[000:00:00;00] the fact is that the alliance, not individual allies, namely the alliance, will be for ukraine. well, the actual movement forward, since, as i said, there will still be a new plan for the vision. it is called whatever you want, and we need to understand and what to do for it, discuss how we will jointly implement it well, that's exactly what the council is for, to say that the council is in some way positive news, so definitely, is the council a substitute for what we need, well, of course not. but nevertheless, we are gradually building the framework of our membership in nato - this is one of the elements ok, we need to build this framework together with our nato allies as soon as possible, mr. pavly, look at the rules of television , we have to go to

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turn ukrainians into small russians . information war chronicle projects with olga len tuesday thursday friday at 17:10 on the tv channel espresso wow hello this is freedom morning information project radio svoboda top guests every day this is ship kherson district live inclusion we are somewhere in the vicinity of bahmut we tell the main thing on weekdays at 9:00 the war in ukraine is the main topic

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, watch the economic news project with andriy yanitsky on weekdays at 8:10 on espresso, the world during the war is again on the espresso tv channel before continuing the conversation with pavel clinics, i looked on youtube at a channel created especially for our program, a report during the war , so now we have 1,162 people watching, but this is only on this special channel, there are still people who watch the general espresso. nato and we asked this question and answers joining the alliance long-term support is your option 199 people have already given their answers thank you so much 20 people 20% believe that a-a will promise to join

nato 76% who will promise long-term support well, your option is four percent, write your options in the comments. and after youtube publishes this program , you will be able to read them. so i am returning to the conversation with pavlo klimkin, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine 2014-2019, mr. pavly, see during the past day, two editions of politico and the nicer time was asked about what else they can offer us at the nato summit , and one of the things they talked about was security guarantees, and if a politician writes about the fact that some countries in particular the united states of america is inclined to offer us security guarantees like israel's. that is, we will support your army, we will expose you to intelligence, we will give you various materials so that you yourself can be able to, er, face

any threat that you may face after the end of the russian war , the financial times wrote that there is another category of people who say in the middle of nato , leaders who say that it is better to tell ukraine what if against it there will be some kind of military threat, a military invasion, then the nato countries will either jointly or somehow separately provide it with military support , that is, they will fight for hire, we will not discuss these military issues with you right now, i would like to hear your opinion regarding the political aspect of these two e- there are such decisions for us that maybe we can hear in vilnius , that is, for us, what was more important, after all, was to send such a message to russia that

he would never come to us again in his life, in fact, the first thing is not excludes the second, on the contrary, to give us the means to defend ourselves, this is one side , and it is very important to get a commitment that this will not be the subject of further negotiations , but let's now talk about tanks, and now about planes. and what we actually need this model, sometimes they call it israeli, but it is not very similar to the israeli one. israel has nuclear weapons. as you know , nuclear weapons did not prevent wars in conflicts, in particular, the yom kippur war in 1973 took place when israel was already was nuclear

weapons, but most importantly, israel talks with the united states and even agrees. and what does it mean to be better in the military sense in relation to israel's enemies, what does it mean to have a qualitative military advantage, and if we talk about it, we should also have such a discussion with our key allies, and maybe to know directly, this also involves financial assistance. we cannot carry this burden indefinitely, it is clear now during the war. but after the war, we cannot give a crazy part of what we have only for defense. well, if not there will be security. and how will recovery then take place? who will invest in ukraine at all then? and the second part is that it is normal to say that if russia does something, then there will be relevant ones and most likely

we need to talk about such a mix. if you want a mix of these options, we need their means and we need support and we need guarantees, but it is very important to understand that this whole story should be considered by us exclusively as a transition to membership in the alliance and not as a substitute , since it replaces membership in nato from the point of view of solidarity, unity, uh, well, if you want of such a concrete nature of the obligations that are there. well, in the end, well, how much will it cost, because the option of ensuring our security through, you know, the actual security of nato, is it the cheapest among us? well , when we have a nuclear umbrella, some others will be much cheaper, and this is absolutely obvious, so we can talk about a combination

of the first and second option, but it is by no means a substitute, that is, what we will have and can have in the future before joining the alliance. but in no case in the future, since it is not neither a permanent nor an effective solution. it is clear. well, i will once again remind our viewers about what is possible. at 1:55 p.m., and given nato's punctuality, it will most likely be the case at 1:55 p.m. nato secretary general jenston berg will attend a joint conference with the president of lithuania sitting on a guitar and this will be the first press conference and the beginning of the work of the summit is expected tomorrow sometime in the afternoon there will be another press conference in the morning and in the afternoon they will gather for the first working meeting well, let's get on with it, mr. pavlo

let's finish with nato, there is one more issue that i want to discuss with you very strongly , really very strongly. from turkey, our azov citizens, who, according to the agreement with the russians, should not be returned because they should have remained there on the territory of turkey . please tell me what or who could promise something to the president of turkey, because erdoğan, why did he so openly sneeze at the agreement with putin and returned our boys, allowed us to take our boys to ukraine well, first of all, if the agreement is public and this agreement is one reality and if

it is conceptual, then it is absolutely different how can one understand -e like a-a putin in a completely different way, besides, when you have other conceptual agreements violated , then why not violate this particular one. it is quite logical that moscow is playing with the idea of ​​ending the grain agreement, it is trying there she tries to blackmail everyone

to put udan in a difficult situation and to put him in a situation where he has to put pressure on others , there is something there, uh, to negotiate with western partners, uh, it will not be possible to use dan for this. but, in particular, this is of course very, very important. but at the same time, jordan has created a strong position for himself to talk to putin. there is a chance that putin will come to turkey in august, and at the same time, i cannot imagine that putin did not know about this, i do not think that there was his approval there, but none the less the turks they informed about this and for many who are watching this in the world and in russia itself , this is evidence and a continuation of the story about putin's weakness

. that is, it continues to work. statements and regarding our perspective in nato, let it be a political declaration of course, irda does not say that he is ready to vote for it directly for freedom, but nevertheless from turkey and against the background of difficult negotiations with finland, sweden this is quite vagoma as vagoma, and what we are starting the joint production of weapons means that we work together on dragons on other weapons systems, and this also means that dan wants to be independent, he does not want to see himself only as a unique moderator between putin's events , he wants to see himself as a unique leader in a unique country, and he is consistently working towards this that is, we can say that peacemaker serdogan is returning because last year

he already tried to engage in peacekeeping activities, but nothing came of it, and now he is coming back again. i think so, but it is very important that his peacemaking is strong, that he does it from a position of strength , he started with this and if he will continue like this in the future, this is not a bad situation. well , it seems to me that he will speak from a position of strength , because information appeared that the president of the united joe is not against the united states and even says that it is not that they are against and that the f16 fighter jets that ankara is asking for will benefit ankara and that these fighters will be given to ankara, so i think he will now start his point of view more and more strongly regarding how to stop the war in ukraine to advance, well, i personally think so, but there is also the issue of the grain agreement , don’t you think that now, after

he freed the azovians, now the grain agreement is valid only until the 17th and after the 18th, russia is very strongly threatens her not to continue the fact that after the 18th he will continue to act from the position of power that you talked about, that is , will there be a statement that even if this agreement is not extended, turkish ships, which are obviously nato ships, will accompany these grain caravans eh hmm caravans on the black sea can this be and is quite possible and what will russia do then, well, these ships will go with grain if russia attacks or detains them, it receives a mad blow eh

in its understanding from the western countries it will continue to spoil its historical relations not only with turkey, this is also clear, but as for the f16, well , they are not so necessary in the 16th, he has them, he needs their modernization , because now not only flying platforms are needed, now what is needed is something that works and there is a chance that adansy will get it, this is also part of the negotiations surrounding the membership of finland, in particular, sweden in nato, although the interatsia always says that no, no, this is something completely different - these are two parallel tracks, so ordan now actually has a unique chance, most likely it is the last cadence the president of turkey, let's see, but this is not a question of him as a politician - it is a question of him as a person who has certain

health problems there, we saw it during the election campaign, of course we wish him health and all the best, but also we want him to continue to promote his position as a strong leader and we hope for that, we really hope. this is how you speak from a position of strength, so that he acts in , especially in the matter of how to help speed up peace in ukraine thanks to our victory over the russians. well, look. if we are still talking about turkey , please tell me that another very important meeting is planned for this evening, well, it is important for sweden, it will be attended by nato secretary general jenn stoltenberg, the same president of turkey and its president and prime minister of sweden ulfstrirsson and again referring to some information sources, including politicians, say

that erdogan has already been squeezed in relation to sweden in nato, what do you think about it? i think that they have squeezed this one verb, but in fact he has also received something sweden made changes to the anti-terrorist legislation, changed well, not what it stands on, but sweden stands on the supremacy of the right to freedom of speech and many things but nevertheless, jordan will say well, i got what i wanted and he has such a chance and here is a chance to look the winner of all and i really hope and i believe that the chance of this is much more than 50%, that tomorrow or the day after tomorrow sweden will be welcomed into nato. wow, that would be interesting, and can you imagine what a howl in the marshes after that, because they

always said we want less nato near its borders. first, they received a thousand kilometers of the nato border with finland , now they are getting more. well, a little less , still a lot of nato border, and it is the same with sweden. if it goes in this sequence , they will soon. well, not soon, but in in the near future , there will also be a nato border in ukraine. oh, what is going on in the marshes? please tell me about what you have read. do you know how they are reacting to the messages that are now coming from the nato summit, and before the start of nato in lithuania ? they are serious about this, who are the russians, do you think they understand so far the situation for them is in the sense of a free fall, you see what is happening in relation to turkey, you see what

is happening in the context of preparation, exactly that nata, and this is actually not only not the end, this is a real beginning, this will be the result of further development, they have significant problems now already with the macro-financial situation, they are seriously discussing the possibility of reducing budget expenditures up to 10%, so far it is internal, but what did the whole of russia hold on to the economy is based on infrastructure and the fact that they fueled the war on nuclear power, but the price of gas is clear to us. where are they driving this gas?

called a gas station controlled by the mafia. she is starting to experience problems with the functioning of this particular gas station, and this means that in general, the strategy of the west is to make thousands of holes in them. strategies to be implemented further, or it is necessary to negotiate, but to negotiate, definitely not on your own terms, as putin wanted, but on completely different terms. well, on other terms, what are they? i am interested in broadcasting. because it seems to me that on the contrary, now, from the countries of the european union, the countries of the west, nato member countries, there are statements that after the victory of ukraine , ukraine will approach the negotiations from a position of strength and then negotiations. well, negotiations about what about

uh capitulation, and i am talking about the desire of the russian elites, and they want a certain compromise, but they also see that the west , as a matter of fact, now, as part of the west, we do not see a compromise that will leave some version of the status quo, we believed in ourselves, the west believed us well, it is gradually starting to believe in itself and everything the west has been doing lately is raising rates so very gradually yes, much less than we would like but it has become very, very much and russia has already understood it well, the elites will help us somehow they will become something like that, well, i would not like to call them allies, but situational allies during the collapse of russia, well

, they will definitely not become allies . they wanted to call it that. er lose your they want to preserve the conceptual character of this regime , but they want to live peacefully , they want to have access to the west, they continue to hope for this. actions can create its dependence on china, which will be very, very difficult to roll back, so that the russian elites are also faced with a difficult choice and to keep their own and then it is not known where to go at all, remember how in russian

folk tales, you go left, right, forward and you definitely lose something, so we have to create a situation for them, wherever they go there, they lose and when they are there, they also lose, and they lose radically, well, it really is very important to take up this matter but they are cholera, i will use such a word these are the permanent loopholes on the side they are looking for, they have established and implemented sanctions against the oil trade, yes they are these loopholes, today i read on the internet that india continues to be the largest importer of russian oil if, for example, in 2014, they are only i no longer i remember exactly how many 2 million barrels seem to have been bought, now there are 40 million barrels of russian oil, so we still have to somehow find it, you know , so that when russia comes to this pillar on which it is written to the right you will go where you will lose you will go left

you must lose and you will go straight where you will lose so that it really meant that you will lose something that you can go there and then go around and then go around again and you will get where you want to go i really wish they would lose it mr. paul i thank you very much for participating in today's program thank you for your expertise answers well, we are getting closer together to our victory and we are getting closer to the moment that you just said about, so that russia will come to this moment where it will no longer see where to go next and that this will be the moment of its end this was pavlo klimkin minister of foreign affairs of ukraine 2014-2019 years, as you remember. now we are preparing. very soon , a joint press conference of the secretary general of the north atlantic alliance, stoltenberg, and the president of lithuania should start.

the press conference will take place the day before the beginning of the alliance summit in the same lithuania in the same vilnius. well, now i still have time before the press conference starts to look on youtube to see how you are and how active you are on youtube, so look at now on a special channel created especially for the world at war program 1446 people , i bow to you all thank you for watching , a lot of us are also watching on the general espressov channel, and thank you, of course, i cannot deny thanks to those who watch us on the air of espresso tv channel, at least where we are not turned off the marshmallows. thank you all. and now 317 people gave their answers to the question about what they will promise to ukraine at

the nato summit. believes long-term support is 72% and your option is seven percent well, to be honest, if you are interested in knowing if you are interested in knowing how i voted, then i myself voted long-term support and as we talked with mr. pavel about what be long-term support yes it can be exactly as he said according to the model called israeli although it is not very israeli this is when nato member countries will help support our army give us weapons give us intelligence data give us any other materials for that so that we ourselves can face any threat that we may face in the future, it is obvious that we are talking about the russian threat, because what other threat can we face in the future, only the threat

of our northeast, unfortunately with neighbor well, the second option is when the nato countries sign that after the war they will provide us with this help, that is, in the case of aggression, it is obvious that we are talking about russian aggression, they will be with their troops on the territory of ukraine and, together with our ukrainian troops, will jointly defend our territory. let's see what will happen. we already have, as i said at the beginning of today's program, a very important statement, which is not a statement, but information that came from the minister in vilnius. minister of foreign affairs of ukraine, dmytro kuleba, said that the nato allies agreed to cancel the issue of self-determination as a mandatory condition for ukraine's entry into nato, they canceled it, and in this way they are bringing us closer to membership in the alliance