[000:00:00;00] it's a wonder , because i was very suspicious of the ukrainian hopes that i read in the networks and on the internet that there is a chance to get membership . they started talking about the political part, we will go into the military part after that, and then there is everything. it seems to me that the maximum possible is oh-oh-oh what was made public yesterday, the day before yesterday, that fruitful relations, more weapons, more prospects for weapons, that is, not for a year, but already if on a permanent basis on the basis of what is obvious consideration is obviously training, some such things are obvious, but there is no question about the introduction , and it may be a promise after the war, and

this is how they think that this is the maximum . about the participants, when the participants were preparing their positions for this, of course, what came out of the plan , the plan, the plan, was related to the fact that it is not about membership, it is about cooperation, it is about the council of ukraine nato foresees the expansion of cooperation from co-industrial sphere in the acquisition criteria for gradual advancement in the euro-atlantic and on the path of antibiotic integration, but not about membership, i did not even promise . and the country's leadership of the military-political command we managed to change a certain position of the main

players of nato and as far as i understand now in the freedom of the position will be formulated which will provide for membership, this does not mean that we will be offered to become a member tomorrow , but it will mean that we already have a certain position regarding the fact that ukraine will be a member of nato after the war, at least, and this will be announced sooner rather than later. we heard about biden's statement about the so-called form of the israeli security guarantee formula. but here , in my opinion, there is a certain trap, because first we need a guarantee of membership in nato, and then security guarantees are better than security guarantees than membership of nato suits itself and

to invent, but first of all, of course, the ukrainian government is interested in effective guarantees of security guarantees, and at the moment, do you have acquisitions in the promotion package of ukraine ? has nato arrived and security guarantees should be in the package, it should not be divided , things should not be divided, i believe that freedom has a chance to receive exactly such a formula, she is not completely satisfied with kyiv, kyiv can criticize it, there are good analytical publications that appeared this week, which reveal the risks of not gaining ukraine's membership in nato, and if we are only offered security guarantees, they believe to the israeli formula. i agree with this materialist because in this way the prospects of membership are being distanced from us. and we should clearly hear when ukraine will become a member of nato without exception, without all the policemen and talk about the fact that the political part is the security part, and nato is

the unity of all components and political - this is a military-political block, this is both a military aspect and a political block, and primarily a guarantee of the danger of the application of the fifth article of the agreement on the creation of nato, that is, without this article, there is no talk of security guarantees do not make any sense, vitaly, well, that is, the formula that i proposed. the maximum possible. i am simply absolutely convinced that no one in the west ever thought about ukraine joining nato during the war. the maximum is what you just said is one of the options there, of course, we don't know anything, the negotiations are ahead and negotiations are ongoing , and zelenskyi is still not free, and what arguments he will bring in favor of maximum promotion, we don't know, but

what i found calms me is such and such a word as a provocation and you are now the personification i tried to talk about nato with you the map of future russia i am looking at the map of future russia and i no longer want to talk about nato i already want to tell you that such a colorful map is your only drawback as i said, what kind of people are you? kutya is a beautiful yarsky region. it’s green there, it’s cold there, there are no greens there at all, two days out of one a year, and let’s skip. well, okay, i succumb to your provocation. do you really think that the disintegration of russia is possible, because it is getting stronger? arguments and for what it can be, i now reject the desire ukrainians during the war very often pass it off as real and there are people who so easily say well, they

disintegrate . considering the fact that i specifically counted how many territories there are where national minorities predominate, there are nine of them , as far as i remember 8-9 territories with a minority of russians, starting, for example, with chechnya , where there are 2% russians. but in the end, most russians have more or will russians want to go somewhere to secede where they will constitute the majority is unknown, well, let's start with the fact that you know about the disintegration itself , few believed that in russia a military coup attempt was possible, but we saw the prigozhyn campaign, few believed that any attempts by any opposition or the military fronts can

turn out in such a way as the use of armed forces in opposition to the use of artillery there , opening fire on servicemen of the russian army by the representatives of the alleged military formations themselves, that's not enough it was said, but it is happening, we see how the opposition is accumulating in various groups around putin, and many of them already understand that it is worth speeding up the transition of power, and accordingly, whoever becomes the head of russia after putin, he will not be a real king, as in that according to the film, this conflict will continue and i am more than convinced that it will take place primarily not on national grounds or the ability of certain groups of certain corporations to control this or that territory militarily, i.e. private military corporations, private military, and covert armies will be the main factor in the formation of new independent states in russia, and i do not believe in the military

revolution or in the 20th coup, i believe more in riots and pogroms in russia, and as a result of these security points, there will be a deep civil war, but the consequence of this deep civil war in russia will be this map behind my back, which is the post of russia , by the way, it was formed primarily not on the principle of territorial districts, it was formed from the point of view of breaking the integration of russia to prevent the reproduction of the imperial project. that is, this is a map of the ukrainian vision of how we should equip russia , that is, poor solzhenitsyn turned three times in his coffin after your words, but look at what i want to ask you . it seems to me that we have been for several years. a lot of conversations

go from political science to military economics to psychological or even psychiatric. vladimir lenin, because if you read his works written just before october 25, that is, november 7, according to the new style, he was not afraid of power, he says that we must go forward , we must conquer, we must fight, we must advance . now we see, i simply do not see in russia even among strong military forces who will say we want we will we will do some sluggish shoigu is sitting who is one of the gerasimovs that means how his uh wagners all get to moscow they don't go to moscow then belarus because

in short i don't see i don't know if he can use it this is the word eggs. i don't see it. i don't see eggs. those are the ones that are sold in stores so that no one blames me . what do you say ? vitaly. those who can claim power are public figures, but he was of public service, he was published at least when i sprinkled the surface. steplishmenty or military spheres or in the special services, it is obvious that this will happen. this person is not public, but the fact that such people exist is that such people understand that their future, their personal survival will depend on

how quickly the transition of power will take place , accordingly, they will rely on the fact that they will carry out this transit and gain power over the whole of russia. this is obvious. i think there are people who will take a risk and this is not just one of them. i think there will be many more such cases when attempts will be made. otherwise, he tried. we will see another attempt. we will only read after the fact , but the more such attempts there were, the better, because again, i, uh, bet on riots, it leads to a revolution, well, riots and it will be crushed, it’s just all against all, i understand correctly. that is, we are not now we can't even imagine how it could look like. and how do you see the beginning , who instigates it, who will push this scheme to the already riotous graves, how it can look like, well, in reality, i have written more than once, i am talking about the so-called er

point of superfragility, this when certain processes lead to the accumulation of russian metal stability when the structure of the empire begins to rot or there is erosion of these or other institutions , the social system does not work, some political tools do not work, especially the regional relations between the federal center and the regions begin to fail, somewhere there is no bread, somewhere, on the contrary, they are trying to introduce they will try to transfer the card system somewhere to us, they will suppress it with mobilization, somewhere , they will not punish some arbitrary police officer or the prosecutor's office, and that's it. will cause a wave of dissatisfaction there and it is not known what will happen because it all accumulates accumulates accumulates we now see even censored russian sociology indicated the accumulation of aggression, this aggression

is not channeled towards the external enemy, it accumulates and the point of super fragility it will manifest itself in er absolutely banal things , that is, it will be exactly this the point will appear, it may turn out to be simply a beating of some kind of rally or a lack of bread, a drain that will visit later. and one more question. excuse me, please here i completely agree with you. and the most important question is that this part must be completed if possible more concisely, although such a question will not be succinctly answered, but the west is ready for the fact that something must be done with this sick man of the world when they said the balkans are the sick man of europe and russia is sick man of the world, there are already some pills for surgery, i don't know what to do with such a russia behind your back

, unfortunately, not everyone understands that it is necessary to build such a russia. not everyone they understand that we need a post-russia model, many still live in the formula, let 's return everything to february 22 , 22, there by the 23rd . we are democratizing russia, they say that even such a method of democratization is possible, it is an illusion. it is absolutely an illusion, and they refused it, but there are more and more experts and politicians who understand that the west must prepare for the scenario of the collapse of russia, the situation of the post-russian space, where will be turbulent processes will take place in which we will have to participate in stabilizing this region, dendinization, about

e-e, punishing criminals, racialization , including the creation of new independent states will help, this is an objective process. vitaly kulyk , political scientist, director of the center for the study of civil society problems , provoked me before your eyes and all my plans went to pieces and we are talking now for exactly 15 minutes about russia will pass with integration, that's nice. thank you, mr. vitaly. well, we're continuing our broadcast, well, now we're going to talk about energy. ivan plachkov , former minister of pavlov and energy, twice chairman of the board of the union of all-ukrainian energy assemblies. i hope we 'll see him now mr. ivan, i'm glad to see you. thank you for finding a time for us on saturday. congratulations. congratulations. so, the state of affairs with the energy

sector is back. this is my first question . how long do i talk to you? i'm not saying a great state of affairs, but a more or less normal state of affairs in winter. are the authorities doing or doing everything that is necessary according to their capabilities, because maybe more is needed, but there are not 100 billion to do everything. but is the authorities doing enough for us to survive the whole winter? let's say it's not worse than it was in the past, well, the situation is extremely difficult , and we probably all understand the state of the energy complex

today. therefore if possible how much money do they have? how much new equipment has arrived ? everything is not being done, i think not, but from the point of view of financing. uh, it continues to work, how does the partisan camps, you know, energodam has its own big one, and so on. well, i am the coordinator of the work of these enterprises, and we see it, and confirmation of that, there are colossal debts there.

kukrenergo to other companies and if we enter in the winter in the name of solving your debts, even if the equipment will work , then there may be very big problems , it is possible to solve them. i believe that it is possible , maybe not in a day or two, maybe not in a month - we don't see that anyone is dealing with this, you know this problem, everyone avoids the alleged non-existence and they don't talk about it, that the energy complex is in such a difficult financial state. well, i would say that there is already a financial collapse and it is connected not only with military actions, he is still connected with an incomprehensible tariff policy and so on . there are a lot of questions. yes, i would support you, and

i 'm not even surprised. there are 39 billion in international reserves of ukraine, that is, there is money. if i understood that there is no money, bri, why are there three , if it is true that 39 billion is at least one and a half times more than usual in our country, 20-25 somewhere, it moved between these in the best years and in the best years now under 40 means money is understanding at least you have problems, but there is a problem that is not being solved, there is no organizational beginning, you are not me, i do not have such coordination. i do not know the ministry of energy , it is supposedly commenting on some things, well, we can see that it is coordinating the situation and, for example, today is not for accelerating the situation with oblgas, they are private, no, they are private, what decisions were made there, what decisions should be transferred to

this company, which belonged to the citizens of russia , energy, what is with them, we also do not know who is in charge and so on, and therefore there are many such questions that need to be resolved. unfortunately, they are not solved, but look, let's talk a little about the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant, tsel, that's my impression, i 'm not an expert, of course, but i have the impression that it's more of a scarecrow , one in front of everyone. here you can't let these two people come here, let's let three nep, these are some kind of artificial eyes and they don't look like systematic , that is, they are just the impression i have that the russians are just having fun, that oh, let's do it

, let's do it, let's do it let's do it. it seems to me. do you see any strategy there regarding what to do with this poor zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant ? well, what is the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant? it is such a huge energy facility , it means power units, a huge territory, a lot of high-tech equipment and management it is very difficult for this object and in the current situation when 50% of the personnel there are 60 ukrainian they left the zaporizhzhia nuclear power station there some part remained and ran into the personnel from the russian atom you know how difficult it is to manage to maintain this facility and it was not for nothing that kiriyenko came to the zaporizhia npp and i think he came to solve organizational issues

, because today russia still feels responsible for the state of rights at the zaporizhia nuclear power plant, and there it monitors the situation and the mission, that's why they have the money there are a lot of problems and as for the future , well, they are there and the explosives are there to install it, where do they install them, they can change the cities, there are military, there are military equipment with ammunition directly directly on the objects as for the roofs of the station, the military can have weapons there and are ready to defend. they understand that there will be an attack, including that we will liberate the zaporizhia nuclear power plant from the point

of view of strategy. i think that well, at least they are preparing in order to damage and destroy a lot of equipment so that after deoccupation it will not be repairable naturally and it will be difficult to restore it so that we can export it and it will be very a big e-e loss for ukraine, this object is very expensive, it costs, i think, from 50 to 70 billion dollars, mr. ivan, look, uh, just uh, he is asking an expert, who understands that kiriyenko came there because he led rosatom for many years, maybe even more tens of years and what the energy experts said about him. he is a capable manager. he really understands how to do it. he was such a person at that time. he was

professional, that is, when he gets to the npp , now there yesterday or today, he can help. well, if he did something so that we understand what is happening there, it is good is he a bad manager, but he is experienced enough? he has been with rosatom quite effectively for many years. rosa has developed there . he built many facilities abroad . they built water stations with new type gauges and so on. as a manager, i think he is very good. he is active and today i think that he came in order for him to decide once again the organizational issues, there are issues with personnel, because rusatam personnel from russia have no great desire to come

to operate at the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant water, they are certified, they understand how it will end. i think that he came to coordinate the situation from the mission of the magat , so that if it wasn't like that from one on the one hand, and on the other hand, to protect the interests of the avocator, they are admissible to all those objects that the inspectors are trying to get into. i think that this is, first of all, a spent nuclear fuel storage pool, uh, this is a reactor compartment. well, we saw a photo of this there is also a dry storage facility for spent nuclear fuel he is very responsible, so there are a lot of issues, which are the client who

came to solve them. or maybe he came to manage some kind of special operation to prepare the equipment of the zaporizhia nuclear power plant in order to during the occupation of the waters of the offensive of the armed forces of ukraine, to destroy as much as possible or to blow up such things at such a level that it cannot be restored and that it has been such a problem for many years, but look at you, sir. now i will ask the question a little more broadly, just leaving literally from your words. that is, you do not rule out that this is the strategy of the russian state and the military leadership of the military-political , that is, wherever they come, you do not rule out that they will destroy fundamentally, that is, so

that it will not be possible to get closer there conditionally for 10 years . that is, we are so we have to think about factories, factories, roads, institutes , etc. and so on and so on, i.e. leave the scorched earth behind . we see that they have turned zavodny in mariupol and so on. i think that this will be a tactic such as what we are forced to leave some territory there , respectively, so that there is nothing left. we remember when the soviet union was retreating, that's how they did it, dniproges was blown up, a lot of buildings were mined, and so on, everything

was blown up, everything was destroyed so that it wouldn't remain. i think she is expected and one more question, too, you know, for broken frostbitten ears, yes, they started hmm, after some kind of fruitful conversation, just share your thoughts. that the russians can also blow up the kursk nuclear plant, which is not in ukraine, but close . well, somewhere on the border, the kursk region, where did it come from? this means and can we even think about it in any way? is this some kind of complete nonsense? well, i think there is no point in discussing it. someone came up with such

an algorithm that supposedly grain, will the equipment in zaporizhzhia be destroyed in order to blame ukraine for what we did, they will do it in kursk well, i think that this is an assumption , they are not serious, as of today, the world has leverage on russia on rosatom that how much is it possible to calculate, let's imagine strong strong people there instead of money, general eisenhower, marshall montgomery, they are ready for anything , is there any strategy, is there any algorithm, what to do, is it possible, is it going to be like that, how will everything be, well, i i would said the money bank is a strong enough person and he did a lot, he did a lot, he did a lot of useful things, he is a brave person and the fact that he is monitoring the situation online

regardless of what he is risking his life i would say he crosses the front line with inspectors. no international organization does this and has never done it, and we also have examples of the red cross and so on. why aren't such powerful sanctions applied and why uh, sorry. we have news and i will be fired from my job, iryna koval. and i give the words i apologize profusely ivan blachko in the former minister pavlov of energy management was on air with us ira please forgive me, i took 13 seconds, i apologize for the word please, we will take even more time for the news i will tell you about the most interesting thing in just a moment and i will give you