[000:00:00;00] clear deadlines for ukraine's accession to nato are expected from the alliance itself, minister of defense oleksiy greznikov, according to him, at the meeting of the north atlantic bloc, either the deadlines for ukraine's accession to nato must be determined or a certain event must be determined after which our country will become a member of the alliance. that must take place on 11-12 july in vilnius, the capital of lithuania, poland, the baltic states, the czech republic are in favor of the accession of ukraine, supports the acceleration of this procedure in great britain , but in germany only talks about the discussion at the summit of increasing ukraine's military capabilities also recently, the president of the united states, in joe biden, opposed the simplification of the procedure for ukraine's accession to the alliance, although previously he did not reject such an opportunity to talk about the prospects of what we can hear at the vilnius summit and about our progress and problems on the way to membership in the north atlantic alliance, we will talk today and deal with valentyn glykh , a political scientist who came to our studio

, congratulations my congratulations on direct communication , mykola davydyuk, a political scientist, is also happy to see us greetings good day greetings gentlemen, so there is not much time left until the summit and again, it is definitely so and it is not clear what ukraine will hear there in the end, but mr. oleksiy reznikov wants specific dates or steps to membership a-a someone is talking about what they told us at least to get some guarantees of security while our country moves on the way to, uh , taking a seat at the table with other members of the north atlantic alliance, and mr. valentin , the most realistic option that seems to you , well, the most realistic option that we will have some preliminary security guarantees have been offered, and the term will be offered

again and again. well, secondly , it will be articulated that ukraine will be a member of nato . membership in nato is the second point, the third point - it is most likely that some procedure for acquiring this membership will be made public and established, how to call it, the terms during which we have to go through this procedure , there are simply no other alternatives, that is, because as zelenskyi says in this regard, absolutely rightly, the refusal will be incomprehensible neither in ukraine nor among the citizens of the countries that are already members of nato, so i think that today the establishment of this organization is simply trying to formulate everything in such a way that

on the one hand, really don't cross some purely procedural points well, this is not a beauty , you understand, this is not russia when i go, i don't go for putin against putin you understand, this is a civilized world where people respect certain rules where people respect certain procedures and how to send a clear message within the framework of these procedures , in particular to putin himself, to the russian federation that in this strategic direction, russia has collapsed. well , that ukraine will become part of the north atlantic, uh, well, this new alliance, and there is one more nuance, to be honest i don't quite understand the rhetoric and the debate about whether the procedure was shortened or the procedure was not shortened. do you understand this , again, some figures of speech, and romania and bulgaria joined nato at one time because of the procedure. who doesn't remember? can you look to somehow refresh memories well, i tend to think that there will still be a positive result

of this summit and the key point, again, is what the ukrainian authorities constantly insist on, what the ukrainian authorities are paying attention to, and what is already becoming clear to the representatives of the western world, this is what the security the issue without ukraine and without ukraine's membership in nato is simply impossible , ask this article by rasmusan and yermak in limont so where is he? they, more precisely, very popularly explain why ukraine's membership in nato is for global security or at least regional european security well, it is necessary and inevitable. mykola, what are your expectations for what will happen in vilnius ? there is less and less time left before this event. indeed, nato member countries are now engaged in trying

to formulate a recommendation. will it be some kind of resolution or will it be some other form for ukraine , uh, how to please both our own and others, yes, uh, what can it be , what can it be, a clear wording , if it really will happen or will it happen again about the door that remains open even there continues to search for this space, uh, the current of the alliance, look, i think that everything is still the same, the situation is in progress, it is still moving , uh, the meeting in copenhagen, that is, the landing party, have you met with such democratic countries as brazil, india, but which ones are also south africa, but which ones have not yet took about the ukrainian position well, they are convinced there because, after all, the admission of ukraine to nato is not only a matter of nato members in general , a certain global consensus. well , again

, the position of these countries is clearly on the side of ukraine, and not there. with russia to agree to some kind of russian ultimatum not to arrest putin when he moves to his territory well , i think that now the states are also helping to find this solution and it was precisely this semi-secret meeting that was very important well, secondly, i think in general , in the basket of these nato accession negotiations, there are three things. the results of the counteroffensive, the victory and the registration of this victory in uh, actually in some kind of contract, will something be signed or will something not be signed. and the third. look at this condition from biden, it is very technological , technically according to washington, i would say that it was communicated two weeks ago first

a segment appears in politics, an article appears that sources close to biden say that biden is ready to convince other member countries of the alliance, which are not yet 100% in favor of ukraine's accession, to allow the country to accept the sprinkler and vat-free procedure, but it was the type of politician, sources close to biden, that he is working on this plan, then biden comes out and says, wait until there is corruption , there will be no quick introduction, it is called sending two letters, whichever one you like better, you will respond to that one, and this is how they did the caribbean crisis when there was imperfect communication in kennedy's office and khrushchev's office sometimes forwarded here that there is an escalation, and there is a letter - below the escalation, on which you write it, you show that what is the plan for the explosion of the body , here, too, here is which of biden's statements we we accept we say the best one where you are fast, super things, but there is no corruption there, then let's corruption and demonstrate to ourselves, really

, some such steps well, where can we show that eggs are 17 - it's not our cheese that says there, uh, some things also no less than those who judge for 3 million bribes, this is not our style. well, because they are also afraid that she will come there and steal the central office there. including that it is very cool that ukraine is ours the military and political leadership raises the stakes, they are not used to this, but it's cool, but now we raise the stakes ourselves , he says yes or no, say well, it is determined by what you drag us, time costs money, this is the second time and the most important thing is the life of our people , the territory, well look at the month of occupation, this is kakhovka, but if we rewind it, you can wash yourself, this is a geopolitical strategy to take ukraine and strengthen it, and today toltonberg said very nicely that the entry

of ukraine into nato is already in the interest of nato itself and he is right, in fact, this is somewhere , that’s what he said about this brazier and some other similar processes, and it’s in every there is a little bit of an interpretation, everyone has a little bit of a vision, but in general, it’s right. well, if they give us the resolution about which you they said yes, there is just some piece of paper, say, we covered you with a piece of paper, we will say, well , friends, but we also have your backs from the rockets of the guns , and you also want us to cover clear , firm military decisions and protection , including your territories. well, if you do you want it to be like this from our side, and you protect us and give us a clear introduction , what can it be, say, the war is over , you join or there you submit an application, you join. that is, all wording should be simple, any complicated wording will mean a throw, here we are should not be allowed because this is a super historic chance for ukraine. i would not

overestimate that this entry will be itself, but it should be a response to the entry. in a year, the biden election will be rushed by the whole company, like putin is playing his elections in march before that. that is, everything will be fine there. but now it is necessary to clearly prepare , this is the last rehearsal of ukraine's entry into nato , it is now or never. well, look, let's model the other side, and they give ukraine some incomprehensible answer. you give a no, just like in bucharest , then imagine how weak nato will look , nato will look like everyone, that is, they attacked such a big thing and then you gave the back chased in belarus this is what nato will look like and plus, let's also add the geopolitical situation, how they see russia too much now 25,000 heavily armed men who are clearly going to moscow scared putin and all the elites that they are charters we flew away putin flew so fast

that he even disappeared from the radar kabaeva left in moscow, and medvedev himself then caught up with him and disappeared from the radar. do you understand that 25,000 people? that is, we understand that moscow is not as terrible as it was portrayed. of nato itself dj if you now break it down into points , yes, ukraine passed the war, you understand, there are things when you pass the theory in practice and you don't need to send us any documents. yes, we agree with corruption, but we have to fight it and we will do it. we don't have it another chance, because they will be absolutely absolutely short retort about that so we see what processes have already begun to take place in the united states, they called it only the first act of what could be next, ah, adviser to the head of the president's office, mykhailo

podalyak also said that the second, second, second action will also be how important it is for the north atlantic alliance to really have this reliable shield of protection next to such an unpredictable neighbor and not just well-armed, but also , let’s say, directly get guarantees that ukraine will become just on defense, it will not fall under the pressure of this crazy regime that currently rules in russia, and that regime, i think, will fall sooner, but the point is not only that the subject of approval of this decision is nato, and the responsibility for this decision will be to lie on nato, all these talks about something that supposedly there is some part for which ukraine is allegedly responsible is hypocrisy and a lie . that is, all these messages that and you . do you do something there? and you still do something there?

approve the relevant decision, there is no need to tell that we are involved in this, and some of this territory around it is dangerous because then they will pick it up here inside the country and tell about the fact that it is allegedly the ukrainian authorities who are to blame for the fact that something did not happen there i will repeat again. this decision does not depend on the ukrainian authorities , and because of this, the decision will not rest on the ukrainian authorities. within nato, one or another decision may result, we see that a fairly large group of states that are nato members, and not the last states, yes, if they are going to compromise on military and political power, they are categorically in favor of ukraine becoming a member of nato as soon as possible, there is a group of states

who look at it more skeptically or more cautiously against it, as of today, no one seems to be speaking out, i don’t know, i haven’t heard any statements from hungary so far, yes, there is , but against it, to say frankly, against it, nobody well, at least i haven’t heard it, maybe i’m somewhere i didn’t hear something, er, how will the relations between these states be after that, some nato member states are well aware that ukraine is indeed for them today probably the most effective guarantor of their security, and some states that are a little further away, of course, less so they are concerned and they are simply more powerful from a military and political point of view, so will this contribute to the growth of trust between the baltic states, roughly speaking, the central european states, the same poland and, for example, germany, well, we understand how they will then agree with each other. will be observed the fourth article the fifth article well, if you can today neglect our interests at such an elementary level, which

by and large does not directly endanger your national security, then what how will you be? who will your national security be? would you actually protect us or would you just also say that well, yes , they promised to convene a consultation, well, they convened consultations because of that from a political point of view well, there is a political scientist from a political point of view - this is a decision, it is necessary and any uh alternative it will be harmful first of all for the block itself not for ukraine, i.e. ukraine is not a nato member today, this does not prevent us from receiving assistance in the rammstein format , receiving financial and technical assistance and effectively countering russian aggression, but there is political moments, and zelensky is right in saying that when there will be clear signals, a clear understanding that ukraine is part of nato, this will also knock out part of the propaganda rhetoric from the russians and will also

demotivate, well, what are we fighting for, what do we want to achieve? and as for talking about crime, corruption, you know i had one movement when it worked in the prosecutor's office. and here comes a commission from the center and says, "how are you doing here in the fight against drug traffickers ?" why is there so little, well, next year they come to check, well, of course, they already show more. oh yes, you have a negative dynamic . last year, there were only 10 sentences, and this year, there are already uh, souarach . well, you must be bad at prevention. yes, yes, not so, you see, when we say, for example, the situation with these princes, it is a manifestation of corruption or a manifestation of the fight against corruption, well, about this question. when the security service of ukraine detains , for example, a criminal group in the lviv region

that was involved there, it is a manifestation of organized crime or a manifestation of the fight against organized crime. well, when this judge is arrested for having money, and the case is still pending, then this is evidence of the strengthening of the legal system, or is it evidence of the fact that there are no troubles ? sides and depending on ours, you want to see where you are there and see. and i currently see that the institutional capacity is growing, is it possible in a few weeks or there in a few months to change what has been formed for years, well, that is, whether can it all be cleaned up quickly? well, i tend to think that this is quite a difficult task, but i personally see that this task is solved and solved quite effectively

, well, at least in the part that concerns the armed forces of ukraine. solved by the example of the security service of ukraine well, we see that this task regarding self-cleaning is solved quite successfully even in those judicial bodies it is successfully er-e dbr it is successfully nabu yes when some of the patriotic businessmen from the ternopil region were detained again. by the way, you know that i noticed another very interesting piece of information, that usually those who shout the loudest about corruption then shout the loudest about political persecution, when for corruption, that is, the name itself. yes, corruption is conducted according to customs political opponents , therefore, if you want to fight corruption, you must be prepared for the fact that political figures will be involved in this fight, because they

are by and large the subjects of these corruption turnovers, so here is the conclusion, er, we deviated a little, but i will repeat, eh, no, i will just repeat again, responsibility yes, you just know it, speaking rudely, eh, well, when i was little, my grandmother told me that you will be a lad, you will be borscht, and borscht, eh, with with or without meat, she said with meat and a cow, i would like it with meat , when she said that he wanted borscht without meat, i said oh, i wanted it with meat, i still won't , so listen or are you looking for reasons which you use to argue your position or you decide the real ones problems and encourage your counterparty to also move in a certain direction of ukraine's membership in nato, ukraine's membership in the eu is also a kind of prerequisite for domestic political transformations if ukraine tomorrow becomes a developed civilized legal social state capable of

independently solving all its economic all its political all the security challenges of technology, and we are adding to our conversation today , er, maksym zhygun, a political scientist . congratulations to maksym. i congratulate you on the conditions put forward by the north atlantic alliance for accession ukraine's accession to nato has already been discussed, i think we will move on to the next sub-topic . these are, of course, the same security guarantees offered by our partners, various options on our way to e-membership, and what are the most likely scenarios for providing ukraine with precisely this support in order to our state could secure security guarantees of some kind, again, at least for that period, so far we were talking there, saying that in a year washington will probably make a decision on the accession of ukraine, which on do you see more likely options

that will be able to help us? well, the fact is that there are not many similar options and models of security guarantees in the world, in particular, there is a stage about which a lot of people talk about the korean model or the taiwanese model, and here is the israeli one, and the fact is that for a long period of time, after all, the political elites of the west and ukrainian non-representatives of the political community say that the israeli model for ukraine is the most realistic, and on the sidelines , experts from international institutions say a lot about it, and even though you know, we constantly we say that the israeli model is a little misleading because in the case of israel it concerned , let's say, bilateral relations between the united states and israel; secondly, it foresees, in the case of israel, not such global financial investments in security and defense as, for example, ukraine needs that if we look over the year of the war, how much the nato member states spent on helping

ukraine, it is more than 100 billion dollars. and in the case of israel, it is about 40 billion spread over 10 years. the third is that in our war is, in principle, completely different from israel's. israel is fighting terrorist organizations, not the largest country in the world and with one of the simply huge reserves of personnel, let's say human and military , so this causes a certain surprise and you know concern, but on the other hand, understanding that we have a completely different war, we have a completely different approach, so obviously it will be deeply modified and changed, i think that most likely it will be a bilateral agreement and by how many different states we have heard a lot and they say about the united states and britain that france is ready to join. perhaps there are other countries, including poland, with which we could sign similar agreements and discuss some long-term plans

to support ukraine. you are right here that you noted the most important thing is that security guarantees do not stop there the alternative of ukraine's accession to nato did not become a substitute , about which there is also a lot of talk. and i offer some kind of exit to a new stage of relations between ukraine and the north atlantic alliance, but on the other hand, it is definitely not a substitute for accession, so here ukraine's position is quite tough, it is diplomatic, but at the same time it can be tough, and it indicates that ukraine wants to understand under what conditions what are the necessary steps to implement and what is most important when we can become part of the north atlantic alliance, but guarantees are really needed , they are very important in meaningful filling

, so what are they because on the one hand the intervention of ammunition or types of weapons at such a pace as it is now suits the commander because every day of delay by our western colleagues in providing ukraine with the necessary breaths and armaments means the death of ukrainian defenders who defend not only ukraine with their bodies but also the europeans themselves and representatives of other states, therefore , these security guarantees should be very clear and indisputable, i.e. when there are signatories who agree to them, then after that there will be political delays of some kind of demagogic discussions there should be clear help and clear support , and there is a lot of talk about what could be such security guarantees. and we are actually already somewhere on the verge of understanding ukraine has long understood what is meant by western countries of course it is aviation that we need as of yesterday but nevertheless , the talks are now being conducted today, by the way , another state announced the training

of ukrainian pilots and the provision of the necessary amount of all aviation weapons to ukraine, and recently representatives of the hnat air force also said that 200 planes - this is our basic need, but if , based on the results of the kolozamite, a decision was made to provide ukraine with such a number of planes, on the one hand, and on the other hand, we heard about the president's statement regarding the need for 50 air defense systems of petriv in order to cover the sky in ukraine if this solution were possible, not in the form of 50 , but at least 30, this would be a very serious manifestation of all security guarantees, and what is most important. in this context, we cannot ask for one or the other. we need a complex of all assistance, including air defense aviation, because after, say, ukrainian airfields will be used by western planes, they need to be protected and the airstrips must be protected for this

, modern weapons in the form of air defense systems are needed, of course , finances are needed in order to rebuild the critical infrastructure which is needed at least for the take-off and landing of that aircraft and finances are also needed for the activities of the ukrainian army and the ukrainian state apparatus in general therefore, of course, there are many conversations, you know, many western analysts say that ukraine is allegedly asking for too much , but i see in this a clear diplomatic step on the part of the ukrainian state , the military-political leadership, to ask for more in order to get what is most necessary now, so i believe that all this rhetoric is actually correct and we will expect that in vilnius we will hear answers to such important questions for us, the absolutely israeli scenario as one of the options for security guarantees. and if i am not mistaken, you

spoke of a certain a-a well, they approached him with criticism, they said that ukraine is an israeli scenario, in fact, it has already outgrown a-a so, please explain what the best alternative can actually be, if the israeli scenario, then what scenario two or the introduction of nato is a full-fledged full entry, since finland did it, that is, finland was accepted into nato and said that while you are joining, the fifth fifth article guarantees your safety, if even someone attacks in these someone, we understand that this is russia, then we will all stand up for you and you let's help in finland, why should we come up with a bicycle that we have with israeli guarantees and whether or not any other copies volkswagen factories bmw factories introduction there is an introduction on that super warranty we want such in finland they also gave a pulse they also rebuilt and invested why should we come up with

i think about hundreds of scenarios and pair them. well, it’s not interesting for me at all. well, that’s the first thing. the second thing is if , for example, god forbid us. he says that we cannot accept you, but we are ready to help dismantle russia and putin’s regime. in fact, he considered the absence of a point of gravity, which is a point of threat, putin's aggressive policy, they say, well, he cannot take technically, well, there are 32 chairs, yes, for sweden, you don't have any. well, okay, we say , even if we come with our own, they won't accept us, but they say we are ready to dismantle this regime as a threat and, for example, the dismantling of their regime or the collapse of russia, this is also an element , we saw on saturday that it is really possible , more than possible, the dismantling of putin's system , which turned out to be really, really, very weak you can be fragile, despite the fact that putin fled so quickly, and this indicates that this dismantling is possible, and today the british intelligence came out with a similar statement . well, we must prepare for the possible instant collapse of russia. because, understand, we

were told that it was possible. the black swan turned out to be a beauty. let's not be a fool rather with such a black cock . here and bald, and maybe really as seven - this is a swan, a black swan that can really lead to the collapse of russia . now, at this stage, the only big guarantee for us will be the entry into nato, and here we need to emphasize, you know, there is such a concept in the field in politics, in political science, as a political moment. the phrase cannot be stopped, and the idea whose time has come, here it is, somewhere approximately , it is now falling on and it really corresponds to reality. therefore, we must not change to other scenarios now, throw all our efforts to implement the main idea towards which the country is moving, because look they are geopolitically on our side and domestically on our

side, a plus - this is the most demanded thing, again, we have never had such a sociology that under 90% would support joining nato, so why not take advantage of this in us there 10-20 years ago , it never happened such sociologists, that is, internally we are determined and nato is on our side . that is why now the best situation is to press on. i see that everyone is determined and our friends are in good shape. the war in ukraine raised a very acute question regarding the reforms in the rules under which the north atlantic alliance operates, in particular , regarding this rule of unanimity. those on which we will have to concentrate, in your opinion, will we see in the future in such a distant future that it is likely that in order to solve such issues , such institutions will have to be reformed, and