[000:00:00;00] well, you fell , don't otrekotirovat see what's left. unfortunately , for modern russians, i am absolutely secondary . the short period and then and well, there was denisino’s data and this is what it is, uh, such a lining, lining, firmware, which, to a strange degree, i regret almost all of my ex, and it’s not just to see myself, it’s the most interesting thing that people, as it were, for decades, well like you, too, for decades in the west, many people also live on 10

hryvnias in the west, it turned out to me that they should be integrated into what we call the values ​​of the civilized world, they will show their passion for everyone, ah, ah, this does not happen , almost completely, and i i already spoke and wrote about this one. it seems to me that there were boring numbers of such herds, the development of a demeaningly pure external achievement of civilization, it is not important that the noisy internet would be there now, they would already include cards , er, something comfort, an opportunity, er, there is something part of them is what and what kind of well-being of the external, this is the external, everything turned out according to which there are in europe and from which there are long stories for searching for errors and which one remained in such a current and how it is a pack of comfort packaging well according to

which there is no real filling of value, and actually speaking, and this vacuum has become visible now, and it is especially noticeable in those who have been living in the backwater for a long time. er and er, none foam cards of corporate responsibility and there citizenship everything that a-a everything that we call practical values ​​in general, but many of your ex-fathers show er-er presents you with just a stubborn reason exactly here is this statement facts now you understand for myself and in prokovchim there is a lot eh i thought that the most fierceness of the action

it shows that it is some kind of full one there is no reflection as i said points decolonization of consciousness was not carried out. and therefore, on the one hand, at least a part definitely feels that it is easy to put a-a that a-a split into two after the second country of the training, namely the lack of self-responsibility and you will forget it because of the real a vyzyvat big scout, but the majority of people call it that. call. well, how does the person talking about your color look when he is talking about it, even though i

have said many times that ah, i myself, they are always not always born with the knowledge that this is knowledge requires internal works of a self-critical view that you can see such an iconoclastic view of your own culture , so you perceive your own culture. i don't know any

a ---------------------------------------------------- for what is society, and here is culture and thoughts, i will stand up for this very protective er, autumn, reflections and not realizing responsibility. how many ukraine you can have noticed that now there are such serious discussions, you bring us the figures of fate of the mother family in kiev and they want to call it ukraine mother, they removed the ukrainian coat of arms from her, they put three teeth now, many people are talking, why at all, where to sovetize soviet sculpture and in general why is it needed why do you want to enter it into the ukrainian contest at all when it is such a soviet thing it was started by yevgeny v utechit completed the truth ukrainian soviet sculptor vasyl borodaev here you look at it as if it is a new ukrainian sim but it is put soviet symbol and i will tell you. yes , by the way, i was present at the opening of this sculpture. it was perfectly soviet. there was

a little boy. well, i came . sculpture, that is, it never occurred to anyone that this has a great relation to ukraine. and in this sense, i would say that i am interested in the relation of the excursionist to this. what to do with the architectural symbols that appeared in the era of totalitarianism. but then how did you become a rethinking, look, there are different things, different ones, you know, there are strips, such a musicalization, when the symbol there did not become colonial, the old ones, we did not accept it, we will see that the very consciousness of society is placed in a museum, or like museum objects, and it looks fit

as historical orgasm facts testifying or fleas, there is a second approach that allows a rethinking, eh, these are alive there, it doesn’t matter how much the fascist took out there, it doesn’t matter, the soviet eh, the soviet period , there in ukraine, or where else, to which some kind of visual cabinetry is given, or he places the text with some friends or around it, well, this is some kind of artistic reinterpretation in which this memory sounds in a different way, he speaks in general , he drinks with praise, and he was called to watch during tolkism, he testifies about this uh, as if by chemistry, so that the pressure there is becoming - this is anal consciousness and uh, of course, there are very different things uh, in general

, to dream of putting this monument in some kind of museum, and this is the end of uh, the choice is already concrete in society here it is. it seems to me that this is the only public thing that can be taken to the museum. kateryna, this is the largest sculpture in europe. where can i take it? it is possible . no. there is another way. -then the memorial museum around the wrapping eh, it doesn't matter where the prisoners were kept or something, around it we stand a real complex that sounds eh in a different way, this is this eh, this is a gigantic symbol of tolkomaristism

again, this thursday is another option a- and they will simply change the child of the second one. but this is a volga maximum. i read that someone used it . eh, what is important is precisely the rethinking of such a thing. well, here is the channel one symbology and uh when it becomes a symbol of resistance too, internal internal vacancies with society and competition society with

its own memory well, it is interesting that in italy it has already happened with the left of the great fascist architectural works. it's also interesting, such a finance is like that, eh, even in the city where i live, and there is eh, this is the building of the ikhtimum on the armed alliance, after all, perhaps, for example, on which there is mussolinskaya, they are knocked out, or there um, some more, some more symbols, well, the italians are working hard here, eh, such a position, eraner, there was no defification of the defification in such a verse, ah, how did it go from germany, with fat people, they speak completely , literally

i didn't give er. i brought my daughter to termoya, well, she's 15 years old. she went through the whole school and told me that she passed the constitution - the alliance, and they told me to write to write, but you didn't say anything. i'm a terrible musolinin , whom you tell me is very good in the salty which nobody institution that есть бесплатно лет let me be, er, on the last meal, er, moments under the carpet, how are all the processes possible, whether it was not casinized, we do not judge, and let the heating and culture be cleaned. here and there in the middle of rome, it is famous that the printing machine is worth it and for some and those of the older generation, unfortunately, and uh, and here is nostalgia for

them, eh, i must, of course, it carries such a pathological scale as in russia. she how can you get nostalgia that doesn't exist russians, in principle, in the 90s did not think about the soviet union, yes, they were thinking about the russian empire, birch trees, the emperor , that's it, that's the kind of nostalgia that's why, eh, why wasn't there eh, that's right you tell me artificially to be like that, somewhere, a check, so often, always, a mental construct, because, or very often, there is a project of this ideal idea, it’s not for the future, she ’s in the past, because russia lives with the resort head of the trailer, i just have it

dynamic pobedy in absolutely there . how do we know the fake-stripped situation of the second right and which is still called a wild homeland? it started for some reason in 41 of 39 and the ukrainian resistance began. it is impossible to offer a program in the future . this is absolutely hybrid nicknames that are used very well

, practically , there is a large number of victories, er, heavenly latvians, izby, and all this has changed to reality and everyday reality. he says he is getting up from the square that he never went down to, uh, he was never produced, i was convicted of a real crime in the past well, it's time to get up , having gone down there never thanks ekaterina thank you kateryna margolits, artist, writer, civil activist, was on our air, and of course we will talk about this topic of reinterpretation, how appropriate it

is in general, for a long time. like-minded people, this is just a story that is not divided by political parties, some kind of border may be within the framework of one of the zem political circles, a completely different attitude to what the situation looks like is connected with the fact if you want an architectural work or a sculpture or something else, there were countries in which this whole history of the struggle of democracy , totalitarianism, republics and monarchs are far gray, there is simply no generation that was behind in this and it happens there without such passions, let’s say in great britain stands the monarch here stands cromwell cromwell, who destroyed the monarchy and killed monarchs, well, at least one monarch was simply promised his head during the time of cromwell he

is standing near the british parliament, the monarchy did not give up, uh, not to have him er, for some things he was an enemy to her, but the monument remained, it is quite a good show in the united states, just now they began to remove the monuments to the leaders of the south who stood in the south of ten or us precisely because public opinion began to change regarding their contribution to history and this it is also quite an important point that when public opinion changes , the attitude towards history changes, and history itself changes , and passions are still raging in spain about the monuments of the times of francoism, about how

they can find a common language among themselves republicans and monarchists. and as soon as a government changes, quite serious questions immediately begin, that is, frank was reburied with this architectural heritage , although he hoped that his burial in the architectural complex under madrid would be a symbol of the steadfastness of his regime. there is no regime. there are no burials. they still do not dig up the leaders of the past and it may seem that this is only such a historical legacy, well, you should not

demolish the monuments named after lenin on the red plane now it turns out that lenin is not there by chance or was not transferred to the cemetery precisely because lenin was perceived as a person who restored the russian empire under a new flag, and this is also quite a revealing moment. on the other hand, there is an important moment about this reinterpretation of the monument that appeared in of the soviet union, let's talk about it with a researcher of the national museum of ukraine , the museum of history in the second world war, romana kabachi, i congratulate mr. roman, i congratulate you, but lately you can say that you have been quite actively

commenting on this whole situation by replacing the coat of arms with let's say a trident and you can see that their passions are great, that the supporters of the motherland standing over kyiv with an updated symbol are many, but there are also many who believe that we are simply ukrainizing a purely soviet symbol that will never become ukrainian. how to overcome this gap of perception, this is not even an aesthetic manifestation laska is a political chasm to some extent i don't think that it is a chasm er-e dishes it is a monument that er-e is here that must be accepted which is generally er-e perceived as normal by many people i read a lot of er-e opinions which er- is they write about the fact that

it is a priori a normal monument, and for me personally it is also one of the symbols of kyiv and ukraine. i don't think that it should be rethought. but for those who need to be rethought, let them think about it. - because it is a beautiful monument that stands and watches and protects us, that stands against moscow, that stands dressed in greek clothes and a tone that simply does not

only protect, it is simply like that . i don't know about monuments, that admires everyone. by large this is not the first such monument to be rethought. bohdan khmelnytskyi is also a rethought monument. yes, in principle , this monument was a monument of the only and undivided russia. it was erected not at all for the sake of ukraine, but for the sake of emphasizing that under the leadership of bohdan khmelnytskyi, ukrainian lands became a part of russia forever, and there was thanks for that, well, from the other side, and it will be even in the ukrainian ssr and in modern ukraine , this monument is perceived as a monument

of ukrainian statehood, although in fact it is a monument of ukrainian anti-statehood, but a rethinking may have taken place with this, it will also be constantly uh, there are discussions about this and with the motherland motherland monument, which ukraine will have mothers after august 24, uh, this year, this will happen uh, all the memes that appeared after february 20, the fourth, uh they show that people love this monument , that people perceive this monument as a protector monument, and i can't help but think that the motherland, which will be

called ukraine, will not have a mother. work for our symbol of protection thank you thank you mrs. roman kabachi historians research staff of the national museum of ukraine, the history of ukraine in the second world war, they are now talking about the fact that this could be a museum of the national liberation struggle of ukraine, which will cover the entire 20th century, and i have already told kateryna mcgholsy, i will tell you that i really remember that i was his witness the opening of this museum because by and large it is an act that when it was opened it was such a triumph of soviet ukraine the highest point in order to show this architectural triumph of soviet ukraine the then first secretary of the central committee of the communist party of ukraine alone

of the biggest and most terrible russifiers of ukraine, volodymyr shcherbytsky literally changed the image of kyiv, the kyiv that i still remember. this is kyiv without a museum, without the motherland, without the ukrainian house, which we also accept as ukrainian virgins, but in fact it is the ukrainian branch of the central museum of vladimir lenin in moscow and yes, it was built . this is the lenin museum, and by and large it will even remain that way, but time changes. i would say , er, the very belonging of the buildings. by the way, it is quite an interesting point that the previous lenin museum, which existed in kyiv before the construction of a new building by shcherbytsy, which in turn led to the destruction of the volodymyr hill; there was a teacher in the modern building, and this was also not accidental, because it was in this building that the central rada proclaimed the independence

of the ukrainian people's republic and the bolsheviks , who felt like complete winners over ukraine, who believed that they had already put an end to the ukrainian issue, and they were wrong, in this very building of the central rada , in the very building where the independence of the ukrainian people's republic was declared, they placed a museum of their idol volodymyr lenin, who, by the way, had never even been to kyiv , fortunately, and this was such a sign of the real victory, the triumph of the occupiers , aggressors and collaborators over the ukrainian idea , but something was muffled all the time because they understood that people who come to the kyiv museum of lenin, they can know remember that they come to the building of the central rada, that every time there

is such a contrast between ukrainian independence and ukrainian occupation, and that is why they needed a new house, a new house and a new state urban myth because if we talk about putin's campaign, we must understand that the origins of this air are in the politics of leonid brezhnev, born in ukraine, who already in the 70s began to realize that lenin's ideology is the very ideology of communism . it is beginning to exhaust itself, or is it not unites soviet society, and then what unites it unites the victory of the war, because it is a common victory for all who lived in the soviet union and a common tragedy, and the people who fought on the fronts could be people of different political views, some of them could

to become nomenklaturists, just like brezhnev himself, who came from the nomenklatura to the fronts in a blast furnace, went from the front, and someone could become a writer, a dissident, an author of books about the soldier’s truth, and by the way, this also came from kyiv, because the writer who was the first to write such a book through the eyes of a soldier and not a general during the war, he was from kyiv . moscow writers were not very fond of working in this genre. and then it was discovered that this common myth also required such a majestic building, because the previous museum of the great patriotic war, the so-called he was in pechersk, there is now the building of the supreme court of ukraine, the so-called klovsky palace, in this building there was an old museum of the great patriotic war, but all these were museums, so to speak, of a provincial town, and the lenin museum and the museum of the great patriotic war did not create the impression of such majesty, which was to be traced in the soviet

architecture in moscow architecture, let's say so, and that's when the decision of volodymyr in shcherbytskyi was made to build such two huge museums, the war museum and the lenin museum, where is he not museums of the history of kyiv, say no, we still don't have a normal building for such a museum is not a museum of the history of ukraine. of course, neither the russians nor the collaborators who served the russians and who did not perceive ukraine as their homeland were interested in the history of ukraine. let me remind you that the majority of the population of the ukrainian ssr perceived the soviet union as their homeland. earning money mostly looked like this, and that is why it was normal for this sovietized part of society, and life played such an

evil joke with both of these buildings shcherbytskyi museum lenina became the ukrainian home, volodymyr is bitter not to return the museum of the great patriotic war can become a museum of those who fought against the soviet government, who believed that the destruction of the soviet government and the supporters of the occupiers , collaborators of all this filth is the right way forward and over all this the motherland will be the mother who will be the mother of ukraine no longer with the coat of arms of the soviet union, which will never recover even if the world perishes in the maelstrom of the third world war - these are more real prospects for humanity than the appearance on the political map of the world of the soviet union here what a hocus-pocus, even at such a price, this monster cannot be revived on the trident, it will remain as a sign that now there is an independent ukraine, and believe me, it will be, despite all the trials and all the problems that we will have to go through in the coming years. thank

you, friends, i am leaving this broadcast and i wish you all a good evening and, of course , victories. good luck. i congratulate you on the espresso channel . for ukraine and our allies, the war with russia is becoming a war of attrition. yes, we are sure that our partners will provide us military-technical assistance financial assistance as long as it is needed however, this actually does not remove from the agenda such measures, projects, ideas, which are aimed at accelerating the appearance in the armed forces of models and equipment of a new purpose, which can provide superiority over the enemy and will be an asymmetric response to the attempts of the aggressor act on the water in the air and in the air as you in particular happened on the night of the fourth of august when