[000:00:00;00] we'll just take such a big leap and get to the threshold of nato or a letter directly into the seeds . what, what, i've always thought that this is desirable for real, you can explain. come on, because then disappointment can begin. i can already see the elements of this disappointment . nothing has started yet in vilnius, and they are already like that. oh, they won't give this, they won't give that, that's why i have the impression that people have formed the opinion that 100 million american soldiers have already stand on the border with ukraine and ukraine will become a full member of nato on the morning of the 13th and that is absolutely nonsense, where does it come from and do you not think

it harms the peace of ukrainians at all? 000 rush into battle yes, and they already see moscow in front of them and the kremlin, the society of western countries shouts to their politicians let's go, we want to fight we want to go to war and we stood yesterday near the military commissariats, but the world is somewhat different and you know what this is, the loss of m- m even differently, i would say drunkenness from courage, which uh, who could watch, watch. on the one hand, we have inflated expectations as a society, secondly, this is the search for simple solutions, and thirdly, this is magical thinking, you know, if something is said, then the next day it must happen immediately joined nato and all our problems are solved, we leave somewhere in the holosiivskyi district and immediately get

to luxembourg on the streets or somewhere in the district, i don't know which one eh hmm chervonograd , lviv region yes, and immediately we are somewhere in the suburbs of baden-baden, because in reality we understand that the situation on the street is a little different from the average level even in nato countries. reach this level, but in terms of human rights and freedom, it is compared to turkey. yes, we generally need to move in the opposite direction in order for someone to reach this standard. but nevertheless , we always understand that there are average in the chamber and the best examples, and here we are very, very far away therefore, let's adequately express these thoughts about the fact that someone will fight for us. what will be taken into account tomorrow that this is being done like this , simply because of someone's wish. this is absolutely false

, that in reality, in reality, freedom itself now will be much more cool for ukraine than it is possible it was even possible to count here six kudos to our diplomats who do the impossible and to our friends and partners within nato who put their own reputations on the line and go, let's say, into risky diplomatic battles with their partners in order to win this place for ukraine and what will be this optimism , let's say that this summit is really cool in several ways. this is the so-called open door, what is it? it means the following: ukraine can move to nato, this is the statement in bucharest, and nato, in principle, is not against the fact that ukraine will move there

. and then the question of ukraine arises. to be determined no do you say so specifically and at the vinnytsia summit, most likely, there will be certain formulations, most likely it will be very soft for now but nevertheless, who will also declare the goal on the part of nato regarding the accession of ukraine to nato, for example, nato confirms the thesis of the budapest bukharev summit and he will continue to work with ukraine on joining nato, this is very soft. but nevertheless, who is taking too much of ukraine's obligations gradually into nato, or something can be tougher, any other, but the key here is that what about the moment of the vilna site rather than all of ukraine will manage to share the responsibility for our entry, and then on the political side, if we reach all the standards, the security conditions are in place, on the political side, the question arises for nato itself, are they ready to train or not, and here is homework and nato also needs to work a second time we will get specific

programs of cooperation that lead us to situations where they help us out of kindness , emotional situations are formally important to us . now this is what is de facto to fix as de jure to move away from a situation when tomorrow the legs will be tied someone got up somewhere in berlin or some political upheaval in paris or trump comes to washington and help to ukraine maybe just once and it will be spent, but it must be avoided and for this you need to sign specific cooperation agreements, well, on the border of the allies, let's say this is what will happen to communicate and i will talk about this separately, this is what leads to specific numbers, specific money , specific equipment, specific programs , long-term, medium-term perspective , for example, what is said by the united states is the program of an ally outside of nato, like that of israel and this will allow us to plan for the long term and not be afraid of the fact that we are dependent on de facto and not on de jure, and the third point is a guarantee

of security, and here we are moving forward by signing a number of agreements, most likely bilateral cooperation and partnership with nato with individual nato countries, and this is about what is now and what washington said about the alya israeli scenario, all this is not instead of moving into nato, but for the period until nato takes us, and this is very important because the united states was really ready for the alya israel formula a little earlier, but they proposed it as instead of the nato movement, give up on the nato movement, in fact, do not remove this topic and then you will get these buns . we will work in the next north excellent alliance here are three directions in which we will achieve what was impossible to imagine that even a year ago and all this is thanks to the first all-ukrainian

armed forces to our defenders and the defender who definitely choose the space and opportunities for this. ukraine is paying with my blood to stand and endure now, and the diplomats had these diplomatic cartridges in order to achieve victories in their work area as effectively as possible, that is why i am very optimistic about the villian sites of the street, i still have one such very small question may and the answer will be small , it's just my guess, i'm constantly trying to understand the position of washington, who is super helpful but sometimes restrains himself and when i just remembered that the next summit is taking place, it will take place in washington . it may be that he wants this gold medal for himself, as if saving it for himself, and already in washington there will be different moods , of course, in the administration of the united states and so on and so on.

judging by your smile, you have already answered my question correctly. you are absolutely right. this was my next thesis. literally half an hour ago, another broadcast ended . he said exactly that and was about to answer your next question by saying that this is just a free springboard. the oak of the washington summit, which will take place in exactly one year and a few months before the final of the election campaign in the united states, is just at the finish line, and therefore, if breakthroughs are to be expected, then they should be expected in washington and not in vilnius, and such realities must be recognized of course a year ago, but in the end, you know we have been pinching this ceiling for 30 years and what kind of people are we, how fast were we moving, that we periodically rolled back back well, first of all, we need to look in the mirror, nobody owes us anything in fact, in the world, let's look both at ourselves realistically and at the world of useless glasses, and then we can use this year to the maximum to bring all the things that will be laid down

at the vilnius summit as close as possible to raising the question of ukraine's possible accession to nato. i think that then we won’t be able to take it either, but there may be a scheme similar to that of the european union, when a political decision is made in advance with the creation of specific criteria that we must meet after that enters this is already a political decision and the wheels work automatically , i.e. to overtake ahead of time, i think we can count on this at the washington summit . i'm talking to you. i don't follow, but the ukrainian polish presidents are in lutsk, and the question arises. well, there are otsi again. well, i wouldn't call it a dispute. i have the impression that presidents may

not have disputes, but there are disputes in societies. especially if we take galicia, volhynia, modern ukrainian territories, in your opinion. this story can be resolved, or can you imagine it, and i forgive you. ukraine, but as soon as it comes to some contradiction, everyone is against it, because everyone wakes up and says that in the village, such and such killed our people, and i don’t, i don’t know what i should apologize for, and the field says that the bus killed the poles, and i will not apologize, and yes. theoretically on par of presidents in general. friendship is chewing gum, as they used to say in the soviet union, say something, listen. thank god, at least at the level of presidents, there is such a movement now. it opens up great opportunities and at least does not create additional problems

, because very often before the toning, just this happened at a new level. political and the fact that in poland before russia's full-scale invasion of ukraine , let's say right-wing rhetoric dominated, well , it dominates now, in truth, but they also dominated in the direction of ukraine, and it is clear that historical illusionism is one of the components it is understandable, it gave an easy opportunity to mobilize one's constituents, and at that time such actions of the polish authorities could take place , say, in the internal and external perimeter , but today they have changed, and this also creates a window of opportunity from the ukrainian side, there is now good will in order to find a common language but let's talk about first of all within us we need in general here i am with denisenko's plan he made a post about this i agree we need to form our own optics in general for the 20th century they we live from soviet optics we for some reason, in the direction of anti-soviet optics, but er, that is, the highlighting of everything that was

in the struggle with russia by the russian occupation , and thus we do not have our own prism. then we would be able to sit on equal footing with him, and this is with the poles, who have everything very well arranged on their shelves, and the polish view of this period is unambiguously absolute, and look for points of contact in which way we can build an integral joint approach in which to mention all those complicated pages that exist, but at the same time to derive completely new meanings. what would be the unification, this is one component, and the second is maximum cooperation with poland in other spheres, social, economic , etc., or the fewer stereotypes between us, the more cooperation, the less space is left for history to dominate it , you know, when you have a joint business , relatively speaking, all historical issues they somehow recede a little into the background, you remember them but you have a lot of positive

of experience between you and you are ready to recognize one by one the right to your own interpretation of this story, you are simply not up to it and it is not a priority for you oleg i want to ask the last question very strongly in this part of the broadcast . are ukrainians society ready to admit their mistakes it's just that when i read the discussions are very sharp and one of the professors allowed himself to say that bandera is not a god , he didn't criticize him, he didn't, but he said there, well , there was a mistake and there was and there, and without a mistake there will only be as we know jesus is there mohammed, well, them there on the fingers of one and a half you can count the years, ukrainians don't want to hear about their own historical mistakes, we are now heroes, and how can heroes say that listen, 500 years or 400 or 400 or 100 years ago, you were wrong , he is a hero, he is a hero, he does not admit

it, the nation is ready for this, for admitting its mistakes, we now we are holding on to the column due to the fact that there are no walls, and we need to build a better structure and then we will be able to detach ourselves from certain columns and look at them with different eyes . we are now in the survival mode of circular defense , they will understand that we have very few bricks in our hands and accordingly, it is very difficult for us to part with them now, and in fact we need to look at all this more comprehensively, and then when we throw more bricks, when we understand what we are building , then it will be possible to subject the audit to certain figures and it will be possible to raise rather difficult questions on today society is still thirsty for what is ukraine in general, we answered the question who are ukrainians and now it is very easy to see everyone. this question is closed, but who are

ukrainians and who is ukraine, we are just looking i can look at the answers to this in the past, the present, simply by the number of youtube channels that appear now, about from videos about historical figures, about unknown pages of history about specific cities, novels are now being written about the urban culture of lutsk and uzhhorod, other cities, we are opening our land , our territory, we now we are pioneers in our own country, that 's why it's really difficult to admit our mistakes, but we're evolving in the right direction, as far as i'm concerned, oleg seakin, political scientist the head of the platform was the only coordination center with us. thank you, oleg, for finding time for us on sunday. i am always surprised when i see someone on sunday in my programs. because if i had not hosted the program, i would have definitely drank beer, especially since the weather in lviv is not bad today, which is quite exotic . the weather looks good for this city and it is not raining, in the meantime we will talk

about what is happening now in our lives and in our lives yesterday the azovians returned . our heroes brought the president of ukraine to our land, they were met here and but we understand that some azov citizens and ukrainian soldiers are still in captivity and sandra krotevych, the sister of the chief of staff of the azov regiment, bohdan krutevych cherenka, and the association of defenders of the azov families are with us. good health, ms. sandra. thank you for taking the time to talk to us 15 minutes to our broadcast, and if you can hear it, my first question is whether there are any, i am not asking for specifics. are you or your friends, colleagues, your brother, his friends tracking them ? do you have the opportunity to at least track where

the azov people are, where they are captured, where they are, is it possible to be with them to somehow impose some kind of connection. is it impossible to make it shorter, this is such a fairly everyday moment , but it is not at all everyday in these conditions and about which we know how people live in russia , please, ladies, exactly well, first of all, glory to ukraine , glory to the heroes, and then the second thing i want to say is that of course we monitor and of course the command monitors when exchanges take place and they interview their fighters who saw whom they make lists of course they are also informed of those from other exchanges who do not belong to one or have they seen points or have not seen it, so of course they track it as much as possible, and you have additional information, and ah, our main intelligence is dealing with it

, so of course the tracking is going on. we are trying to work as much as possible. who and what what what information is there so of course as much as it is possible uh in this situation we are being tracked ms. sandra look you said that they are at the highest level or maybe you know i understand that maybe it is such a secret about which no one knows or maybe you know that there are some appeals to western intelligence, because we understand that there are very powerful american and british intelligence, maybe there are some contacts and they tell the ukrainian side that the ladies there know about it, we know about it, we know about it , or you don't know about that's all, well, you know, we have so much, let's say yes, i don't know , i don't work in the gur, but in the sbu, of course

, i don't know how much, but if we take into account the fact that we constantly other girls go abroad and communicate with foreigners in this plan, of course they are working and our states and dmytro lupinets are constantly asking for it. of course work is going on in this direction . there is only eh well, yesterday the chief, shall we say, the commander of azov, returned. now it’s the azov brigade, not the regiment. it’s very cool because he will finally lead the soldiers into battle, they will take the liberated territory. take more and there will be

someone to exchange your soldiers for today there is still a lot of communication in this block. does it exist? what do you think? i am not asking about knowledge because it is still a very delicate topic, the exchange of prisoners , all this. what do you think, is this one center in ukraine where all information converges or is it several centers who are engaged in this, relatively speaking, and volunteers who monitor something. both the sbu and intelligence. whether or not this node is located somewhere in one place, we will not say in which and at whom, but simply how much it helps or hinders coordination and understanding the whole picture not only azov residents, but also border guards who are in captivity and sailors who were in captivity and so on and so on. well, look, first of all, this is the work of the sbu and the gur, and secondly, when the soldiers

return from captivity, they are interviewed as the sbu, the gur, and their commanders, and then maybe not immediately. they get the information they want, because the soldiers have to go through the same process, let’s say, in the form that is needed in order to psychologically withdraw a little and maybe communicate with relatives and understand that they indeed no longer in captivity but on the territory of ukraine, then all this information is collected by one service and another service is transferred among themselves. we have a coordination headquarters, which is precisely where representatives of the ministry of internal affairs and the sbu are located, representatives of the gur and representatives of other units that we have defend our ukraine, and i have referring to the brigades, for example, azov and everything, all this information flows into one and then there is a conclusion where who and what and how

to extract them from there, that is, to whom how are they primarily related to who in what condition of course the red cross by the way, the international red cross didn't work and they don't work and well, i have a lot of questions for them. i think you already know about it, i just know, i know international diplomacy and it won't work ms. sandra, this is the fate of any of an international organization. okay, one more question, very important, very important. in russia, 22 azov citizens are being tried. and somehow they were so loud at the beginning, then somehow they became silent , now they don’t shout something, we know something about these azov citizens, about this court, why is there such a break? so when it all started there, all the media, here are these fascists of the bandera railway, this is what we will show them now, and then we conducted something as much as i could

, i did not follow closely enough, we held one meeting and we do not hear anything, we know something about our boys who are being tried by the so-called court, we obviously that it's not from the court and how do the judges speak in russian, ah, well, you know, they do it, of course, first of all to their audience to show that they are judging someone there, and first of all to azov, because in azov they see her -e azov they see those people who simply kicked them out in the 14th year and they have been scratching the itch since the 14th year , the name is also a great achievement for them that they fell into their er trap . to do this in mariupol on azovstal, and here they were so lucky that they fell into their hands and that is why they are making such a show for their er-er for their people, let’s say not only that, there was no reaction

from the side and no support from the other state of the organization. therefore maybe they are not interested in it, first of all, secondly, in the same place a lot of people are being tried, in fact, everyone is being tried, just not everything is being shown on television and in the news, because many people are coming back and talking about the fact that there were a lot of interrogations and so on. we have these courts and for the international community it is ridiculous and this is a violation of both legislation and international legal law and in general everything that can only be imagined and the most important thing is that they return, the most important thing is that they return healthy and alive and of course they are not so healthy anymore how could they return but

to return alive, we have already cured them here and our doctors , er, mrs. sandra. and we can talk about the number of azov citizens, at least hundreds, dozens, how many are there in captivity, now i'm trying to be very careful not to disturb anything, but it's just important to understand it is hundreds tens maybe thousands i just don't know how you them you well how can you find them how many are there in what condition are they maybe do you know or guess please ms. sandra a-ah well look of course we know how many are in captivity because there are the lists when they came out and these lists should have been drawn up by the red cross, the international red cross that was present there, but for some reason they did not do it and then they made inquiries to our e-e to the sbu and guru and to our

e for our command directly but the command knows without the red cross how many remained and how many came out of azov, then in captivity , to date it is about 700 people, 680 people, these are the main figures, let's say so, but there is still a point that there is no information about many of them and many people are missing, so to say exactly the number of captives, there are more than 680 people today. how many are there in azov, and the same if you take the command , they will say how many people they have now missing. still save but i can only say poazova , because i am fortunately very well-versed in other e-e units, so it is necessary to turn

more to the people who are in command, who have information. and if you take together steel in general that's more than a thousand people , look, they're just as simple. it would seem that the sentences are now asking questions, maybe you can find them. i.e., this moment of legal protection, at least 22 , which ones are there that we know about. it is certain that the court proceedings have started there and how are these court proceedings taking place. are there lawyers there or there is no lawyer there? really worked in the prosecutor

’s office . is this the prosecutor’s office of the national people’s republic? what kind of lawyers can there be? this is a country that does not know what law is and what it means to provide a lawyer in accordance with all the legal aspects, but lawyers . of course there were prosecutors there, but we already know what all this was for. and court and the judge was there, but it was for nothing, it was done for the picture of course the lawyers will not defend as well as they could of course the prosecutor will win the given cases of course the court will side with the prosecutor and not the lawyers well the lawyers of course they won't even try

to somehow protect all this clowning for their environment is the maximum thank you very much sandra krutevich sister of the chief of staff of the azov regiment bohdana krutevich member of the association of families of defenders of azov from the evil of steel thank you for finding time for us in sunday now i finally understood that everything is fine with us now i finally understood after talking with ms. sandra why did the russians want to get medvedchuk who in the early 80s of the last century seemed to advocate for stus i guess they are now teaching their lawyers to advocate like that -e-e-e-e-e people from azovstal as at one time a-e lawyer medvedchuk e-e was engaged in the defense

of the ukrainian genius vasyl stus. i think that now they have passed all the training from the medvedchuk bug already in moscow and some lawyers came to them he says as he should defend so that the innocent person is guilty. i think so now. at least i know why putin so wanted to get medvedchuk so that he could teach. finally, now we will have a plot and an advertisement, and the whole plot is an advertisement, so i'm saying goodbye in 10 minutes. i think we'll see each other again and we will fly with you all the way to kazakhstan like this and now the advertisement and the plot, a key episode of the first stage of the war, russian troops advanced to the capital from both banks of the dnieper , ukrainian defenders in kyiv region, chernihiv region