[000:00:00;00] oleksandr musienko, head of the center for military and legal studies thank you for participating in the program. this was a verdict program conducted by serhii rudenko. i say goodbye to you until the next program . goodbye regularly. change of tactics, we'll talk about it in today's edition of bbc ukraine , olga palamaryuk is working in the studio, bombing, sieges , shelling of civilian infrastructure, the russian army is already using in ukraine experts say that the tried-and-tested scorched-earth tactics are parallel to the military

operations in syria. last night, the russians fired twice at the center of pokrovsk in donetsk region. what does pokrovsk have in common with the syrian theater of war? the city of pokrovsk is located only 40 km from the front line. the previous evening, the russians fired at it with iskander ballistic missiles, as the leader said. pavlo kyrilenko of the donetsk regional administration was targeted in the city center, and on these shots , the liquidation of the consequences of strikes on a residential building killed seven people, including rescuers, military personnel, 88 injured, these are civilian children, police officers and employees of the state emergency service of the armed forces of ukraine say that the russians deliberately hit this place twice because they knew that many people would come there to help, and this is how

bbc correspondents told the world audience about the events in pokrovsky, this city in this part of donetsk region, which is under the control of ukraine , but it is close to the front line. we were there in may and talked about the fact that thousands of people are returning to live at home despite the warning of the authorities to stay away because of the very great danger and these photos and videos of the consequences of two rocket strikes in the city center, how damaged these buildings were, reminded us how we stayed at the druzhba hotel , ate at the italian restaurant corleone , and in the middle are two main centers that were used by the civilian military and other journalists people like us. this is a kind of unique center in this part of the country, where there have been so many hostilities over the past 9 years. maybe that's why, as we were told, wounded almost 30 police officers and seven people died, and rescue operations are complicated by the danger of shelling punic times, this is the reality of such places as pokrovsk, because such

cities are very close to the front line of russian troops, they are actually in the radio zone of artillery fire and short-range missiles such as soviet which cause great destruction due to shrapnel damage to the holz. and what about the attack on pokrovsk ? it is already traditionally said in the kremlin that they hit the command post of the ukrainian armed forces the forces of ukraine - this is called a lie, and many experts compare the attacks themselves with the tactics used in syria by the russians. they also supported some of the forces of bashar al-assad, the russian military hit civilian objects and infrastructure , deliberately destroyed hospitals, and humanitarian convoys about the parallels between the war in syria and ukraine. my colleagues asked murad shishani , a correspondent of the bbc arab service, whether you see that russian tactics in syria are very similar to those they use in ukraine. so, if

you look at aleppo, where did it all begin? in september 2015, there are three manifestations or three defining features, they start with encirclement , then carpet bombing or shelling, and then they open the so-called humanitarian corridors, we saw it in valepa and the suburbs of damascus, but we see the same thing in kherson , kharkiv, there were attempts in bakhmut and before then in mariupol, everything is clear. when it comes to the second feature, when it comes to bombing , it must be targeted and here i want to return to history again, as it was in the case of chechnya, the first war after 1996, russia launched a campaign of targeted killings by launching rockets against the leaders of the resistance movement, and then dzhokhar dudayev was killed in this way. the russians used this technique later , when aslan maskhanov became a target already in the early 2000s, mil masayev came out. so , the russians believe in such a strategy, killing the leaders will destroy the groups themselves, sometimes this

it worked, but later in the case of syria and before in ukraine, the tactics are slightly different. they now target, say, certain cities or settlements, they target rescuers or those people who are trying to help, for example, the white helmets in syria, mostly claim that about 300 of their members died during the shelling by russia and the forces of assad, what is this tactic for? they want to sow fear among people that they will not be helped, and this makes it easier for them to advance, as i said, three levels or three the characteristics of the environment, the shelling, the corridor, and then it is easier to conquer, and we have seen this , for example, valepo. the siege and bombardment of certain areas of the city allowed the siege regime to recover resources and attack other areas. that's what wagner and kadyrov's allies are doing chechen militants so if they target a certain area it allows them to recover their resources and attack again as far as

war crimes apart from international law i can't tell you if they are classed as war crimes but it's kind of a box pandora, many people here will remember her what the americans did to afghanistan and iraq , the russians themselves have a history in chechnya about this matter and to this day war is a dirty business and it has never been clean attacks on civilians residents of course it's a crime to target rescuers of course it's a crime to target people who tried to help forcing people to come out to besiege people of course it's a crime i saw fear i talked to people of valepo i was on the border of turkey when the russian shelling started the ground was shaking imagine the people who were in the building or close to it, the russian army has its own strategy, which is historically known, remember that the best translation of the name of this strategy was the steps of an elephant, so first comes the siege and then

carpet bombing that's how they conquer territory that's how it happened historically in the case of the ambush assad relied on help from russia so he didn't just learn from them they weren't there to train his army they were there to help him that's why they opened and got them in the bases latati or tartusi, giving him opportunities in different places, the topic together with a military expert is to start with pokrovsk, how to assess what happened from the point of view of military science . what did the russians achieve with this repeated strike? it is clearly a war crime that the occupiers violated the principles of the initiation of hostilities in accordance with international humanitarian law, the intentional directing of attacks on civilians and civilian objects, i emphasize, i.e.

objects that are not military is a war crime, this wording is official according to the actual statutory documents of the united nations nation's re-strike is a terrorist attack tactic with the first strike aimed at the maximum number of civilian casualties, then after a while when the rescue services arrive law enforcement agencies and, accordingly, communal services, a second blow is struck. that is, we can talk about the fact that here not only the experience of syria, but also the corresponding russians initiated or continued the practice of terrorist acts according to the classics of kati al-qaeda, strikes on civilians are prohibited by all conventions, the rules of the introduction of war, you must be heard the correspondent of the bbc arab service who saw with his own eyes the actions of the forces of assad and

russian aircraft, this is what the kremlin is doing then in syria and now in ukraine, what is the purpose of such strikes against the civilian population, which has to destabilize the situation in the territories controlled by the bolt, to sow chaos, to cause distrust in the actions of the central government, in addition, the actions of the russians in syria at the moment on the territory controlled by the armed forces of ukraine are aimed at provoking a wave of emigration, let's remind you how many european countries actually left syria, and these processes were initiated by the russian special services precisely with the aim of destabilizing the situation not only in syria, but also in european countries , the russians are trying to use a similar situation with mass terror

to cause a wave of migration already directly from ukraine, currently several million have left ukraine for european countries, according to native estimates, up to 6 million of the civilian population, and there is another question: how to protect civilians, how to defend against such iskanders, we understand that the means of air defense in every city are ukrainian it is impossible to build a city. is the free population supposed to clearly understand the algorithm of their actions? first of all, this is the principle of two skins when there is no time to run to the shelter . accordingly, you must use 200 walls that can stand in the way of injury in the case of a fatality, the use of the so-called israeli experience has been practiced by those actions, and here the question is not even how many civilians, as the relevant ministry of emergency situations must inform the population about the nature of possible attacks, accordingly

, the public notification system must know places where you can wait for an air alert and, accordingly, receive qualified assistance so it will never be superfluous to remind the security rules. well, experts now agree on the fact that the crimes committed by russia with impunity in syria a before that in chechnya in georgia led to brutal actions in ukraine, this is how the world should react. now, if possible, addresses are not sectoral against specific actors . a military expert was on our air not about another side of the war invisible but important electronic warfare or rap correspondent of the bbc and to

the source of dora-sulu understood how this mysterious field affects the war in ukraine their battles invisible, but the danger that threatens them is real. this is the ukrainian unit of radio-electronic intelligence, they monitor the radiation of signals that use drones of the air defense system of salvo fire systems and other weapons. we cannot show their faces for security reasons . the leader of the group with the call sign alen says that russian forces are constantly hunting such units like his their mission is part of a covert confrontation called electronic warfare how it works almost every modern weapon uses radio waves microwaves infrared and other signals to send or receive data and electronic warfare uses this vulnerability to disrupt

enemy communications gather intelligence and identify targets for the first time since world war ii we are witnessing a conflict in which both sides rely heavily on electronic warfare systems a key feature of this war became drones, but this is what happens when they are blocked by electronic warfare systems , not only drones can be affected, but the majority sophisticated weapons that ukraine received from nato countries are used for gps-link navigation, so when russia jams this signal, even high-precision weapons, in particular , himars rocket artillery, can fail, that's why russia and ukraine keep the capabilities of their radio electronic warfare tools a secret, you are a representative of the as in this the war has new and very effective capabilities drones radars communications and all these systems can be affected by rap if we destroy the russian

jamming means we improve the capabilities of our troops in terms of detection and their ability to deliver accurate strikes, this is how special forces noticed the russian field 21 system, which jams gps signals. ukrainian artillery disabled it, however, russia is also hunting ukrainian electronic warfare equipment . alena's group came under fire. he believes that russian troops could have detected the antenna and now they are looking for the location of the scouts. alain tells everyone to fire single shots in order to hold out until morning, he decides to change the location, since the position is compromised, the main thing in the electronic fight to be invisible to the enemy, that's all for today, look for more stories on our website bbc.ua on our pages in social networks

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god forbid really tactical nuclear weapons will definitely change the world. stories, problems , analysis and personalities await us. john gerbs is the former ambassador to the united states in ukraine . thank you for the invitation . if you have questions, you will receive answers. fridays at 9:15 p.m. for espresso hello, this is freedom, the morning, the informational project of radio freedom, top guests, every day, this is the shipping district of kherson, inclusion live, we are in bakhmut, we tell the main thing on weekdays at 9:00

, the war in ukraine is the main topic for ukrainians , victories and losses, analysis and forecasts politics and geopolitics , serhiy rudenko and the guests of his program will talk about all this, people who have information and shape public opinion, people who defend ukraine and create the future, the main and interesting thing in the program is the verdict of serhiy rudenko from monday on fridays at 8:00 p.m. repeat at 12:10 a.m. my dad was my sniper for the tankers, he stood so well that no organization was able to sneak up on our positions, he even received an order, and mine

knocked out two enemy tanks and destroyed an entire warehouse of ammunition my dad served in air defense and shot down missiles over kiev, finally i can tell about it ah cool my congratulations this is freedom lime my name is vlasta lazar and today, in the issue of the first full-scale invasion of russia into ukraine , the dbr is already investigating 112 proceedings against officials of territorial centers staffing and social support are popularly known as military commanders. the reform has already begun. is this just a demonstration of reform and a demonstration of the fight against corruption

in the military commanders? let’s talk soon. wait a minute, and these days it has been 15 years since the beginning of the russo-georgian war, as a result of which georgia lost control over phasia and south ossetia, and russia recognized the so-called the independence of these regions what is common between the russo-georgian and russo-ukrainian wars svoboda life in pokrovsk, donetsk region, emergency and rescue operations have been completed , the state emergency service of ukraine reports, according to preliminary data , 82 people were injured and wounded, seven people died among the dead, deputy colonel

andriy omelchenko, the head of the main department for responding to emergency situations of the main department of the state emergency service of ukraine in the donetsk region, was 52 years old as before reported the head of the military administration of the donetsk region , pavlo kyrylenko, the center of pokrovsk was hit twice by iskander missiles at 7:15 p.m. and at 7:50 p.m. two days before . it was burning badly , the rescuers were screaming very loudly , they must have died because it was generally excruciating, people were asking you to complete it from this floor, i'm already like that from the first to the fifth floor

the stove burst, it was pouring down, the guys were shouting sasha, sasha and such a tractor and that's all, that is, they came to save people and a friend flew in, what about your housing now, it's cool, old, old floor, there's nothing, an apartment to sell for housing , i hope that we're here, that i'll live here , a dog and three the cat was saved and sat in the closet. and i wanted to go outside, and the rescuer came and said, go into the house and don't get out . he told me, i don't know what, guys, and he's so small, save my shoes. i'm very grateful to you. where was he healthy? his family said that there are people here died, did you know who died here in the neighboring entrance of the slavs, ira, there were very good people, they were on the street, why do your houses become a target, what do you think, did they see something here, maybe someone led some idiots , do you understand people in general, when people go crazy in general, i don't know, i can't

i can't explain these, i can't explain the tank, it's impossible to use oxide except for matyukov, i can't say anything else, look. well, the russian ministry of defense is commenting on whether the attack on pokrovsk claims that russia allegedly hit the forward command post of the khortyts troop group and nothing about the killing of civilians, the russian military regularly bombards ukrainian cities that are within the range of their artillery drone missiles , despite evidence and testimony from the first days of a full-scale invasion, russia denies the responsibility of its military in war crimes against ukrainian civilians and military well, serhiy dobryak joins our broadcast the head of the pokrovsk city military administration i congratulate you good evening, although for you it is of course not very good i

preliminary data 82 people injured seven people died is this the final data unfortunately we already have 88 people injured and seven people killed yes it is correct we just saw this video that our correspondents took today in pokrovsk and we heard how a woman looks at her destroyed house and says that the apartment is suitable for housing, but judging by the video , it is difficult to call this housing suitable. we were shelled and a month ago there was an s300 shelling, and in february , unfortunately, we also had a five-story high-rise building, the ezer floor, destroyed , unfortunately there were injured and dead, but

as soon synais will hand over the building to us, and after the measures are not evacuation, but emergency measures , then we will conduct an examination, maybe, maybe she will come , if it is suitable, we will definitely repair it. if not, then we will preserve it, and people will wait for compensation from the state, but we have a local program in place, we pay out 100,000 hryvnias from the local budget to the families of those who died, we also pay 80,000 hryvnias for destroyed housing , so that people can wait for the state compensation and a large amount of compensation and be able to settle their lives there well, local residents, as well as representatives and ova, told earlier that there were two attacks with a break of 40 minutes

. first, on civilian houses and objects, and then, when the rescuers and policemen arrived at the scene, another attack. yes, unfortunately the russians are not, unfortunately, the russians generally adhere to their terrorist ideas, if there is a certain period, the first shelling and when the rescuers and national police come to cover a certain area at the address saves our lives of our residents, then as usual in 340 minutes a second missile arrives and arrives either or s300 or a tornado, as in this case, that's why i'm a piscander, and so on, so in this case, the second, the second shelling, which was

more destructive and more joking. i will give you a rocket and this is the center of the city, this is white day, this is an ordinary building , of course there are no military facilities at all, there are no military facilities there. this is just some kind of terror. i actually wanted to ask. there were no military facilities nearby. they claim that they allegedly struck a control point there. well, who do i understand? they are justifying their actions there, but even a month ago, 300 drones flew into the private sector in the center to destroy 160 buildings. well, not a single one

in general, military and so on. are such actions planned, for example, before autumn or before winter? our city of pokrovsk is, in principle , a more densely populated city in donetsk region. by order of the head of the military regional military administration, we have a ransom collected from which we are evacuating from donetsk region. to zhytomyr once every four weeks fraternity for four excuse me for four days ago evacuation of people continues it has not stopped it will not stop but you understand if you take well for example yesterday's shelling or shelling every day, the cis flies first of all, it is shelling to clear donetsk under the flight time of flight t-40-40 seconds and this is a ballistic trajectory, so there is a shot after 40 seconds , we have victims and we have destruction, there is no

way beer will work except ot petriv in your city and your community because of these losses , serhii dobryak, the head of the pokrovsk city administration, was on radio svoboda, we talked about the consequences of the shelling of pokrovsk , first of all, the full-scale invasion of russia into ukraine, the dbr is already investigating 112 proceedings regarding officials of the territorial recruitment and social support centers are popularly known as military mothers, 15 indictments have already gone to court, today it was reported in the dbr for the first time loudly and throughout the country about the possible illegal enrichment of military commissars and the excess of their powers , after the well-known story of odesa military commissar yevgeny borisov's family , whose family became rich during the war with movable and immovable property in ukraine and spain , the investigation also suspects borisov of giving instructions to subordinates for a reward

to demobilize certain persons, the law enforcement officers took on the odesa military commissar not immediately . and only three months after the information about his possible violations appeared, boris is now in pre-trial detention center, and the dbr almost daily reports on new discoveries by the military commissars across the country , forcing soldiers to build his own house was smearing men from serving in the military and so on, all this is blamed on the ukrainian army, the abuses of which were abducted by the law enforcement officers, now investigating more than 112 criminal proceedings against the military 15 cases are already under consideration by the court, how the ukrainian military is abused during the war, and what are they in danger of, that in april of this year, volodymyr zelenskyi said that it is worth sending the military to the front and assigning soldiers to their places after being wounded, at the same time , oleksiy reznikov, the minister of defense, said that the territorial centers the staffing of the military commissariat needs a systemic reform, there are many people who have been sitting there for ages on the plants