[000:00:00;00] what will happen to pvk wagner without prigozhin, we are talking about it on the air oatmeal from ukraine live from london yevgenia shilovska after the alleged death of the top of this group who will share the legacy of the russian mercenaries and what will happen to their activities in africa and how will this affect the course of russia's war against ukraine so, in the history of the prigozhin plane crash in russia, there is still a lot of unknown, in particular, what happened there, there is a version about an explosion on board, there is a version about the attack of an anti-aircraft missile on the ground, the main

argument in favor of these versions is that the plane it probably began to fall apart in the air, so some of its fragments were found far from the fuselage, but there is no clear answer about the causes of the accident, as many as 10 bodies and black boxes were found at the accident site, i.e. the flight recorders of the plane - this is a statement of the russian investigative committee, and in moscow there was such a spontaneous memorial with portraits how do they believe the dead leaders of pvc wagner and the american ministry of defense said that they have no information that would confirm the theory about the downing of the plane, at the same time, the pentagon believes that prigozhyn probably died, and in the british the defense departments, as it became known from bbc sources, believe that the russian fsb is most likely involved in the plane crash. and what do they say in moscow? the day before putin first commented on the plane crash, expressed his condolences to the families of the victims and said that if wagner company employees were really there, the first data indicate that they were there. here such conditional wording, and

putin also called prigozhin a man with a difficult fate who had serious mistakes in his life. and about the fact that prigozhin two months before led an expedition to moscow that was called unsuccessful putin did not mention whether the bystanders could or could not be killed on the instructions of the kremlin. putin's greek priest piskov called such assumptions an absolute lie. there is no confirmation that yevgeny prigozhin and dmytro utkin died in the plane crash. - this is his call sign, so there is a lot of unknown at the same time bbc journalists tried to figure out what is actually known about this plane crash that remains only assumptions and rumors ephesian adventures yevhen prigozhin leader of mercenaries pvk wagner is presumed dead after his plane crashed on wednesday in russia, the russian aviation agency claims that prigozhin and wagner co-founder utkin were

both here's the list of passengers on the plane, but that didn't stop speculation on social media that he might have been on another plane at the time, what do we know about the accident, data from the flightradar aircraft tracking service show that the plane associated with the victim took off somewhere in the northwest of moscow on wednesday, it flew towards st. petersburg and then disappeared somewhere over the tver region, 300 km northwest of moscow, flight data also show that on the 15th and 19th gmt there was a sudden drop in altitude. this is also confirmed by the video footage of eyewitnesses that we checked earlier, here you can see how the plane falls from the sky quite suddenly and then close to the skin movie, the plane crashed, this is a satellite image that shows the consequences, here you can see the wreckage and tents, what caused the fall

, eyewitnesses say that they heard the sound of an explosion even before the plane began to fall, so they assume that the plane could have been shot down by the russian ppu these unverified photos show small holes in the fuselage some on social networks use this as proof of this theory however the photos are not of very good quality as you can see and this makes it very difficult to draw conclusions what they actually show another theory that is gaining popularity that on there was an explosion on board the plane , here is the popular russian telegram channel in a row, the explosive device on prigozhina's plane was placed in the chassis compartment, this is one of the theories that the investigation is considering, however , there is currently no convincing visual evidence in confirmation of this and this means that we will continue our investigation and tell you about its progress and ukraine

rejects its involvement in the plane crash near moscow. the president in russia rejects . to the russian authorities themselves, which again the kremlin denies, but how prigozhin's death will affect the course of russia's war against ukraine. this is how deputy defense minister of ukraine volodymyr gavrylov answered this question when his this was asked by our colleagues from the vpn program, get to know the criminal number one. this person is the number one criminal for us, if you take into account all the bad things he did in ukraine in this war, his team, his groups, his power , showed themselves very cruelly. people, the death of the leader of this group is a decisive moment, because the parishioner was a very symbolic and charismatic leader, so the loss of such a leader is of great importance for the group, first of all , they lose faith in themselves, lose

morale, they lose orientation, they they don't understand where to move next, i mean the rank-and-file. for us, this is a good sign, it will affect the stability of the regime in russia , it will create another crack in the pyramid of the russian criminal corrupt structure. so what will happen to the group now, what is the future of pvk wagner, will his death be a beauty if he really died at the end of the ten-year existence of this armed formation, observers believe that it is most likely that a separate unit will take what is left of the wagner pvk under its full control by working at a temperature of + 50 this is yevhen's last video parishioner who published wagner's telegram channel this week, it was filmed somewhere in africa, probably in mali, where this military group, wagner pvk is present, is popular in some countries of west africa, it displaced western contingents from there, and created profitable alliances with the undemocratic governments of those countries, for example , in the central african republic, it

provides the government's military and defense training services in exchange for diamonds, the group also accuses them of violating human rights, and the money they earn from raw materials in other african countries are financing russia's war in ukraine. in europe, wagner's troops left ukraine. however, they moved to belarus , from where part of the group then went to africa , but without their leader prigozhin, wagner is practically headless after the failed mutiny in the june group. they already had to hand over heavy weapons to the russian government, but what will happen with 20,500 soldiers and what will the group itself turn into, most likely the kremlin will take control of the russian army, a flower that helped create this organization 8 years ago, actively what will become of wagner will be much more mysterious, that is, they will be engaged in secret operations, training

armed groups insurgents, there will be more cyber operations, i think that is why the new leaders of the group come from russian military intelligence, strong evidence of who exactly shot down the plane may not appear at the moment , one thing is clear - the wagner group will not exist in its old form, but its future has not yet been determined. therefore, in addition to ukraine, the wagner group operated and is still operating in africa in an african country mali, the group is believed to have approximately thousands of fighters, the military leadership of maria asked for the support of russia and wagner to deal with groups related to al-qaeda, and the so-called islamic state , the correspondent of the arab service of vvskillani visited northern mali, he was the first journalist to go there since a year ago, france rolled up her military operations there, the beginning of a journey of thousands of miles across vast deserts to an invisible to the rest

of the world conflict where wagner's soldiers fight with it is impossible for jihadist and separatist groups to work here without a convoy of increased security and clothing so as not to stand out from the rest. it is a dangerous and difficult journey, but it is the only way to reach such camps as this one, the only school in the area teaches these children to recite verses from the koran by heart here all the education that these orphans who lived in the territory controlled by al-qaeda until the islamic state attacked and killed their parents can get here , we spent 5 days on the road to get to

this remote camp the history of these children may be hidden from the world, but they are another generation whose lives were destroyed by the so-called islamic state, fatima, along with her daughter and grandchildren, walked hundreds of miles from the village where they lived to get to the camp. the islamic state forced us to come here, they forced us all to come here. our men were killed they burned all the food or there is not enough food and some children have a fever they came here they found water and shelter so they stayed here maybe the jihadists are retreating in the middle east but their control over the african the sahal region is growing. they have a lot of influence here. most of the people in this camp lived in towns and villages that controlled the group. musa is associated with al-qaeda, like many of those who support al-qaeda here, which is made up of small local residents. he says he

prefers their strict but the orderly way of governing than the more violent one practiced by the islamic state is annamentasya with us in accordance with islam. innocent people they burned their houses cattle and shops they don't treat muslims like that alka is coming to help us she orders us to pray and follow the religion of the prophet with the escalation of the conflict between the jihadist groups last year mali authorities rejected western aid while support for russia increased on the streets many in mali made a bet on yevgeny prigozhin, and the french military operation ended . wagner's fighters arrived to replace them just a few days ago, a parishioner starred in this

video promising to rid the country of of the islamist threat, some of his supporters claim that the clip was filmed in africa. perhaps even in mali , the wagner group of rpd conducts reconnaissance and search activities. we make russia even bigger on all continents. africa is even freer . we stand for justice and happiness for african peoples. the state of alcado and other gangsters even before the death of prigozhin, pictures like this made the west suspicious of the plans of russian mercenaries in africa. pools like this gold bring huge profits to the group this is one of the many gold processing facilities in mali it is a small workshop with a small amount of heavy equipment where most of the washing and

melting of gold is done by hand but at hundreds of such facilities throughout the country mali manages to produce more than 60 tons of gold per year making it one of the five largest exporters in africa yet the west accuses wagner of violating human rights in africa in these photos released by the french military before leaving it is allegedly shown how wagner's fighters bury the bodies of those killed in mass graves in the east of mali bilal ahshar the leader of the tower group and the arabs in the region told us that wagner did not help the security situation in mali in the areas where wagner operates in north-central mali they committed many crimes they took people's belongings without innocent people were killed by choice they did not have a positive impact on security in the areas where they acted on the contrary, there are more displaced persons

who leave these areas in addition to this house, there is an increasing vacuum of power this month, the un contingent began to leave bases in small towns such as this one, leaving even more territory under the influence of the chhatists. the big question now is what role wagner can play in africa. african countries, however, belarus, as lukashenko stated, they will remain wagner fighters moved to belarus after an unsuccessful rebellion in the summer, and the belarusian government allocated them a military unit in the minsk region for the abandoned camp, radio journalists svoboda wrote that the tent camp there has been decreasing since the beginning of august and that there may be approximately 3,000 mercenaries

there now. that's it and we'll finish it by monday . congratulations friends mykola veresen vitaliy in this in these two hours they will talk to you less so that you don't look at me to bore us for five minutes we we calms absolutely so to speak the operation but nevertheless let's start our conversation oleksandr hare expert of the defense strategy center on foreign and security policy diplomat adviser to the minister of defense of ukraine 2020 congratulations sir oleksandr good evening reigns good health from the favorite

topic of all time yes, yes, tell us, mr. oleksandr , i wrote it down for myself, wagner everything or not everything, according to your opinion, i think you know everything. this is a very interesting story if you look at wagner did not only what he did, but he did it more precisely in ukraine and in africa and in syria. and this is still a typical russian story, starting there with andrii bogolyubsky or ivan er-e of this terribal. yes, in his wrong year again , that is, the king. this is all all the others. is the property of this first and most importantly, even the boyars or noblemen, as you can call them, they are property and can be allowed to own something, they can carry out some errands, but then the king became very confused and or some others , or he is not loyal, or there is a suspicion that

he has everything they take it away, and it’s actually the same story, because prigozhyn himself was a buyer for a long time. he knew all those devices from the days of st. petersburg, when putin drove around in a mercedes with a shotgun . that’s why those stories were told there. of course, he passed. especially since he is a criminal, that is, he sat out, that is, such a typical russian. it seems to me that the steering model for, and that is exactly why he is so popular, and now he is of course that he made a big sedition with this trip to moscow, and in this way actually undermined the most important thing that any mozkovite has the image of the ruler is that he controls it, that he punishes or pardons everyone, and this is absolute power, and of course, what with the fact that he is his closest, let’s say, assistants from the combat part, from the economic part

, most likely died in this plane. means that in fact that is the ball of these companies and the arrangement of hidden money that was connected with the alarming. of course, it did not disappear. the most important thing is that putin will definitely not make such a mistake when he trusts one person or one company with ustym's indian campaign, the opportunity to create his own a private army, although it is prohibited by russian legislation. well, trying to influence and play for treasure like that in the top league. that's why i think so, but this legacy, this money , connections. they will definitely be redistributed, and it is probably one of the reasons why was he removed so quickly? and he was there for about a year, and i think that it is access to money, primarily from africa, and the use of his presence by the wagners . approximately 5,000 militants from different countries will be considered there

as a foreign policy instrument . we saw it at the summit. russia, africa, how are these little dictators enthusiastically telling putin something? i mean, first of all , this colonel from neburkina-faso, but there were others there, and they all actually welcomed the mutiny of the seizure of power in the small e of course that this is what russia needs in order to destabilize the situation in africa because it offers something positive and they don't have it economically, so most likely i think we will hear the same mr. booth who is called a merchant of death, most likely a part of the company is important related first of all, weapons and other things will be transferred to him. i think that there will be a few more surnames, that is, wagner will work, but already as small companies under the control of another, larger number of people

. well, of course, under the control of... that i can, i will be the devil's advocate, but mr. prigozhin was very effective , and for the russians, for the russian authorities, for putin, for russia as such, and i am not convinced that they will find someone, but it is necessary to be exactly prigozhin. subordination and plausibility, i would say so. she is more important to putin than efficiency, because mr. prigozhin was extremely effective for putin. i have a hard time imagining where to find such a person in russia who can go to africa and syria and ukraine and here and there. and there is money everywhere and gold mining there are some companies, a shorter person is absolutely not. i would say unusually unusual because i don't see a single person around

putin who could show himself like that and show the effectiveness for putin of making money , military pressure on african countries and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and so on and you say something like that, i don't think so that it will be so easy to replace this person , definitely no, it is very good for us and it is very good for our own russians, because nothing will actually save putin with this mutiny and failed with this murder ah i i think that this will actually be such a signal that for the next people who will plan something like that, that the tsar should be killed without any extra options, because he does not fulfill the informal law or the agreement of the type of concepts like in the criminal world. well, it is not for nothing that russia is called a mafia state, although the states seem to me this too. we are exaggerating about this, that's why. of course, he will not be able to find such a person , but there are several people who can fulfill certain

uh obligations, the most important thing is that he needs a personal and in order to to use this money for an influence operation for subversive intelligence operations on the territory of other states , of course he will find several such people who can handle it, in fact, as far as i understand now, the first thing is the main thing from the management of the general staff of the russian armed forces, according to the information of even the western the media takes control of the wagnerites in africa and there , such an avilianov seems to be a colonel who was in charge of all these poisonings of a novice and in whom these petros and bashirov serve and who i understand that he was wagner's curator in africa, he is just now the direct manager, maybe we are exaggerating the importance alarmingly , because here is what, as well as assessments that he is some kind of effective manager, and the fact that he was an ordinary frontman who simply had a relationship

with putin and knows how to distribute money, but it was actually controlled by mutkin, it was actually controlled by people from the game and so on and so on. maybe it’s just a handsome man, he’s more of a cinematographer than a businessman . well, no, i think so. to be honest, he’s just been around for a long time, and he’s extremely good at it. before that, there were great connections there with the russian elites and security forces , including those where wagner was present in other countries. of course, he is not a genius , but against the background of others and of course the sweeps of all these years where putin is in power, he looks decent. yes, he was somehow alive. he was like that. i would say that the most important thing is that he pretended to be such a simple guy. and i think that she bribed these prisoners who fought for him . and structure

which used to deal with such things, wagner was simply needed in order to deny directly , let's say, the involvement of ensuring the involvement of the state of the russian federation in those things that they did, but on the other hand, you remember two months ago when this march of justice was and the kremlin propagandists were given the command to stun wagner and prigozhina, they told everything, that is, that in fact there was funding for both media projects and related ones, including the influence there, not connected to the united states, and actually these wages militants they were also paid from the state budget, that is, this is an illusion that this is some kind of truly private company and that there is a handsome man in his own right, but he is a patriot, that is why he kills ukrainians, it was dispelled, that is, he is part of this system, and it also shows, once again, that russia is unsustainable by the state, yes. in other words, it actually relies on such people because it cannot rely on the general staff and

the emergency special services . it is absolutely clear that the plan that they thought that ukraine would implement in washington was not carried out, because of course, including the delay in providing us with assistance, it was allowed to gain a foothold, and so there is a maneuver with you on this there was no attack, there were no offensive actions, it was not possible to do it. and that is exactly why the ukrainian military wisely looked at the need for some other tactic and chose the most reasonable one that works, biting the destruction of the rear and, let’s say, the creation of favorable conditions for

to break through and it looks like this is happening now, that is, i honestly wasn’t particularly worried when they wrote at the event that everything was lost. yes, ukraine used all its resources because i understand that the americans themselves had already made a mistake from february 24 to february 24 of last year. here i go . and plus of course we understand that the help that is provided is in a limited amount for a reason and we are constantly being asked about it. and you definitely need it. well, you don’t have enough resources to fire someone, but of course we are planning this to do well, here you are, there are certain contradictions, and actually i think that everything is fine , and there is a grain of data that gets into the actual media and the telegram channels that we all read, they claim a rather optimistic picture. enemies, so i think everything is fine

, and in fact, after we get through this first part, which seems to have already been done , it will be somewhat easier, not like there will be a repetition of some kharkiv history, it will be easier, i will, i hope that actually, well, this there will be the beginning of the collapse of the russian defense in the south and er irreversible actions in the russian federation, then factor privozhena will play its evil joke with the russian tsar. to oleksiy, professor of political science of the vocational academy , scientific director of the foundation for democratic initiatives named after ilko kucherev, we hope to see you now, oleksiy, we will see you , oleksiy, good health, sir, thank you they found time for us on friday evening, not everyone will volunteer to find time for

us always for you and for you good taste, mr. gran , see the first question, you often visit africa and research what is happening and now everyone is around prigozhin, was there really such an influence of the russians in africa, first of all, the sahel in that zone, that is, i am always quite skeptical about it because i understand when the americans , i understand when the french, i understand when the chinese with money, what is there, apart from wagner, in the russians that can allow them to really influence well, yes to seriously influence how the soviet union influenced, i can't find evidence of this. please tell me your opinion on this matter. well, since the soviet union influenced russia, it definitely doesn't work, yes, or during the soviet union there were at least four people's republics in africa and

there was also a country called socialist ethiopia and a bunch of countries declared a socialist orientation , in fact it did not exist. it was, so to speak, only the upper layer , such influence in the image as only in the soviet union ended a-a the funds that he supplied to these countries as i announced themselves by narcissistic regimes, that is, the influence of the soviet union definitely fell, and russia then only began to try to restore its position, it partially succeeded, but partially, and you are right, it is primarily due to the military-political assistance of the dictatorial regime, the regime that violates human rights here russia yes, russia