[000:00:00;00] and the information that you have will be the main messages. what do you think and how do we know that it is the american position that was facilitated by some formulations that do not suit ukraine very well , that is why it is extremely important that this meeting of the leaders of the two states still takes place, it will take place after the meeting of the nato council of ukraine and therefore it will be interesting to see if we will achieve any. that is, we do not expect statements , but some documents after this council. and to clarify the ukrainian position that despite our criticism, we understand all the support and appreciate the support we receive from lyceum students, but that there will also be certain explanations from the american side and why they still supported such, well , much softer wording than what

was hoped for the ukrainian side is correct. but regarding the information spread by the washington post that the delegation of the united states seemed to be angry with president zelensky for his post criticizing nato, what is known about it and exactly how is it the anger of the american delegation. let's do this can affect the positions at the table of the bilateral meeting between biden and zelensky. i think that it will not affect the bilateral meeting from what we saw. in the room, and he canceled his speech. and you can imagine that most likely after the statement of the ukrainian president, after everyone saw the text, he did not want to comment on the emotions that naturally caused the statement of the ukrainian president, or in fact, it continues. everyone understands that today there will be more statements about ukraine, about russian

aggression, about everything related to our issues, and according to the end of the summit , usually very sharp statements are not made for that well, when you understand how can you you cannot influence, the main work usually takes place on the sidelines and we have seen the ukrainian delegation at the highest level since the morning . recently, these can still be adopted here, new decisions can be made, let's now focus on how the ukrainian side should cooperate with the biden administration , because we understand, and you yourself said about it , that the united states actually influenced the fact that such a soft wording was precisely of this final committee, that is, as ukraine now has , well, it is obvious already in bilateral history to cooperate with the united states in order to prove that kyiv deserves to receive this invitation and become a

full member of the alliance. well, let's be honest that not only unfortunately, the united states had other partners who supported this position and who were ready to support it. therefore, the situation here should not only be the responsibility of the united states, but the next summit in july . not only work for the ukrainian side, for ukrainian experts, politicians, diplomats, and until then, we expect this meeting in 15-45 minutes, and in fact for the whole coming year, and today , during all the meetings, we just had breakfast with the ministers of defense and foreign affairs of various nato member countries, everyone said we are already starting to work at the washington summit so that the decisions and statements that will be made there in a year in washington are much clearer and meet ukrainian expectations and can these the decisions that will be made at the washington summit should be so clear that ukraine will be invited to

the alliance, because yesterday on our broadcast, the adviser to the president podolyak said that it is almost a hundred percent sure because already on the summit in washington, ukraine will be invited to become a member of the alliance. is it still a longer process from your point of view ? well, no one will give 100% until they are signed, nor will all 32 creams put their signatures, and the semi-final declaration wherever such an invitation appears but in fact nothing there is no unreal at the moment, what we saw in this declaration is that the readiness to give an invitation is there when there will be suitable conditions, this is the most difficult thing that we are already trying to do with the ukrainian experts here lobbies so that the united states and the allies in general understand what exactly this phrase means for us when the appropriate conditions are met, only the end of the war or, on the contrary , the full end of the war there with a peace treaty is not a mandatory condition, but the mandatory language is this adapted national program

that is, that document to ukraine will show that we are really making those reforms , implementing those reforms in order to be completely compatible with nato member countries, that is , in this case, now we want to get this clarity that under the conditions set for this and accordingly, if a year will be enough to fulfill these conditions, then there is nothing unrealistic, ms. hanna . that is why this clarity was not spelled out right away, because diplomats know how to draw up documents in such a way that they do not offend anyone, neither kyiv nor those countries that are cautious about ukraine's entry into the alliance what is the reason for this lack of clarity and the fact that you, as an expert environment, the ukrainian authorities, in particular, minister kuleba, said that he is trying to learn from his colleagues from other countries about what this clarity implies? what should these be? conditions, why did this happen and this happened for two reasons, firstly, because this wording appeared at the last minute , we were looking for options because, including the ukrainian side, the wording was not arranged after

the end and here it is because here we understand that it opens up opportunities for of the russian federation to manipulate these statements as much as possible. and accordingly, they looked for interpretive options until almost two o'clock. it was time when the ally agreed on these formulations in the clinic. the second thing is that there is no unity between the volumes, what exactly is possible to add to it how to write down the end of the war is more important for someone, because they are afraid of provocations from the russian federation. for someone, on the contrary, this is not the key, but the most important thing is the question of how much ukraine is responsible for anti-corruption, we heard this yesterday at several sessions if the question is about some kind of corruption for nato is no less important than for the european union, or for civilian control over the armed forces, that is, these reforms, which are axioms for nato member countries, and one more short question in

conclusion, this is such an emotional position of president zelensky, she is perceived by everyone at bayonets. for example, as a delegation of united states, what is your teleport writing about? are they the countries of eastern europe, for example, who insisted that ukraine should already be accepted into nato, and they treat this with understanding and maybe there they tell the allies not to take it as insults and so on. well, i don't know how they communicate with each other as allies, but we have already seen the statements of at least the lithuanian side as accepting nations, but no less emotional and no less harsh about it wording, we know that most of our partners in eastern europe first of all but not only fought for the fact that these wordings were a clearer and more in line with ukrainian expectations thank you thank you for this inclusion hanna shelest candidate of political sciences director of security programs of the foreign policy council ukrainian prism, our guest, we talked about the behind-the-scenes of what is happening at the summit in lithuania

. there will be no action plan for ukraine's membership, but the reforms will be closely followed by the minister of foreign affairs of the affairs of nato countries, in the results of the first day, it is said that the north atlantic alliance will check the progress of ukraine in achieving compliance with its standards and review additional democratic and security reforms for this purpose . the minister of foreign affairs of the nato countries will evaluate ukraine's steps with the help of an adapted annual national program , namely this document contains the tasks to be carried out in the white house and even determined which reforms are of primary importance, this is public administration, the rule of law and political reforms, this list, according to the communications coordinator of the national security council of the white house, john kirby, contains elements that are difficult or impossible to implement during russia's war against ukraine, that is why ukraine's membership in nato is not possible in the near future oleksandr mereshko, people's deputy of ukraine, chairman of the committee on foreign affairs of politics and inter-parliamentary

cooperation already with us mr. oleksandr i greet you good morning thank you for joining us, let's start with such a general question, here is the previous one an understanding of what the final second day will be like, and there is already a communique of the first day for kyiv, is this a disappointment or is it rather an expected caution on the part of the state nato? well, i would not say that it is a disappointment, because in principle we were ready for such a result , here you know rather the question i left 50/50, but i think that this is a very good motive and an impetus to strengthen our work in the direction of obtaining full membership in nato, and we will prepare because the washington summit is ahead, we have more action there is one question expected about the washington summit. it may be related to what happened behind the scenes, but you

, as a member of parliament, as the head of the actual committee, may know something more . the garden edition yesterday noted that president zelensky, who flew to lithuania, tried to somehow influence the leaders of the alliance to rewrite the final committee, can it really be so, and how could such efforts of the president be perceived by the leaders of the alliance state? well , i can't honestly confirm to ani i don’t want to deny this information because i simply don’t know for sure, but the very fact that the president arrived in vilnius is proof that ukraine really tried, we fought until the last minute because we understood that the fight would continue until the very last minute, we did everything possible and it is impossible to have a positive influence on the content of the comic, and doesn’t it seem to you that by not inviting ukraine to nato now or by not prescribing the corresponding procedure in this communique as to how this will happen, the alliance has given you

such a weakness in front of russia and somewhere in there putin's kremlin sits and rubs its hands because they say that ukraine will not be part of nato and nato will not really come that close to all the borders of russia. well, to be honest, i don't follow the kremlin's reaction very closely, but by chance today, i regretted it. medvedev has some or yours or from a statement. i see that the kremlin is in hysterics, that is, they are beginning to scare with the third world war, and all this indicates that they are scared, they are really scared, they really do not like the result of the free human summit. and if we say about the reforms that are being put forward in nato for ukraine so that they are carried out and only after that it will be possible to talk about the invitation of ukraine uh, have they not yet been carried out in ukraine or maybe they have been carried out at what level or in this direction has not enough been done, so they want to

reformed even more, so what can we say about it? well, i put it a little differently from an international legal point of view . the fact is that the north atlantic treaty has article 10 and there are very clearly and concretely established conditions which there are actually three conditions for the candidate state to meet, firstly, it is the general agreement of nato member states, secondly, it is the ability of the candidate country to develop the principle, the types on which the north atlantic treaty is based, and here ukraine fully meets this criterion , finally, the contribution, the ability to contribute to the security of the north atlantic region, that ukraine now and is doing, that is, from the point of view of the main document of nato, in fact, the statute of the north atlantic treaty, ukraine already meets all the necessary criteria regarding the reforms, we are conducting them, we are conducting them for

for ourselves and not for someone, we carry out reforms in the context of joining the european union, and there are specific criteria, specific recommendations that we are currently implementing, it is possible simply well, how the european union wants to see these reforms does not correspond to how these reforms want to be seen in nato, well if it were so, then there would be specific a-a conditions or e-e specific objective criteria e-e to which ukraine should meet, but even if you compare the situation in ukraine, well, in many aspects, with other states that are members of nato. we will see that ukraine is in a pretty good situation from the point of view of, let's say, the development of the economy, issues of the development of the institution of democracy, and so on. well , actually, before i was preparing for the broadcast of the event, i went to your facebook page and in one of the publications in the interview, you said that ukraine is ready to become a member of nato , but for example, corruption, which

is emphasized so much by the valiants, and there. well, if you read the comments under our broadcast, the fight against corruption is one of the components necessary for nato in this direction, what do you think there, well, ukraine is moving forward enough to meet the requirements of nato, including, well , first of all, it is very telling that in the speech from stoltenberg, anya did not even mention the word corruption or the need to fight corruption in ukraine, that is, here is not put forward. as far as i understand this demand directly, but we are already doing it. well, you see the situation that has developed today, that both in society and in the government in ukraine, there is total rejection of corruption, and we

created an extremely extensive system of combating corruption architecture anti-corruption architecture that is, it is possible such a process is not very easy, but we are working on it, there are huge successes on this front, because it is really a front, mr. oleksandr, well , regarding what was not heard in this context, in particular, the minister when ataka also says that there was no clarity, but it is still there, it follows from previous statements that the fight against corruption is one of the components ukraine is unlikely to join nato in the near future, this is what white's speakers say at home, mentioning the reforms again, the war with russia, this concept in the near future, in your opinion, what kind of chronological framework can it have? that is, until the washington summit is even further. here, how can this concept be interpreted in simple language in the near future, well, in simple language, judging by the statements of several some western politicians mean the victory of ukraine . that is, this question, well, let's put it this way, some try to postpone it to the period

after the end of the war. i consider this a wrong approach, but there is such an approach. i believe that the washington summit is more realistic and more possible for us from the point of view of the time frame. that is, we need to focus on receiving an invitation to join nato at the washington summit. do you believe that the state of ukraine can do everything accordingly in order for the united states of germany to be there who now treat ukraine with caution and restraint. ukraine was a member of nato, but it was still possible to convince them and show that ukraine is ready. i believe that we have already done and are doing enough to become a full member of nato because in fact we protect nato countries, but here the question is rather psychological. the question is to convince our allies, our partners

, uh, nato member states, that ukraine deserves to become a full member of nato as soon as possible. that is, this question is rather psychological thank you thank you for this activation oleksandr mereshko people's deputy of ukraine chairman of the committee on foreign policy and inter-parliamentary cooperation was in touch with us, we talked about how ukraine will fulfill those the demands put forward by nato today, although minister kuleba called these demands not clear in the matter of ukraine moving towards the alliance, and in the occupied berdyansk of the zaporizhzhia region for the last day , explosions have been heard. this is reported in the telegram channel of the city's military administration. there were about ten of them, later it became known that rockets hit the duna hotel, where russian soldiers allegedly lived, the next series of explosions was reported by the city military of the administration began in the afternoon, later it was clarified that the strike went to the area of ​​the yuzhno hydromass plant in the russian

forces, the air defense system worked in the russian forces, as a result of one of the arrivals, according to messages from the chats, the field caught fire , the locals also write about the explosions in the berdyansk district and publish video but the head of the occupying power of the zaporizhia region, volodymyr rogov, says that most of the missiles were shot down in the area of ​​the berdyan trade port, however , one hit on the territory was still recorded of the city enterprise, he also noted that the shelling was carried out by the ukrainian military allegedly with storm shell missiles. i will remind the city of berdyansk, which has been occupied since february 2014. it is located on the coast of the sea of ​​azov. it is a port city between mariupol and melitopol , which are also occupied by the ukrainian general staff. the forces of the armed forces

of ukraine destroyed seven russian ammunition depots in the tauri direction in a day the strategic grouping of troops tavria oleksandr tarnavskyi but in the occupied mariupol, which is 70 km from berdyansk to the east, explosions are also more frequent, but in the very place and on the outskirts, the adviser to the mayor petro andrushchenko reports, in particular, in recent days , explosions have been recorded in the surrounding seaside villages right there according to the report of the local authorities of the tsar - these are the russian troops, they heard explosions, for example , in the villages of yalta yurivka and bilotserkivska kosa , they write local kilogram channels, in particular , because of this, the russian military began to place warehouses with combat kits near schools and residential high-rise buildings on the spot, advises andryushchenko , according to his data, as of now, we know of at least two such storage facilities in different areas of the city. he says that ammunition was brought there for two days and at least 12 trucks arrived. andryushchenko says this is a new

tactic. in this way, the occupying forces are trying to secure their own warehouses as much as possible , hiding behind the local population. petro andryushchenko, adviser to the mayor of mariupol, is already joining our broadcast. i congratulate you, i congratulate you, mr. peter, from the explosions in the surrounding villages near mariupol, what is happening there? why do they sound and , most importantly, how does the occupying power react to it? in fact, there are three reasons for the explosion. it is located approximately exactly three training grounds where mobilized people are trained. the same ones are mobilized .

are reported from the zaporizhzhia region, in particular, from berdyansk and berdyansk district, because the sound is heard and the sound will expand from uh, well, along the sea , it is very good to hear and the third reason - this is , of course, the work of the air defense system, the last explosions in yalta, in particular, were the work of the anti-aircraft system, and this is exactly coincided with the formation of warehouses and the movement of both sets from the word zone , which is located in mariupol, in particular, there with the ilyich combine, they transported and placed the tank in the new cities, this from the city center and the other in the seaside region in the middle of residential buildings, so unfortunately, we have not seen a bavon in our country recently, but we are sure that it is only a matter of time, because we are following zaberestyansky, so the change in this tactic of placing these ammunitions is precisely in the residential infrastructure that you are talking about, what can it do testify to what the russian forces are preparing for or what they are most afraid of, that is, they understand that

they are there in full accessibility and vision to those who do not like them. they are located on friendly territory and uh, about the fact that, in principle, the eyes are enough to indicate where this or that is actually stored and accumulated for the defense of mariupol and for the conduct of defensive operations in other areas of the front. therefore, it is clear that they have come to this understanding and changing tactics as well, well, this shows that recently more and more people are talking about, er , more and more people, we have been talking about this for a long time, that you should not underestimate the russians, what does this mean that they are constantly doing analysis, in particular cotton, yes, they understand where, how, and where exactly it arrives, and exactly where it does not , and they perfectly understand that if they actually place it in sets close to residential

high-rise buildings, then it is almost a hundred percent guarantee that it will definitely not come there. and that is why we came to such a change of tactics and we we are sure that we will see it. at first they tried and actually continue to try to use the fortifications from the last underground fortifications , meaning all the underground infrastructure in which our defenders counted at one time they are trying to use it to store a large amount of ammunition and equipment, because you can really do it there, and it is quite safe, as far as even 3,000 planes are not available, so they hope that with the tom shed, for example, they will not be able to, and since you cannot hide everything in one place anyway, and and the training is not progressing so well there , they are starting for operational warehouses , let’s say, yes. look for other places, if before that they stored them somewhere uh, so that you could not

easily see with the security, then on today no, they are not individually listed. so it is very easy to understand where they form these warehouses and it becomes clear that you, well, that is close by, it is 20 30 m from your own ninth floor , it is clear that this is the same shield that provides the security zone for them in the operational warehouses of the mariupol contractor, we will observe how it will continue, because today we will take exactly two such places, it is fixed, we will continue there to observe what will happen next, we think that it will not be limited to this, because we are watching we see what is going on again, the movement towards the zaporizhzhia region for election kits of new equipment has started, this means that it is not time for them to form a new reserve on the territory of mariupol, that is, in fact, permanent reinforcements are going there in the direction of zaporizhzhia , it is going, that is the question, yes, it is going constantly here

the question is how big it is, yes, it sometimes happens. well, in the last weeks, it was, well, such a stream, let's say there, and today, yesterday evening , we already saw if the sets saw the equipment again, if it was not there before and saw if before that it went to big berdyansk, for the most part, yes, today we see, we can say that it went in the direction of the birth, that is, along the line of nikolsk, the horns, er, the exploration of the birth is in that part of the zaporizhia region . well, of course, ugledar remains active in the economic direction, what genstadt calls like the mariupol direction, however, the live force of these meat-trained troops mostly goes there , because a lot of them are brought in, cooked for a week and thrown over, and then we see them at the avdiiv assaults and so on, that is, they prepare specific meat, otherwise you can't say it because well, for example, in february or march, the training in the territory of the mariupol region at these training grounds lasted from

two to 4 weeks, at least to this day it is a week at the most and they are going further. perhaps considering the fact that, according to your words, they are constantly sending to the zaporizhzhia direction for reinforcements, their part in the city has decreased. no, we are in the city, it is not decreasing and mostly not increasing because the city itself a-and in the city there are military those which are conditionally supposed to be used for the defense of mariupol. therefore, this is a permanent corps, it increased during the fall of last year and it remains almost unchanged in number, and here are all these locations of the military corps that are used for reinforcements for training for equipping. they are located on the territory of the mariupol district to a large extent, they like the coast of the sea of ​​azov, that is, the former mangu district, but today they use the entire

nikol district, that is, what moves on the north of the donetsk region has grown significantly, and there is an increase of about 15-20 thousand over the last month. we can definitely see it, but it has increased and , again, yes, it is holding conditionally. then those who are assigned to rotation directly from the front line , one more short question about the beach season . in this context, everything is crowded there, it is very strange, well, on the one hand, it seems that the coast is indeed full of russians, and civilian russians who came to rest. it is clear that there are many soldiers there on this coast , all boarding houses, recreation centers and there are camps where they are located, but what can they do people use from mariupol to urzufva to the village of babakhterami, i.e. to the border with the berdyansk district zaporizhzhia region is all crowded today

by russians, they go and are very surprised when they work because it's loud. it's very unpleasant. we all know it. every ukrainian knows what it's like. it's audible. how it looks . however, for russians it's a surprise because they were convinced that it's a deep dusty place away from the city. they're surprised by the ruins of mariupol with on the one hand, because it does not correspond to the picture they are shown in muscovy, on the other hand , they come to the coast, these are mostly regions that border ukraine, well, the closest to ukrainians are there rostov region, belohorod region, and so on, they really went to the sea it it is cheap enough for them, and they really had infrastructure ready to receive such a large number of visitors , you say that the beach is crowded, well, you know, if you put your hand on your heart, well, first of all, the area has not been damaged . yes, russian troops have passed through the area and occupied it without

beyiv, in fact, the fighting was already taking place directly outside mariupol . that is, there is no destruction there, it is as it was and will remain there in terms of the quality of the infrastructure and a separate issue and the development of the tourism industry, we will talk about this after victory ago well, the conditions that exist, they remain as they have been for the last 8 years. well, actually, the russians are there, well, believe me, they are cleaning them up with the fact that they are going , why ukrainians do not go under such conditions, and during the last eight years, there are a lot of them boarding houses are now filled with russians, which have been mostly empty for the last 8 years, because the ukrainians somehow demand more recreation conditions. thank you for actually a lot of important and interesting information. petro andryushchenko, adviser to the mayor of mariupol, was in touch with us about the situation in the city and the surrounding villages there are, as we heard, russian civilians also, despite the danger, the russian military still rests on the beaches in the vicinity, your activity in the chat and

i remind you that if you have not yet subscribed to the youtube channel of radio liberty, do so we continue to monitor how things will develop the details themselves are in lithuania, and in particular our colleagues will tell you more at 12:30 during the special, so be sure to watch it. have a good day , the 504th day of heroic resistance of the ukrainian people to the russian occupiers continues veteri news on espresso in the studio angelika works for a season, the second day right here nato starts in vilnius today there will again be a lot of talk about ukraine and its path to membership in the alliance, a number of important