[000:00:00;00] we know that, on the one hand, crimes of all types that are in the criminal code are committed or have been committed in almost every city, including murder, rape, forced confiscation of property, forced deportation, but on the other hand, there is this criminal who did it, he lies to the living eye and tries to lie in this world and to convince that it is not so. so, if we in poland look at this , we analyze everything and these comparisons are obvious, and i think that this is an additional reason or

impetus why poles react in this way. there is another element when journalists ask me for example, of westerners on western television, why do we help, why did we accept ukrainians, then the answer may not be so special. i tell them, yes, we simply have solidarity in our dna, because this is our identity to the issue of unification, in particular . last year, the issue of the ukraine-poland alliance was actively discussed great britain , what prospects do you see this week, it is of course a union of unification, which can be called a search

for understanding in order to realize common values, and this applies first of all to political issues, but also to military issues but it is also a certain starting point in order to implement joint measures, for example, now we have a conference in london soon and a conference that will be related to london , and it is organized by the british together with the ukrainians . of course, we will also be present there. and which testify to the fact that we need to react together to what

happened in order to return the principles that we all recognize and accept, we can say that this is an element of the process that i spoke about above earlier that is, this is another coalition only with ukraine, not just aid to ukraine, but this is already a partnership approach to ukraine, that ukraine is a subject of such a union , such an association, the same partner as poland and great britain, and no, not such a subject an object that simply needs to be helped to provide assistance, this is already the formation of a common common future, because from a political point of view, we have quite similar views and approaches, and it somewhat reminds me of our previous initiative, this is the lublin triangle

in 2022, you were the head of the osce for a year since i told you about the work of these organizations in ukraine, so that the osce could simply stay there, was there a social mission, a special monitoring mission, and what was the continuation of which, that is, a mandate is needed for this document, was russia’s consent, we knew that russia would not agree to this and it was clear that russia did not want this organization, an international organization of any kind , to be able to be present there and observe, be an observer on the one hand, and, on the other hand, co-form international public opinion on issues concerning ukraine, which russia attacked, but in connection with this, the lack of russia's consent to this leads to the fact that in this format this

mission could not be continued, but there would also be no money, that is, a budget for this mission , but it was managed to replace it is another institution that is currently working in ukraine and this was achieved without the consent of russia, simply another coalition willingly found money and out-of-procedure budget out-of-budget procedure out-of-budget procedure osce did it and i can proudly say that we managed to keep the osce flag on

the ukrainian land, contrary to what the aggressor wanted. so we understand how the last question to the parliament ended, because you are alone. i have to leave the parliament . how will the war in ukraine be ended? there is a question: the only form is the legal , only form of ending the war . it ends with peace. it can be a lasting peace , this peace must be just, because if the peace is unjust, then it is only a ceasefire , a just peace must have several elements , firstly, the return of territorial integrity i.e. ukraine within the borders of russia and any russian attacks must be independent, have national sovereignty and state independence. well, of course, i have already

said the territorial integrity of ukraine must also be rebuilt after the destruction of the destruction it suffered during this war, i.e. fair peace must also include the obligation of the aggressor , he emphasizes the aggressor to pay reparations, and there are many heads among third countries to help ukraine in reconstruction matters, but but these must also be operations, and this is, there cannot be a just peace without material responsibility for these crimes and for these destructions that were committed during its war, which is a violation of the principle of international law, must be put before russia has put an end

to the peace calculated to carry out aggression well, plus criminal responsibility for these crimes committed by the aggressor, because without this there is also no just peace . if all these conditions are not fulfilled, then which country can feel safe then? safe security, this would mean that if there are no consequences for the aggressor in the dimensions i mentioned above, this means that every country, a weaker country, should be afraid of its stronger neighbors. and this has nothing to do with the principles of international law, which were developed over many generations, this does not mean only about lawyers, but about people of good will, philosophers, these are all those who co-created what jointly created our

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happened in the world during the past week and also what we can and should expect during the week what is ahead of us and what is possible it is necessary to prepare and i really hope that you are already used to it and someone is already used to it to the new time of the airing of our program, it is approximately 13:10 now we will always this time well, as always, on the air of the espresso tv channel where we have not been turned off, and on youtube, and on youtube you can watch us on two channels at once, in the general espresso channel and a special one created for our program the world at war, so on this special channel we ask questions every week on what do we want to hear your answer to this week? there is also a question and it sounds like this. prigozhin shook his head. putin 's position. three options for answers

. is this survey over and who thinks their options, you can write in the chat, who will be from the side during the broadcast, and also i really want those who watch us on youtube, please put your preferences if you like the program i'm sure you'll like it don't like it if you don't like it although no i'm sure you'll like it well, write your comments it 's extremely important for us and extremely important for our program to be promoted on youtube as many people as possible can have the opportunity to see it well, i'm ready to introduce my first guest and go directly to the conversation oleksandr leonov executive director of the applied research center penta mr. oleksandr congratulations

to ukraine congratulations to the heroes, mr. oleksandr thank you very much for joining the program, watch first, now i will tell the audience briefly, i will prepare them for this first question that i will ask you, so ukraine will join nato in its own way, about this during a briefing in the pentagon last week, the spokeswoman for the department of defense of the united states of america, sabrina singh, said answering the question about the prospect of our country joining the north atlantic alliance, according to her, the secretary general of the alliance, jens stoltenberg , repeatedly emphasized that the door nato is open to all who wish, but then the short quote of the spokeswoman definitely inspires us, we see in the case of sweden and when it comes to ukraine, they will have their own way to join nato mr. oleksandr i have asked repeatedly during the last 2-3 weeks i asked the experts who joined me in the program before me on the air

about why they are afraid of us and perhaps they are delaying in brussels to formally invite us to e-e to join the north atlantic alliance. i understand that it is informal. that is, we submitted an application accepted, we all understand that we will not become a member of nato until the end of the russian war, which is ongoing in ukraine, with our obvious victory , we all understand that in order for the nato member states to fulfill certain mandatory requirements, we we will gradually implement them and it is quite a complicated process , but i want to ask you the same thing, why are they in brussels procrastinating for so long and most likely they will not be invited to the summit in vilnius either, at least they will not say ukraine we want you to become a member of nato a you know, it seems to me that here we speak

a little in different languages ​​in brussels. because when we had biden's statement, do you remember when he said that ukraine should fully meet all the criteria of being a member of the alliance? there was a lot of talk that biden was afraid of russia. and so on, in fact, a consensus has actually been formed in nato and the european union that ukraine has prospects of becoming a member of the alliance and a member of the european union, but we also have to understand that they are not afraid of russia, because even the old countries that were friends of russia france, germany provide ukraine with lethal weapons with which they kill russians, they know about it, and that is why they provided us with these weapons, that is, the question is not that they are afraid of russia, but now that nato and the european union have another phobia, this is the new

hungary, in fact, hungary has become a country that destroys the unity of the european union and nato, and in unofficial conversations this very fabia is very actively talked about in and in brussels and in other capitals of nato and the european union, and actually speaking here i would like to move on to the fact that it is actually sub objective reason that we won't be officially invited to nato, but the objective reason is that ukraine is now oleksandr i'm sorry, i 'm having trouble with the connection well, you keep talking because sometimes the connection is broken the objective reason, unfortunately, is that ukraine does not always fulfill the instructions provided by the measure and which it must fulfill, so let's not be verbose, i will say about the seven criteria that ukraine had to

fulfill in order to start negotiations on joining the european union and e the official conclusion in this regard was originally supposed to be given in may, but it was postponed , and in fact they say that there was an oral report and uh , according to which, as reported by the raiders, ukraine fulfilled only two of the seven conditions, that is, if ukraine fulfilled all seven conditions, we would have a very a powerful trump in order to talk with nato about the fact that ukraine meets many criteria, actively and dynamically performs homework, there is another point. so when we talk about not giving an invitation, let's remember that this is one of the important positions

of the united states, which always and eve, which in this war act as the direct and biggest allies of ukraine, and actually, let 's remember one important thing, just when you were greeting the tv viewers , you said to join us. some time ago, the statement of the state department on freedom of speech in ukraine and the need to resume broadcasting of opposition channels, ukraine did not actually respond to this appeal. and when the state department applies, it means that unofficial channels are no longer worked, and after that we can hope that there will actually be some serious breakthroughs regarding the invitation to nato. it seems to me that ukraine

should direct most of its work and activities to the formation of a clear step- by-step plan where it will be clear indicated step one step two step three step four and so on which we have to carry out after that nato actually determines our progress and makes a political decision to make it a two-way street and ukraine has already passed such a mechanism when received visa-free let's remember that we were given almost 150 conditions that ukraine fulfilled and after that the european union granted a visa-free regime despite the fact that there was a migration crisis in the european union and so on .

of the european union were forced to make such a decision. and it is very important for ukraine to have such a plan for membership in nato, that is, mr. oleksandr, i understand . will give to this plan that is, we are ready to implement it as you say, just as it was with membership in the european union . we were told that you should do this. you should do this . there is one. you should make that reform of the tour form, but our leaders of our country have repeatedly talked about it. we would like to hear some more and time frames. or it is possible to do as you say point one point two point 3 when when can it be do you know here in general, this is an interesting thing it is the ukrainian side that should be emphasized, and it is precisely the absolutely important moment to prescribe. maybe even the time frame. that is, we will carry out this step within a month, this

within two, and so on. in this way, we ourselves will set the time frame for the let's be, well, let's say so frank for the european union for nato, when there are no such strict criteria, they actually have room for maneuver . it is possible to receive this plan and offer one's own, and so that on the basis of this plan nato actually agrees or provides its criteria proposals and it was already approved at this summit. because it seems to me that this very moment is much more real than receiving

invitation and for this we need to work very seriously. well, let's hope that we will work and let's hope that before that we ourselves will offer something to nato and we will move forward. which took place last week, this is a conference on the restoration of ukraine, it was in the capital of great britain, in london, there were many statements of support for ukraine. forward on the path of helping insurers in insuring investments in ukraine, removing one of the biggest barriers and giving investors the confidence necessary to act with this and everything we do here, we are sending a message our support on the battlefield and beyond will continue and the incredible spirit of ukraine will win this so the decision sunok commented on the decision

can allocate more than 3 billion dollars in ukraine for reconstruction . blinkena all of these reforms and recovery efforts depend on whether ukraine has the ability to defend itself against future russian attacks that's why even as we invest in immediate and long-term recovery we must also invest in the ukrainian army, which will be strong enough to protect the sovereignty of ukraine , its territorial integrity and independence, so oleksandr well, look at my subject, my subjective opinion as just an international observer. i am serious about your expert opinion, what do you say? actually, er, this er, by the way, the conference is really any er conference

that concerns the restoration of ukraine, where the mechanisms are discussed, it is important, and this conference, as it seems to me, very clearly showed for ukraine, that the restoration of ukraine is an investment and cannot be considered as a separate project from the project of european and euro-atlantic integration, especially since last year it was announced that the creation of the rabil ukraine platform within the framework of the european union and, in fact, this already indicates that the european union is considering the restoration of ukraine as a project of the european integration of ukraine, in fact, many people are talking about the marshall plan for ukraine. so here is the marshall plan, let's remember this simple

reconstruction of germany after the second world war the war is a reformation, and it is a systemic, deep and in fact restructuring of the country, and it is precisely in this that the west sees the need for this help for them to rebuild ukraine - it is not only physical, it is also political. because let's say it more legally, because in fact ukraine is part of europe and that's all, but legally, we have to formalize it by joining the european union and nato, and we have to understand that these are absolutely united processes and separate from each other, they are just they won't work, it's clear oleksandr well, one more thing, how many times have we

moved closer to ukraine already on the territory of europe, yes . last week, the 11th package was approved, they finally approved the 11th package of anti-russian sanctions, and it passed with such a creak that for a long time they could not agree on it, at first, then they could not convince some players there to enter the european arena, after all , they did agree, after all, they did approve it, but then ursula von derlein , the president of the european commission, said that well, she said quite skeptically about that that we have come to a certain limit, the 12th package will be approved further, it will be very difficult to approve it, although the ministry of foreign affairs of poland said that they have already started work on this 12th package, so the question for you is whether the official brussels will be able to prepare

the 12th package still found leverage on some e-persons and in europe in some countries in order to convince them to adopt the 12th package because diamonds go there, the main thing will be a ban on the export of diamonds, and the benelux countries are very stubborn about whether they will be able to somehow convince well, as one famous hero neversent-never said, and i want to remind you that when the seventh package of sessions was approved, just after the approval of the sixth package, the european union also declared that we had reached the limit. it happens with a creak, but absolutely uh, they definitely said it finally, because the discussion was very difficult, except for diamonds . by the way, i want to say that there is a reserve for the introduction of sanctions against rosatom, which actually helps the russian ministry of defense

to circumvent sanctions, but there, again, very there are a lot of interests and a lot , including the nuclear security of the world, in order to overcome these problems, time is needed. but nevertheless, as far as prospects are concerned, you know , it seems to me that the trigger could be, for example , proving it in the legal field, that is, not just as a message the mass media because now there is a lot of information about the fact that russia, let's just say , blew up the dam, they didn't talk about it from the very beginning, but there are objective facts about the fact that it did it and this and the message about fixing the explosion by the norwegians er seykhnostsky stations and data from american satellites and so on and so on and so on the investigation of the european and

american mass media, who know everything, is increasingly narrowing the circle of how it was done, and i think when it will be possible to prove it, let it not be in court, but although on the level of facts, we should ask the question of the continuation of these sanctions, including those on diamonds and atomic bombs, because this is actually the use of weapons of mass destruction in ukraine , even without the use of tactical nuclear weapons , and so on in terms of its consequences. even exceeds the use of nuclear weapons, and actually speaking, one more step is to put pressure on russia very clearly regarding the situation in the soviet union, because after the dam was blown up, it is obvious that many in nato and the european union must