[000:00:00;00] for you, join the community with a ukrainian view of the world, become a sponsor of the espresso youtube channel, and this is access to exclusive content, personal thanks, fixed comments , special icons there, the possibility of personal communication with the espresso team, click sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian view, valery chaliy diplomat , extraordinary plenipotentiary ambassador of ukraine in the usa in 2015-19, as a guest in the saturday field program, they dug valeria good evening greetings to ukraine i remember how it was in 1991 western leaders looked with some surprise at how the kamensky union was collapsing, a house of cards, and even more so, the communist party of the soviet union, literally in a country where everything seemed to be in the hands of mikhail gorbachev, at least in moscow, and

suddenly he was isolated somewhere in the foros, they said that he was in bad shape there tonight in the morning we saw at night we saw vladimir putin's greetings for youth day and in the morning i saw a completely different-looking putin who no longer congratulated anyone on youth day but congratulated someone on prigozhin day and what do you think as a western leader in general now look at all of this. by the way, the fact that you gave an example of the suddenness of some events is not very good news, because in dictatorial and closed societies, a lot of things happen so that later well, we simply cannot analyze correctly. i think that such a situation persists even now and we don't know what kind of information they don't know in the west . well, i watched today the western media, the western channels, eh, it clearly talks about the russian

crisis, the way, eh, the words are already clearly used by everyone, the correct ones sound civil war in russia well, the main topic is the same as before, it was all discussed at the time of the collapse of the soviet union, control over weapons of mass destruction, that's what worries everyone in the first place and we must come out of this understanding two things, first, we still don't know the ending of this story and secondly, unfortunately, this concern is so much that i had an emotional question here: where are the african peacekeepers , where is the brazilian president, where are the african peacekeepers , they still have the wagner group in africa. adapted

i have personal acquaintances in these countries, so you were just in moscow, but where is your peacemaking, mediation, where, in the end , is the pope, where is the union of a chechen girl with an ex, as i know, an abandoned russian woman with a father who is a russian girl, so where are the eyes? all are beautiful, this is the cycle for ukraine, so that ukraine capitulates, you apply it all, well, that is, yes, excuse the emotions, but what is happening in russia, of course, in my opinion, is not yet the final story, it is the beginning of such bursts of external processes that are inside they are boiling over, but i emphasize once again that we do not fully understand the extent to which these or other problems have reached their end, why this has happened now because, er, inside russia

, the police regime has weakened, its main goal is invading places on the territory of ukraine. putin did this stupid and as a result weakened the protection of the police state there that's all and it's actually two groups fighting, say the hawks of the head yes well, two groups of hawks are fighting for power and how much this shows about the changes in russia i can say i will only say about the change only if i see it the national movement in the same yakutia that declared its sovereignty in 1991, do you remember the panel that that parade of sovereignty was not only started by the russians, in the end the russians were the first to declare independence , but sahaye kutya also declared the tatarstan emphasized that is, if i see these manifestations in this situation, then i can say that

something is really happening there, like the processes of the soviet union, so far, it is different that biden discussed the situation in russia with macron's scholz and sunak, they confirmed their unwavering support of ukraine to valery, and western leaders could now somehow use the situation of putin's weakening and put pressure on him to end the russian -ukrainian war and force him to sit down at the negotiating table. in moscow , and i think that it is worth at least thinking now about the control over the storage of tactical nuclear weapons, because in fact the situation here is such that the government is waging war, which seemed

so consolidated and confident. and now it you can see how it all adds up and the question arises how to ensure, well, in the west, the question arises how to ensure control over the weapons of mass destruction that they allowed russia to keep after the collapse of the soviet union, so i think that they are primarily talking about this , well, and secondly, of course, in this situation well, i think that tomorrow there will be such calls to show both sides of the civil war in russia, or whatever they will call it, peace, tolerance does not allow escalation, that is, to adhere to the rules well, in general, try to behave tolerantly well, how did we appeal to putin in ukraine? in the end, after a year, we realized that there were very few appeals, so if you don’t take advantage of this situation, i think that this

episode is more important. these are really criminal actions of putin lavrovy, who is confused and is now running here and there, that is and others, well, they are the same criminals, what a beauty, that putin and they have to look for them there, i was talking about intermediaries, but they have intermediaries there, they are thieves in law in russia, who can mediate something between them, one mafia, another mafia, and we need to understand that russia's war against ukraine is still continuing. this is a key threat, not what is happening in russia now. well, on the other hand, there is such a rather important question: how much, in principle, can it now be assumed that political processes in russia can proceed according to the patterns of 1991 in the last year, the political struggle in russia may be a real political struggle in russia, it is a struggle between the state, this new horizontal, in the end, russia suffered

much more serious losses than the collapse of the soviet union when they fought horizontally with the state apparatus during the time of ivan the terrible or in the time of peter the great, do you remember this famous picture of the morning of the rifle execution when peter looks at the destroyed riflemen. he defeated these riflemen, they were ordinary in essence wagnerians, only of a different type with the help of the regular army, but not even his own, but the ukrainian army of hetman ivan mazepy well, here are some beautiful examples of what is happening, that's why putin got confused, he ran, you see , such an ego is ringing in kazakhstan, lukashenko in belarus , give it, well, in essence, he wants to be given support, that is, you understand, he does not withdraw

he does not return the troops from ukraine, even there the units that could really counteract the defense of moscow. he asks for help from the outside , that is, what does he think that he can sit on the two sisters' chairs and make an external expansion or war and defend himself internally. i think that he is wrong, that is, he is seriously mistaken, but in my opinion it will not be a repeat of the year 91 , although in many ways i remember those times, i remember how the army actually sat in the barracks and watched, er, this performance swan lake that is, a lot depends on how the real players will play in this situation, that is, who rearranges all these chess pieces on the chessboard in russia, that is, everything can happen. it is possible

that chapaev will be played and badak will be around for a long time, but they can simply make a coup, as it happened in the end- the rest in the 17th year, that is, there was a real coup that was carried out and the bolsheviks seized power without having any huge advantages there, so that russia passed this is all the points in its history and it is rather at 91.17 and who can really help putin, after all, kai which you just mentioned as an ally in the dkb said that these are russia’s internal problems, that is, he does not agree to help. putin also called the leader of uzbekistan, as if there was no answer, and he also allegedly spoke with erdogan , just as the russian media wrote that istanbul is ready to help russia, but how true is it that we we also do not know about eduan. do you think he will help russia or is it too much for him? it is dangerous for him to worsen relations with

the west. well, on the one hand, the statement of the president of turkey that no one should take advantage with this situation, why listen? well, it is cynical towards the ukrainians, what does it mean not to take advantage of this situation? rpg should tell putin to take the troops from ukraine and let them defend there. you have 300,000 standing wagner institute is not a threat to such troops, but convenient of course those who remained there, yes, they are afraid that they will not hold back, that's why i think that this approach annoys me, it is so peace-making on the one hand, and on the other hand, no one should take advantage of these statements , that is, we must not just use them, we must simply put the question to putin right now

you control your country in general, you control the situation, you control the nuclear weapons, who are you threatening, i have weapons, and you are afraid, you have flown away, you are running away from some kind of criminal gangs, criminal groups , they have released everyone from prison, now you are running away, so he needs to ask questions and china needs to ask questions volodya, who are you? are you still in charge of the district? have you already lost everything , that is? listen, psibling, well, it’s not. this episode showed that it’s all a circle on clay stands. that is, it’s all clear, but here not included in any way, people are not included in this processor, that is, the police state, dictatorship and monopoly power leads to the fact that people are simply observers of these processes, they do not participate, there is no civil society in russia, and this is the big problem of such countries, because this is exactly what is happening in them instigate coups and with whom in general

ertygan is not semen mogilevich. he cannot be an intermediary between criminality of one criminality and another . support why is it now necessary to ask the wrong question now you need to drink to attack eh how to control your destruction in russia that is, of course it is so but i will say that when they say that it is possible with putin, what will happen to this group and nothing like that and the same the group completely split into two camps, and they didn’t even split according to departments, the kgbf , the fsb, or counter-intelligence, just against the e military . there are just several different groups . well, they are now fighting for power, and their

people are in all structures, yes what probably the russians are already traditionally just watching parties , they no longer react in any way, but in the given conditions, the question must be asked . for example, why is the question not being asked right now, the russian occupiers are standing at the nuclear facility of ukraine , the zaporizhzhia station, who is he giving orders , now who is commanding them, who is commanding them, blow up what have they planted explosives or are they detonating, this is alarming, and i said about such a scenario earlier that a situation may arise when they themselves will not fully control all their movements and this chaos is a certain threat, but

this chaos should not be leveled at the expense of putin's support , on the contrary, it should be an ideal version of the whole scene. the fact that russian society does not take part in these events, but they are in the events that in 17th year it did not take part in at least in november 17th year, when the bolsheviks came to power, people were witnesses, and in 91st year, a group of people which came out to the white house, indeed, and which the army could not disperse, but for the most part the whole of russia , she was silent , sat to herself and watched tv, there were none in the regions except st. petersburg. er, i mean at the moment the point that mr. valery, we know the people who took part in political events by the back of our fingers. by the way, one of them was vladimir putin, he was at a rally in st. petersburg. here he was a representative of an active

part of society, but such people can it was easy to count. well, if you look further at the events, even these are all the speeches under the white house, well, the government. yes, according to the government building. after all, there were dozens of people and tanks, and they were very severe with heavy weapons, crushing peaceful muscovites. that is, we remember let's talk about syrovyken personally crushed by russia on a tank, that is, now the story is just a pomeranian, he is coming back, and after all, there were more than a dozen people there, some of them paid for it with their lives, er, those people who stopped the tanks, a few famous names, and after that, that's why no, there there was such a civic movement, uh, now it is unlikely to even be of such a size because the situation is much well , russia has already been cleaned so much of an active civic position that they will simply be observed here, but for

the wagnerites well, that's what we call barbarians by the way, i want to eventually- finally , we will see real people from this camp, they will appear very quickly, i think in the next few days, and by the way, about nuclear weapons, we heard a statement that one of the closest associates of prigozhin utkin seems to have planned an operation to seize nuclear storage facilities means that the wagnerites are aiming for this. imagine that the adviser to the president of biden , salev, and you say, you know, he is not going to seize a nuclear storage facility. on this ducks on the plan to capture the nuclear storage facilities that was handed over to you by the central intelligence management of satellites and pictures of where, er, wagner's columns are moving, and here, along this route, the nuclear storage facility is drawn

what did you do? there was already such a situation, and you know that when you were going, there was a group there in belgorod, there was a storage facility for the ambulance, in principle , there is a line between washington and moscow and in moscow, i think washington is still being assured that everything is under control. so, to be honest, i don't even think that this is the main threat, and i think that it is a hyperfor- hypertrophied one here. that now something will get, uh, directly to the rebels, nuclear weapons. i think that it will be spun on the contrary in order to continue blackmailing ukraine, that is, and arelia other realities that everything will be solved with no non-nuclear weapons, everything will be solved simply with a convoy of cars and the readiness, er, you are the guards there who have sworn an oath to putin. well

, the leader is also the readiness to support them for putin. i am not sure that there are many people in moscow who are ready to die for putin, well putin looked confident to you. when he made this statement to the citizens in the morning, it is still an unprecedented story when he is forced to address the citizens in connection with the rebellions of his own country . well, i would say. when was the last time this happened and when there were chechen wars for sure, but even then he was, i don’t know, bezslannordoz then he didn’t apply either. it seems to me that he looked terrible then and in the end, everyone later testifies to his confusion. that is, it is obvious when he was like that, i don’t even remember when he he was like that, that is, i think that there are people playing against him who are very knowledgeable about the situation and

i am sure that i am sure that it is these people who are the screenwriters of this whole story. of historical events of such transitions, er, precisely because of that. well, in 1991, or there were events in other countries of the former ussr. because here er, serious weapons were used by the rebels. that is, these are tanks, these are anti-aircraft systems, these are things that never happened to those who spoke there in the opposition, that is, this is not the specifics of today's moment , mr. valery. we thank you very much for joining our team. and we

move on to our next guest the general secretary of the thelem parliamentary human rights commission is in touch. good evening. thank you very much for inviting me. so let's start with the main foreign policy event of these days. this is the visit of the secretary of state of the united states to the people's republic of china. what conclusions can be drawn for taiwan from this visit , of course, to interpret blinkin's visit to beijing , he is such a devolition, we have to understand what this scythian followers actually read

, because it was really important to focus on how the future relations between china and the usa will unfold, it is clear that there are no such agreements reached, they held negotiations for many hours, it was actually a solid criticism , then i had a private meeting with damn cinema, and on the same day when blinken returned to the usa, he called everyone a zempin a dictator that is, we understand that now the usa is demonstrating its strength against china . of course, i am sure that ukraine was on the agenda and there was an opportunity to hear

the rhetoric of china's opinion regarding ukraine, and we also understand that uh, it was not left without attention question: yes, ivan, we know what kind of support can be given to the united states and ivan, they say that they do not support taiwanese independence, but they do not consider taiwan as a matter of internal politics and china, that is, it is not about the status quo, but i want to say something, i think that everyone will agree a powerful message was conveyed that is an auxiliary factor for peace to remain in taiwan , and if this message was strong enough for

putin, then this is a very big achievement china-us relations influence what xinping was called a dictator. what do you think? this was part of the message. and in general, the fact that blinke’s visit is necessary. opa kino. last year, when nancy poloxi arrived in taiwan, then joe baide repeatedly said that if china dares to invade taiwan, then , accordingly, there will be terrible consequences, that is, the usa

moved in such a position, when it is necessary to speak clearly and without terminology to dictators. we will not be able to give taiwan if china tries to solve the taiwan question by military means ecological military and achievements and ivan and taiwan already also with the help of taiwan- with the help of the usa we have already switched to military rails , we can say that there is already a strong financial support for the defense sector and ivan and in fact now we we are already preparing and the usa is already helping us and this is a strong message for the people of taiwan for the fact that the americans support us. if we let putin keep crimea,

it will be a signal for other aggressors in particular it is about the situation around taiwan, this was stated by former nato secretary general anders rasmus. what do you think of these two parallels? would you draw them in this way or not? is it possible to draw such a parallel ? i would like to use this opportunity to say that you can eat, they are expressing their solidarity with ukraine and we we actually want to do everything we can in order to form closer relations with ukrainians, and this is to help ukraine stand up and i am sure that such clear messages should be sent to people like putin - these people are crazy and so am i i think that ukrainians can really be united together with us together with

other partners. and from the point of view of taiwan , the strengthening of relations between the united states and ivaniv is also sending a clear message to ukrainians that democracy is holding fast, they are strong and they are not giving up, and that is why i want to assure ukrainians, what are you and i, taiwanese, firmly say this? if we talk about the future elections in taiwan , there is talk now that china may interfere in these elections. if you actually want to vote for the beijing political party , then there is less chance that there will be a war, but the problem is that china has already lost trust and ivantsi, because we

can see it, and in hong kong you have those people. and i want to say that of course there will be such people. in taiwan who really want to avoid war and that is why they will decide to vote for the chinese park and call it the kyiv party. maybe they will do it, but i want to say that the majority of taiwanese do not share this opinion, and the majority of taiwanese they believe that we are truly inspired by the ukrainian people and we understand that we need to prepare for war and that if we want peace we want to prepare for war and how and in what way what means will taiwan, let's say, try to protect itself

from china's interference in the elections it is a powerful military power and we have a certain blessing thanks to the er straits that we are separated from the mainland and therefore really it will not be so easy for china to invade unlike how russia invaded ukraine of course our the location of aid helps the taiwanese to make a choice in particular because we have to invest in defense and also we have to strengthen our relations for example with japan with the united states and they help us strengthen our military potential and when we look and i can't say that our situation is like not in ukraine, but the geographical

position really helps us, and the fact and courage that we saw in the ukrainians also helps us. and we can say that all the calls are on his behalf. rather more obvious than what was the case with putin, no one knew until the end whether putin would dare to go to war, but despite all this, we must be ready to defend ourselves and to keep the peace. do you imagine any prospects for the democratization of the people's republic of china itself , how much can we count on it in the future, when there was a student movement in the 90s, i was the leader of the student community. and i, in fact, from the first 20 years of my life