[000:00:00;00] this will be life, but it will not be the same as it was before february 24. do you think the west will quickly understand, first of all, and maybe our partners around the world will be what this new witness will be? what is happening in ukraine is slowing down the partners a bit, because either you have to press harder, give more weapons, and then something may not be right. that is, you do not understand what will emerge from this , something even worse may emerge, or maybe there will be more of a threat, maybe not just as we planned and here is the misunderstanding of what will be this nouveau - novus horde sequorum he is slowing down somewhere and they are waiting they think well let's see ana now there will be another counterattack ana then we will see what we threw up ana wait wait or maybe russia will fall earlier or maybe putin will die and this slows down because there is no determination to say the new world will be like this and we have to do everything to make it like this and there will be no questions but suddenly it will not be like that and suddenly something will go wrong don't you think that

this is a misunderstanding until the end of the new model in the world, at least in parts of this world, it is somewhere and forces our partners to keep looking at the map of hostilities and expect what will cook again in this hellish kazan of the ukrainian ukrainian war. i think that the world will be multi-vector, that is already clear . i think that the west is afraid of a world without russia in that sense that a world without russia will strengthen the position of china and i think that the role of regional allies will grow in this world and in this context ukraine as a state that in the xxi century is the first that actually

defended its independence with arms in hand in conditions where its loss, the loss of independence could have huge consequences . it should claim to be a leader, one of the leaders of the modern world, it should be clearly understood that we have, but our leadership it will not be instantaneous even after our victory in the war with russia , it will not become a one-moment do not think that everyone will come and bring to the bank the keys to the presidential palaces or to the offices of the prime ministers of european countries no, we need to change within the country, we need to to build relations with our neighbors, because i am sure that only through strong relations with our neighbors we can build an effective state, we need to act so that we do not feel sad for ourselves and look for effective opportunities in order to quickly rebuild and build

a strong state, because at the moment, for example, the question the dismantling of russia has somehow gone off the agenda, and this means that even the victory of ukraine will lead to the restoration of its territorial integrity. only a certain step, but not a complete one. in my opinion there will also be a problem, that is, we will not have time to rest on our laurels after victory, we have to live and fight on, we have no other way out, and we have to convey to our partners that the preservation of russia in its current form will become a deferred threat that may not necessarily shoot across the territory of ukraine, which can shoot at another state that russia decides to challenge, and it will once again become a serious problem for the world. thank you, mr. yevgeny. thank you for taking the time to give your professional comments. yevhen

makda, executive director of the institute of world the politician and the writer were not in touch with us, we are proud of him, we respect him, we wish him a good day and we will include in the conversation the next guest with whom we will continue the discussion of this important topic - this is oleksiy gran, the scientific director of the democratic initiatives of psiv foundation. i congratulate you and the professor of kyiv-mohyla academy professor of political science at the mohyla academy mr. oleksiy i congratulate you, even if it is more precisely comparative political science , that is, everything in the world is compared, everything in the world is compared. uh, to which you know, somewhere with success, somewhere with success, people who want to know more continue to search for answers, and having certain fragments at their disposal, they want to make a complete picture, but this complete picture is not always made up, there are always some elements or some knowledge that people lack, do you think that the war in ukraine, which is ongoing today, is

the cauldron in which this new world order is being brewed, shouldn't we think so globally and let's just say that it is a local war in which the fate of the state of ukraine is being decided. independence of sovereignty and its territorial boundaries, what will they be and everything and no new world order will be formed here because of this war. what is your opinion , vasyl? well, you know the answer. that is, this is more of a rhetorical question on your part, and in this case, yes, definitely. tests in general to the whole world and how this world will be, what this world will look like. excuse me. here i have a little like this, this is me from home. and how this world will look like, why is it not a local war? we understand very well, because this is a violation,

actually, everyone - all the rules of the world world order, and if it succeeded in russia, we can already see that it will not succeed. but it meant the victory of the law of the jungle , so that is why the power of those countries that strive to protect freedom, democracy, but also territorial integrity is definitely being tested now. we see that the old institutions are not work, why did i switch from freedom and democracy to territorial integrity, because well, in fact, we know that in the world, by far, all countries are democratic , and even these countries, which, let's say, are part of those countries that are currently voting in the organization of the united nations for the territorial integrity

of ukraine, they are not democratic. yes, here we are almost all arab countries , the majority, the vast majority of arab countries support it, with the exception of syria, eritrea and algeria. yes , but it is difficult to call them successful democracies. and that is, for them, let's say it's a slogan that we talk about in europe in the west, and that it's a struggle between dictatorship and democracy or democracy against dictatorship. it doesn't work for them. but it works for them, the slogan of territorial integrity. it works for them. the slogans are pragmatic, that is, food and security, energy security, freedom of navigation, and environmental security, the admissibility of the rattling of nuclear weapons . this is how it works for them, that's why the world really is now

. i listened a little to what my colleague said . how can i agree with him? the soviet union is francis foucault, whom we all love because he defends such a pro-ukrainian position, but he then made an incorrect prediction. he said that the world will be the end of history - this is a victory in fact, following such a liberal democracy, politically, the world became polar, but we understood that in reality everything would be much more complicated, and we saw that the world, and new centers of power are growing in the world, and it is not only china, but regional centers in different parts of the world and the threat that the world will turn into a multipolar one has become very probable , and from multipolar to a non-pipelar one, but no longer

like it was during the cold war, that is, then there was bipolarity of the usa, the ussr, and now the usa and china. such a world is beginning to take shape, or is it we don't know what will happen, and we see that china's allies are precisely countries like russia , because countries with weak democracies are dictatorial regimes, and that's why president biden started saying that new ones are being made in the world . well, it is not a complete practice, because the world is politics. it is always more complicated than any schemes, and we can see dictatorial regimes that are nevertheless or authoritarian regimes that still understand the need

to put er russian aggression against ukraine did not end with the annexation of ukrainian territories, i already mentioned these countries, so let's take these countries of the lot, the countries of the persian gulf, saudi arabia , they maintain good relations with russia, but at the same time they talk about the territorial integrity of ukraine, so the world is really getting complicated. i continue to believe that in reality of course, democracy has more prospects, democracy has more potential than dictatorship, and world history shows this . world history shows that dictatorships

can be effective in such a way. to speak in a stayar race yes, but when we talk about more accurately in a sprinter's yes, but when we talk about long distances , democracies are more effective, yes, and that's why i still believe that the free world will have it, it will have an advantage but it will not be an easy world and we have to understand, we have to understand this and when we talk about ukraine , i think that mr. mach, where he is so very , very good at the end, switched to ukraine, our prospects in the new world, we have to understand that, again, not all countries will be to unanimously support ukraine simply because we are a democracy or because the russians violate the rules of human rights here the situation is more complicated because these countries of the global rooster have a very strong

anti-westernism because of colonialism because of this legacy of colonialism in the countries of latin america - this is a very powerful anti-americanism and it everything affects these countries if a multipolar world is not a minus but a plus. they try to play on the contradictions between those big big countries, but at the same time we have to understand that even these countries are anti-westernism is very present in the heads of the leaders of which, when we come to pragmatic things , that is, trade, investment, ah, the west has a huge advantage here , you know, only over russia. yes, let's say that russia's trade with africa is very small , in fact, and before china, that is, before chinese aid was perceived as

hurrah, now a lot of african countries have seen that this is actually a cabal and therefore they will be more cautious about accepting this help from china, and even more so from russia, you know if the countries of ukraine and africa, let's say by the way, on the putin came to st. petersburg where the russia africa summit was held with more than 40 invited or even more than 50 invited leaders of african states, as many as 17 came , and most of them are those who came to power as a result of a coup, and well, that is, they are mentally similar to putin somewhere and they understand him, he understands them. but many ukrainians can look for support in ukraine already after the end of the war, because we perfectly understand that china, for example, invests money in those countries, gives diamonds there, for example, gives gold . to trade all this and so on and china is interested in saying that money goes to where there are resources and it also invests in

belarusians, especially all economic schemes, this is understandable, but ukraine is a country that in the future can be a leader in that too that ukraine has huge resources. we are now talking about metals and energy and land about grain about water about rare earth metals. by the way, what are there in ukraine , what are the metals that are the future or they are used to make modern weapons and chips for cars? earth metals here in the summer - these are the large reserves of which china and ukraine have, so we must understand that the war is also a resource, it is also important who wins, he can have a large profile and large influences, that is why the war in ukraine is so, and sovereignty, they are independence, but we understand that resources are still important for world players, who will dispose of these resources, and a large amount of these resources is located in the south, where counter-offensive counter-offensive actions are currently taking place

. to be as a leader in the development of military cooperation can turn into, or remain what it was, a country that was a supplier of raw materials . processes, manufactures some pundis and sells conventionally speaking for 30 for 300 dollars, yes. the same is why ukraine cannot sell grain. and pundis, yes, have added value. profits, that's why it's important. well, plus, ukraine is engines for rockets, it's launching satellites there, it's all tanks, it's planes, well, ukraine is everything, listen, it's a super powerful state , logically, which can shoot like that in this war, in your opinion, is there an understanding first for all i am not talking about the people, about the ukrainian government and the people

, the intellectual, the intellectual elite, the understanding of that. and how do we, where do we and how do we take our place, yes, victory , yes. it is changing very well, but where will we be, as you think, there is such an understanding of why it is not fully formed, how to help form it, who should work on it , you have asked many important and fundamental questions. well, first of all, i would like to respond if we are talking about those who came to the summit russia, africa and 17 presidents, 10 prime ministers, and this is of course a striking drop compared to the previous one. these are the 45 leaders. because the other representatives are from other countries. these are vice prime ministers or the minister of foreign affairs. that is, it really says about the fact that africa is now more, let's say, wary of well, not wary, but wary of contacts with russia. but among those who came, i am not only happy

with russia and the heavy weight of the president came again, yes, that is, africa cannot , south africa cannot ignore it due to their approach to multipolar education, they came, but we also have to say thank you that, under the pressure of many factors, we pushed it to the point that, again, with the help of various factors, there were russian missiles and which were falling on kyiv when he was here, and the pressure of the west is here, and the democratic position of the judicial system in africa itself, but still he took the position that it is not just that putin is not coming, but it was said that putin will be arrested. that is, this is our great victory, yes, but look when we talk about what will happen after the war, well, i guess the main task now is to win and

win without any concessions to the aggressor . ukrainians are against these concessions. this was also shown by a survey of various companies. we just conducted a survey commissioned by the resistance ukrainians oppose concessions, moreover, we ask such a provocative question. and if there is no help , are ukrainians ready to continue fighting, and the ukrainians say they are ready to continue and it is better to freeze , but not to make concessions to russia, not to record them in documents. to peace, it will still be difficult and bloody, but it is very right that we are asking the question and what will happen next in the world, ah , you know, i am a little, well, maybe i am careful with

the word leadership of ukraine. i think that we are already have gained a moral circle and it is certain that we will be such a moral leader. this is true. how will we manage to transform this moral leadership in the fact that we repelled the nuclear state of the aggressor into leadership in specific areas, including economically, that is another question here in we have many shames, yes. that is, digital technologies and our economic ties with african countries, which are currently broken but which will obviously be restored, and our experience in agriculture and so on, that is, all this, well, not only about african countries, you are right they also mentioned space cooperation and engines and so on. by the way, what unites us with many of these countries of the global cock is that we are the so-called middle countries of the middle syst . yes, that is, we are small countries, but we are

so average countries by area by population and so on and this is what unites us with many of these countries, and we can offer them cooperation with such countries as kenya, nigeria and latin american countries and many other countries as well a-a but here i once again know we have if we if we we want to build a full-fledged cooperation with these countries. we should not limit ourselves only to the fact that now there is a war and everything, you are absolutely right, we need to look at the perspective , we need to look at aa, perspective plans for cooperation - this is correct, and at the same time be realistic, that is, realism - it consists in the fact that when the reconstruction of ukraine begins, it will be a very difficult process, we

understand how much has been destroyed, how many people have left, how social and demographic conditions have changed. there will be big problems here, but on the other hand, you know, a crisis is always an opportunity to change something that is, we will not rebuild something left behind, outdated , what we have left from the union, and we can look for new new spheres and navigation areas where we can go to move forward. evgeny magde said, and i think that most of us certainly want it to happen, but in reality we don't know if it will happen or not, and if it happens , then when what can happen, what can become a trigger

, that is, it is absolutely obvious that we have take into account this option, that we should work with those forces that are in, say, in the autonomous regions of russia and that are in opposition to the current regime, that we should explain this to our western partners, too . i think that they are already aware that such a scenario can to happen, but here is really a question of whether to push it and er. here , i think the answer is rather unlikely , yes , that is, it is necessary to prepare for such a scenario.

predict how this process will go. well, let's remember how it was with the soviet union, that is, centrifugal forces began to work, the republics began to declare independence first , and the declarations of the state somewhere. but gorbachev had the possibility of reforming the soviet union, he wanted to sign this alliance agreement . and then what we are saying happened this surprise, the black swan, that is, the mutiny against gorbachev, who actually instigated this painting along the border lines between the union republics, we must understand that it may be more difficult for the russian federation, because when we talk about national minorities, there are many, and in many national autonomies , they

are minorities. the republics of the north caucasus, for example, or whatever it is, but in many others, well, this process of russification has entered very strongly. and from the point of view of the russians , the process of russification of leading nations or national minorities is also not so easy here this is to be compared with the collapse of the soviet union, so once again i will repeat that as analysts, as scientists, we have to consider different options , this is one of the options, but let's say one single bet on it . well, i guess we can't. it also carries with it many, many, many dangers, so we have to prepare for several scenarios . you asked if our leaders, our elites, are ready to transform ukraine into a modern european

state. well, you know. i think that this war led to great changes. that is, this change is also in the support of nato and, well, the european union, there used to be a lot of support, but now we have received candidacy for membership in the eu, we have to fulfill our task and, of course, now a lot will depend on how we do this task let's let's let's fulfill and we, you and the expert journalists , of course, have a lot of questions for some of the people who have been exposed in corruption scandals but who for some reason remain in the system and at the top and in the system of the ruling party and so on. examples when there is a quick reaction, but there are examples when there is no such reaction

, and here we have to continue the pressure of civil society, the media community, that in any case the struggle continues and we just have to move on, there are no defined horizons, we create these horizons, we define them ourselves thank you thank you for your comments. i wish you a good day . oleksiy haran is the scientific director of the democratic initiative foundation and a professor of comparative political science at the mohyla academy. finally, you know what i will tell you, in fact, the new world , this is the saying of the new sport of the sekvoru, it was voiced in the days of the roman empire by the poet publinus virgil maron, eh, now the times are beginning again, and the great order appears, he wrote, well, and then it was won and it was on the american currency of novus orthosa - chlorine appears sooner or later, eras change, you know, now eras are changing. well, let's say you watch the news in congress, there were open hearings, and

former american intelligence officer david gash - said that the pentagon has samples of human biological substances selected in the places where ufos fell, there are many, then the teachings of stanford university today develop cancer cures, when the cancer will eat itself, they do such things that will attract cancer cells, which instead of feeding on these substances and not to live and to die, in one word , scientists are now turning food for cancer cells into poison for cancer cells. the world is changing. global warming. it will be subequatorial, where it will be continental, where it will be, and all this, everything is changing. we live in a time when not only ukraine, the whole world is boiling in kazan , from which something new will appear

, there will be many discoveries on them. we stand on the threshold we are in these we are going into these big changes so you know the only truth is definitely not to listen to liars of all kinds, we need to work, move forward and understand that nothing is stable in this world today, neither in ukraine nor in the whole world in general, nothing is stable in fact, everything is happening right now and we are in the process of this creation, but we are paying for it today with blood, someone will pay the money, someone will pay with something else. because we don't really know what this new world and our new order will be, and there is no answer to that, but we must move forward and definitely be ready to be plastic with our psyche , first of all, plastic in order to accept the new , whatever it may be, because we are in many things we don't know, but they will appear before us. i thank you for being with us . well, you know, it's scary here, and it's great that we really live in the period when the new world is being created. not every generation has such a chance

. it's either a curse or a blessing. i i don't know that everyone can decide for themselves, but we are in this. thank you for being with us . it was a program, a worldview, my name is vasyl zima. reduces swelling and improves the mobility of the joints, you can also walk dolgit the only yellow cream for pain in the joints and with muscle spasms, dolgit antisum tablets for muscle relaxation yes calf it was me before bleeding gums inflammation of the gums and the solution was so simple

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