[000:00:00;00] let's do some conspiracy theory or some speculation even before i am the president of cardigan - this can be proposed , i have no doubt that he will propose it. i have almost no doubt that it will be heard, but i do not think that it will have any consequences. this is question 11-12, the next one. nato is actually waiting for the results on the eve of this. the ukrainian side said that we are waiting for ukraine to become a member of the north atlantic alliance . today, stoltenberg said that the leaders of the nato countries at this summit will approve a multi-year support package for ukraine that will bring it closer to the alliance, we will hear what the secretary general of the north atlantic alliance said that the leaders of the alliance countries will agree on a package of three elements that will bring

ukraine closer to nato . -secondly, we are improving our political ties by creating the ukraine-nato council, and thirdly , i expect that the leaders of the alliance countries will confirm that ukraine will become a member of nato and unite regarding how to bring ukraine closer to this goal, mr. oleksandr, there was no such item as the provision by certain members of the north atlantic alliance of guaranteeing ukraine's security, mr. oleksandr, in the case of finland and sweden . why is no one talking about this? by these states, you understand. that is, as we wanted , the ideal scenario for us was that we would combine it all into one, and the question is, in principle, this question

. let's say that it will actually succeed. it's called, well, what does it mean that we will unite because you understand what the situation actually is, these issues are different , well, it's about security, and both. it's all about security and about helping ukraine, but the nato summit and the future of ukraine's membership in nato are one issue the second issue is security guarantees as a derivative, which should be resolved in some way in such a way that there are individual states that agree to provide these guarantees. by the way, in finland and sweden it would be approximately the same, it was the nato members who said that we are ready in fact, to support you, well, the vast majority were nato members, but they actually did it as a voluntary initiative. that is, it was not a collective decision of nato, it was a separate initiative of those

states that expressed their support and promised finland, sweden that if there were any manifestations from on the part of russia or others, they will send them help, but actually we now come to the conclusion that we have one question , that is, what should be in the final statement of the alliance that ukraine should become a member of nato as soon as the active phase of hostilities ends in principle, this should not be a war, because a war is a state of war, it can last for a long time due to the uncertainty of the absence of peace, but there may not be large-scale hostilities, so while there are no hostilities, this is a window of opportunity for us, and the second thing is, in fact, as soon as this elected senate begins to consideration of the application for the accession of ukraine, and the third is within the framework of this nato council of ukraine, which is actually being reloaded , is going to a higher level, and all the parameters of our membership must be carried out

, because we once again heard certain let's say yes, i think we will hear them based on the results of the vilnius summit, no matter what anyone says, but we will be reminded about the fight against corruption, we need to think about the judicial reform , we will be reminded , well, that may be there. we will not get anywhere from this, and this is what i think is the history of nato and the history of the security guarantee, this is a question of what would be ideal for us if the final statement recorded that nato does not object to the fact that individual member states of the alliance under the terms of bilateral agreements with ukraine can guarantee certain security guarantees there, which will be the parameters of this agreement until ukraine becomes a member of nato, this seems to me to be quite positive for us, but in any case , security guarantees are still history in nato, but it is also history outside

nato, because these are specific agreements, clear from each of the states that plans to provide such guarantees and how far with these guarantees, and whether another state is ready to go, because it must also be understood that some of our overexcited partners will be there at the summit hungarians are present, maybe someone else who will immediately start talking about the fact that we should not be involved. we do not want to fight with russia, and there will be such, and we just need to make it clear to them that now there is a question of security guarantees, as much as i do not want hungary, let it not provide. we do not we say that we already accept nato, but if you want to make france , the usa, germany or britain, then let 's talk with them specifically point by point about each and sign the relevant agreements . maybe we will hear about the parameters at the summit of these agreements. well, let's say in more detail what can be entered there before. isn't

the coordinator of strategic communications of the national security council of the white house, john kirby, noted that the united states of america supports the open door policy, but they say that ukraine must go through a mandatory negotiation process and a mandatory -e fulfillment of certain requirements that are in the alliance and this discussion should continue between this country and the alliance at the same time the president of lithuania repeatedly says that at the nato summit in vilnius it will be possible to agree on such obligations to ukraine that do not will be disappointing, as the results themselves, oleksandr, according to you

, will affect the course of the russian-ukrainian war. i would like to add that the president said and made another statement that lithuania can impose vetoes on the final statement if it does not correspond to the national interests, and there are certain questions for us here as well, because i am almost sure that now the national interests ukraine and lithuania, well, they coincide in many ways. we understand very well that the baltic countries suffer and empathize and help ukraine like no other, and this is also such a statement , on the one hand, the first is encouraging from the lithuanian president, and the second is such that, for some reason , it makes you think, but in the end, we will wait we will draw conclusions ourselves then and there. and as for the result, it is a meaty thing , the most important thing is that the russian ultimatum of december 2021, which they put forward to nato, that

nato withdraw its presence to the limits of which preceded 1997, no one is going to fulfill it. obviously, at least because of the fact that the demands of the bucharest summit or the decision or the korean one at that time in 2008 that nato's doors are open to ukraine, they will be confirmed. i think that even in a better form than it was, at least we are on it we are also counting on more progressive forms for us. so, no matter what, but nato rejects the ultimatum of the donkeys, nato actually does not go, let's say, in this case, on the occasion of russia, this is the first moment, the second moment , of course, we are counting and waiting for what on the sidelines of this summit, there will be clarity about speeding up the provision of weapons to ukraine, which is needed, and this has a direct impact on the entry into the war, because the more and the faster we are provided with weapons from our partners

, the more it has what is happening, and i think that we would like to hear, well , let's say this about the prospects of providing the f-16, about the transfer of attacks from other types of weapons, this is what you understand the subject, this is what will not give you this, you know, despondency because in the background in particular and there is a somewhat skeptical attitude to the budapest memorandum and other points. well, that's how it turned out, because the ukrainians are just statements or, let's say so simply, some solutions, but for us it is important that they go into the objective plane, although at the same time we see what we are already told and hinted at from the side of the united states that it is possible the simplified procedure will be for ukraine , but the simplified procedure and the departure of the openers, which is mandatory for everyone in the defense, security, political and legal spheres , there will be no exceptions, it will also be for us to understand. i

think that they can remind us of this, but here objectively, i see things in the fact that uh, it should be clarity on weapons, and because the demands of russia will be rejected. the main requirement is that we remain a neutral state in general, and they constantly emphasize this. thank you, oleksandr, for the conversation. it was oleksandr musienko, a military expert, and i will say that we are working live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms for those who now watching live on youtube, please like this video, subscribe to our pages on social networks, i want to introduce one more of our guests - this is yuriy gudymenko, junior sergeant of the armed forces of ukraine, commander of the sapper unit

, former leader of the democratic ax. congratulations , mr. yuriy, we are glad to see you on our air good evening. let him want. first of all, i want to congratulate you on the release of your book , which is called history and wars . for an autograph , you can come to kyiv on july 8 at 4:00 p.m. to the presentation at 23 sichovyh striltsiv street, and this is in kyiv, not in lviv. i read a lot of things already on facebook in some posts, but obviously there are things that did not enter the social network, which appeared only in this book, so everything is true , and this is a collection, this is a collection of texts that appeared on

social networks, this is a collection of texts that appeared in completely different ukrainian snakes for many years, this is the best of the best, you know, musicians sometimes make a selection of the best, yes, this is actually what it is. and it is built in chronological order from 2014 to 2023. chronologically, they are the latest because there are two texts from 2014 that i wrote when i was a resident of zaporozhye, and they have actually been warning us since march 2014 that russia is going to choose the zaporizhzhia region, russia is going to leave crimea, russia

is going to kyiv, and we that i would like to get there the status of a prophet or something else this is absolutely not mine and i just wanted to show with this that there are things that could probably have been prevented and that could have been calculated long before the great war and to me everyone from zaporizhia zaporizhzhia is my hometown it hurts from what it means. the region is now occupied and theoretically it could be done so that this did not happen. let's return now to what is happening and the policy of relations with ukraine and the promise of the united states of america to give us cluster munitions because you are a person who is -is jesaper and a person who knows about cluster munitions probably much more than me and our tv viewers eh. the united states of america

promises to provide us with cluster munitions and this is very good in the fight against the russian invaders, the russians use cluster munitions, but part of our partners , in particular, from germany eh the head of the german foreign ministry, anna lena berbuk, says that there is no need to supply ukraine with these munitions, that ukraine gains and what it loses by receiving these munitions from the point of view of the future demining of those territories where these munitions of the future demining will be used from this point of view and we will receive from three to four or five, as far as i remember, for this particular model of ammunition this is a fact, yes, that is, there will be uh, not torn from the ammunition, but i

personally believe that uh, well, in this situation, uh , there is no good choice, that is, not to receive cluster ammunition, simply not to receive them and lose tens of hundreds of fighters er, there will be conventional artillery and more effective, therefore we have problems with the connection with yuriy gudymenko, please redial er, we are waiting for the decision of the united states of america itself regarding the allocation of $800 million in aid to the country, among other things. there will be and cluster munitions sean bell, a military columnist for the british tv channel skynews, says that the consequences of the use of cluster munitions in ukraine will be felt for many

years, and the ukrainian authorities should not rush to make a decision on their use under during the hostilities, i will quote what they mean by bell, the leaders of ukraine must compare the benefits of this weapon, which can provide a decisive advantage in this war, with the risks they will inherit. connection yuriy gudymenko, give the connection, something is not quite good, mr. yuriy. so, let's continue about cluster ammunition, because it is very important to explain to our tv viewers what percentage of cluster ammunition will definitely not explode. the fact is that in soviet ammunition, in russian ammunition, this percentage is much higher than in those that the americans can now give us, it is much larger and it really does not break, really, then the sappers have to

work with them eh and it is usually difficult, but it is much more difficult to deal with eh hmm with russian fortifications that have to be stormed, which may not be taken plus or minus or spend a huge amount of ammunition , of course, artillery and, of course, mortars, and therefore cluster munitions, yes, ok, some percentage of them are not realized, but in my opinion opinion, we will lose much less people eh with their use than without their use, i.e. an absolutely ideal model that has no losses, i don’t know any problems for ecology, no eh losses among the civilian population, there is no such a simple choice, there is no choice between other losses eh of ukrainian lives and less, we will lose ukrainian lives, and the full responsibility for

this is of course the russian federation, which came to our earth with a war, and therefore i would advise humans straits watch and all other human rights organizations not to tell us about how to properly liberate our land from the occupiers, and to turn our attention to what is happening thanks to whom all these battles, all these victims, all these destruction of human shields volodymyr zelenskyi and yuriy just a few days ago announced that the counteroffensive has slowed down because western weapons is coming slowly, there is also a study of the number of the institute of the world economy according to some united states of america germany and great britain provided ukraine with much less weapons than promised and the declared amount of new aid is decreasing according to your opinion is the west deliberately reducing the supply of weapons or is it just that the world is not keeping up with the pace

of the ukrainian army and the way the ukrainian army uses these weapons because this war is really the biggest war after the second world war on the european continent i think it would be wrong to speak in general yes, because all the countries of the west are completely different, have different interests and different stockpiles of weapons, by the way, and the weapons themselves have, well, they are very different, and they give them to us or do not give them in what quantity for completely different reasons, that is, conditionally speaking of planes like the 16 that have been discussed for quite some time, the decision to provide them seems to me to be purely political because there are quite a lot of them with some types of ammunition, for example , the situation is different in the west, there are not so many of them, they did not prepare for such a war at all, and therefore their

the production of supplies to us is delayed not because of political reasons. there is even a desire to transfer. and due to physical reasons, they do not have time to produce them in sufficient quantities, and they do not have a stock. that is why. well, really, our war is absolute historical nonsense for the of the west because in their picture of the world, there should be no more such people, no, no, there shouldn't be, yes. they were preparing to fight with underdeveloped countries, with heavy weapons, with people who have heavy weapons. i don't know drug addicts there . it became clear that the west will wage a war against a highly developed country , they are very well, it turned out that a large part of their defense industry is simply not physically ready for this. they do not have technologies, they have technologies, but the volumes

of which they do not have. and in general, the country of europe in general the last decade there in fact, they carried out a policy of disarmament and reducing defense spending, and now they are absolutely in emergency mode, on the contrary, they are all, on the contrary, starting to correct their mistakes, preparing for the future, and it is of such a format, without a doubt, because obviously no one could even imagine that there would be a war this is the largest war of this scale in the last decades, in the last decades. putin says that there are problems that some countries are creating, but they will overcome these problems. well, at least that's what

he said at the meeting of the members of the soviet security council. and let's see what putin said about the complications created by some countries in russia's relations, so far nothing good has happened from the point of view of achieving the goals that are not set on the russian government, nothing will work, but against this background, mr. yuri, there were still secret negotiations, as it turned out, lavrov and former officials of the united states of america, in particular, this was reported by mbc news , referring to its sources, moscow of course denies that lavrov is conducting any separate

negotiations there, but purely theoretically, can moscow now introduce some behind-the-scenes negotiations about how, as macron once said, with a face that needs to be saved, you leave this war, are they ready? well, like kamikaze, go to the end and simply destroy your country, until the final division into separate countries, until the collapse of russia , bring the economy to ruin well, do everything. well, don’t give in to your ego. i think that a lot of russian officials have a completely different view of this than putin , because it seems to me that putin will go all the way in this regard. there is nowhere for him to run. there is no place to retreat, in fact, and on the one hand, he has internal tensions , on the other hand, he has a war that the general will sooner or later lose , but i am absolutely sure that moscow can conduct separate negotiations

, to be honest, i do not think that these are negotiations, well, on some serious level, uh, because well, i don’t see many people who want to communicate with lavrov, uh, at all. well, to be honest, i also don’t see the possibility in the usa, hmm, to hear something from russia or to offer something from russia other than immediate withdrawal from the entire occupied territories lavrov of ukraine obviously doesn't want to hear this, can't and won't, but there will be secret negotiations. of course, russia really wants to hold a lot and drawing historical parallels - that's, well , i don't think we'll see the flight of the laurel, like we once saw prilitges in britain. well, we saw ok. we saw in the history textbooks, i'm not that old after all, but they dream about it, i'm sure that a large number of people from around the point

dream of separate negotiations because they don't want to drown together with putin, they will try to make it so that it is they, their families, their entourage, somehow the specialties came out of the water dry, but i don't think that they still have the characteristics to offer the director of a dictatorial country, er , only a dictator can offer something, and all the others are only performers, well, another dictator who is located in the north of ukraine, oleksandr lukashenko, speaking to journalists yesterday , said that he can be a mediator in the so-called peace talks between ukraine and russia if, of course, he is asked, although he

the status of the song is already fixed , no one will deny this. at the same time, literally today, the representatives of lithuania, poland and latvia wrote a letter to nato about the threats from minsk from minsk, because since tactical nuclear weapons are being moved, poland, lithuania and latvia are actually putting a logical question before the north atlantic alliance. is it necessary to review this concept of nuclear deterrence and do what you already have with belarus, or is this putin's desire to turn it into a nuclear testing ground or to a nuclear site for launching missiles in belarus, will it lead to an even greater strengthening of nato's position in eastern europe? well, expansion, well, expansion - this already applies to ukraine in the context of the vilnius summit, that is, will there not be steps to

increase that it is currently demonstrating then lead to the fact that he will get the absolutely opposite effect, that is, not the borders of 1997, but the borders of 2024, but already in the borders of ukraine, nato. i think that this is absolutely, well, well, putin got into a situation in which everyone his blood only makes him worse. this fact. and now this room is absolutely absurd from the point of view of strategy, logic, and even the very principles of using nuclear weapons. this is the room he is making for belarus. it really has an effect on europeans because there is already enough of this. it hasn't happened for a long time and europeans are afraid of a nuclear war, this is a fact. all people are afraid of a nuclear war, but if putin thinks that he will thereby make them

more pliable, it is not true, because in the eyes of the world he is not the rightful successor of the all-powerful ussr now he is in the eyes of the world a loser who started a war against someone who violated all the rules of the civilized world, he must be punished for this and is taking his steps already in this status, this does not strengthen him in a negotiating position, it actually strengthens our race position because of course ukraine will be in nato and it will be there not only, of course, due to the fact that putin somehow had a place there, i don’t mix it up, no, because nato at this stage of the development of human civilization, there is actually no sense without ukraine. well, there is simply no sense because exactly ukraine is doing te why was nato once created in order to curb the appetites of moscow and

the advancement of moscow, the military advancement of moscow towards europe, and of course that ukraine will be nato because without nato, well, without ukraine , nato is just an abbreviation. thank you, mr. yuriy. was yuriy gudymenko, the youngest member of the armed forces of ukraine, the commander of the sapper unit , the former leader of dem axes, friends, we work live on the espresso tv channel, as well as on our youtube and facebook platforms, for those who are now watching us live, please like this video subscribe to our social networks you can become our e-e sponsor sponsor youtube channel espresso you are now seeing a qr code by clicking on which you can join our sponsor club and help us develop the youtube channel we will be grateful for any help, also read our news on the espresso tv website, we are working for you 24 hours a day, seven days a week for

more prompt information from ukraine, the world , the frontline chronicle, it is on our website, i say goodbye to you, friends, i wish you a good weekend take care of yourself and your loved ones. goodbye, today we are talking about the consequences of the explosion of the kakhova hydroelectric power station, a lot of water is coming down, big problems remain without clean drinking water , hundreds of thousands of people in the south of ukraine are still without