[000:00:16;00] greetings, i want to start our conversation with such an intimate topic, if it can be called an intimate topic , what do you think? the homeland of the hero, as it was then accepted , stavkysh was born in rysa during, by the way , paton hid him from the opal in ukraine for several

months, you see, you also remember this and this a bust simply because it is a bust twice heroes of the socialist spice it was safely idle before the russian-ukrainian war and now it was dismantled by the decision of the riga city duma it made a decision to dismantle it i don't even know if it has already been dismantled or not the stars of the hero of socialist labor were dismantled from it very it was ten years ago, and here is a portrait of boris paton standing in front of you. boris was also twice a hero of socialist labor and has not been dismantled yet. and now the question arises whether this bust with the stars of the hero in the center should stand kyiv is not a question about paton's personality, it is concrete, an outstanding scientist, the face of ukrainian science. of course, he is a man with soviet views for quite a long time, but now you can go to those beautiful places and see a book about volodymyr shcherbytskyi with its premise, but we are not even talking about paton's contribution about what is it in the bust, as you know, as a pseudo -roman style placed twice heroes of the soviet union by the decision of the socialist labor by the decision of the presidium of the supreme

soviet of the ussr, should he be there, i'm just talking about it i thought that maybe how did i take off these two stars? maybe i’m not convinced, but i can’t say for sure that i took off exactly. but maybe the meaning of paton is not that he says a meeting is not a job, it’s that what else is possible i would take it off , but paton’s bust is definitely by the way one, in addition to the fact that there was a history of skledesh, the academy of sciences at one time did not agree to the construction of the chernobyl nuclear power plant as they were not pressured . well, i think that paton simply had such opportunities as a member of the central committee of the cpsr. at all, it is not much at all how to analyze now the history of this heritage of the ukrainian ssr, which was obviously a colonial entity, but there were always people who somehow tried to at least

preserve their own idea of ​​decency in science and culture, we remembered that the central committee of the cpsu i very well i remember oles gonchar, when he was a member of the central committee of the cpsu, he gave me an interview in defense of academician andriy sakharov , it was a great support for me when i was a young man , you understand. i would never write such a text myself would print, no one would simply not allow but along with that, for many people gonchar is a soviet writer and the head of the council of soviet writers, there are a lot of such people, but with all that, this government, well, i have the power of independent ukraine, the street was called the hound . of course, this is local self-government, but you see when it was now we tried to protect the renaming of the streets. i'm not even talking only about gonchar, there is a desire for a street, er, avenue . yes, we don't have kremenchuk avenue , although the question arises again, the desired kremenchuk is two figures in the soviet

of cultures, one is actually stigmatized and the other still looks like what we have. korniychuk was largely stigmatized because of vasilevska's bath. i have such doubts. it can't be because he didn't have a single non-soviet work. if you come up with something, nothing will come out . it seems to me that he is not himself. i myself was spermized because of her, because to her, well, i understand what claims there can be, so what to do according to soviet science, this is from ukrainian , how is it, how is it, because science has no nationality, well, no science can have well maybe there are claims against humanitarians. if it is not science, but something like that. but if it is science, then what kind of claims can there be? well, we can't cancel newton's fault . what does it matter who he was with? i understand that the french revolution does not need mathematics, but less so, we are already living in another century, but what was the brightest

figure of ukrainian soviet science for almost several decades in a row, neither academician paton korolyov nor academician lysenko i mean from the point of view of the official ones the main figure no no no well how come no well if you and i now move to the 60s we will go out to shevchenko boulevard and ask any person which scientist she knows paton will still be not lysenko in the 60s already paton is definitely paton i i thought it was just possible glushko maybe korolev maybe amosova from our point of view an objective new contribution and i'm talking about the myth and the myth is not the same paton well paton it was paton maybe because the ministry of health was always paton no one took it apart , you see son yes, no one not paton m-m maybe this uh-uh because of this uh-uh not because of what he is

i tried as the president of the academy of electric welding, it's definitely a scientific discipline, but i'm just asking, it's also a good question. i don't know if it's a scientific discipline, but it's at least something that made it possible to create something that didn't exist before, i mean not even space. i mean i mean welding a person, well, vessels and the rest, they did it. it's true, it's it. exceptional things, i'm generally very bad . to be honest, i understand this division into disciplines , what is economics for, what is social science ? well that's it science is certainly applied, yes, maybe not fundamental, but is it a separate science or not? it is difficult to say whether it is a branch of a branch, but i want to understand two things, but in the soviet union , the academy of sciences of ukraine really functioned

, or was it a conditional institution? by the way, it was applied rather than fundamental, at least if we talk about economics. it’s hard for me to talk about those bastards . well, i’m not like that. economics was definitely more applied, but actually a lot they did a lot and helped, they helped the authorities by what they created, not that there was a scientific basis, but they created a program of actions that was scientifically based, not what they were forced to do, and what they did, but what had to be done for geographical reasons, for demographic reasons, for financial reasons, that is, they tried to balance it all in such a way in such a way that it was normal and

, by the way , the ukrainian academy of sciences contributed to the crimea . they argued less and maybe thanks to paton maybe not but i can’t say i can’t separate the influence of paton and the influence of the academy itself you understand that everything was associated but paton could say no to anyone the story of skeltych in particular is an example a what happened in the post-soviet era now with the academy of sciences do they exist or is this also the problem, we are losing not just young people, we are losing potential because, well, with this money that is being paid now, when they start telling me that the ukrainian academy of sciences does not

work so efficiently, how is german, french american, another one. i ask, count on the money and it turns out to be completely different. this is the first. and the second is what we think . well, we know, we think that it is necessary to borrow someone's experience, in particular, for the development of science. well, let 's say anglo-saxon, where is science in universities? in our country, she has never been to universities, in order for her to transfer to a university, it is necessary to remove at least half of their workload from the teachers, at least i am not convinced that this will give results, but at least it should be done, and with their workload, they they cannot also work on research, the educational process must be planned in a different way, at least for masters, if not to touch bachelors, and so on, and we

just start copying well, unfortunately, but you mean that in western universities there is already a separate scientific activity separate teacher as a direction and by the way industrial practice, so to speak yes, but there is not only an anti-saxon system, there is a german one. i apologize there, i am an analogue of the academy of sciences, absolutely a society of max plank. well, here it is 100%, there is an analogue, there is a polish one the academy of sciences is like the one we have. well, there are different options. and we start, we grab something and start to form it. unfortunately, i can just see even from my institute, we pray , we lose our desire to study at

a graduate school. yes, there is, but later they go they don't stay in sight they get knowledge they get a degree they go there business and why is a person here i am not really why a person it turns out that it helps when you get a job in some business e.e. job and when you don't have phd or candidate of science then it helps the authority adds well, and then i think that i can, it is also related to the fact that people simply do not find the opportunity to live on this scientific activity. no, it is definitely because of this that they leave. by the way, it is very important to understand how this has affected the last 17-18 months because a lot of people who, well, at least for women . let's hope

now opened completely unexpected prospects, we don’t think about it, but it’s a fact. well, i have several colleagues , honestly , it’s not the worst, far from the worst. waiting for employment, but what to do with this lost resource, this is also a very important point, because we talk about the lost resource from the point of view of just the number of the population, we often talk about this, the truth is, we can talk about the quality of 50% of our women who are abroad, these are the data of the germans and the data of the poles are not mine, they have a higher education , you understand that they went abroad with their children. it is not the least that they tell me that those who have been here behind their husbands, fathers, and so on all their lives have gone. it is not true who was behind

they didn't go, they were afraid because there is no back there. and that's why we can lose a lot . well, i'm very afraid that after uh, canceled after the victory, after the cancellation of martial law, uh , reunification of families will happen, but not in ukraine, risks and that longer the war will continue the more infrastructure and production, housing, and all kinds of other things will be destroyed, the greater the probability that this will happen is a very important point, which we are already starting to talk about cautiously, they are talking about it in the west that in the first months of the war, after the great attack, we did not, i would say that even a certain period from the 14th to the 20th of the second year we forced russia to act according to our scenario, we all wanted to have our own scenario, well, let's say a quick change of power, and yes, the occupation

of a large number of territories, we disrupted all this first of all, the world kept russia from war for a long time from a big war, then they interrupted this possibility of a blitz and from some point russia implemented the actual scenario of delaying events, and the question arises as to how well we are able to adapt to this scenario, because i have the impression that society does not adapt to it, she just believes that everything will somehow end and we will be our own scenario, so i will restore the country, rebuild it, and it would all be wonderful. if only it happened, but if we still find ourselves in this scenario prolongation of events can we impose our own scenario of life in its place, our resources are completely too different, the loss

of a million people for ukraine is a catastrophe both in a moral sense, in a mental sense and in a simple quantitative sense for russia. no, i cannot. we have lost a demographic million e well, this has already happened, but the question arises as to how to live in this , many countries were rebuilt in this way, not to say a catastrophe, it is easy how to live, as it is called, we will be able to. the question is when it will happen. you cannot do it during military operations, and not after being rebuilt all the time, what do you mean? well, we have already taken certain actions , which were carried out. relocation of enterprises . i'm sorry. stimulus for the population that remains in risky areas , so far i don't see this stimulus.

in order for the population to remain there no, i understand this and i say that today we are interested in preserving our people as much as possible , because i repeat for the millionth time the state is not factories, it is not factories, it is not banks, it is people, and if people remain here, well, much less than before the war. i am not talking about the war, even i am talking about other things. what kind of territory does it need a certain population size ? before the war, there were about 45 people per square kilometer, which is less than the average in europe if compare, let's say, with norway, there were 14, but i'm sorry, we have a different territory and a different economy. the same thing is trying

to talk to you about the fact that we will have to rebuild the economy and territorial capabilities, how can we organize this territory if there are significantly fewer people than this it is minimally necessary for its organization, that is what i apologize for earlier. if i were a german academician or a frenchman , i would have thought. well, really, you don’t have such experience , you don’t know how it is done, but you lived almost most of your life in the soviet union, that’s all life has come how much is there empty territory was two-thirds somehow empty territory was siberia well what is in the territory that is the question no one paid attention to how vladivostok is developing how khabarovsk krai is developing and how is siberia

in general, the taiga and let them live here is a different situation, i mean a different territory, if we had a territory from the point of view of tradition , economic point of view of geography, forest-steppe, forest-steppe - this is a forest-steppe, it is not a forest . rura, there were huge enterprises there, all this is the end of its history. well, somehow they organized this territory, people left there , but less, but still there is more than that. believe me, there is a risk that there will be significantly less in kherson region than in rura and on donbass, well, about donbass, i don't know what will happen to him at all. i really don't know what being good with him means, then anyway, it's important to understand when we have to talk about it with you now or after the end of the war. now we are talking about it and we are talking

about what we have, when we talk about the recovery of the economy of ukraine, we should not talk about the recovery of the economy of ukraine in general . we have to talk about the restoration of the western territories we have to talk about the restoration of central ukraine we have to talk about the restoration of metropolises these are five completely different approaches for each of the segments of each of them and we have to understand this today both the academy and the department of economics and i personally are trying to do this report to the authorities because ukraine is a poor country and it will remain poor in 5 to 10 years, well , realistically, looking at all the things that have been destroyed, well, no matter how much we try

to rebuild, we will remain a poor ukraine in in a poor country, the population always gathers around the capital and metropolitans , we currently have five of them, let's say lviv is also considered a metropolis, although there are not a million there, maybe already, uh, no , lviv does not have a million. b will be donetsk in normal condition, it will be the sixth metropolis but no matter what happens , the population will gather around these cities because the labor market is more developed there, because there is a housing market there, because there are opportunities, it is necessary it is necessary, it is necessary, even if it will be shelled, i am absolutely convinced that kharkiv will pull out the kharkiv region, but i have great doubts about the sumy chernihiv region, especially in the northern part, but

kharkiv will pull out, like kharkiv, it will pull out the whole region, in some ways, it will definitely lose, well, let's put it this way, i would well, i considered it inexpedient to store military-industrial enterprises there, well, it is necessary to calculate the military-industrial complex from there. yes, yes, but the rest is a technical center, a technological center , i had no doubts. accept and if the ports are blocked, what will happen to odesa? it will remain a metropolis, due to which it is not only the ports of odesa - it is odesa that concentrates the entire south on itself, the question is how much the south will be destroyed, how quickly we will be able to rebuild it, that's why i say what the south separately, the west separately, the west because there is an ecological capacity there, which, according to our ecologists, is already

exhausted, there are certain reserves in lviv oblast and frankiv oblast for industrial construction , ecological reserves mean the rest there are simply no regions anymore no volyn no bukovyna no transcarpathia well, nothing, just nothing why? mountains, and this is already not enough there, it is possible to move some more to the lviv region, to the frankiv region, it is possible, it is true, but that is all, and that is why all our conversations are that we are going there, it is not known that it seems to me very doubtful from the point of view of logistics, and because poland is nearby in the west the borders are nearby, well, there are no questions here, the russians are a force pipe, they can

fire rockets from the side next to romania - it’s one thing, artillery is another, even i understand that. that’s why it ’s not kharkiv, let’s be honest, but there’s no place to transport there , that’s why it seems to me. i understand, well, i’m just a person who has nothing to do with the military industry, but it’s just that in geography it is understood and so is the rest that we have to look at the central regions in a different way, maybe you can’t get artillery there after all well, with missiles, with drones, with a strong one, you can fight with the help of air defense, so there is a chance to move there, well, in addition to disintegrating , and so on and so on and so on well, it still creates prospects that large areas in the east and south of the country will be - where industrialized

can be said so definitely yes yes to the extent that people today do not understand it very much no not at all people are people, if only the government would understand if people do not understand this and they continue to live in deindustrialized regions we are facing a serious problem unemployment in large parts of the territory, people who are ready, able and able to work are leaving there today, mostly older people will remain there. this is not about unemployment, it is processing. and what difference does it make to the state , a person lives simply, but to maintain a region in which there is a huge social burden and there is no working population is much it is more difficult than the district, you know, the struggle with terminology is good, but central ukraine also obviously has some ecological capacity

. it seems to me that it is far from being exhausted there very far, well, at least this information that i receive from our lessons every day, every hour, every minute, we receive a large amount of information, what is really happening at the front, what are the losses of personnel and equipment on the battlefield , how does the international community evaluate our successes? we single out the most important ones from closely monitoring whether there will be weapons for ukraine and what kind of commanders the news . summary of the week - this is an overview of only important events, events with the weight of credibility - this is analytics, expert checks, expert comments, much more today, sports

deals about important things in simple language are available to all viewers, congratulations studio iryna koval and this is the summary of the week on the espresso tv channel, the news, the summary of the week that saturdays at 21:00 naespresso is a scary place and such places have appeared again in ukraine, we see them in liberated cities torture camps, we know about their existence in the occupied territories of the russian world. if he had rolled to lviv again, it is very possible that this place would have worked again as a prison, as a place of destruction. it is unacceptable. who knows where i would be, where

you would be, but now it is a museum at the cost of our lives. soldiers at the price of destruction , the price that is paid . all of ukraine is a museum and may it remain a museum forever. there is a danger of hypertrophy of kyiv in a situation where kharkiv odesa. what will happen then here in the capital of ukraine is definitely more difficult than it was , but you know it will be more difficult regardless of how kharkiv and dnipro and odesa will develop, it will be more difficult because of the fact that we already have a decline in the standard of living of the population. as you perfectly understand, we will continue to have a decline and even after the recovery begins, the question of when it will begin, uh, even after this immediately, well

, you know, such a rapid outbreak, tomorrow you will be lucky, the same will not happen, that's why people will concentrate more and more in kyiv. that is to say, this is actually the moscow model of the state, to pour it on the american one , well, it’s almost the same thing. why is it better, and there is no such government? well , there is no government, but the economic situation itself is so similar, yes, no, we we still won't, we won't be able to implement the russian model , even if we wanted to, we don't have that many natural resources. no, i'm not talking about that. i'm talking about the hypertrophy of a specific city. lviv, first of all, not only all all metropolitan cities and kharkiv and odesa and dnipro kharkiv and odesa dnipro yes and he is definitely for me and zaporizhzhia

is definitely such another center capacity still small residential capacity in order for the city to be able to concentrate a lot of population, it is necessary that housing should be above all from vinnytsia. i don't see housing stocks starting to be built today, or at all what can happen with such investments , how much people are ready to invest in. what a light, i am simply madly surprised by the fact that the cost of housing in kyiv is increasing in the primary market, in the secondary market, i would understand an increase in the cost of rent would be understandable, but the cost of housing is increasing, but in ukraine it was considered that it is better to have your own apartment between them , it is not known what and what with your investments, a person, as a rule, in the conditions of a post-soviet state and

in general, the latin american economy, which you have mentioned with such pleasure, you are today and tomorrow never lives . well, you know, there are a large number of students , the situation has changed, but they invest in housing because, firstly, they grew up winning, and secondly , they believe that after the war available housing. this will be a very serious financial resource, but don't think that people just had such a large amount of free money in a certain amount . some of you do not know where to put it . well, i am asking you if there was a desire if people live here if for people if people are people or a person is showing abroad there are no problems true true to leave their husband they want to live here the husband cannot leave they are buying a house because they moved from kharkiv to kyiv