[000:00:00;00] he is also trying to talk to you about this, about the fact that we will have to rebuild the economy and rebuild territorial capabilities . can i, i don’t quite understand, organize this territory if there are significantly fewer people than the minimum required for its organization, that’s why i apologize again if would you be german academics or french , i thought well, really, you don't have such experience , you don't know how it's done, but you lived almost most of your life in the soviet union, all your life, i understand that it's empty there two-thirds of the territory was somehow empty

. the territory was siberia . well, what is on the territory? that is the question. another territory, if we had a territory of tradition, economically, from the point of view of geography , forest-steppe, forest-steppe - this is a forest-steppe, it is not a forest. its history well, somehow they organized this territory, people left there , but less, but there is still more than believe me, there is a risk that there will be much less in the kherson region than in the ruri and in the donbas, well, in the donbas , i don’t know what’s wrong with him i really don't know what it means to be good with him then anyway it's important to understand when we have to talk about it with you now or after the end

of the war now well and we're talking about what we have er when we talk about restoring the economy of ukraine we should not talk about overall recovery of the economy of ukraine she should talk about the recovery of the south, about the recovery of the territory close to the borders with the aggressive neighbors of both of us, we should talk about the recovery of the western territories, we should talk about the recovery of central ukraine, we should talk about the recovery of metropolises, these are five completely different approaches to each of the segments of each of them, and we have to understand this, but today both the academy and the department of economics and i personally try to convey this to the authorities because ukraine is a poor country and it

will remain poor after five in 10 years, well, realistically, looking at all the things that have been destroyed, no matter how we try to rebuild, we will remain poor ukraine in a poor country, the population always gathers around the capital and metropolitsev, we have five of them today, lviv we also consider it a metropolis, although there aren’t a million there, maybe already, er, no, there aren’t a million in lviv . there aren’t even immigrants. believe me, there’s no place where they left more than that. if donetsk is in normal condition, it will be the sixth metropolis. but no matter what it is around these the population will gather in the city because the labor market is more developed there because there is a housing market there because there are opportunities it is necessary it is necessary it is necessary even if it will be shelled i am absolutely convinced that kharkiv will pull out kharkiv oblast i have great doubts about sumy chernihiv

the region to the northern part especially, but kharkiv will pull out like kharkiv, he will pull out the whole region in some way, he will definitely lose , well, let's say it, i would consider it inexpedient to keep military-industrial enterprises there, well, it is necessary to to calculate yes yes yes yes but the rest as a technical center a technological center i had no doubts well good i am ready to accept it and if the ports are blocked what will happen to odesa it will remain a metropolis i definitely wanted at the expense of what it is not only ports odesa is odesa that concentrates on for the whole south, the question is how much the south will be destroyed, how quickly we will be able to rebuild it, that's why i say that the south is separate, the west is separate, because there is an ecological capacity there, which, as our

ecologists say, has already been exhausted, there are certain reserves in lviv oblast and frankiv oblast for industrial construction, ecological reserves mean the rest of the regions , there is nothing any volyn , bukovyna, transcarpathia well, nothing, just nothing personal well, because there is an ecological capacity, what does this mean , you can explain to the audience, er, water, it is free territories that are not under the swamps, which are not under the forests, not under the mountains, well, this is not enough there, you can move some more to the lviv region, to the frankiv region, you can, it’s true , but that’s all, and that’s why all our conversations are that we we are going there, it is not known that it seems very dubious to me from the point of view of logistics, yes, because poland is close to the western

borders, well, there are no questions about the russians, this is a powerful pipe, they can fire missiles from the side next to romania - this is one thing, artillery is inertia, i understand that, so it is not kharkiv region, let's talk frankly , but there is no place to transport there, so it seems to me. well, as i understand, well, i'm just a person who has nothing to do with the military industry, but it's just that, in geography , the rest of what we have is understood in a different way look at the central regions, it is possible to go there, after all, you can’t get artillery there, well, with missiles, with drones, with everything. well, you can fight with the help of air defense, so there is a chance to move there, well, besides that, to consolidate and so on and so on and so on well

it still creates prospects that large areas in the east and south of the country will be industrialized, you can say that definitely yes yes, to the extent that people today do not understand it very much no, not at all, the people are the people, if only the government understood if the people do not understand this and they continue to live in deindustrialized regions. we are faced with a serious problem of unemployment in large parts of the territory. people who are ready and able to work are leaving there today . most of the older people will remain there. this is not about unemployment, this is a concept. what difference does it make to the state? there is a huge social burden and there is no working population , it is much more difficult than the district, you know, the struggle with terminology is good, but central ukraine

also obviously has some ecological capacity it seems to me that there is a long way to its exhaustion, well, at least this information that i receive from our injections and there is a danger of hypertrophy of kyiv in a situation where kharkiv odesa i do not know how the dnipro, we must also discuss this separately, cannot develop intensively as industrial centers can only the extensiveness must somehow be maintained for a certain time , what will happen here in the capital of ukraine is definitely more difficult than it was, but you know, it will be more difficult regardless of how kharkiv and dnipro and odesa will develop, it will be it is more difficult due to the fact that we already have a fall in the standard of living of the population. as you perfectly understand, we will continue to have a fall and even after the recovery begins , the question is when it will begin even after

this, well, you know a rapid outbreak, tomorrow you will be lucky, the same will not happen because people will concentrate in kyiv more and more. that is, in fact, this is the moscow model of the state, latin american , american worse. why is it better, and there is no such government there? well, there is no government but itself the economic situation is so similar yes no no we still we won’t be we won’t be able to implement the russian model even if we wanted to we don’t have that many natural resources no i’m not talking about that i’m talking about hypertrophic specific cities it’s true what cities can in this situation to think about the influx of the population of kyiv-lviv, first of all, only all metropolitan cities and kharkiv and odesa and the dnipro kharkiv and odesa and the dnipro are given unconditionally

zaporizhzhia is definitely another such center , the capacity is still small, the capacity for housing in order for the city to be able to concentrate a large population, it is necessary for housing to be above all from vinnytsia. i do not see housing stock to start building today or in general what can happen with such investments, how much are people willing to invest in what a light i am simply madly surprised by the fact that the cost of housing in kyiv is increasing on in the primary market, in the secondary market , i would understand the increase in the cost of rent , it would be understandable, but the cost of housing is increasing, but in ukraine it was considered that it is better to have your own apartment , you will fit into the house, it is not known what and what about

with your investments, a person, as a rule, in the conditions of the post-soviet state and in general the latin american economy, which you now mentioned with such pleasure , you are today and tomorrow never lives well, you know, there are a large number of students , the situation has changed, but they invest in housing because , well, first of all grew a victory, and secondly , they believe that after the war there will be housing. this will be a very serious financial resource, but do not think that people simply have such a large amount of free money in a certain amount some of you that they don't know where to put them, they invested abroad as if they had the opportunity well, i'm asking you if there was a desire if people live here if for people if people people or a person wants to go abroad there is no problem true true leave your husband they want to live a man cannot leave here. they buy housing because they moved from kharkiv to kyiv. by the way

, what klitschko is saying now is that we have practically recovered the pre- war population. returned came here from kharkiv from dnipro zaporizhzhia from melitopol i don’t know from kharkiv from dnipro zaporizhzhia yes yes there is such a shuffling of the population this is a reality this is not a shuffling it is a shuffling and shuffling and shuffling the population moves from the east of the south to the center and there are no people in the scum no i do n’t that’s a question to me, this is a question to you. why will there be people, why are there people, people from lviv now because there are opportunities not only, firstly , there is an opportunity, and secondly, it is safe here, in fact , it is hotter in kyiv than in uzhhorod than in

uzhhorod is no better than in lviv. lviv during this war, believe me as a person who lives for two months, how many living people are there in kyiv, 2 or three, the plot was the same , yes, well, i think that people who live in lviv do not feel that way they feel less even in the second, third, in the 25th generation, these yes people who came to lviv in turn can come to kyiv because kyiv can be better protected from a defensive point of view from uzhhorod it is clear that no one will go because there as far as i know nothing for the whole war well, we will hope as soon as it happens, yes, yes, there is logic in this, even in chernivtsi, well , there were one or two less, of course, and you know what the problem is

in kyiv, after all, there are a lot of new buildings that even in the case of getting there uh, well, for some reason they don't add up like houses of cards, that's true, yes and there , god forbid, the entire housing stock yes yes well, not for the most part well, it's a huge project, much bigger than here well, good and when you talk about the fact that these five clusters exist as far as they are are being developed at the official level is it exclusively work so far we are working so far i don't see in this matter not that i understand support i don't see unfortunately maybe i'm wrong maybe not five maybe four maybe eight classes i don't know but about it

we need to think and this needs to be discussed. and i don't see this yet. we are starting conversations. there is a territorial community, there is a district, there is a region. but that's not what we need to talk about right now . we will not rebuild the economy. cherkasy dared buchi, well, somehow it won't be like that at all, and when we invite an investor here, we have to offer him something, and we need to offer different things if we invite an investor, let's say to the north of sumy region or chernihiv region. i think that we need to offer something to the investor so that he will go there came this could be israel's options , maybe it could be the option of military towns, maybe i don't know, there are many options, but we can

give the authorities a painting, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, but the authorities have to choose what she will do something. i don't really remember that anyone in israel really wanted to invest in a peace agreement with egypt, of course there was industry there, there were factories there, there were jewish initiatives, but everyone understood that they could lose it, but less was invested there and the dutch heights also invested, it was already uh and it was state policy well, i know that she can lose it all the truth is that the state of israel invested in the sinai peninsula now when we arrive in the conditions, in short, there as vacationers this sinai peninsula is not there and the prices were not for it. egypt, i am telling you about the natives, you were not there either. well, well, in any case, the resort guests who were in egypt, they were definitely there, they look at us when they come

to us, they see and valuable israeli investments there can be hotels that were built during the time of israel , it does not exist now, only yes. i am not saying that a private investor will just come there. i mean the subject, but the state should encourage a private investor to come there. insurance of the risks of investing in these insurances, it can be different, there are different options, the state itself should go to such places, and not often , the problem is also a topic for discussion , absolutely we are talking about this and we are saying let's think , let's gather, let's discuss, let's decide, because when we get kicked out , it will be too late. we must drive out and have a plan a b c d and i am absolutely convinced that we must have different plans for different territories

in accordance with the final of the war also probably yes because the semi-final of the war can also be different there can be one line of conflict another state border with shelling state border without shelling if such luck befalls us and we can agree that there will be blue fairy tales blue fairy tales yes and that there will be no army for 50 km russia is a member of the security council well and that there were no fairy tales there it will become a member of the un security council has nuclear weapons, okay, let's have this option , yes, you can't, yes, i can dream. you have to give a clear scientific version of the fact that it is necessary to proceed from various options for peace agreements. everything is accepted . yes, i am pavel poland. if yes, then yes.

if they stand at the border and we have to do something, that's another question. well, and so on. if there's putin, then putin's. if not putin, then not putin. well, i mean, what can be a peaceful border, it can't be a peaceful border, any the situation of people living there in a 50-kilometer zone of shelling, but this territory is controlled by the ukrainian state. it can develop one way or another . well, it has to, if people live there. it has to develop, moreover, if it is our territory, then it has to develop and encourage certain categories of people. okay, but to encourage people to live there, otherwise it will not develop, but again, this creates not only economic, i would say such a social, political, ideological brand of questions in israeli settlements, if you have already mentioned israel on the west bank of the jordan river, who once lived, when we israeli settlement in the gas sector ideologically motivated people, you and i, if we went

to live in israel, relatively speaking, we most likely decide that we live in an internationally recognized territory because the rules are true , because we will be guided even not ideology and economic considerations, because this is property, we buy it, we are not billionaires , we invest what we have, so we need this apartment, a normal job will not be taken away from us, absolutely no compensation was paid. and if you are an ideologically motivated person, if you look at the second one, god tells us that's why i said that now there are ideas that we have regarding the return of our fugitives from the war. i don't like the word refugees because refugees are a certain, clearly defined legal status of our fugitives from the war that return to ukraine, we can use the israeli experience, we cannot. there, the situation was completely different

. well, people went to israel, as you know. existence is a people with a great trauma of the holocaust, he fled from those countries with which he was tied to israel, and ukrainians are in countries where they feel safe , jews did not feel safe in these countries even after the war, this is true, that's how it is i mentioned it only to emphasize once again that we cannot mechanically borrow anyone's experience. well, it doesn't work out that way. well, now i'm not even talking about the return of people from abroad. i'm talking about those people who can live in the territories of the conditional market and this is so we will return western ukraine, we have to ask them the question where do you want to return to mariupol or to kyiv or bucha let's do a practical restoration i

was there about three weeks ago practically everything has already been rebuilt and bucha irpin moshtyun completely none, but these two well, more or less, you think people will be psychological, some kind of brake already , yes. my grandmother, what knees is a kyivan who returned to kyiv after the second world war, a moment during that after, it seems to me, never in the next four decades was in the area of ​​babi yar, they they visited it because her sister died there with a baby as well as a husband, and she lived in kyiv and somehow all her other relatives went, well, they didn't have it personally, and that's why it's also i don't know , you can't compare eh mentality of the soviets

people and modern people. when my grandmother returned to kyiv, she returned in 1944 because she was in the army from here, she and her two children lived in the entrance hall, the apartment was broken into and she just lives in the entrance hall of her younger brother's apartment and was hiding from the police which was not there, her neighbors let her wash and cook soup for the children and she lived there, do you think and can you imagine that now someone will live like this, i don't think so, that 's what we're talking about, that's why when we talk about we have more people, i 'll say people, then people were given housing fund in in the western regions, chernivtsi was empty, people with themselves wanted to live here and not go there, well, a conditional violation so as not to be in this street, because we are my oldest business, my grandmother, she went to see the manager, well, she went to chernivtsi, and there they offered apartments and everything, and she lived in chernivtsi, but there were not many such people

, the majority of people returned to their previous places of residence , now i am not sure what will happen, we have to ask people , when we talk about the reconstruction of the cities of the destroyed cities, we have to focus on that. and who wants to return there, i don't know will the people of mariupol want to return to mariupol, seeing all this, they may want to live. perhaps, but that is also a legal problem , so find out that you are a resident of mariupol, your house was destroyed in mariupol, it was vacated, and there is some other housing stock built by russians and in which you do not have... it is legally resolved, they decided to resolve it with alfa bank, this is just not the case, i don't see a problem here, the worse issue will be with crimea, people who left crimea to replace those who

will now be forced to leave again, other people, what to do with the same as far as i i understand the nationalization of the housing fund of the citizens of ukraine. that's what i'm talking about. so what to do with it. it's another question because people can live there. it's one thing to come to an empty house that was built there by russians, whoever, and another matter to come to their house in which they live. now the people are ok stolen, i think that after the victory we will get a very old population there because the young will most likely leave, the older people will stay because they have nowhere to go they have a house here or an apartment or something else and they will stay and vote for the party of peace so that you don't doubt that we should hold elections there. well, by the way, many people believe that we will be able not to hold elections there, that people will not

have voting rights. i want to look at it. don't forget that in the 25th year, how many freedom charters are there? yes, we are too, well, there are many who operates the ideas that there are baltic examples passports of non-citizens treaty a transition period can be a transition period can but i don't quite understand how to do it how do you separate those people who sincerely support ukraine living now in the occupied territories not all could leave if you want to know my position in general against such an approach as such, this is a stalinist approach. have you been to the occupied territories and your relatives immediately turn the country into a monster because the baltic countries simply recovered in the 1940s and they did not separate anyone if you were even just a came to latvia after the 1940s and did not have a passport, and the relatives we have had

to undergo notarization. russians were not given citizenship, this is not true, they gave citizenship to everyone who passed neutralization until the 40th year. and who passed the address and no one looked at the national one, of course if you are latvian and did not have citizenship, you and your native language is latvian , it is easier for you to pass it than if you are russians, it is clear, but the approach was to my passport by nationality, that is why i say that we will have a lot of trouble in those territories, even in those territories that were occupied in the 22nd year, but i am just afraid to think that we will have there i repeat once again that it will be more difficult in donbas than directly and don't think that we are not very optimistic from the point of view of people who are watching us optimistic talk about what i can do well let's shout yes glory to ukraine well glory no well maybe we need to find someone to

finish our conversations, some kind of strategy, an optimistic strategy, the victory of ukraine is absolutely inevitable in this belief, in what form, in the fact that the ukrainian will survive as a state, this is a fact, yes, i absolutely agree with this, but you cannot name the time of victory and borders, you cannot, i cannot and of the population or the seat of the population if we talk about the borders of 1991, then my dream now is somewhere around 37 with a tail of millions not too optimistic 1991 of 1991 yes, with crimea and donbas, my dream is that we have 30 of these borders 30 million yes this is transformation ukraine from conditional poland to conditional czechoslovakia yes, no, not so harsh in poland 38 million ay-ay-ay 38 million so much more well, i

have czechoslovakia yes, i didn’t say slovakia, well, with which country can it be compared to poland, that is, it will be just another poland alone is only poor and only poor and god forbid that we should be as motivated as the poles, everyone is motivated by the economy of the nation from state governance, the war contributes to this state's motivations yes, the truth is, we have never had the kind of unity of society that we have today, i can also motivate the poles in the miracle on the donkey and what happened to them on the 39th year they lost the state, then it is clear what it is without again without a state , most likely and fortunately we have not yet lost and we have not lost i hope that we will not lose and

if we talk about optimism, you know god bless we need to preserve the degree of unity that we have today to avoid divisions, society will be divided, it's not scary, it's normal, we're not the same, i'm not the same, and there's nothing wrong with that. but to avoid division, thank you for this conversation , i congratulate you, dear tv viewers, in this episode , i will tell you the last detail of the plane wreckage that happened in zhytomyr oblast and as a result of which three pilots were killed, starting with such vitaliy, a road accident occurred with the participation of ukrainians, 15