[000:00:00;00] or maybe i'm guilty, you're innocent, but support is important. i need time to communicate, hugs, we are nearby, there are discounts on fenistil gel 20% in pharmacies. traveller, you and savings. i'm oleksandr sklyar, born and raised in kharkiv, in a city that suffers from russian weapons every day, i know

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by step. shot by shot. attack with attack . together we will liberate ukraine. greetings, friends, this is a worldview program. my name is vasyl zima. for the next 50 minutes, we will talk about nato purgatory or why they do not make special conditions for ukraine to join the north atlantic alliance and leave the same requirements that were relevant for other countries that at one time or another became members of the north atlantic alliance well , i will leave it to our guests who will professionally comment on this issue and tell us more. this is

yevhen magda, executive director of the institute of world politics. i congratulate you glory to ukraine glory to the heroes and oleksandr palii, a historian, a political scientist, they are also the author of a book about nato that i remember reading , well, for example, from the 15th volume, oleksandr , i congratulate you, i just forgot the exact name of the book i have, by the way, at home there is even your autograph, but that was back when they were running around the supreme council with balls , not nato, but some political forces that positioned themselves as very patriotic voted precisely against ukraine being the country of this country or something. what was it about? it was a long time ago that we will talk about it. why did biden set such a condition that there will be no special conditions for ukraine and we should not expect that we will enter nato through some black entrance, we will enter just like everyone else and must be respected e- is compliance with all the procedures that must be followed to become a full member of the north atlantic alliance, but before we start talking about this topic, i

want you to comment on joseph biden's statement that was made today er today was, well, at least we found out here in ukraine, because time is a little different between ukraine and the united states, a statement that has already frightened many people. my friends and relatives say to me too, well, now there will be a nuclear war , all that means now is to flee from ukraine . if this is what biden said about the fact that the use of tactical nuclear weapons is possible, yes . well, what can be used by russia in this war, tactical nuclear weapons? statement it has a certain purpose, it does not always mean that it can happen, that is why it is necessary to look at why he made this statement and tried to somehow explain and reassure, but very often people do not understand what a political statement is, what is not a political statement, what is not always what he says one or another politician, it is so necessary and will happen, that's why i would like you to express your opinion about why

right now joseph biden said this mr. yevgeny, i think there are a number of reasons for this, on the one hand, such a reason is what is possible the united states has received some intelligence about russia's preparation for appropriate actions that may be a consequence. yes, we have yes, yes, the video froze, so then i will ask mr. oleksandr palia, er, to join our conversation and comment on this issue of the use of nuclear weapons, why so the statement was made by joseph baden, why is it scary, you know? well, it is not scary, why does it make us take such statements seriously, because we remember very well how in january 2020, joseph biden said that putin, uh, no, on

february 19, he said that putin passed the decision to attack ukraine and on february 24, he attacked that is why when biden says something, it must always be treated well, at least accordingly and responsibly. alexander , please, because er, russia is cornered , it has no way to restrain er, well, let's say everything restoration of world justice, they have essentially no advantages left except for nuclear weapons, and that is why history for them is developing in such a way that they have only one way out to brandish these nuclear weapons or, in the last resort, use why, in the last resort, because it can be including problematic for russia itself, because the united states has repeatedly made it clear that they will not react to the use of conventional weapons, at least we have heard it

many times, they will use, well, they will react with the use of conventional weapons, that is , roughly speaking, tomahawk missiles, but for russian purposes on the territory of ukraine, and maybe not only if the escalation goes further eh, that’s why eh, you understand the vans of everyone there , putin does not feel sorry for the territory of ukraine if the russian army is there, even destroyed eh, on the territory of ukraine, putin reacts only to personal threats, if there are threats to him personally and his bunker, then it's another story. we must understand that this is an absolutely anti-lyusy government in russia and society in general is the same. so they have no absolutely moral er cautions. well , we have already seen this many er-

cases and they talk about the fact that if there is no russia, then let there be no the whole world, that is, that they will destroy everyone, but it must be said that in reality putin is a coward, and this can be seen from his bunker uh, from this quarantine of his. what kind of quarantine is he in, what does he subject those who come to him, come and so on, that is, if the threat to him is real, then of course the use of nuclear weapons will decrease in probability . i believe that recently, during the last months, maybe hmm, the probability of using nuclear weapons has decreased somewhat due to the fact that the air defenses of ukraine shoot down the russian missiles eh and eh, as

for eh, well, we have seen the strikes on kiev that practically with 100% efficiency, this means that the use of tactical weapons through missiles is correspondingly reduced, and the probability that in the event of an explosion being shot down, there is simply, well, there is a small contamination of vaporizers if such a nuclear missile is shot down in the air, but in russia, well, there are others the means of delivery of tectonic nuclear weapons, including artillery, have not yet learned how to shoot them down, respectively. and of course, it has its many different cautions and many problems for those who use it themselves, but they emphasize it once again

it is possible that we cannot exclude this, it will not give russia victory but it will be well of course it will be dramatic for us, there will be a different story of this war, in fact, then i will also ask you to complete your opinion about well, the same question why did biden say this, how should ukrainians to respond to the statement of the american president regarding the use of tactical nuclear weapons , the risk is quite high now, the first is that the americans obviously have intelligence about the accumulation of explosives in zaporizhzhia npp i think that this is one of the reasons, the second is that an artificial environmental disaster actually took place at the kakhovsky hpp and in fact we had an actual

nuclear explosion. the third is that some er suggest that this is connected with anthony blinken's visit to beijing and this is said to be a signal to start negotiations somehow introduce er into a certain er well, i don't know the component of er reconciliation for ukraine, but i'm not i think that this is a likely scenario. well, the fourth thing is that the combined tripod in such a way emphasizes that russia is criminal, russia acts with criminal methods and this should be resisted as much as possible. ugh. by the way, i will no longer ask about the visit and the results of blinken's visit to china. my colleagues will talk because i want to talk in more detail

about nato and ukraine's chances of getting membership in the north atlantic alliance . jose made a mature statement to biden regarding the possibility of ukraine's chances of joining nato in a different way than all other countries . regarding blinkin's visits to china, one can only repeat the words of joseph biden, who said that the intimate did a good job and the result is, in principle, very positive for ukraine as well. negative for russia, which was actually brought out in parentheses in a conversation between two actual world leaders who agreed to come to an agreement and somehow peacefully coexist in this difficult world . well, now about nato, i will quote a statement that he said yes, can ukraine , does he plan to facilitate ukraine's entry into nato? the american president said no and explained that no, no, because they. that is, we ukrainians have to meet the same standards, so i'm not going to make it easier. i think they've done

everything . to demonstrate the ability to military coordination, but there is a whole problem. is their system safe, is it not corrupt , does it meet all the standards that every other nato country meets? i think it will meet i think it can meet but this was not automatically said by joseph biden, oleksandr. please tell me what threats, risks and non-standards already biden is talking about, and what exactly he said to the ukrainian authorities, you know , by giving such an answer to the dreams of individual politicians that we somehow we will become members of nato once and for all. i think the answer is that the united states is not immediately ready to extend nato security guarantees on the territory of ukraine. well, this is actually the expected

story. there is nothing new here. says that let's say let's wait, let's figure out this issue of non-standards in ukraine, this is a question of the readiness of the united states to intervene directly in this situation, our security proactively and seriously , it is meant with nato guarantees or at least commensurate guarantees that nato will receive . therefore, this issue is not of reforms. well, please tell me. does anyone think that hungary has any better reforms than ukraine or there? well , some countries, for example, on the balkan peninsula and so on, maybe albania and so on. therefore, it is actually a question of what in in the 90s and 2000s, when i, as you said, wrote my book, it was called why ukraine needs nato, then ukrainian politicians

, even those who are now running around with the words nato, at that time they only smiled and when i talk about the fact that ukraine should join nato, they didn't say which nato, so what in general , and so on, but this chance was lost, and now ukraine is for this, for the fact that we had such a post genocidal leadership, and ukraine is paying a very heavy price in blood for that's why the question here is not about our standards, of course, but about what the united states understands that in this case, it will be necessary to use extremely risky tools, perhaps not at once . well, in short, it will be necessary to seriously intervene for ukraine, and not only with weapons and not only

with the supply of weapons. there is a problem in the case of nato expansion, that's why the americans say yes, we give you all the means and which ones you want, maybe not so quickly, yes, slowly , yes, but we do. so you are already there, you will all sort it out yourself, and then when you will deal with the russian invaders, although b on its own territories yes when they will receive such a huge a-a on pizza eh how do they say it in russian ampliuhu yes and then we eh over there in russia the processes will start accordingly internal and we will calmly and joyfully accept you into the composition, then you will be a new member, an honorary member, an honored member we will give you a lot of bonuses, including economic ones, but uh , to directly enter into a conflict with a nuclear

state right now, and to enter into such a conflict directly, that is, through the provision of guarantees to ukraine, the united states has not yet ready, but i think that, frankly, the situation can change at any moment, but now , for example, a demonstration of its super efficiency by the patriots, and it seems to me that it seriously helped us and helped the americans in general, they understood the effectiveness of their anti-missile system and theirs, it is a lot their system is echeloned , it consists of a grassroots level of such peters , then there is hmm, yes, such a tactical system, i am a missile, and then a global anti-missile system, an american strategic anti-missile defense system, and they

understood that if at the grassroots level the patriots have the ability to shoot down the super-duper the best vaunted russian missiles, then, accordingly , the american continent, as of now , is almost not threatened by russia , frankly speaking, especially with the development of american technologies, everything will accelerate, and their their development is not restrained by anything, and russian development is restrained by the poverty of their economy , the inefficiency of their sanctions, therefore, these are two projections that indicate that american efficiency will now increase including the military, and most likely russian . no, and in connection with this, i think that, in principle, some politicians are american and from the republican camp, from the democratic camp, they can say that this is too much, that this policy that is currently being pursued - the administration is indifferent, it is too careful that russia, in principle, no longer poses such a deadly threat to the united states and

it is necessary to punish them more seriously and more strongly, especially since we have seen many times when america behaves decisively with by the russians, all these red lines are blurring and russia is closing in. this is how it was with the red lines that putin drew from the very beginning and told take it away from here. yes, from eastern europe, on the contrary , the americans increased their presence there , including the direct presence of troops american ones are now also in poland, ukraine, the baltic states in romania, and so on, no one went anywhere, contrary to the media , after that there were red lines and where they said that the supplies were there, this is a big red line, then the rebels put up artillery, then tanks, then, missiles, helicopters, himersi, and so on , they went into a frenzy about each of these serious blood, the entry of ukraine into nato is also a red line that would be

blurred, but there is, for sure, you are talking about what we are talking about. i wanted to mr. yevgena, do you know the salaries? i will announce the news that happened five days ago and surprised many that since the beginning of 2023, 653 humanitarian cargoes that passed through customs as humanitarian aid to the military have disappeared in ukraine. i don't mention one story about the dnipropetrovsk eyes, the stories about zaporizhian humanitarian workers , there are wagons, some people got rich... kropyvnytskyi e letovychiv, which was hit by rockets, or they found the person who fired these rockets, he is now behind bars , yesterday he was extended his stay for playing in us, the people of azov are being tried in russia. our heroes are sitting for playing in ukraine, and the military sbu colonels who went to defend

their country from the first days of the war are also behind bars and this is all the united states of america sees, they saw eggs for 17 hryvnias, they see a lot of things and continue to see, and for some reason the ukrainian authorities have the idea that somehow everyone has it close your eyes and that's what bain said about the possibility of building an automatic regime, he also meant that well, he is a politician who has been in politics since the time when volodymyr oleksandrovich was not born and his alter ego is mr. yarmak, he was already a senator then, he went through it all, and when he comes to meetings, he sees a person with incomprehensible duties who is always ahead of the president. well, everyone also understands all this. tell me, mr. yevgeny , please, in your opinion, did biden really send signals to the ukrainian to the authorities and said that friends until you live with european standards and everything that is happening and that which we do not seem to notice , there is no need to dream too much because we know everything, we see everything, we understand everything and

cover yourself with the blood and heroism of people, despite the fact that if everything is normal with you, it will not work out in any way you will not get there , please, you know. it is very similar to that because we strive for a military-political bloc and not just some kind of association and the most powerful military-political bloc in the world, therefore , it is necessary to really meet all standards , especially in the conditions of the largest war in the world at the moment, and this requirement must show that nato is expanding, a witness

, that is, the united states does not want to create a situation in which, in fact, i would say there will be a situation when ukraine is accepted into nato only uh, according to the principle, we are acting against putin . i think it is not quite so . there are no such questions at the moment, but uh. accordingly, we must be a conscious member of the north atlantic alliance which is equal to all others, therefore, in this same context , there cannot be a situation when the fifth article of nato on collective security does not work in relation to ukraine. as some of our high-ranking officials suggested that you accept us, but say that the fifth article of nato

does not work. it cannot be. unfortunately, it will undermine the positions of the representatives of the north atlantic alliance. biden has a large-scale perspective regarding ukraine, and he cannot afford to pretend that he does not know where it is on the map, so he will act as actively as possible and take steps that aimed at increasing ukraine's chances of becoming a member of the north atlantic alliance. accordingly , i would like to remind you that next year the nato summit will be held in washington, and in november next year there will be presidential elections in which joseph biden plans to participate in, and i personally do not rule out that biden will change his position and correct it if

his sociology. his political advisers will say that ukraine's accession to nato is in the interests of the united states by the middle of 2024. there may still be such a situation, but it is not necessary to forget that our relations with the north atlantic alliance are very reminiscent of a tale of lost time and we should not complain about biden today, which he is not good at, not to ask him biden why we are not in nato must carry out measures to demonstrate the internal strength of our state because the war continues and regardless of what guarantees we will receive, we must be sure that we can achieve many things and we can see it, and let's not forget that the strongest army in europe, which na today's moment has become ukrainian

, it causes not only admiration, it also causes concern in some people due to the fact that not everyone understands how the largest army in europe, which is managed by a political leadership with authoritarian tendencies, will act - this is true a significant challenge and it is necessary to look at it , we will now break into a very short pause and then continue our conversation, so viewers, stay with us. nato or a part or nato i remember all these infantile political childish statements of president zelenskyi regarding the start of a full-scale invasion that biden why are we not in nato with the same as you know in our country she was friends with alcoholics somewhere over there in school i went and i need to get it - i got a certificate with twos and threes and says why i am not at the university, well, it is basically the same

story but this political immaturity remains because, for some reason, everyone thinks that we should somehow know something like that well, a little uh take the sick person somewhere and already. let him be there. let's protect him and don't fail to understand our responsibility. that's why, oleksandr, i turned to you. i want you to very briefly remind our viewers why we are not in nato, and it is possible to remind them of those key votes. decisions or lack of decisions by ukrainian politics, first of all, and the verkhovna rada, let me remind you of the verkhovna rada, elected by ukrainian citizens, which generally ignored the prospects of the movement towards the north atlantic alliance, perhaps the president was also ignored, because everyone always talks about the bukharet themselves in 2008 and say that well then merkel then bush putin then said that george is a ukrainian, not even a state, and so on. and they didn’t take us . well, but here you have to look at your own responsibility, so if you can briefly but in essence why or for what reasons, own reasons or because of your own lack of certain decisions, ukraine is not in nato, please er, well, the reason

er is that we had a post genocidal political elite that er robbed the country for decades, people cheered for one team or another, sometimes even pro-russian , many people voted for pro-russian politicians, and thus putting the country under a huge threat, i remember how 17% of ukraine advocated joining nato too much. and it was long enough 17 18 21 and so on and so on that is it was very difficult to convince our people uh and the reason to things and because the people did not know the history, they simply did not know the history of who russia is and what russia is because russia is not at all what they say and tell about themselves , in fact, everything is completely different, radically different

. eh lived with eh such corrupt various ideas there to trade somewhere there something eh some eh economic benefits to put in your pocket and think that nothing has ended please look now in donbass at the results of all this in the territory of the city of bakhmut ot and mariupol and at the factory in bakhmutiv and mariupol about the results of their economic cooperation. i think that these politicians have already looked at it. and that it is possible that some people only understood something late, and here it is, and people, too. well, you understand, citizens. i don't think that they didn't know this, because in principle, citizens everywhere, er, they form a general picture for them, the responsible