[000:00:00;00] this is the mechanism of the commission, a good mechanism. nevertheless, this council was created against the background of the fact that the russian nato council is nowhere to be found. she says that the attitude towards ukraine will never be second to none, that we are at the same table and no one like the hungarians will then try to manipulate it. there to delay or say we are not going to play we are not playing the poet's path is important for us it is very important for the council to discuss serious issues i.e. our security our defense mother-in-law the alliance no individual allies, namely the alliance does for ukraine well and actually moving forward, because as i said, there will still be a new plan, a new line, call

it whatever you want, and we need to understand and what to do about it, discuss how we will implement it together. the news is so definitely whether the council is a substitute for what we need, well, it is clear that it is not . nevertheless, we are gradually building a framework with our membership in nato - this is one of the elements . good. we need to build this framework together with our nato allies as soon as possible. mr. pavly, look, according to the rules of television, we have to go to commercials now, unfortunately, but it will be short. i ask you to stay in touch with us and we will meet with you and the audience already . literally in a few minutes, there are

two-in-one discounts on nailer 10% in the pharmacies podorozhnyk pan and oschad, i returned, i was sad, but not combispasm, leave combispasm, the power that tames your pain, so that ukrainians don’t think about so that they don’t talk, the first place still comes out , war, war, and our victory, only on espresso from monday to sunday, completely different spheres human activity sports health politics the return of crimea military analytics nine anchors journalists experts opinion leaders in real time about the most current events through the prism of war in

the author's projects on espresso there is a war going on and not only for the territories it is also a war for the minds russia throws millions of oil dollars in order to turn ukrainians into little russian ukraine , the state of the highway, analysis and analysis of information about ukraine by russian propagandists, specific facts and methods by which hostile propaganda turns people into obedient zombies vote residents of the ldr let's counter the information attacks of the russians in the project of the chronicle of the information war with olga len tuesday thursday friday at 17:10 on the espresso tv channel every week on saturdays the political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world vitaly portnikov the host of espresso and invitations experts based on facts give your assessment and forecast of the development of events, you want to understand how our today will affect our

tomorrow, watch saturday's political club, what saturdays are on espresso congratulations, this is freedom life on the radio freedom we have already come to the very change the following shots may shock you news from the scene live kamikaze drone attacks political analytics objectively and meaningfully there is no political season exclusive interviews reports from the hottest points of the front freedom life frankly and impartially draw conclusions yourself the world under the time of war is again on the air of the espresso tv channel, before continuing the conversation with pavel klink, he looked on youtube at a channel created especially for

our program, a report during the war, so in 1,162 people are watching us now, but this is only on this special channel. there are still people who watch on the general espresso channel. and here is the question that was asked: what will be promised in ukraine at the nato summit, and we asked this question and the answers: joining the alliance , long-term support, your option 199 people gave their answers. thank you so much. 20 people. 20% believe that they will promise to join nato. 76% will promise long-term support. and your option . four percent write your options in the comments. and after youtube publishes you will be able to read this program. so i return to the conversation with pavlo klimkin, minister of foreign affairs of ukraine 2014-2019, mr. smokes, see during the past day, two editions of politico and time magazine asked about what else they can

offer us at the nato summit, and here it is is one of the things they talked about security guarantees, and if a politician writes that some countries, in particular the united states of america, are inclined to offer us security guarantees like israel's , that is, we will support your army, we we will expose you to intelligence data, we will give you various materials so that you yourself can have the opportunity to resist any threat that you may face after the end of the russian war, the times wrote that there is another category of people who say within nato leaders who say that it is better to tell ukraine that in the event that there is a military threat against it, a military invasion, then nato countries

will either jointly or somehow separately provide it with military support that is, they will fight for her, and we will now discuss precisely these military issues with you. i would like to hear your opinion regarding the political aspect of these two decisions for us, which perhaps we can hear in vilnius, that is, for us, what is more important after all, it was in order to send such a message to russia that he will never come to us again in his life, in fact the first does not exclude the second, on the contrary, to give us the means to defend ourselves, this is one side, and it is very important to get a commitment about the fact that this will not be the subject of further negotiations, but let's now talk about tanks and now about airplanes. and what we actually need is that sometimes

this model is called israeli, but it is not very similar to the israeli one. israel has nuclear weapons. as you know, this nuclear weapons did not prevent wars in conflicts, in particular, the yom kippur war in 1973 took place when israel already had nuclear weapons, but the main thing is that israel talks with the united states and even agrees. and what does it mean to be better in the military sense in relation to the enemy that it means to have a qualitative military advantage and if we talk about it we also have to have such a discussion with our key allies and may know directly this also involves financial assistance we

cannot carry this burden indefinitely now of course during the war but after the war we we cannot give a huge part of what we have only for defense. well, if there is no security , how will the restoration take place then, who will invest in ukraine at all, er, and the second part is of course to say if if russia does something then there will be relevant ones and most likely we need to talk about such a mix . if you want a mix of these options. we need their means and we need support. as a transition to membership in the alliance, and not as a substitute, since it replaces membership in nato from the point of view of solidarity, unity, uh, well, if you want

such a concrete nature of the obligations that are there, well, in the end, uh, well, how much it will cost because the option of ensuring our security through nato and the actual security of nato is the cheapest among us. if we have a nuclear umbrella, then some others will be much cheaper and it is absolutely obvious that is why we can talk about a combination of the first and second option, but by no means not a substitute, i.e. what we will have and can have in the future before joining the alliance . but in no case is it a future, because it is neither a permanent nor an effective solution.

possible at 1:55 p.m., and given the punctuality of nato , it will most likely be so at 1:55 p.m., the secretary general of the north atlantic alliance, jens toltonberg, will attend a joint conference with the president of lithuania gitanas nauseda, and this will be the first such press conference, and the start of the summit is too tomorrow expected sometime in the afternoon there will be another conference in the morning, and in the afternoon they will gather for the first working meeting . well, mr. pavlo , let's finish this with nato. there is one more issue that i want to discuss with you very much, really, really tell me, please, that the president of ukraine, volodymyr zelensky, was returned during his european, asian, and asian tour, because the malaysian half was also part of turkey, so he returned our azov citizens from turkey, who, according to the agreement with the russians, should not be returned

. because they they should have stayed there on the territory of turkey. please tell me what or who could have promised something to the president of turkey, because it was erdogan who openly sneered at the agreement with putin and returned our boys and allowed them to take our boys to ukraine well, first of all, if the agreement is public and this agreement is one reality. and if it is conceptual, then it is absolutely different. how can it be understood in one way, and putin in a completely different way, besides, when you violate other concepts agreement , why not violate this one, and it is quite logical that moscow is playing with the idea of

​​terminating the grain of the agreement, she is trying to blackmail everyone, she is trying to put herself in a difficult situation and put him in a situation where he has to put pressure on others there eh to negotiate with western partners will not be able to use dan for this. he showed it very clearly, not only because our defenders have returned, but in particular, this is of course very, very important. but at the same time, jordan has created a strong position for talking to putin, there is a chance that putin will come to turkey in august, and at the same time i can't imagine that putin didn't know about it, i don't think

there was an agreement, but nevertheless he informed the turks about it and for many who are watching this in the world and in russia itself testimony and continuation of the story of weakness putin, that is, it continues to work. and this narrative is gradually entering more and more , but as dan was clear enough in his statements and regarding our perspective in nato, let it be a political declaration of course , and iorda does not say that he is ready to vote for it directly for freedom. but nevertheless from turkey and against the background of difficult negotiations with finland, sweden it is quite vahoma as vahoma a-ah that we start

joint production of weapons that we work together on dragons on other weapons systems and also this means that dan wants to be he does not want to see himself as an independent person, only as a unique moderator between putin's events, he wants to see himself as a leader is unique in a unique country, and he consistently goes for it. that is, we can say that serdogan, the peacemaker, is returning because last year he already tried to engage in peacekeeping activities, but he has nothing it worked out and now he is coming back again. i think so, but it is very important that his peacemaking is strong, that he does it from a position of strength, he started with this and if he continues like this to continue. this is not a bad situation. well, it seems to me that he will speak from a position of strength because there was information that the president

of the united states, joe baide, is not against it and even says that it is not what they are against. and what about the f16 fighter jets that ankara is asking for? will benefit ankara and that these fighter jets will be given to ankara, that's why i think he will now increasingly start his point of view on how to stop the war in ukraine to promote well, i personally think so, but there is also the issue of the grain agreement, don't you think that now after he released the azovians, now the grain agreement is valid only until the 17th and after the 18th, russia is very heavily burdened by it. do not continue the fact that after the 18th, he will continue to act from the position of strength that you talked about, that is, will there be a statement about that that even if this agreement is not extended, turkish ships, which are obviously nato ships, will accompany

these grain caravans along the black sea. will they be attacked or will delay it receives a mad blow eh in its understanding from the countries to the west it will continue to spoil its relations with turkey not only with turkey it is also clear but as for the f16 jordan not so much and in the 16th he has them and he needs them modernization, because it is needed right now and not only flying platforms, what is needed now is something that works and there is a chance that i will get naansy, this is also part of the negotiations surrounding the membership of finland, in particular, sweden in nato, although

he always says that no, no, this is something completely different - this two parallel tracks, so that ordan now actually has a unique chance , most likely he is the last term as the president of turkey, we will see, but this is not a question of him as a politician - it is a question of him as a person who has certain health problems there, we saw it during the election campaign we of course, we wish him health and all the best, but we also wish him to continue to iron out his position as a strong leader, and we hope for that, we really hope. this is how you speak from a position of strength, so that he acts

especially in the question of how to help speed up peace in ukraine thanks to our victory over the russians well, look, if we are still talking about turkey, please tell me that another very important meeting is planned for tonight, well, it is important, important for sweden, the secretary general will be present at it nato and anne stoltenberg are the same president of turkey and erdogan and prime minister of sweden ulf kristi terson and again referring to some information sources, including politico , they say that erdogan has already been squeezed regarding sweden in nato, what do you think about it? i think they pressed this one verb, but in fact he also got something. sweden made changes to the anti-terrorist legislation , changed well, not what it stands on, but sweden stands on the supremacy of the right

to freedom of speech and many things. less irdan will say well, i got what i wanted and he has such a chance and here is a chance to appear the winner of all and i really hope and i believe that the chance of this is much more than 50%, that tomorrow or the day after tomorrow sweden will be welcomed into nato wow, that would be interesting can you imagine what a howl in the swamps after that, because they always said we want less nato near our borders. first they got 1000 km of the nato border with finland, now they get more. of such a sequence, they will soon receive well, not soon, but in the near future, also the nato border in ukraine. oh, what is there in the swamps , the howling of a certain victim, but please tell me about what you have read, do you know how they

react to the messages that are now received from the nato summit and before the start of nato in lithuania, how serious are they about this, they are the ukrainian sector , they understand that the situation for them so far is in the sense of a free fall, you see what is happening with regard to turkey, you see what is happening in the context of preparation that's exactly nata and it's actually not only not the end, it's er, it's a real beginning, it will be the result of further development, they have significant problems now already with the macro-financial situation, they are seriously discussing the possibility of reducing costs

of the budget up to 10%, so far it is internal, but what was the whole russian economy based on infrastructure and the fact that they fueled the war on nuclear power, but the cost of gas is clear to us. where are they driving this gas away ? the whole machine, which maken once called a gas station controlled by the mafia. she begins to experience problems with the functioning of this particular gas station, and this means that in general, the strategy of the west is to make thousands of holes in them. it works and works so far controlled, putin understood this, but russian planes understood that they will think carefully about whether to allow this strategy to be implemented further, or do you need

to negotiate, but negotiate definitely not on your own terms , as putin wanted. i'm interested in broadcasting. because it seems to me that on the contrary, now, from the countries of the european union, the countries of the west, nato member countries , statements are being made that after the victory of ukraine , ukraine will approach the negotiations from a position of strength and then the agreement well, the agreement about what about the capitulation and i am talking about the desire of the russian elites and they want a certain compromise, but they also see that and the west we actually now as part of the west we do not see a compromise that will leave some version of the status quo

we believed in ourselves, the west believed in us well, it is gradually starting to believe in itself and that's all what the west has been doing lately is raising rates so very gradually yes , much less than we would like but it has become very, very much and russia has already understood this well, these are the elites will help us somehow will become something like that, well, i would not like to call them allies, but situational allies during the collapse of russia, well , we are allies . i would not like to call it that.

to lose their own, they want to preserve the conceptual nature of this regime, but they want to live peacefully, they want to have access to the west , they continue to hope for this. before the point of no return, when further actions can create its dependence on china , which will be very, very difficult to roll back, so that the russian elites are also faced with a difficult choice to save theirs and then it is not known where to go at all, remember how in russian folk tales you go to the left forward to the right and you are bound to lose something, but we have to create a situation for them wherever they go, they lose and when they are on the spot, they also lose, and they lose radically, well, it really is very important to tackle this

but here they are cholera, i use such a word, uh, these are permanent loopholes from the side, they are looking for, established, introduced sanctions against oil trade, yes, they are these loopholes, today i read on the internet that india continues to be the largest importer of russian oil, if, for example, in 2014, they are only me i don't remember exactly how many 2 million barrels , it seems they bought 40 million barrels of russian oil, because you have to find some way, you know , so that when russia comes to this pillar on which it is written, go to the right. where will you lose? if you go left you have to lose and if you go straight where will you lose so that it really means that you will lose something that you can go there and then go around and then go around again and you will get where you want to go i would really like them to lose it mr. pali i thank you very much for your participation in today's program. thank you for your expert answers. well, we are getting closer together to our victory and getting closer to the moment that you just said about, so that russia will come to this moment where she will not see anymore

. where to go next. and for them, this will be her moment. it was pavlo klimkin, the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine in 2014-2019, as you remember. now we are preparing now. very soon , the joint press conference of the secretary general of the north atlantic treaty organization stoltenberg and the president of lithuania should start. before and this will take place for this reason, the press conference will take place the day before the beginning of the alliance summit in the same lithuania in the same vilnius. well, now i still have time to watch before the press conference begins on youtube to see how you are and how active you are on youtube , so watch now on a special channel created specifically for the world at war program 1446 people, i

bow to you all. thank you for watching. and i thank you, obviously i cannot deprive those who watch us on the air of the espresso tv channel , at least where we were not turned off the air . thank you all. and 317 people gave their answers to the question about what they would promise to ukraine at the nato summit, we offered you three options for answers and here is joining the alliance, 21% consider long-term support 72% and your option seven percent well , to be honest, if you are interested in knowing if you are interested in knowing how i voted, then i voted for long-term support myself and since we talked with mr. pavel about what, what , what kind of long-term support it can be. yes, it can

be exactly as he said, according to the model that is called israeli. although it is not very israeli, it is when nato member countries will help support our army give us weapons and give us intelligence give us any other materials so that we ourselves can face any threat we may face in the future obviously we are talking about the russian threat because what other threat are we in the future, we can face only the threat of our northeastern neighbor, to our great regret. well, the second option is when the nato countries sign that after the war they will help us, that is, in the case of aggression, it is obvious that we are talking about russian aggression, they will all have their troops on the territory of ukraine and, together with our ukrainian troops, jointly defend our territory. well, let's see what will happen

. we already have as much as i already said at the beginning of today's program. - not yet a statement, but information that came from the very one in vilnius. the minister of foreign affairs of ukraine , dmytro kuleba, said that the nato allies had agreed to cancel the e. they canceled the condition for ukraine's entry into nato, and in this way they are bringing us closer to membership in the alliance . it is obvious that we still need to do a lot of things ourselves . not just an open door for us, but we are really waiting for us and we