[000:00:00;00] are developing but are absolutely coming the ministry of defense of russia prigozhin is handsome further declares the minister of defense shoigu specially arrived in rostov to carry out operations to destroy the wagner anti-tank missile system he uses artillery and helicopters in the dark to hit our positions well, the last beauty is that we already have 25,000 we are going to find out why in ukraine lawlessness is being committed, this looks like the beginning of a civil war between the power blocs that have been created, what are you, friends? well, i would like us to remove this definition of a civil war for russia, there will not be one in principle because it is necessary to understand the context of the civil war, i did not accidentally mention the 17th year in the pause, but the beginning of the year, not the end, but the february revolution, then it outgrew the civil war later, but the beginning of the process was a revolution, it may be a revolution, but it is not a fact, why i tell you not a fact because the fate of the parishioner in my

opinion has been decided a long time ago, he is just, well, excuse me for this word, it is russian, not zhlets, yes, on this planet, he understands it perfectly, his rhetoric , the actions he is using now , the statements he is resorting to, i do not rule out that it could be a typical fake, you understand, yes, they are aimed at raising their weight and showing that i cannot be destroyed, because i am her public publicity, he has a fuse to save his life, i have great doubts that he now has 25,000 of these travelers at his disposal. pay attention to one of his interviews where he said that his staff was destroyed by 170%. that is , it has already been destroyed several times , this is only what he says publicly. we remember last year when we came to ukraine. were actively used to destroy virtually all of his groups of the wagner pvc. then in the east of ukraine , he began to recover already in august. and this is definitely not putin, in my understanding, she

is personally and not close, maybe the fsb here , you can build different versions, uh, different, it may mean the beginning of some really military coup in russia, but it is not a civil one the war there is no one to fight against, no one in russia had a group that would have enough, the russians stand alone, there is nothing, it is their internal showdown, the radical legion of freedom of russia but again, they just simulate the situation, but by and large they cannot influence the formation of the war itself as such there may be a confrontation between individual groups, even armed ones, but who said well, and who counted how many wagnerites were left with wagner well , really, we really, i say again, we don’t know about 25,000, you can say anything, it’s they shake their heads and say now i will come all over there, i will turn over in the snow on my head, but of course the process is very pleasant for us, all this is a plus, i congratulate you, but it didn’t

happen just like that. it is necessary to say it like this, and what kind of abomination is this, but he accused shoigu of the fact that they attacked ukraine for nothing , literally yesterday evening, this statement was so. that is, he was the first to strike the match. he says that they attacked ukraine for nothing. n- they are fighting the wrong war, he says this, he emphasizes the fact that ukraine must be destroyed, but that he cannot do it, let me do it there, that is how the rhetoric sounds. that is, there is a banal struggle for power and enrichment today for a certain circle of politicians, e.e. financiers of the military in russia this is the face of the future government, no matter how paradoxical it may sound, but in russia, the one who served time for raping a neighbor robbed a store is an authority, he is a cool guy he speaks the way he needs to why shouldn't he be the face of the next government, this is an option

he is also considering e reductions for this mission, a very suitable figure announced a military coup in the country and you from the civilian population to stay at home not to panic and we services not to interfere with the actions of mercenaries, but i am watching the guards unit to raise the alarm and the ministry of defense of russia is preparing an urgent appeal right away in the comments, our people are already laughing that shoygu will tell how he handed over the shells to prigozhin. do you think they will blow through and everything will end quietly and quickly? could this be the beginning of a great split in russia? well, i just don’t know, honestly, it’s difficult for me not even a fake, not a fake, not even a supposition, because it’s uh, fakes, it’s also good news, because our yes probiddissy and y-y and electronic war, yes, too, has a victory, the question is in the other, that’s how i analyze yes, uh, the conflicts that

there it happens, they happen in such a way that they strengthen putin, because no matter how someone grows up, the enemies are war , etc. and er, i save it, it is shown in the system as my own, but not in europe or asia . it doesn't happen because the people there can't have a civil war because there are no citizens , yes, yes, and just to this people, yes, we change it anyway , or they left us today, if you look , god forbid that internal processes, yes

at the end of the unrest that is happening, but i don't believe in the possibility of action from the province yes, in the system 20-25 thousand and so on and so on well, let's not do this incident there, a few people are needed to cover the entire railway and the road along which drunken sailors from kronstadt cannot choose one day, i went there in which they were crushed. you have them . you have them. here in moscow, and they are also several hundred meters

away from moscow. in order to restore control over the territory you lost, how long did the russians restore control over pshemekina, what is it called now, yes, jokingly, after it turns out that the poles captured it, well, they tell them. will seize power, the beautiful question is whether the central government will be able to remove any regional or even local losses of legality, legitimacy, there is one problem that many people articulate but do not understand, the terrible russian rebellion бессмысленный безпощадной everyone knows this phrase but not everyone understands and why are there always russian riots that's what it is and because in order for this riot to be not a riot but a revolution, for example or something else, it must be carried out by political subjects, that is, there must be

some political institutions that try to formalize discontent into a certain structure , and since it usually happens with them, you just know, that's how it exploded sporadically and that's it and that's it and the forest fire is on and on, already in the course of the fire, something can be organized valery said: yes, when we talk about the russian revolution, because people who studied in other schools remember that there are three russian revolutions, we remember the february and october revolutions of 1995, that is , 12 years passed before the october revolution, yes, that is, in the process what yes, that is, every su of legal and legitimate instruments of transfer of power or determination of who is in power is a chinese-japanese saying that in the case of defeat, it is the rebels, and in the case of victory, it is the government troops, well, you understand when only you face a situation when no longer you can

to say where is the government and where are the rebels? well, actually speaking, everything is decided that the winner on the battlefield becomes the face of a completely new one. well, this is even more of a threat. therefore, it is necessary to understand that when they will waver now, the question is not whether prigozhyn will reach moscow, the question is that many people now allow that the situation may go away now in two years , first, if they tame, let's say, this riot , and putin will show who is the master and friend in the house, if it will be profitable for putin, how to distribute and rule, yes, yes, putin directs all of this the scenarios are now certain now, but i really remember the movie house of cards and president underwood, who when he was already losing there he said that it is necessary to create chaos in the country, yes it is the temptation is great and really worse than bad power, only the lack of power and here i agree with what he said peter with the fact that it is really possible

to produce chaos and then people will grab any power even if it is so bad putin's regime but there is one problem chaos a priori is not controllable well and in order to produce chaos you also need to be high enough organizational potential to have because er he and it is not about the current and it is not about the current russia what next he moment one moment there is support for the war and 85% well, i would treat the results of the community of russia with great caution . well, in principle, such a concept rather thankless, but i will remind you that there are two uh organized groups, what are the caravals about, if they should be. yes , they are the rdk and the legion of freedom of russia, which began their active activities on the territory of russia when, after the g7 summit, the lipetsk summit

of the league of arab states and the summit china-central asia, you will say it is a coincidence, but i think that it is not, because it is not a russian project for me, well, at least as one of the options for the development of events and the fact that it can end with benefit for us, i do not exclude the question of how we can use it. but it is already being used e- how can it be used, i think, first of all, there will be a question, there is a place, yes, there are acts that the battalion is russian, and here, in short, it can be done in a better way to return to the times of the domestic war, in short, it will be possible imagine a system in which local or military groups or local feudal lords throughout the entire

territory, yes, they will begin to ruin the country. and this has taken such a form that they will simply stop sending money to moscow, and even in this way , the system is being destroyed, and it is creating its own. that's basically what we really want, valentina no, well, we also want this process to take place as safely as possible, and i think we want to minimize the risks that may arise because we talked about the demilitarization of russia and about the nuclearization of russia and about many other things. because the question is not just what is russia or is it the same bad story, but it is clear that the date is so predicted and that it will take its place is a debatable question. we have also discussed with you repeatedly that china is afraid of strengthening its opponents at the expense of russia the states are afraid of the strengthening of china at the expense of russia. they have to agree on this issue among themselves. all the talk

is that putin wants to talk to his father. yes , putin wants to talk to biden, but the problem is that even if you don't forget, no talk to him, he can't do anything because baidy is not the only subject who can determine this issue, but people are imprisoned like putin by putin's regime , yes. they think that there is a decision-making center. i am sure that they will not crawl out of the whole story without external help. well, that is, someone has to give a shortcut to the direction . that is, they need now khan baty, who in this princely person will say it, a shortcut to the e-e board, you will have it, so count in london so very calmly talked about others or to ukraine, even against the background of repeated statements about nuclear blackmail by putin, you joined together , so i will say the last drop, so we are so

beautiful for a joint coup - this is a march of justice. well, this is what i want in this connection in front of us and say finally equality that is surprising here introduce the guests and we will conclude especially on valery glykh , political scientist piotr kulpa, director of programs of the school of the minister of kyiv economy, state administration valery klochok, political scientist, head of the center of public analytics tower, gentlemen, thank you very much for such an interesting conversation, you see that this good news is on facebook. thank you, friends . take care of yourself and ukraine, yes, it was ukraine 1+1. the national telethon continues at this time. we are working in the format of a discussion platform. we have chosen

today for our conversation , it has already been discussed several times on our broadcast. she was chosen and you will be working in the studio maria vasylivna and i and the hungarian oksana korolevych are with us in the studio family and systems psychologist thank you for visiting us, congratulations so ms. oksana let's move on to our topic, which is actually a little deeper than these manifestations which we see in social networks, some memes in some of our discussions, sometimes too harsh and too inflammatory, how does this traumatic story affect us, because each of us experiences it in our own way and each of us has our own experience

, someone has no home, someone's relatives were killed someone can no longer simply return to the life he had. in addition, this is actually such a revealing story. the story about this shark, which everyone has already discussed many times, of course, but it is just such a vivid illustration of what is happening now with people with their psyche because on the one hand it is possible, a person who lived or rested in another country should not do anything. but he was a russian and people reacted like this with memes, mockery, various mockery, jokes, and so on. is this normal? society divided into another while discussing this event, someone began to say that one camp began to speak, the super class began to register petitions that let 's erect monuments to the shark, er, someone began to say that i'm sorry, we are already repeating the behavior of the russians so much that

we are turning into them, discussing and rejoicing because a man was eaten by a shark and we have already started talking not even about the fact of the event , but starting to discuss each other, yes, how do ukrainians react to this correctly or incorrectly well, first of all, we are talking outside the black , that is, moralizers, i am for a healthy experience yes which one should we get? when we can process this stress. well, what is a trauma ? let me start with some concepts in order for us to speak correctly, because what is happening now is not a trauma, it is a different level of stress, what if we cannot process it the brain will turn into a trauma or an experience or a force with which we then grow it, yes, that is, the psyche is rebuilt, it grows, the child grows, and it constantly comes into contact with something that is stressful for it, its stress is stressful yes, it is

one hundred percent and yes we as a country now we ah we still have to give ourselves now gather all our strength to rely on our heritage , strong, not funny , not that kind, good and cool. they are so homely in the hospital, no one said that they are warriors, and now the whole world is saying, god, is that so , they are russians, and they are strong, that is, now the separation took place, they saw us. yes, i want to comment a little on what you said about the camp. yes, what is the world like? our dual we constantly or white or black or right wrong or if not so so are you a shark or

not ? it is very important to react, this is all a manifestation of reaction in us , it has not yet happened and will not happen for a very long time, this compensation is internal , what is justice? because in this way, the childish part of us will say so, well, there is no such thing, and what does not win , well, unfortunately, yes, there is such a childish constant our expectation that the world is like that, and it is not good and not bad, it is all a dream, it is just real, i will give it now, so what don't look like that now it will be and i'm watching your children's part this is how the glasses open the capsules yes, look, well, this is a story about

justice - it lies in our children 's part when we grow up we want to believe that the world is like that, some fantasized like that where it is correct and it is integral in which there is both this and that and that is about our attitude to how we will communicate with this here about the intention here is your intention it is evil thoughts you have either good or evil this is what is attributed to those who and by the way, i'm just commenting once again on what you just said in a cool way about our world, which has this duality in our brains about the kind of justice that we expect all the time. well, we really want you to just hear what people are saying already they will order, please tell me what is her wife telling her? exactly, they should all be punished, give us vera, that is, because otherwise the brain can't argue, why

, in order to digest this stress and not turn it into an injury, we have to rely on something, and that's why i want to talk a little bit. today we talked about talking about the topic of trauma, this is very close to me because i work with systemic processes , traumatic, transitional trauma . it was er worked out we just now have to win not for today about us today and for all those times when we ukrainians were forced to constantly fight for ourselves all this time and it doesn't matter from which side we were approached, you just remember from any parties, whoever enters the knee, and only now we are born as a mature, conscious nation that will now kneel and then for some time will also

show, you know how to affirm and show by actions that we are so conscious that we do not kneel because we know how to be sacrificial good people, as everyone expects us to sign some kind of agreement, you are not for peace, and there are all these manipulations with our sacrifice, but i am so glad that it is almost over. black humor as therapy is a healthy way. see everything that is it gives society an opportunity now, and by the way, humor is what we bombed the first yes explosions in our country . two hours later we were already writing memes . they couldn't do something it was enough for them, they seemed to fight, then something was missing and they were brought to their knees. and now we are taking all this experience. what dna we have, it is rising. we saw for the first time

that we are here. that we are not almost warriors in the sense that we are just we wash, we can sing, we can cook borscht, no, it was a discovery for many that ukrainians are a warlike nation, and people began to find out that it turns out that the cossacks are from the beginning . howl, yes, they didn’t study it. well, why were they hired for the battle and the cossacks were that force, yes, all over the world how was the so-called pvc? yes, what many of us could have discovered. and by the way, here it is. i would like to say what is a mature person, is it different? it is a mature person . it is a state, yes, a psychological state. it takes, yes, it is on the reconstruction of the mature part, the clarity of understanding and the awareness of decision-making, the responsibility that we do not want someone, we ourselves have to become responsible for ourselves for our actions, for our decisions made

or non-decision making, everything is different, but a mature person is different in that she relies on herself and not on someone. she has a resource. she can make decisions and be responsible for it. a mature person has an accurate understanding of her activity and what such a mature person is, a mature person who relies on women becomes mature when at one point when they have an animus based on the male part inside is not mature and then i can say no say stop yes and torture myself to defend can do it not only say god where is my husband and she can do it yes and men pass own the initiation of the masculine is now taking place collectively, now uh, subconsciously, everything is in transformation, we are now being born , we are now in such a stage of such a very difficult powerful period, it is difficult for us, and that is why when a woman gives birth in a powerful period, she is already at the bottom, the aortic

is no longer working, she no longer listens to the doctors and that it helps her to listen to herself, that is why at this moment i say to all people, listen to yourself. if it is very difficult for you to do some process there, help yourself to turn this uh, this stress is not into trauma , but into such reclining by force, this is what gives you it is important to listen to myself, what am i now, what my body wants, where is my resource , what can i do for myself. will you take care, you have already started our conversation in the format of how people start listening and hearing themselves yes, and how to dig for ourselves, but we are constantly under this external pressure of such phenomena as, well, as i already said, unpopularity yes, they tell us that look at yourself, you already are

you become like a russian and people begin to think: am i really becoming the same russian who wants blood and who is ready to kill civilians and when i am happy well, i will say for myself two weeks ago when there was a powerful night attack on kyiv in the morning when we stayed up all night, you open the internet in the morning and you see drones flying over moscow, and i was frankly happy, i was happy because drones are flying over moscow , yes, i felt real pleasure from this phenomenon. there is no of the military and with the same shark yes and this is what we have now after a year and a half of war, this element of foxtrot and uh is dealing with change and this issue because it is exactly the manipulation and occurrence of this aggressive healthy part of us that can say no when

a rapist approaches to a woman, what does she have to say to be a human being at this moment, we are now ukraine , which everyone is raping with their silence , we sympathize with their new ones and we will see what happens . yes, there are many things. and then it is such a psychological rape when a person calmly reacts to defending himself at least with thoughts, at least with something, because there is no such thing, a group of people in white coats comes out, they say one hundred percent because you are yourself, an emotion . how should you feel? politicians, bloggers, uh, audience , and they say, well, look at yourself now, when you are happy about all this, you are now not people and super i'll tell you, those russians who filmed it on video were not human beings, not us when we watched

it , but the person who filmed it, what was russia and also commented, the person who just watched observed how it was happening. this man who was uh who ate means that he had breakfast or something like a shark yes, by the way, what did he say before that about the explosions and everything well, that is, how is this karma in action literally after 30 minutes, that is, they already released the video that he filmed there, but this it's not about that right now. it's about the fact that there is stress for us right now, that the russians are the triggers, in principle, blow it into the triggers there , the bombs are the triggers, that is, the sounds. what kind of triggers are these ? that is, we should know about ourselves now that we are a little bit toxic in our reactions, it is greater than it could be in peacetime. well, because we are in state of war, i really ask that people hear this, it is a natural healthy reaction process of the nervous system protection in moments

of unhealthy reaction to human conditions, that is, they are not humane conditions, when we talk about war, this is unhealthy communication with us, then at this moment we have to raise our whole animal part i don't think leo will react calmly when his boundaries are violated . someone will approach him in the pride. i think no one will be there. to manipulate these humanity is inappropriate now, in principle, we will still want a lot of emotional compensation, and i will say i am two my husband died, my children in the war , he is an officer, what about my children are russians what do you think, well, everything, well, it’s just global evil and when something is happening now, when i was sirena, my younger child told me, maybe they are telling us that they are being bombed there. that is, she

is already starting to defend herself with fantasies that , well, it is normal, and maybe it will be. maybe it is that they are being bombed by our well, that is, right away i would like to ask further. and in what condition will we come out of this war, if it continues with us, will we be able to come out of this tension at all? let's talk about this later. a short break for a few minutes. we will return to this