[000:00:00;00] these thanks are pinned comments special icons and the possibility of personal communication with the espresso team click to sponsor and become part of the community with a ukrainian point of view this is a scary place and such places have appeared again in ukraine we see them in liberated cities, torture camps we know about their existence in the occupied territories russian if he had rolled back to lviv again, it is very possible that this place would work again as a prison, as a place of destruction, unacceptable who knows where i would be, where you would be, but now it is a museum

at the cost of the lives of our soldiers at the cost of destruction the price that all ukraine pays is a museum and let it remain a museum forever news on espresso tv channel in the studio of iryna koval all of ukraine all of ukraine is currently red so please stay in safe places because there are enemy migs in the air that have not yet landed we let's move on to the most important news in the verkhovna rada, a solemn meeting was held at the end of the festive part , a blue-yellow flag was brought to the parliamentarians exactly 32 years ago, this flag was brought into the hall after the adoption of the act

of proclamation of independence of ukraine, let's let's look at the historical flag of independent ukraine. glory to ukraine. young people were born in independent ukraine. they are ambitious, motivated and love their country

. therefore, among the defenders there are quite a lot of young faces who would have their own. life , however, today forces them to take up arms to defend our motherland. so on independence day, we tell the story of a young warrior who, without exaggeration, is a flower the ukrainian nation and the face of independence, he is only 19 years old, but this young warrior with the call sign of heaven has already managed to feel and see the terrible realities of the russian-ukrainian war . at first, ilya devoted 5 years to volunteering , together with his colleagues, he visited the city of mariupol and later these events influenced his further choice the first thing i saw was very tired guys. so, thinking about why they should be here and i should rest somehow and go about my business until this

changed the large-scale invasion of the russian federation 24 in february 2022, from the first days, the boy worked at the bilotserk volunteer headquarters, but then he realized that this was not enough and tried to join the military, where i was sent away, to put it mildly , due to my age. chef's practice , telling the director i went for selection in the third storm troop in kyiv that's where i spent two weeks back here, the military commissar showed them a bill where they also tried to cut me off, but for a month i ran to them every day and

they were just tired. you see me every day . ilya chose the third separate assault brigade. this photo was taken five hours before his fatal mistake under the pincer , i made a mistake, took the wrong step back and got into the negative, as yuriy, the boy's friend and volunteer mentor, says , after learning about ilya's injury, he immediately i tried to contact him, but knowing the young man's steadfast and combative nature, i was sure that he would overcome any difficulties. he always dreamed of himself as a military man. i told him, let 's study and finish the bursa. then after that i say we will solve your problem with your future fate there in the army well he is impatient he lied

he ran away to study there for higher education he he is very polite with us he is so very moderate at the moment sky is being treated from a complex injury and he is undergoing rehabilitation, his only wish is to return to the ranks of his comrades and in the future he dreams of becoming a professional soldier, the real ones were at the top considering that these were the same guys with whom i lived in the same palace for four months on the training ground, the commander also became one of my friends, that's all it went great, the support for each other was top notch, their level of nationalism is simply off the charts and i want to be close to them , considering all my friends and parents , well, i want to give up, but if the brothers my opinion, of course i want to return. that's why i'm waiting for a prosthesis, rehabilitation with him and we'll see how it goes further at home , a family and a beloved girl are waiting for the defender, and even though such young ukrainians are not made for

war, the russians do not leave a choice to the young generation, how to take up arms and and you and defend the independence of your native country daria ruban oleksandr kuga espresso bila tserkva congratulated ukraine on independence day with new military aid in the amount of 41 million euros lithuania he defense of the baltic ukraine reported that the package contains ammunition for grenade launchers, rifles, radar complexes, maritime surveillance, ammunition, generators and anti-drone systems, let me remind you that the total amount of military support for the first full-scale invasion has already exceeded half a billion euros, how the history rewritten by the russians affects not only people in the russian federation, what should be built on a new understanding of our country and who is responsible for this terrible war about this and not only the conversation of the journalist

and publicist vitaly portnikov with the historian serhii plakhi, see further on our broadcast greetings, friends, i congratulate you all on the holiday and the interlocutors of our broadcast today, ukrainian and american historian, professor of the department of ukrainian history at harvard university, serhiy platyi , i congratulate you, mr. serhiy, and i also congratulate you on independence day. thank you very much . i congratulate you on the holiday. you personally with the presentation

of the taras shevchenko award , this is a very important marker for this award of your award. thank you. a sign of bad taste, but i will tell you that there were not many history books that i read with such interest as the last school textbook on the history of russia, written by the former minister of culture of the russian federation, medinsky , and the rector of the moscow institute of international relations, because you know when i read books by historians of your books i think that the gate of europe is such a beautiful philip from such an analysis of ukrainian history when i later read it in textbooks of medina for me it's like looking at it i don't even know how it is compare well, some comic from which i am trying to find answers to the question what is modern russia breathing? the modern russian elite , how it distorts distorts ukrainian history. i don't know if you have seen this book. yes

, i have seen it. i didn't read everything, but of course i paid attention to the last sections and feelings on the one hand really how do you say like a comic, that is, god in the textbook is maximally used any approach , any idea and this textbook is simply a great textbook of today's russian and radical nationalism, fascism, imperialism, that is, the terms can be any, but on the other hand, you understand that it is made from the point of view of influencing schoolchildren quite professionally, and that is, blatant, blatant unprofessionalism, historical and very, very dangerous professionalism when it comes to the way the textbook was formed and e

for us, for historians, it's like putin's article from the 21st year, on the one hand, you want to laugh, on the other hand , it's clearly for laughs, because it's because it's and the documents that form whether the crowds or the hordes or battalions that came to ukraine can pass to the future, this is a very important question, you and i studied history in soviet schools. i don't know how far it is possible to say that these history courses really influenced a large number of people and preserved in them an idea of ​​history that was later essentially destroyed by the communists for how long these dangerous narratives remain in people's heads. i mean for a long time, precisely when the social order changes, because we always say that putin's russia can come to an end. this means that

in the heads of those people who will learn from these textbooks in russian schools, here are these narratives of aggressiveness, contempt for everything not russian imperialism . will they remain even after this now? that is, the so-called laminopad is the year 2013-2014. imagine the soviet union existed in the 91st year, and the signs of the mark of the marker of soviet history remained, they remained much less or almost did not remain in in western ukraine or the baltic region, where mobilization began, including this protest, during the anniversary of the young molotov-ribbentrop pact, but in a significant part of the soviet union, a significant part of ukraine, it continued for

decades, for sure, and not only continues, and they are being pushed out not only so much to show that it is good or counts in some way scientifically or socially incapable but they are pushed out when other and other peoples appear and from my point of view i wrote about it the same lenin attack this apart from other things this also the moment when in ukraine they refused to live together in a world in which lenin is a hero and the victims of the holodomor mean the heroes of the victims and all this somewhere in the same village on the same square and they are celebrated at the same time. and one of these monuments was supposed to be torn down, it was a memorial glue. but it happened again in 2013-14 and in a large part of ukraine, as a result of this decision

of the verkhovna rada, not as a result of a decision. well, they will tell you that they actually tried to unite ukraine is such a mix of historical holidays or historical memory, do you remember the calls of ukrainian politicians who said let 's have different heroes in different regions , conditionally speaking, in the west, in the center, the heroes will be the fighters of the ukrainian rebel army, and in the east, there will be heroes conditionally speaking of stakhanov and artem, what does it have to do with ukrainian civilization itself? to be honest, it doesn't work, of course, i remember it very well , but it was not an attempt to unify ukraine.

what is there? it means that somehow the historical development was historically liked and here the question , on the one hand, reached the narrative and the continuation of the soviet existence, on the other hand, this question is more serious, and what should we do with the soviet heritage, the people who were interviewed in 14-15 years, uh, quite ukraine-oriented patriotic and so on said, well, they were able to get a place in donbas, take away the monument to lenin and what will remain there, there are no other monuments, the city itself was formed in the 20-30s, and this is a question later than just what it means to show what it means we are watching and did the fraudster give birth to the soviet i, no, i am short-lived, built on blood, this is the question of our

consciousness, what should we do with the long soviet period, what should we do with the same violinist, what should we do with the shared political history, that is, this is a more serious question that cannot be solved simply well, some kind of denial or mockery of a certain birth. but can it be said that we are the first to solve such a question ? i can cite the story of north macedonia as an example. years after its declaration of independence, the national heroes of macedonia remained on its iconostasis, they were members of the union of communists and komsomol members, but they fought for self -macedonian sovereignty as part of yugoslavia, then the next government tried to replace this historical narrative by referring to the hellenic heritage of alexander the great and his father, king philip, now i i would say that there is a search for new compromises between this communist period, i.e. the supporters

of macedonia's sovereignty and the pre -communist period when macedonia was a key part of the hellenic civilization they are looking for themselves, maybe we need to look for ourselves in the east as america does it i come to some american city and there are people who are heroes of some political battles or about them in the 19th-20th centuries, american cities were also created, i apologize, not in the 12th century it is not athens and not rome and not kyiv, but nevertheless they have their own architectural image and their own image of these settlements with the name of athens , which they are proud of. i completely agree with you that this is a search and what often looks like an annoyance to us, there are other

words, of course. for this, on facebook and in the public space and so on, there are elements of this search. and we are not unique . that is, we are a country that is emerging on the ruins of the former empire of a multinational country with a developed iconostasis and a national narrative, and we were not dropped somewhere from above, that is, on some kind of parachute, that is , parts, part of the same elite, the same sixties, they are also soviet soviet aquaments that is, it is a natural process of forming a nation from dmitri of the empire and a very difficult process of reconciliation of historical reconciliation of political reconciliation , that is, no, we are not unique on the other side

of each. each of these posts of persian nations has its own set of problems. some positive, er, historical elements , the so-called dys or passport, which can be used for this formation of a new idea, and ukrainians in this sense, we are blessed with a very, very good history, that is, there is something to turn to from that what is there is what are the kyiv shrines in addition to the fact that there is a very developed cossack narrative, a narrative of struggle in the 20th century against any invaders of very different invaders, that is, in e here we have if we cannot use it if we cannot come to an agreement due to a better understanding history means a better understanding of ourselves. well, we have no one to blame

but ourselves, and we are not deprived of history. well , here is very important. it seems to me that history is distorted and hidden at the same time. because when i resort to some historical events that i seem completely clear, because i thought that it was necessary to read and let's say the soviet or bolshevik version of history on the contrary, well, relatively speaking, to change the signs , then i very often come across a situation when it turns out that simply the events were completely different, that it was not an event in which there the conditional bad ones fought against the conditional good ones, and we ask you for the good, the bad, and vice versa, and understand how it all really happened, and then it turns out that it didn't happen, that it's all fiction, that it's all a myth here is the famous story with these panfilov heroes or the details of the famous exploit of zoya kosmodimyanska or how in the history of the second world war soviet propaganda

always talked about the exploits of soviet pilots, they were heroic people in my opinion , but they never reported that in principle the pilots of the reich were much more effective and efficient than the pilot of the soviet union and against this background of course, all this looks more or less heroic, but together with these more tragically the price of each flight becomes much different than it was in the soviet garden, you can cite a huge number of such examples . the very fact that we do not know the truth that we even invent truths for ourselves trying to somehow assess the situation. on the contrary, it seems to me that this is also very dangerous. yes, you know, i am hearing this for the first time. it's about you, well, to change it, on the contrary, i myself experienced this period and the end of the 80s and 90s , that is, the idea was that change the sign and all these will somehow manifest and you will understand it

, and this is also part of existence in the conditions of these ideological levels and the adoption of a certain on a certain side and relatively relatively textual concrete example that you gave in relation to planes and pilots and heroes filtrate if i do not recall from 40 to 50% of all losses of soviet aviation were related to the fact that from by mechanical malfunctions of planes, that is, from 40 to 50% of losses. that is, this is precisely the reality that you cannot understand simply by changing plus plus to minus and minus to plus , if indeed history is very, very multifaceted and propaganda, what is it, how does it work, that is, no

it is absolutely absolutely a lie, it happens like that. also, we take some aspect of a big problem and highlight it as a marker as a characteristic of the whole problem and change it from a plus to a minus. well , another aspect can understand this, but not the problem as a whole and only only it seems to me that the understanding of this history as a whole may be the truth that can challenge us . that is, this is the process, the process is much more complicated than the change of knowledge, another very important aspect that i always think about now, when it comes to testing for the future the european integration of ukraine this is a historical memory that divides ukrainians from their neighbors to the west . well, we see that as soon as the slightest aggravation of polish-ukrainian relations appears

. there is an official or intellectual as he says. until you accept our negativity, you will not get anywhere. now, literally these days, if you go to the transcarpathian region, you will see an absolutely amazing picture in the areas where the hungarian population lives. billboards that, so to speak, commemorate the tragedy of trianon, and in the areas where the ukrainian national lives, you see the same billboards dedicated to trianon, only it says that this is a triumph of historical justice and it is happening literally in one ukrainian region during the war, and it is of course quite serious to me i would say worried because i just imagine what will begin when real, you understand, not virtual but real negotiations of ukraine 's accession to the european union begin, and i think there may

be tools that have allowed us to find a common the denominator is precisely the historical tools, the dialogue of scientists, joint history textbooks that would remove all these layers of the past. of course, there is. the only thing that is needed for this is the necessary political will, and it is clear that history and various historical memories can provoke some political conflicts, but usually these things recede into the background when the politics change, that is , the great war between russia and ukraine began, which became a threat not only to ukraine , it is felt by the ordinary fishermen of poland and somehow historical historical debates at least on

for some time they took a back seat and the same polish society demonstrated a level of solidarity that was impossible at all. it was a dream. i am talking about the dominant role of politics in these historical discussions, not in order to remove responsibility from history, but to agree on some things it will simply be very difficult when there was a war on both sides and each side considered itself right in this at some points, you can just ideally, so to speak, put a pause, that is, that it is not always possible, but it is worth it, it is also worth thinking about and talking about it, that is, the same polish-ukrainian relations during the war of solidarity between the two countries. this may not be the best time to bring them up and

discuss them, because i actually recently saw an interview of a very good polish historian who came from kyiv tried to convince his opponent to accept certain certain truths, i.e. even our good friend , it is actually possible, i.e. i did not specifically name, and for me, it is an important moment for me , along with this, you know such a friend of ours who having such views, he goes to ukraine to show solidarity here , this is a very strange situation, which in principle could not be that a person, with such a quarantine, together, i am a sincere friend of the country, what is its history, whose past , to put it mildly, worries him, the truth that is what is

strange, of course, here just the moment that the discussion and these debates and disagreements are not conducted among the saints on the one hand and the sinners on the other hand means on the one hand the scoundrels and on the other hand the righteous, that is, on both sides of this discussion and it can be quite honestly from the point of view of both sides there are different there are different practices and because of this i am talking about the fact that such and such things are probably ethical now to put somewhere on pause for one side and for the other side but what i would like to add is also that well some elements in history lend themselves very well to some kind of heroization

, and other elements lend themselves very well to overcoming, for example, conflicts and contradictions , and for unification from the point of view of ukrainian memory, e-e, ukrainian memory , what is happening is extremely important today what has been happening since 2014 is the formation of the beginning of the 91st year, it was the formation of a virtually new ukrainian nation on a new basis, and unfortunately, the last few years , especially the last two, give examples of self-dedication, heroism, which is apparently difficult to find even in history, well, including even ukrainian history, we historians studied some four days of ukrainian independence in

kyiv. does eight or eight months under the german occupation of the hetmanship mean the foundation of the academy of sciences and so we have today, on the eve of the celebration of the day independence that is, we have how many 32 years, this is the 32nd anniversary, if i am not mistaken, 32 years of the existence of the ukrainian independent state, 8:9 years of the liberation war, these things that mean not only changed society, changed ours, but they also changed the future, the future of writing about history, and this has to become the basis for the ukrainian unification, the history of the ukrainian unification between 91-2014-2022-23, that is , it is worth paying attention to this history through which