and tell us what is needed. give us the situation today. how do you assess it? well, let's start with what we know is destroyed more. 50% of the equipment of the infrastructure is energy

, this and the power units are the main network of substations and so on. and now work is being done on restoration . remained at work for to repair and now this work is being carried out, the power unit is also being taken to the nuclear power station, at the thermal stations for repair, uh, they are being repaired , the power lines are being restored , depending on the availability of transformers. they are not in reserve , they are not lying around, they need to be manufactured somewhere in 6-7 months . which is left, which works for us, works for us, will be

enough to pass next fall the winter maximum is the most important thing for us. if we have a shortage of electricity, we know now that we buy electricity in europe. if we have a surplus, we sell it. that's how we make money on it. well, we need to pay attention and focus on heat supply, if electricity we can buy a surplus unfortunately, we will not be able to transport the heat, so it is very important to restore the central heat energy in the city of kyiv, in the city of kharkiv, here i am so worried that the work is being carried out. not at that level why because these teplokomunenergo enterprises are communal

and it should be financed from the budget of the local cherkassy there, for example, in chernihiv , and how far is the relationship with the central budget, local budgets, this is necessary equipped and so on. for some reason, it seems to me that this work is not funded at the necessary level. and therefore , i would advise you to focus on heat supply, especially on those from the kharkiv chp, the kyiv chp, chernihivskoe , cherkasy, and the district heating networks. once again i say electricity, yes. if there is a shortage, we can buy it. unfortunately, we will not be able to buy heat energy and we may have problems. the last question, look, eh, in private houses there are so-called heat pumps

and they keep some. they don’t provide heating. like batteries , but at least you can live, well, you can't die , you can live, you can't, but such a story is possible for multi-apartment buildings to put a heat pump underground and let it power this building for 100 apartments. automation is necessary, electricity and payback period, none, there is one 10 years ago, it was such a large investment, long-term and very complex technical equipment, i do not see, today

, today, there are opportunities to install heat pumps on a lot of top and so on, i would think that it is necessary to focus on uh , everything exactly on uh, the restored system of centralized heat supply, therefore today the trends in the world, excuse me, mr. ivan - ivan plachkov, minister of fuel and energy , twice minister, chairman of the union council of the all-ukrainian energy assembly was a guest at our place. and now at home, that is, on the espresso tv channel , iryna koval with the news. thank you, mr. mykola.