[000:00:00;00] and not his initiative, but the man is very good. he does his main work very well, development in this war, hybrid operations , a lot of other things. but it seems to me that it would have been more correct if we had, as in israel, where even the surname of the leaders of the siege is classified information. it's not that evgeny is gone, there is no solution , it's not necessary, it's good that we don't follow the masadas anymore, we follow ukrainian intelligence, that we already have our own spies, thank you, thank you, mr. yevhen , we were in touch with you, yevhen wild public activist former battalion platoon commander aidar head of the national antarctic circle center in a few minutes we will be back sometimes they say i am an allergen they say i have a lot of problems we have many allergens in the world

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, pinned comments , special icons and the possibility of personal communication with the espresso team, click to sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian perspective. in ukraine, our team on the ground and in the studio will inform you about the dynamics of events, see the latest from frantz 24 in ukrainian on espresso with you vitaly portnikov and we let's discuss the main events of this week vitaly portnikov and top experts about the most striking events of the last seven days our guest will be the generator of companion forces , the former national security adviser of the president of the united states donald trump herbert the mat-master we will cut out current topics hot questions authoritative comments and forecasts in the project information marathon with

vitaly portnikov every sunday at 20:10 on espresso hello this is freedom in the morning informational project of radio svoboda top guests every day this is the ship district of kherson live inclusion we work somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut, we tell the main thing on weekdays at 9:00, we are back, the saturday political club continues , we congratulate all our viewers once again, and our interlocutor is olga stefanishyna from the european euro-atlantic integration of ukraine, congratulations, mrs. olga, we congratulate you, congratulations , congratulations, well, the day before, we were literally in nato in vilnius, we can already talk about certain

developments that can be implemented . yesterday, the general sector of nato and anton talked about three packages, it seems, that can be adopted in favor of ukraine on this at the summit, as far as we understand, the president will be in vilnius at the meeting of the nato council of ukraine , what was achieved and what was not achieved on the eve of this. from such results are not very pleasant, but it is very important that there are still no finalized decisions. usually, this is a very detailed process, and all decisions are praised by the conference long before the actual meeting.

is taking place with agreed decisions adopted precisely as regards ukraine, so far no such decisions have been adopted, this means that discussions are ongoing. for us, it is important to be aware of the biopolitics of this summit and to be aware of the need for clear wording regarding ukraine's membership in nato , that is why the dialogue continues. but indeed, as the secretary general noted, two of three packages of solutions have already been agreed, this is the institutional framework, the format of work, and within the framework of the ukraine nato council, and the comprehensive aid program, which provides for all measures to achieving full interoperability with alias ​​well, as it was for sweden and finland, ms. olga, we have some dissonance because our president said that he will not go to the summit in vilnius if there is no concrete solution for ukraine, and he is already going, we know that he will at the summit, that is, there is some hope for us, on the other hand, the head of ukrainian intelligence, kyrylo budanov, said that we will

be disappointed by nato's decision, so what should we not expect from nadiya because of rotation? well, actually the secretary general talked about three blocks of decisions, about two blocks of decisions, i already said the third block of political decisions, the discussion continues, in principle, it is necessary to understand that this year's meeting of nato leaders is full of very strong questions, this issue of ukraine's membership in nato, sweden's membership in nato - this is the issue of security guarantees for ukraine , the leaders of asian countries and japan and e south korea that is, this is a very, very serious meeting, and no matter what happens, we will do everything possible, including physical participation in the summit, which will help to finalize specific final decisions at the level of leaders, tell me that they have appeared now

already public statements of western politicians such as the head of the external political committee of the bundestag, mykhailo roth, who say that ukraine can be accepted into nato with any intermediate outcome of the war and must still be accepted even if the ukrainian territories are not completely liberated and the security guarantee of the fifth the nato article should be distributed to the territory that will be controlled by the ukrainian government at the time of ukraine's acceptance of donations. can you imagine such a hybrid option, such a thing has never happened in history? well, not much has happened since on the other side of anu's history, look at the discussions that are currently taking place as part of preparations for independence, they already go beyond any historical precedents or historical practice of joining napa . to be approved now, and membership itself will take place when the conditions allow, and we are not yet conducting a dialogue about what security conditions are sufficient to

become a member of nato. but in order for this dialogue to begin, we need a political an invitation because without it the official machine, the official procedures will never be published and this dialogue actually will not take place in nato, that is why today, first of all, we are concentrating on a political decision, if there is one, then the next day we will have the opportunity in the format of the ukraine nato council to discuss the issue of fashion, time frames, security conditions, and , god forbid, after returning us to the borders of 1991, after the victory of the quick decision on full nato membership, if there is no unanimity and agreed position on the eve of this, exactly as you have already pointed out, the one who is holding back us president joseph biden directly is because he made his last statement that ukraine is not ready for nato membership now in the midst of the war and

there is no unanimity among the alliance members regarding the acceptance of ukraine into nato right now but we supposedly need to offer a rational way of qualification for joining nato, and while ukraine is not in nato, the united states will provide it with the same security guarantees as israel. i do not want to comment on the issue of reforms and compatibility with nato. the number of their policies that they were compatible with the experience of a full-scale war on the territory of europe, that is, there is a question of discussion here , and actually i also manage political reforms related to ukraine's membership in the eu, so while such statements are made, those reforms are also taking place in the country quickly, not quickly, but this the process continues even in the conditions of a full-scale war. at the same time, a very interesting transformation is taking place in 2008, when the decision to join nato was not

made regarding ukraine, and europe blocked this decision today europe demands the entire eastern flank of europe and the baltic countries and the countries of northern europe unanimously say that ukraine should be able to become a member of nato, this is a very serious change and uh, that's right . it seems to me a union and uh, not an imitation of what votes are equal in alliances. they will only unite the alliance , and radicalization is a negative position regarding decisions related to ukraine . the president or turkey, you saw yesterday, before that he had meetings with the countries of eastern europe and was in bulgaria. hmm, there are many discussions ahead, but today we know for sure that

at least half or most of the allies understand that a political decision on freedom is absolutely possible. let's turn to the question of european integration , what does the situation look like today regarding ukraine's fulfillment of the conditions of the euro commission and when can we really consider the very possibility of starting negotiations with the european union regarding ukraine's accession to the eu? the national political calendar, i mean the ukrainian one and the brussels one, is that such negotiations could not be started at the end of the year, and already today officially two of the seven political recommendations have been recognized as having been fulfilled. but we are talking now about the blocs that are connected with the creation of the media market in wartime and post-war times and with judicial

reform and the formation of judicial institutions. that is, these are the two fundamental blocs, actually. everything depends on us now on how we we are doing our homework, from the completion of tasks related to anti-corruption, the launch of the contest to the constitutional court, and the actual continuation of de-oligarchization measures on a no- basis, in fact, if we demonstrate good political progress in these levels by october . this year, i think that at the end year, we will be able to open negotiations. i would also like to return to the issue of security guarantees for ukraine . what are the united states of america directly talking about, and how do you see them, ms. olga? if they tell us, well, this will be a political decision and they will tell us that ukraine will be in nato, for example, as soon as hostilities there end or there will be some other conditions for this transitional period with security guarantees, what

it should be. of course, i do not know any details, but judging from the negotiations that and the bird that we voiced to our partners , we know for sure that these security guarantees cannot in any way even be fired napersky memorandum, these should be legally binding treaties that provide for long-term military cooperation and mechanisms related to responsibility for military crimes and the issue of sanctions policy, such negotiations are ongoing, they are quite difficult because the war is unprecedented on the territory of europe, and in fact, we understand today that any agreements are no longer included in the framework of any formats that were

effective in the last 70 80 years after the end of the second world war, not everyone is ready to take real leadership in such documents, but i can positively note that today nato as an organization has recognized that security guarantees cannot be individually provided by allies regarding which there are no restrictions on providing a security guarantee, we are allies outside of nato, well, in any case, it is absolutely obvious that when you are at war with a nuclear state or when it is a nuclear state that claims not part of your territory , the main guarantee is how to secure such a non-nuclear country from possible of a nuclear attack well, let's call a spade a spade, and where is this tool, apart from the fifth article of nato, which can protect ukraine from

such a risk, few can, but for today, i think we should watch also according to the processes that take place inside the russian federation and exercises in principle to realize that in less than 4 hours a small military mutiny can lead to a complete destabilization of the state vertical in the russian e-e in russia he is very e-e very revealing this at that time when since february 24 , ukraine did not lose control over the state, that is why, in order for a nuclear attack to take place, the entire chain of military and civilian leadership must work , and to date, there have been some results from those events.

we are observing in the russian federation, it is very unlikely that this will take place , this means that now is the time for the west to take decisive actions to protect its security, to protect its stability, its values, that is why we are already somewhat aggressively insisting on strong, powerful decisions at the summit well, if we are already talking about preventive integration about european integration, then it is real. so when you look at the beginning of negotiations with the european union, how long can the process itself take if we remember that it was not taken away from our neighbors years well, there are 5-7-8 years and how ready are we for such a marathon and how far should i say citizens know you will not be waiting in the european union in 2024 but will be waiting in 2030-32 if we do our homework can it be a more optimistic scenario can be a more optimistic scenario, actually . today

, we also understand that the european commission has proposed 50 billion euros for four years. countries which applied for or was moving towards membership in the european union, therefore the speed of joining the eu will depend on how we plan our reforms related to receiving these funds, my understanding is that we can do it and it is very qualitative and it will allow us to become a member of the european union very quickly without harming our economy. at the same time , it is a rather unpredictable process and indeed a process of centralization with the internal market of the eu, and this is the main part related, not politically related to the student it can be quite long. and today we demonstrated a record time, actually skipping through our mechanism of interaction many stages that took years

before that, so we are quite optimistic . we are preparing for the negotiations . but i can’t give guidance on the terms, but i can guarantee that i am sure that we will allow the european union itself to delay this process, and we must fully implement the association agreement for for the negotiation process to begin and should it be two parallel tracks with uh , what will there be an agreement on association in such a situation? well, we actually don't know even now that the association is because because it works . but at the same time, we are a candidate state for us , other conditions, our parliament adopted almost all the legislation provided for by the association agreement, and all the remaining changes and reforms are provided for by this agreement, they are already being transformed into reforms related to eu membership. that means that

the association provided for cooperation with the eu all the rest of the transformations will already be sent to the membership, this will mean that we must be compatible with the market, our documents must comply with the standards, they must be recognized, that is, this is a much more complicated process, and by the way, are they putting new demands on us regarding the control of the funds that are provided to us for reforms, because the corruption risk during the war did not disappear, and even on the contrary, it increased in the western media, which also hardly contributes to our popularity in this regard , so to speak mentioned about 50 billion euros, this is a lot of money, but even before that, we received a lot of money

- it is 18 billion euros of macro-financial assistance . we have not received everything yet . a financial monitoring system that will combine the work of auditing bodies and law enforcement agencies and the court of auditors, the chamber of auditors of the european union and the european anti -fraud agency, this is a new system that we have will be built, but it will be a very serious control of funds because in the end the european commission reports to the member states and accordingly for each euro we will report to the european commission and the european commission to the member states, that is why this system is actually being built, but it must be said very clearly that all the funds that today

have been sent to the state, they are also under control, and there are no complaints about their waste there. our ministry of finance is such a very powerful watch dog that is actually protects its authority and very strongly controls their use. this is very good, ms. olga, thank you for participating in the broadcast. olga stefanishyna, the vice-prime minister for european and euro-atlantic integration of ukraine, was in direct contact with us. well, we are moving on. petro shevchenko, analyst, graduate student department of international economics of zelin university, we are in touch, welcome mr. peter, let's see. well, let's start with the most sensational publication of the western press devoted to china this week, this is the message that the chairman of the chinese people's the republic of sizinpin personally warned the president of the russian federation, vladimir putin, about the use of nuclear weapons in ukraine. the kremlin has already denied this information in china. they do not comment, but it is interesting . do you believe in the authenticity of this information, that sol irpin could really talk about it with

putin, i believe that this the topic was raised because for china this is a fundamental red line and in general a moment that is related to its global strategy. therefore, this is an issue. it was 100% discussed, another matter is what that was the connotation of this discussion, because the financial times pointed out that it was, as it were, directly such as pressure from china , so personally, the meeting of the water sisinpin in march of last year and, as it were, all of them, as you put it directly in front of the fact of the russian leader maybe so, but maybe it wasn't directly said that you should act as we want, most likely this topic was raised, it was discussed because it is very sensitive for china, but was it directly

done in such a commanding tone? i think that a debatable question regarding exactly that of the shanghai organization. let's sum up its implementation directly. i wonder why iran and belarus are being dragged into the sos. iran has already been dragged into the sco, but belarus may become a participant next year. well, this one did not have such great consequences as last year, but what here is iran, it is moving very proactively in the direction of this block and it is being dragged in. that is, it is profitable after all in this let's say so in this axis, beijing moscow , but also an integral, it is also interested in itself in the fact that they see that eurasia can become more subjective to you in contrast, let's say this is how they imagine this in american global leadership, if we are talking about belarus, then this is a very important such geo-strategic point for beijing

because again, on the one hand, it is logistics to the markets of western europe, and on the other hand, it is a special relationship with minsk that allows such pressure on the russian federation. to affect russia has many fundamental questions for itself, but first of all, the issue of the grain agreement is obvious that kazakhstan is also a country interested in its implementation and that the global south receives grain, that china, by the way, receives ukrainian grain, and russia says that it will not be implemented and now there are no, even now, any real prospects that russia will give up on this desire. well, i will still hypothetically say that with a high probability this agreement will be extended precisely because of the role china and because of the fact that china acts as such a logistician of the countries of the global south. by the way, according to statistics, china is one of the main

recipients of this domestic agricultural production with this grain agreement, that is, if we are talking about china’s global toolkit in relation to the influence on the russian federation, then it is now very powerful, that is, if we take the period of time before the start of a full-scale war and now in china , this lever of influence on the russian elites and in general on, let’s say, even domestic political certain russian issues, has greatly decreased because well, of course, china. he, uh, very much understands the theory of using the economy of the economy to achieve political goals - this is the economy of state craft, and that's why he uses it. he knows exactly what . thanks to him, the russian economy is now afloat, and he actively uses it and to believe that he will not also achieve certain of his national interests, er , political interests, for example, this is naive and

the russian federation knows everything. they are trying to minimize chinese influence wherever they can. but if we if we take it in general terms, now the influence is very big and china, uh, it uses it, for example, this is the very sexy gadget, and it showed that although the russian federation likes the following. now let's strengthen it, but china doesn't care about it anymore, it just realizes its foreign policy goals , like you do you evaluate the virtual ones of the shanghai cooperation organization, the previous non-virtual meeting in samarkand created a huge number of sensations, yes, this meeting , which was hosted by india, somehow did not become a holiday unity, although iran became a full member of the organization. well, as you and i said earlier that this summit was, after all , a derivative of last year's, which was really so breakthrough, and where you already felt that this is really such a geopolitical

block that positions itself as a counterbalance, well, conventionally speaking, there is a numerator and so on, although here, well, that is, it is also a destructive question because, like brics, it wants to position itself as a counterbalance to javen, but after all, it is more about security, geopolitics, and so on. well, if we they said, let's talk about this one ourselves, he was still sluggish and i think that the last role here will be played by these events on the battlefield here in ukraine. yes, because after all, the position of the russian federation is weakening, and china and india are all - right now, they can't find this very strong basis for cooperation, because their potential and competitiveness, because they are natural competitors, it still prevails over a certain potential of their cooperation, and just in case you remember. now that's with this

fashion summit. visited the usa and it was also like this a bell for beijing who said that which simply made it clear that india has its own interests yes it is ready to cooperate calmly but it will not forget about its foreign strategy where china is defined as a challenge and why is india instead of demonstrating a certain association yes it is those parts of the world that she showed naren-romodi in her statement said about a certain split with china , in particular with regard to the territory occupied by pakistan and claimed by india and with regard to this infrastructure object one belt one way well, as the chinese say, there cannot be two suns in the sky, there cannot be two emperors to the earth, likewise if we take this region, especially small southern southern asia, then in south asia china and india are such natural competitors, historical competitors who are competing for

regional primacy and therefore india is now using all opportunities to strengthen and this opportunity, together with the united states of america, to control the growth of china and also contain the growth of china, this is an opportunity for india to strengthen moreover, india has now become the most populated country in the world and this means a very big competitive advantage , first of all, over china and india. they will bet in the region, not well, not on china as before. yes, and already entering the indian market and so on . that is, it is just, well, it is just a bull-politician, it is a real policy when each of the crimeans wants

to maximize their interests and unfortunately often-thick maximization of their interests. it comes out at the expense of precisely. well, the chinese also understand the losses of other countries, and that is why he is trying to increase ties with whom with whom with pakistan here exactly. we are talking about this already very long-term dispute, competition , so enmity between pakistan and india therefore, unfortunately, these interests of china and india will continue to engage in such confrontations despite the fact that it will still try and find a certain balance so that their entire consultation does not become like this uncontrolled, but unfortunately they will not change the very structure of relations in the near future, well, well, in samarkand , when tsimpin came to this summit , the chinese media said that china is the obvious leader for the shanghai cooperation organization to join the organization - it is china. well, here it is on this virtual china itself did not look like a leader. so what is the problem? i think for beijing, it was really such