[000:00:00;00] not with the nato bloc as such, chinese rhetoric is more against american than even against the west, because china has a lot of projects and now, even more so, i would even say that this is chinese rhetoric against vilnius, it is very moderate, because china still expects of a certain summit from the european union, even though it is taking some steps there, which are somewhat delayed because there are many unresolved issues, they have a specific african topic, how to further divide africa in these conditions of such neo-occupationalism, while china and the european union has a certain cooperation, that's why the chinese are here too. well, very cunningly, they often conduct the same propaganda as the russians, who say that america is the leader - it's america that does all this , you understand the inconsistencies, and the west and all other countries are simply under pressure from america. that's

why the chinese are doing it here well, such steps i would say still look quite moderate, that is, after all, this summit was rather anti-russian than anti-chinese, it is too serious to exclude china from the many possible cooperation programs that exist between nato countries and china well, simply not ready absolutely now and even the sanctions against china that they talked about are not included anywhere and i would not expect them in the near future because simultaneously trolling russia and china will be too much, especially many elites in the west are already not ready for such a scenario in this very germany and in britain, in particular, those countries that dominate the european continent , well, on the other hand, look, we ourselves, dad , the leaders of japan, australia, south korea , new zealand, it seems, i don't know, maybe

these are the leaders of these pacific countries of the region and there was a meeting of the group itself with the participation of the prime minister of japan, of the rakovets zum precinct , and what is important is that they tried to create a nato liaison office in tokyo, and this initiative was blocked by france, as they say, which does not want relations with china to deteriorate, but here how long will paris be able to keep washington in this effort ? i would say to turn japan into a hub of such western influence in the region. i would even say the security of influence. well, china is constantly exerting pressure on japan through north korea because missile launches permanently, north korea with such a missile program could not exist there normally without chinese influence. the question is whether it is simply france in this case that was put in this way, or in fact the position of several other countries , in particular germany and britain, obviously it is like this and this is exactly the window where u

there are significant contradictions here , it seems to me that the american policy in relation to the european union and china is a country of the european union. well, plus britain , it is like this. that is, you work in the economic, but that this did not establish a political threat specifically to those countries in particular and those different between government and security agreements that exist between japan and south korea, and in principle well, at the moment, for example, in japan, there are chinese relations, although they are in a known state, but it is serious excavation in that region, so far no one is ready, at least the taiwanese issue it hangs somewhere like that well, they use the chinese accordingly, that is, here the balance of power, well, plus or minus, this balance of power keeps the parties from such obvious conflict actions and restricts certain military exercises and the like, so i would

not say that here this year we can to expect some kind of riots there, as the press often made allegations last year that china is attacking taiwan and there was a lot of information about it, or that north korea, south korea will escalate again . that is, it looks at least that way . well, again, you depend on the development of the conflict of russian aggression against ukraine , because it shows many eastern governments the real strength or weakness of the countries of the west and the conditional guarantees that they may or may not provide to someone, mr. mykhailo, see the part that you quoted china's reaction, i translated it completely differently, i had an idea and especially something vitaliy said about uh, if the nato representative office was in tokyo, i had the impression that china was saying such words

, nato is from those and the ocean region, and he has what kind of i had this impression, although i have a hundred percent conviction that such ideas are direct, well, if it is not the north atlantic , it is not the pacific ocean, the atlantic and not the indian ocean, which means unification, i did not even think about it, but i see that china is really a little nervous, am i? am i wrong that because i don't see where he would be so nervous to imagine that japan becomes a member of nato, well, you have to have a very delicate head and there are quite a lot of people there, on the one hand, a means of pressure on china, and on the other hand, japan is in the same position that germany, to a certain extent, was traumatized by the free program, and the war was traumatized by the japanese e-e corresponding there , nazism, fascism, you can talk about it in different ways, but the demilitarization that took place

in japan at one time, now many people in japan are also thinking about the military component that, for example, south korea now has huge security agreements with poland, the same. by the way, not everyone likes the weapons manufacturers in the european union in the same germany. look, poland started cooperating with e-e korea, or the poles and germans did not agree on a joint leopard repair center although this is also an absolutely urgent need, and this is where china wins from these contradictions, but the means of pressure is certain for it, as they say, nato has interests, and there , for what concerns the exchange of information, including technical information, possibly common it is clear that they are already coming, but when all this is done so institutionally, china is nervous, that is why china said that they said, well, look, we are not directly declaring that you are taking ukraine to nato

or not. we are generally against the expansion there and this one , but specifically they did the pacific region, that is, well, this is also an attempt to put pressure on china in order to make its cooperation, in particular with russia, impossible in this situation, that is , i say once again that this is a game of this variable balance of forces in which we see, mr. mykhailo , look at china. i have one more question put and we, anyone in such intellectual centers in the west already understands what sisinpin wants what i mean to him china was very careful if the main thesis was we are getting rich we are becoming a very important factor and only when we become very important fas super important

then no one will be able to give us anything, we will automatically have what we want, and here all the calls come out and say no, no, on the one hand, we are not adults in the economy, we know that there are a lot of economic problems in china, and on the other hand, he has become much more active than he was bequeathed to him by the day of the opinian time in this china well, they are scary to me, it depends on the interpretation, but the problem is that, for example, what many intellectual centers in europe understand well, i'll tell you this in universities, when they talk about russian influence, there's a lot of talk about it now . what did they say, russia invested there, there , there, russia opened a center there, they just bought someone there, someone of their own. struggles and so on, but as far as the chinese influence is concerned, especially that here even countries like france, great britain, and switzerland, there is simply no way to start there, and how many businesses are open

, how many things are being done, how many students, on the other hand , is being formed, well, in the countries of the european union , you know, you know, some kind of level even china is a phobia among many er, well, actually people who think not in the sense that there is any hatred for the chinese , specifically, but an attempt to avoid any contacts or projects there that would be directly related to the communist government of china even the hungarian question is spoken of in some european countries, in some it is absolutely not for any reason, again in favor of china, china is a very large trading partner and it had a very large influence on the government of, for example , germany, of the same scholz, there you can tell the story of the port of hamburg and also very there is a lot of that and this digitization of europe, nobody has seriously dealt with it yet . that is, this issue is still far ahead. especially since the chinese have so many

agents and influence of various kinds of proxies and total what else, well, even here, no one has seriously figured it out yet, and by the way, this is one of those - on the one hand, it allegedly affects the security of the situation, on the other - it is also an argument and a means of pressure on china itself, that here you have been given the green light. well, yes you obey and to some extent, since china has not yet directly sided with russia, for example, at least there were no such statements of massive support for weapons there. although there is some ammunition somewhere that happens through third countries, but for now, china at least somehow er, that is, china could more there do on that's the front and that's why all the calls here too, well, he's just uh, he doesn't care anymore. he's such a strong leader and so on, but there are a lot of those people who are from his environment, they are strongly tied to european business, that's very

much myself. thank you. in china, i'm sorry we still have the program, thank you mykhailo yakubovych, he is a rope walker of historical sciences , a research fellow of the eastern scientific department of the university of freiburg, the wonderful city of freiburg, i've been there a couple of times, very beautiful, very, very , very german and how can you say that now advertising and only then we will talk about ukrainian culture with volodymyr petrovych but watch the advertising first i came back i was sad just not combispasm go combispasm the power that tames your pain can become an obstacle not with my knees from knee pain try dolgit cream dolgit cream anesthetizes reduces swelling and improves

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part of the community with a ukrainian point of view . congratulations, this is freedom. life on radio freedom . the shots may shock you. live events locations. kamikaze drone attacks political analysis objectively and meaningfully there is no political season exclusive interviews reports from the hottest points of the front freedom frankly and impartially to draw conclusions yourself every week the saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world vitaly portnikov host of espresso and invitation of experts on on the basis of facts, give their assessment and forecast of the development of events, want

to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow, watch the saturday political club every saturday not espresso extension of the airport operator to the people's deputy of ukraine historian volodymyr viktorovych we are on the phone, congratulations, mr. volodymyr good health, mr. volodymyr i have a question for you, we were just laughing quite intensely here, it means that now we have a garden monument in mizhhirya - about park art, the supreme court finally decided on the status, and we say so among ourselves, and we can’t just call it the estate of a unique ukrainian president . it is possible to revive garden and park art. i am not talking about the whole of ukraine. why exactly did they decide to do that? there are great

green architects. or the architect said, and yanukovych created such an indescribable beauty there that now it is a monument. of garden and park art, we now learned that the president was bad but the green architect was very good . well, we learned that huge sums of money were spent , including stolen from ukrainians, to create this park, and it is obvious that it belongs to the people and it is obvious that it was finally worth it to someone it is more difficult to legally formalize it in the center of this park. a monument to the founder of this park has never been erected. yes, it is beautiful . let's talk about how the anniversary of the volyn tragedy took place. it is important that they took place. president duda and president zelenskyi celebrated this sad date together in volyn, and on the one hand, you could see many such signs

of reconciliation, on the other hand, the same trend that was observed in the decade preserved, it is possible to say even from three of the three sides, on the one hand, there were expectations of poor ukrainians that this year, in view of the full-scale war, this topic will not be politicized, these expectations were absolutely not fulfilled on the other hand, so really, it can be said that they are more aimed at reconciliation and even his message, more precisely , not his office, that he is in volyn to honor all the victims of the polish-ukrainian conflict, this is quite a powerful and new signal, well, president duda there is no election campaign in front of us, instead everything is amy. we have seen the continuation of all these

trends that he started. at least since 2013, another statement, which was the resolution that was adopted in the diet unanimously, well , actually repeats the already absolutely sacralized figure of 100,000 e-e, the date of july 11, about allegedly 99 inhabitants points that were during this one day attacked by the only er-e regrettable accent that sounded in this statement in relation to you, the regrettable accent was that the polish side expects an admission of guilt , obviously it is a unilateral admission ukrainians, therefore, it is a pity to say that there is a full-scale war and even this cooperation, which is really a really large-scale cooperation between ukraine and poland, somehow formulated a large-scale policy of memory in the conflict, especially in relation to the kingdom of poland, unfortunately this did not happen, but please tell me in principle that you had a discussion with gzematics, a well-known polish historian , on this very occasion you sensed some new

moods in this discussion. well, it was already taking place in ukraine, as i understand that p. matikos came to ukraine to talk about all laws he came to kyiv, by the way, they were in kyiv right here with such a large-scale missile attack, that is, they felt all the peculiarities of being in ukraine and directly in kyiv. that was 10 years ago. well, from a certain moral and psychological point of view, it is obviously possible that there is some kind of greater understanding , sympathy, understanding of the situation in which we are living now. that is, we have absolutely friendly relations with a hoe, i say, but it is not cancels the fact that we have discussions. although i am sure that such discussions should be, and in fact, it is possible to say that it is even going that

i miss this kind of discussion. historians of politics have already done everything that is necessary in this topic and because we wrote zelenskyi, we are talking about all the statements in the parliament of the representatives of the churches, in principle, to expect something more to overcome this trauma of the past from politicians is probably not worth it, but on sorry we we see that from the polish side this topic remains political somehow very attractive and in it feeling some potential pre-election, it is therefore obvious that you are constantly updating it, especially considering the elections that will be held in the fall, mr. volodymyr top, i understood correctly that this formula forgives my apologies for this formula neither ukrainians nor poles want me to choose for you ukrainians are ready for

this formula, moreover, at all levels , church, political, even historical, they say that there are alternatives to this there is no formula because it is correct from a historical point of view because both sides were among those who suffered and among those who committed crimes it is correct from a moral point of view it is correct from a political point of view in order for russia to leave this problem in the past instead of the polish side has already made a statement several times, and now they are formalized in a resolution of the sejm about the actual need for ukraine to unilaterally recognize its guilt in this conflict, mr. volodymyr, that is, you are correct i understood that, using examples, if it is rigorously proven that

the ukrainians destroyed the poles in the village of x in volyn. there is a measure of responsibility, that is, no one has ever denied it for decades of independence, so that everyone has heard about it from your lips, no one has denied it for decades, in many volyn villages there are cemeteries where actually killed poles are buried by the ukrainians, because they have been given reminders, that is, there is nothing here that has not suddenly been done on the ukrainian side, and it is obvious that we have every right to expect some symmetrical steps from the polish side, but unfortunately, from the polish side, there is information that there were no anti-ukrainian actions. were they exclusively actions aimed at protection, or were they some kind of warning actions that did not kill ukrainians from the polish side at all? unfortunately, we witnessed the fact that

even existing grave monuments in particular those that should have been protected by state agreements themselves in accordance with interstate agreements are being destroyed. we are talking about the example of a monument, at first this monument was destroyed and then allegedly restored, but with it the names of all those people buried in this grave disappeared. on the other hand, in polish history, the schedule was also clear, but there were also ideas of revenge actions where it was recognized that the civilian population in ukrainian villages was destroyed precisely in the form of revenge actions. that is, even the polish history of the 1990s, during the time of darnytskyi, was more open to such a dialogue, to difficult issues for the poles, and now the thesis is being implemented that all the actions that were on the polish side were either paid only or paid as a warning even such an absurd oxymoron is introduced between ferrographies, no one sees in this any

misunderstanding, therefore, the discussion about the crimes of the polish underground, which is against the ukrainian population, is a topic well, in fact, it is already becoming and was in the polish information circle. that is, we will simply wait for a certain number of years, maybe decades, until. is this after all such a politically actualized situation ? we would understand that the very right-wing in poland is ruled by the right-wing, definitely always the right-wing forces. i mean, they are always so hyper-patriotic. and if you are hyperpatriotic, then you can't say that you are wrong, you are never guilty of anything, correctly, i understood the peculiarity of the polish situation is that for every right-wing person there is always an even more right-wing one. that is why the current ruling coalition is actually a right-wing one. justice is trying to flirt with such an ultra-right electorate of boyachsky that it will lose support and it will go to another even more right-wing political force

, which is the confederation, which is obviously even more radical, is set on time and advocates openly pro-russian slogans. what can you say about law and justice? well, maybe in us the last or one of the last editions of the day of statehood on july 15, what is meant by uh , it is difficult for me to answer the question of what is meant by the day of statehood, i do not understand at all why this holiday was introduced two years ago by volynskyi, they see that this is a holiday that largely duplicates independence day, and in fact , there is no specific historical basis, but it is being transferred because it seems to have been tied to the baptism day according to russia, ukraine, st. volodymyr, it is moved to july 15 , but because of that, some additional historical

content is not added to this holiday , unfortunately, you know, it is typical for the current government to introduce some very strange, frankly saying empty traditions, remember the day of unity on february 16, there is no time, but somehow they mentioned volodymyr petrovych, people's deputy of ukraine, statehood. keep in mind and good luck with it, gentlemen. good luck to the youth national team of ukraine, pavlo lysenko

, my task is to defend the football goal at this time. our heroes would we are fighting for every piece of our native land for our freedom with you thank you our unbreakable warriors ukraine above all else join the community with a ukrainian view of the world become a sponsor of the youtube channel espresso and this is access to exclusive content personal thanks pinned comments special icons and the possibility of personal communication with the espresso team click to sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian point of view i congratulate you this is freedom life on radio freedom we have already come to

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