[000:00:00;00] the meeting in kopankan and noted the participation of china. what was the significance of saudi arabia for us? is it important to see against the background of what events it took place? what steps should ukraine and its partners take next? this is the rubric, the emphasis is to name oleksiy fadeev. today, we will look for answers to all these questions. about the toldjids themselves well, let's talk about it with ruslan osypenek, a diplomat, an international expert. good evening, mr. ruslan . greetings. greetings. so, for sure. forgive me, but at the beginning i want to extinguish my own, and i think many of our people are confused about what can diplomacy or is diplomacy capable of ending wars that are already ongoing? well, as a rule, wars end with diplomacy, but the question is different: can diplomacy lead to the end of a war, and it is effective only when it is supported by force, so

the diploma was created that behind diplomats are also political and armed forces and political forces and if you as a country are a subject if your armed forces are able to overcome, for example, and liberate your land, then the entire position of the force can negotiate with any of its partners or enemies let's say it like this the essence of diplomats it must be reinforced by force in short if we talk about the gg here last weekend, was the ukrainian position reinforced by force yes it was reinforced by force because uh we formed a great alliance behind our backs the euro-atlantic actually revived nato which was declining uh we saw that the euro-atlantic ties were established and strengthened, which were trump's violation, remember that europe and

america did not sign many agreements there, which planned to sign fair trade , sanctions against each other were introduced until the moment war, when the war began, the front of democratic countries began to form, and the formation of these very democratic countries led by the united states of america was completed. this already indicates that we have a civilized society behind us, and this is precisely the strength that gives leverage to our diplomacy, the statements of our partners that that they will help not only until the end of the war, but also after the war, this is another lever of pressure , and because the russian scenario does not work , sit there, wait, wait for trump or something, uh, some kind of miracle, you know the change geopolitical situation that will give the opportunity to somehow end the war on our own terms, that's why we had a strong position, the next moment of a strong position, we saw that at the beginning we had two formulas for peace, one

formula for peace was formed by ukraine and this alliance that i mentioned, the other formula miru was formed by china and china collected followers from countries that have close ties with him, bilaterally support him and follow the format of his policy, and we saw as a result we saw african countries that came to us with the offer of miru but very similar to the chinese peace, brazil from latin america was also proposed by the pope, they also had their own alliance, but the fact that china was forced to come to jeddah indicates that diplomacy won after all. ukraine and its partners won in the west, there is nothing to talk about separately and in detail, i hope, but uh, returning to the question of the position of power, tell me what are the coincidences against this background in your opinion and whether it is even necessary to take into account the events against the background, well, if against the background

of which the events themselves and i specifically about the attack on this ship, aliniotsk, alinigorsk and gornyak, and the next night, on the night of august 5th, the attack on the already damaged tanker, and when the experts already talked about the fact that ukraine might be able to interrupt this oil pipeline, such an improvised russian a- yes, i would like to add to these facts, if you look at the events a little more broadly , we started with two peace formulas that began to compete with each other, so china tried to compete with the west for its peace formula . we saw what happened in this short period of time that the gsaven meeting took place is very important in japan , at which decisions were made that the event will reduce

the influence of china on the countries of the global south , a fund was created there, it is not just words , or a declaration, a fund was created there 600 billion e-e aid to these countries of the global rooster in order to reduce the influence of china on them and so that they still adhere to the formula of peace of western e-ukraine and the west. the second point is the very change in relations between the united states and their partners and china on june 29, we saw a change in the bilateral relations between the eu and china. the main points that were made after the adoption of the new concept of the european union for cooperation with china were derisking and diversification of relations, that is, they will no longer rely unilaterally on trade on the chinese market and on trade with china plus de-risking - this means a reduction of this sharp ac- risk, and this means that they

will shift emphasis on the development of bilateral relations with countries that are located on the perimeter of china in order to to balance these er-er chinese intentions of dominance is the third point which is also important from the economic war the united states increased the pressure and moved to a technological war with china by banning the supply of not only chips but even equipment that can be manufactured the fifth point or the fourth point is that the united states managed to pacify japan and south korea, few people paid attention to this, but they are historical opponents, for example, like saudi arabia and iran, and the united states managed to calm them down, there was a visit representatives of japan to south korea, and we saw a more active inclusion of japanese representatives in support of ukraine and our south korean partners, who began to be more actively involved, that is, the whole

geopolitical configuration of libra began to lean towards the fact that the west will beat china in this race and the struggle for the global south. and look what happened, they invited all the supporters of china to come to jidi, because he had already dominated the countries from the asian-pacific region of ukraine, from latin america, and if if china had not come, then he would have actually found himself in isolation. how did russia end up in china? he was put in such conditions that it was difficult for him to choose between the bad and the extremely bad, and that is why the chinese representative was forced to come to present his initiative, apparently this 12 step there according to the peace formula , but he understood that the alliance of civilized countries was formed, which will increase

the pressure on russia, does this mean for china that he is late for this world train, he can no longer lead the process, so for china it means that he will be forced to change in the near and medium-term perspective, he will be forced to change his concept er. he went there within the framework of the confrontational concept , making statements er that he would take taiwan up to the military path, plus before that he appointed a minister of defense who was under sanctions, well, this is such a diplomatic gesture at the peak of the united states of america , he took many such steps, ah, deploying a confrontational scenario, now coming to the summit is not for himself and to meet high-level experts in g will agree that china refused for a while the confrontational scenario and will look for common points of contact in this western alliance, at the same time he will

keep away from russia as it weakens and continue to lose in this war, ugh, this is china's position to be on the side of the enemy. so, is it more a broad position , if it is dictated by the interests of china itself, it has been more than a year, a position dictated by the interests of china. china simply did not narrow down the political and diplomatic maneuver for itself, on the contrary, it expanded it with this maneuver look at what he achieved, he achieved the possibility of dialogue with the west, they exclude not cut off this dialogue, on the other hand, he puts pressure on russia if russia will demonstrate such things as it demonstrated there, for example, by signing e after the visit, sizin raised moscow that they will coordinate actions on many issues , including nuclear weapons and then a week later moves nuclear weapons to belarus, this suggests that they are not capable of negotiating with them, and therefore

china needs it from a position of strength talk now china has started to do this look at the volume of bilateral trade between china and russia russia was able to survive only due to the money it earned from mine it could sell its oil products to china and india and there is a decrease in bilateral trade, this indicates that the countries are dissatisfied because russia is losing, knowing that it has lost strategically, that it is dragging and creating crises for all countries in terms of food and energy, and that is why they will push russia, but you mentioned india absolutely correctly, because another a giant, such an asian one, which a-a well, it also depends on its own and world food prices, doesn’t it? it’s undeniable that everyone depends on world food prices , because the greater the competition, the more suppliers on international platforms a-a, the lower the prices, the lower the prices means stronger and more stable political power in any country, including in india, and india needs

to feed a huge population, therefore russia's exit from the grain agreement hit politicians they have oil, despite the imposed sanctions, they did not look at this, they helped russia, that is, with such a step, in fact, russia struck a blow at its allies. does this mean that what we talked about about food, that ukraine received a very powerful lever countries of the world in asia, yes, ukraine firstly proved that there is a strong, democratic alliance, which is behind ukraine, and this is very important, and this alliance is not just tactical, so now we help, then we do not help, we have a coincidence strategic interests of return

russia to normality. let's say the restoration of the world security system, which gave peace to all mankind, we could all countries could develop, could earn , and russia, er, undermined this order, but ukraine is restoring this order, and therefore the united states will support it even after that after the war , we will talk with russia from a strong position, and the negotiations will not even be with putin, because putin, i believe that the person is already very capable and well-developed they are speaking signals from the united states of america. putin first received a warrant from the international criminal court, and the transfer of additional data from the united states of america to the court about war crimes committed by russian troops, this indicates that the united states, attacking even its own interests , is giving him a signal to

i didn't go to the elections, what can russia still be saved, and putin, under the guise of russia, is dragging out time in this war and wants to be re-elected and continue to burn the population of russia's resources and lead to the collapse of the united states, although the united states, i think i know that there were discussions and they were so serious because the united states also participated in the wars of afghanistan and cancer and any war is complicated, and therefore, passing on this data is such a direct signal to the kremlin that putin should not interfere and a direct signal to the elite to do what- shoot something with your leader and end the war, shoot him if we now return to the topic of the meeting, you said it correctly, it was not yourself, this is a meeting at the level of security advisers, political directors, why did they name it themselves, then it is probably some kind of media piece a ihor zhovkva, the deputy head of the president's office, the day before, etc., on august 4, he said that one of the tasks of the sami will be the same, he also said that, and there will be

a division of responsibility between countries regarding co-organization or co-leadership in this or that point, meaning the points of the peace plan and if he says, if china is talking about nuclear safety, then china, for example, can be with the semi-leader in the point about nuclear safety , if brazil is concerned about environmental issues, those issues can easily be with half the leader, co-organizers, and so on, in your opinion, was it possible to achieve this redistribution or distribution of responsibilities, and i must say that this is very smart, such diplomacy was carried out, it was the involvement of the countries of the global south in the dialogue, because the main goal was not to work out a ready-made formula at this meeting. and the main goal , in my opinion, was to involve as many countries of the global south as possible in the dialogue in order to demonstrate to russia and china that on the side of the western alliance there are many

countries not only of western civilized countries, but also countries of the global south and demonstrate the issues on which they depend, and according to the results of this meeting, we managed to first find common points of contact, it was already heard in all the news, it is sovereignty and territorial integrity, it concerns all the un, so it is written in the un charter , this and that is unchanged. that is, it is a common common denominator that found the second moment, uh , agreed to continue the dialogue, and this is important in diplomacy, because if you just got together, looked at each other and diverged in different corners with their positions, the dialogue is not all over, the topic is over. and if you have agreed, you can dialogue, it means that you managed to involve the countries of the global rooster in further dialogue, they are interested, which means that somewhere there are common points of contact of interests, and such directions are nuclear safety and food safety, of course, and therefore there will be groups, some countries will lead these groups, and this means that the dialogue will be continued at the session of the un and the un general assembly, which will be held in

september, china, 20, but the dialogue will continue. and if we talk about the venue, saudi arabia arabia, was it a surprise for you personally? yes, it was really strange there. well, yes, why. because well, there were many processes before this. see the process of problems, personal problems of the new prince with the leadership of the united states of america and the attachment of the relationship between the prince and putin. we mean the first point of straw, yes, and the second point is that china guaranteed saudi arabia security when when was when xi jinping came to saudi arabia, firstly, he reconciled er historical adversaries, he wounded of the saudi district. we remember that this is what he says about this situation

this year , and china talked about how they had an honest-dynamographic victory. not sure. although i understood that saudi arabia is a leader, it is also a spiritual leader, a political leader of the entire arab world, meaning the sunnis, and on many other issues , the interpretation of the koran is there. go there to learn precisely these spiritual instructions, that's why it is of great importance for all arabs, and without a doubt, saudi arabia needed to strengthen its international image that the rest of the world counts on it, and despite everything, it is a representative of global cock, as we say, and hold it yourself. if you want to involve us in the dialogue, then

let's hold it on our territory, and at the same time they strengthen their image. do you understand why it happened exactly like that, and besides, saudi arabia and we remember it with recent history, this is a country that also had a hand in the fall, that is, the collapse of the soviet union, because we remember that in 1986, immediately after the united states with uh, they lowered the price, so, well, you started throwing cars on the market, the saudis did the same thing, and a fairly large number of historians interpret this as the reason for uh, the economic times of the soviet union, the drop in the price of oil, yes, and the collapse was the result, is this symbolic? is this it's just, well, it's not, it's simple a coincidence is a coincidence. i think. well, in my opinion, this is a coincidence. why, because now a different geopolitical structure has developed, if saudi arabia started earlier on investments and technologies precisely in

the american oil and gas industry, and together they actually influenced prices, it was important for america to regulate these world prices because that inflation and social and political stability in the country depended on the price of gasoline, gasoline in the united states has always been cheap thanks to this kind of cooperation, we give technology and money to us oil to the world markets in sufficient quantity and this makes it possible for us to get gasoline cheaply now the relationship has deteriorated , as we said between the current leadership of saudi arabia and the girl leadership of the united states of america, that is why this game is a game, who do you know well, they will not play with walls for oil er, a different configuration plus , well, they saw saudi arabia, er, which worsened well, which worsened relations with the united states of america, it demonstrated that

it has a political maneuver and there are new leaders that china why because the task of china was the internationalization of the yuan, the strengthening of the unconditional displacement of the dollar from, first of all , oil deals, and for this, china , look at what he did, he wrote, signed agreements with the largest suppliers of oil and gas, with russia, with iran, with iran for 25 years in saudi arabia and trade goes through the yuan , that is, the amount of er yuan increased and the volume of the dollar decreased china solves its strategic issues saudi arabia found an ally who er covered it with an umbrella of security and said we guarantee your safety while we have signed a contract with you and we are taking oil and gas from you by land , we need you to be safe with these energy carriers , so the structure is different and, as i said , saudi arabia is unlikely to play downgrade. how do they say that russia

fell uh, and on the other hand, china, which was, well, as if driven into this situation, but even in it plays its own game correctly, yes, china has been playing its game for a long time since the 13th year, as we said in its strategy a-a community spea e the so-called common destiny for humanity since 2013 of the year, the one belt one road initiative is the economic direction of this strategy, what it implements, and the key idea is the dominance of china in globalization 2:0, that china should become an economic powerhouse and implement its own things through the fact that it is the number one economic power. so china pursued a policy of dominating five regions in this concept , it is assumed that it should dominate five regions, and when you dominate there and in africa , and in latin america and southeast asia, the asian pacific region is the majority of the world's population all buy and trade in yuan, uh, that's another

policy in the financial sphere, the internationalization of the renminbi, which we said, you define, so to speak , all things in parallel, you create the swift system, and in parallel with the american one, in parallel , you create cloud technologies, that is, in fact, you create a mirror the usa has a parallel system, a parallel system that was created after the second world war by the united states of america, but it did not succeed in china, and the united states took a course from the 18th year, well, seeing that what the strategy is being implemented by china, they adopted a containment strategy, and in order to contain china , we said that the economic war had been unfolding since the 18th year. it turned into a technological war there in the 20s. the idea of ​​the united states of america's dominance is two or three steps ahead to go eh in the relationship with china because china, if you look at the technological areas dominated by china, the americans were a little confused because communication biotechnology there space eh new technologies

artificial intelligence artificial intelligence in the cloud china's technology has taken a more serious position, so it lags behind in terms of chips, but in other areas it has already overtaken the united states, and this certainly cannot help but worry the usa and the western alliance, so such a confrontation is natural. the regimes are ideologically different, but they compete with each other in a bipolar world. well, that's why this confrontation will continue regardless of where in our scheme or where we are in his scheme. how can china be useful to us in the scheme in which it took place? well, what we call ourselves there is what i call right here in life, the most important thing is that china joined the dialogue, if it is involved in the dialogue, we can convey its position. china can convey its position . remember how difficult it was to get the negotiations of our president or to organize

the victory of not the president and sisinya but - and they did not go to the dialogue because the configuration was not profitable for them. and now they are forced to go to the dialogue and they will be drawn into the dialogue, and if they are drawn into the dialogue, then e general points, they got on the hook for this sovereignty and territorial integrity, therefore that they are a permanent member of the security council of the united nations, they are one of the founders of the united nations, and, well , let's discuss about this , what is written in the un charter, being a permanent member of the security council of the united nations, well, somehow you know, no, not comilfo, that's why they got caught as they say these things, and then look at the nuclear dialogue russia was deterred, in fact, china was deterred from using tactical nuclear weapons because the chinese defense appealed to china

to communicate and hold a dialogue with russia so that nuclear weapons would not be used in this war the conventional and china managed to do it because of their leverage, having influence on russia, they restrained russia, but what will happen next? well, it is difficult to say, therefore, china undoubtedly plays an extremely important role. i am not talking about the economy. why are you there for three years from 19-20 and the 21st was the number one trading partner, opened the market for us and we compensated for those obstacles, where we could not supply to the european market, despite the fact that we had an agreement on free trade and an agreement, so it simply went to the chinese market and we started to make money at the same time, bilateral trade began to grow, well, this is how china plays, it provides access to its market, forms such economic and financial dependence, this is understandable, but we simply had no way out, we lost the markets of the cis and russia, we had not yet acquired the markets

of the european union, and we needed output for production is today not tomorrow and today china also provided i think that now some of the viewers have a question whether such friendliness of china is not toxic if they have changed the position and concepts in relation to china, the united states and the european union, and they have already changed these positions, and they praised china very strongly for the results, undoubtedly because they are dependent, because the united states is also extremely dependent on china , the minister of finance said that we are not ready for a direct confrontation with china because that we are extremely dependent on each other and the european union is extremely dependent on bilateral trade . the united states has 840 billion there under europe plus 690 - 740 there fluctuates, but the european market the main one for china, and the chinese market for europeans is a serious market where they even have large funds, so this dependence

is definitely meat, but the strategies, as i said, diversification is cutting, this already means that these are signals from china that everything from you will not focus only on you have a monopoly, we understand that we can make money there, but it is dangerous to make money with you, because ideologically you and we are different regimes, you do not go to dialogue there on human rights, on many things, yes , the economy, we cooperate with you, but even access to the market. we cannot get you to the european market , and we cannot always get access there to certain directions of yours, and therefore will gradually move away for ukraine. this means that we will go in the direction of the american european policy because these are our partners and we ourselves we consider it as a part of europe , which means that we will also gradually move away from china. but in the scheme of a bipolar bipolar, this is something of the apple of a bipolar

world. will china not or does it not intend to compete for the ukrainian solution? to say what he calls a conflict is a war well, but for some reason china calls it a conflict okay, won't he compete for a peace agreement between russia and ukraine with the united states, well, in the same logic in which he a-a conditionally put an end to relations between iran and saudi arabia would definitely like to get another victory and the army to fix its image in this way. this is what the united states is unable to do. china demonstrates that the united states is where the united states and the war in iraq , afghanistan, and syria are. and they are calming down. and for in order to continue this algorithm, they need new international victories , including the appeasement of ukraine and russia, it would be an extraordinary strengthening of the image of china, and i think

that they will play a certain role here and will compete, they are already competing if they came out with their twelve step by step, they were silent for a year and did not appear. we did not see them interfering in the war . there were some statements. there were separate statements. yes, humanitarian aid. 40 million for humanitarian aid . er, the balance of power shifted in the direction of ukraine. when ukraine demonstrated that it can defeat russia and russia can lose , that's when they got involved and came out with their twelve points in order to stop this process so that there is no destruction of the whole of russia , they will definitely compete, this says they say the statement that was made by official chinese officials who said that if the united states had not come and added fuel to the fire of the conflict, then the war would

have ended. but we understand that to stop shooting and sit down to talk, this is what moskovskii narrated, it is absolutely to leave the occupied territories behind them and without end, as in the minsk process , it means talking about nothing, and crimea and all our occupied territories will be russia's, what can he do, what can putin do, you know how -th prize to take in order to be re-elected for a new term and to say, look, we are sitting, we are already talking, we received new territories , the sea of ​​azov, our inland lake, that is, there are some victories. therefore, this scenario does not suit us, eh, when it became known about eh the fact that the chinese delegation, the chinese representative will be in life, some mass media burst out with headlines such as china threw in russia , is it possible to say that china will throw the eyes, it is not possible, as i said earlier, this is a political and diplomatic maneuver to expand, there are opportunities on