[000:00:00;00] current topics hot questions authoritative comments and forecasts in the project informational marathon with vitaly portnikov every sunday at 8:10 p.m. on espresso hello this is freedom in the morning informational project of radio svoboda top guests every day this is the ship district of kherson inclusion live we are somewhere in the vicinity of bakhmut we tell the main things on weekdays about 9:00 a.m. every week saturday political club helps to understand the processes taking place in ukraine and the world vitaly portnikov host espresso and invited experts based on facts give

their assessment and forecast of the development of events want to understand how our today will affect our tomorrow watch the saturday political club that saturdays are not espresso vasyl winter's big broadcast two hours of air time two hours of your time two hours to learn about the war and how the world lives 2 hours to be aware of economic news and new sports two hours in the company of favorite presenters, presenters who have become like-minded to many, as well as distinguished guests of the studio, the events of the day in two hours, the big air of vasyl zimi, a project for smart and caring people, in the evening, most espresso, dear friends , we are back on the air, we continue our marathon

i have a small announcement. i want to tell you that we are continuing the collection and already nine thousand more have been added to our account for our military. while i was reminding here how i theorized that we are conducting this collection , we already have uah 829,000,222 18 kopecks. continue in the same spirit, join the transfers. i remind you that there is a link to the bank under our youtube broadcast. well, also from time to time on our air we show a qr code and a card number to which you can transfer your funds and guys, you can now see it on your screens and i want to tell you that we already are we are moving quite fast and

i have collected more today than in the previous days. this is such a pleasure . about all the scalps there, no, we are moving in the wrong direction, friends, after all, we are. are there any flags with the signatures of our military, they would be really memorable and expensive and valuable , much more expensive than some trophies that are not for us dear friends, now let's talk about etiquette and diplomatic protocol with olena koltun, an expert on diplomatic protocol etiquette, but is this kind of communication acceptable between british defense minister ben voice and president zelensky ? now, the way of communication has become very popular in the ukrainian mfa in the office of the president and it works to a certain extent, which is interesting, but not

always ms. olena, we congratulate you, thank you for agreeing to analyze this story a little thank you. well, first of all, i congratulate the audience of the tv channel. i congratulate the presenters. the topic of the communication of the president's office is really very complicated if we are talking about moments related to the classic norms of diplomatic protocol and etiquette. i just want to add that i will literally kill you for a second. we we wouldn't cling to it during wartime. seriously, if it works, thank god, but what did he say again, the children of gytanas are going to settle down, our very great friend. there is even a photo that is also interesting, where they greet each other in front of biden's nose. maybe you have seen this photo further not the illustration was taken by the new york times, the newspaper of the democrats, well, conditionally, the newspaper of the democrats, and the journal of the republicans, and when they talked about the problem of communication with president zelensky, and i simply saw in

this a certain illustration that this is not a diplomatic, not a protocol gesture , biden is standing and then we blocked the face. i apologize so, with this greeting and such a joke, this guy turned away from all this, that is, there are problems with this, and this is what he says about himself. he says that he was afraid that this would really affect the formation and not the result itself, that's what he says about the fact that the drama was very high after zelenskyi's speech, where he accused everyone there of cowardice and so on, at some point i had reasons that the text could become much worse , things that are extremely important for ukraine will be omitted , he added what do you understand - zelenskyi's emotions but because no less, this was a real problem, but these emotions will play out in the opposite direction, the problem actually exists and was, and it is. well, in this case , it is not new from the point of view of zelensky's behavior, why. because if we

play a little history and the coming to power when after the inauguration, the first steps in the diplomatic arena, respectively . this was one of those moments that our colleagues drew attention to . we can immediately say that there are many things here that are built to build an image, yes, the state could say, and these ideas are again political communication, but the communication is designed for our movement's audience , that is, it is designed for the average audience citizen, in the case of the nato summit, we understand that we are talking about political communication, we are talking about the communication of people who are specialists in the field of international relations , diplomacy, security, and accordingly, the culture of communication there is much more regulated

, and here we have such a situation that the rules of etiquette are despite the fact that in our country there are tendencies to soften it to a certain optimization - let's say so, but still protocols and etiquette remain a basic element of communication in our country and, accordingly, it is understandable that what happened did not play a positive role, to be honest yes, because the situation in itself contributed to the fact that, let's say, the statement of the representative of britain was also to some extent a reflection on such behavior why because, well, delaying the answer regarding participation, let 's say in summit, we understand that we now have such close cooperation, we depend on the aid supplies of our western partners and , in accordance with the latter, to pull and submit our visit to the summit. how are you, respect, well,

in principle, this is a normal, traditional function of any head of state who cares about maintaining constructive relations with his partners and to take some additional step from this to an additional accent, well, to put it mildly , it was emotional, but it was infantile. i would say so . - causes such an understanding that again, despite the fact that it changed during the 19th, it is clear that the 22nd year and the conditions have changed quite significantly because, well, the war has continued, but the scale of this military company has changed, but also formation and certain behavior should evolve, but such manifestations of emotionality indicate that zelenskyi still continues to underestimate diplomacy as a tool of foreign policy, and this is actually very unfortunate because, in my opinion, our diplomatic moments are a little not taken into account implemented as they

could and should be implemented mrs. elena , if we are talking about the fact that the communication was unconstructive and infantile, then what should it have been or what volodymyr zelenskyy should have would say, he could also say that the support is not enough, but probably in some other words, what could those words be , but let's go first. everything could be asked by the emotion that is present, and the moment to say that we are disappointed. that is, this is a completely normal phenomenon and we we are striving yes we hope and accordingly the situation was leveled a little already on the second day yes, that is, when we understand that the statements began, including at press conferences, already after the visit with biden , but this is the first impression, that is, i understand the logic

there was probably a shtibo what a to use as a tactical technique this moment of emotional pressure, but again here god is not up to the treatment of the peculiarities of the perception of western partners because here, after all, there is a moment that this is a multilateral form of a-and it was necessary to express respect and gratitude for that that we are talking about the fact that here are not only leading partners who supply weapons, yes, that is, there was also a group of countries that, to put it mildly, have a very contradictory attitude towards ukraine, and accordingly, it was possible to emphasize that we appreciate that some crisis moments in us overcame, well at least we have to say that hungary well, in what way was it squeezed but nevertheless, at least at this summit it at least did not put sticks in the wheels and we have the ukraine nato council that is, this is already an achievement that is, it could be said that we are disappointed but we are working in the future in order to speed up this process and get the appropriate result on what magic we would like to hope and count on in the near

future. much calmer, without provoking the other side to make such sharp statements, by the way, we found the photo that andrii was talking about, which caused a little surprise among the foreign public, and they did not like this gesture of greeting in front of joe biden's nose, we can show this photo and in fact, you can also comment once again, as a person who knows aha says that it cannot be opened. okay, well, the only thing i can say is that if you have already talked in detail, because we understand what needs to be understood in which situation to take into account, let's say where you are next to who are you? how are you? no, it’s a good thing from all sides. it’s not a convenient form of communication, because ah , after almost putting it on the prime minister , yes, the photo just appeared on the screen. well,

accordingly, the communication of views well, actually world leaders , because we understand that there is a job, there is a prime minister of italy, there is a prime minister of britain . and that's not all. if we talk about classical norms, then in our great society, e are greeted by the year squeezing, then this should be done to everyone who participates in this event. that is, well, this is a malfunction of the protocol service, because there is a service that tells the president in which country how to behave, therefore, taking into account the cultural er, some er, president zelensky likes him not only ukrainians, but to many voters, even these leaders of the states, who may look too much for them, i don't know , chopper, aristocratic, detached from the people, on the other hand, maybe it's the new you, just

leadership on the other hand, if we have a very briefly to answer here, what is the point of the protocol service? well, it should introduce, it should speak, but we understand that the protocol is not with the president at every step, that is, the moment to prompt in time how to react correctly. they happen to all world leaders from time to time, and here the question is more likely personal experience , let's say a person, how many previous situations has he had in his life , how accustomed is he to communicating in such official format and regarding the moment of popularity and that's exactly how she started talking, to a certain extent , for sure, i emphasize it developed yes that is, we are talking about what to allow if we are talking about the communication that is this she you will she to the audience of an average citizen and without in-depth

there, relatively speaking, in those circles who are used to carrying out politics, who are used to bureaucracy , to procedures, who know about it, know about these technologies, and it is clear that here is precisely the conflict that from time to time takes place between professional diplomats and politicians. there is such a thing, yes, that is, professional diplomats sometimes perceive the behavior of politicians rather cautiously and skeptically why because politics is especially public politics is and from time to time it is also very similar to acting yes, in this case, such public characters are popular and the bet goes in many respects, but here we need to work on explaining, maybe because we can understand that volodymyr zelenskyi is, well , from what environment did he get into politics? to emphasize things and remember that after all, if we are talking about the west , we are talking about a rational culture, yes

, that is, arguments, and from strength to facts, eh , calculations, eh, logical arguments, and not emotions, because everyone understands emotions but in this case , emotions are not decisive and this moment is important for the company . interestingly, pain can become an obstacle not with my knees from knee pain. try dolgit cream. dolgit

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to the airwaves, friends, and we will continue now we will talk about the anniversary, which will be tomorrow, the anniversary of the declaration on the state sovereignty of ukraine eh back in the days of the soviet union, ukraine proclaimed it and andriy has such a rare document in his hands, in fact, this is, uh, this decoration is the state sovereignty of ukraine - it is 1990, and there is a signature . well, there are just prominent and outstanding people here . and that in fact, the copy that was brought to the studio today by yaroslav kendzur, a participant in those events , yaroslav, have a good day, health, and i wish you a happy day tomorrow. tomorrow, 33 years is the age of christ, as they say among the people, so i want

to remind and emphasize that the declaration was not perceived for a second. now let's show the moment of the vote itself, then we'll say what it meant then and now roll-call voting only roll-call voting please technical means vote for 355 against four got one well, this is absolutely such a historic moment well, and immediately after that, the deputies went to the street, in particular, they reached the independence square, which was then called the october

revolution square. and actually, for the first time , the idea was heard that from today this square should be considered the independence square, so in the end it happened, and vyacheslav chornovil spoke there with very important words too , let's see. glory to ukraine to our people's deputies, glory has been declared the independence of ukraine

, but from today you are only the first step, don't be fooled by illusions, the declaration is still only declaration so that every phrase of it will grow into living muscles so that a new ukrainian constitution will be created so that new laws will be drawn up on the basis of this declaration, a great and difficult struggle awaits us, you know the composition of our parliament, we ourselves are tormented by illusions about the unity that seems to have been felt today this is how the circumstances coincided, helped a lot, helped with the miner's meal, helped us a lot, and these processes that take place throughout the union helped us a lot. the situation that

developed with our so-called head of the verkhovna rada, who spat at the turning point, you from moskovskiy buried themselves in hiding from their people , an incredible video seems to be thinking about the maidan of independence , no matter who you ask. it was such a breakthrough idea, and it is clear that in those conditions it was quite difficult, all this, all this , it was difficult for the chief communists to turn this operation

around. then he fled to moscow and became gorbachev's deputy. then he probably bit his elbows because he would have been a tailor if he had stayed. well, it's hard to predict who he would have been after if he had stayed, but you really know that's how i feel . talking with my colleagues, i feel the difference in how they perceive the date of july 16 every year . year, including that. today we are having this conversation with you and tomorrow this date will come. i feel how different the perception is from people who and probably if you had not mentioned other tv channels about what happened

33 years ago, you probably did not remember would about uh, this date and this event, because for us, people who experienced it and for whom, realizing, understanding , uh, the importance at that time , at this moment, on this day, hmm, the value and importance of this event , it is clear that the perception is yesterday, we met with mykhailo and i see how mykhailo you raised him from kosov, so with mykhailo kosov and we are holding this document in our hands and we understand that for us, for people who have crossed the threshold of the 12th convocation of the ukrainian soviet socialist republic, for us, for that group that hmm well,

a conscious group that later united in the deputy group of the people's council and many people who, before coming to the session hall of the verkhovna rada of the ukrainian ssr, had, so to speak, visited other councils , that is, mordovian yakut colonies, etc. independence because next year already for us it was already a document that defines ukraine as an independent state and the text that is included in the declaration here are 10 e-e 10 points of the declaration that practically define the functions

of an independent ukrainian state, here is the tenth for example, the tenth, tenth section of the constitution, external and internal security . the ukrainian soviet socialist republic has the right to its own armed forces. of the soviet union, because it is still the soviet union, it is not yet independent ukraine , the referendum has not yet taken place, the cpsu

won, you would all be a distant chippyshka there was more than a year of time, uh, because i have to say that when we entered the verkhovna rada, and it began work on may 15, uh , 90, and the composition of the verkhovna rada was well, what even the greatest optimists and fantasticists could not lead to understanding that we can adopt some document that we have not yet imagined, what kind of document it should be , what it should be called, and so on, two months later, on may 15, we started work, and on july 16, we adopted this document and weigh it against the political composition of the e-e

deputies in the session hall. these are 100 members of the people's council. well, maybe there were a little more at first, and all the rest, and of the 4,050 deputies , this is the bolshevik elite - this is the entire politburo of the central committee of the communist party of ukraine, headed by ivanishk, headed by uh, with uh, kravchuk ideological secretary and so on and all the regional elites , so to speak, the first, second, and third secretaries of oblast committees, city councils, district committees, general directors of large enterprises, that is, to count on the fact that this red part, this absolutely overwhelming majority, can support such a document, well at first glance, i was completely naive, but all the events because we cannot analyze the events in ukraine today and consider them , so to speak, detached from what was happening in